Newcastle bid £15m for Trafford

[bumba]

I'm forgotten what kind of player Lyle is, he disappeared in November. One to ship out this summer if we can, although I suspect this is very unlikely. We saw in his first 6 months that he won't get the chance to play off the CB shoulder in the Championship and he certainly can't link the play well, he just gets in the way. He's been a massive disappointment on the whole. A 10 game purple patch at the start of last season doesn't paper over the cracks.

We can't write him off just yet he may be a completely different player in a new system and style, there's definitely something about him

[jlup1980]

We can't write him off just yet he may be a completely different player in a new system and style, there's definitely something about him

He's an enigma that's for sure. I don't want to write him off but I also don't think we can build a team around him. His most effective games have been when he's busted a gut, worked the channels and forced errors. He did that for about 10 games. The rest of the time he's ambled around the pitch looking vaguely interested. I suspect if I look back on my ratings for him over the season they're at varying extremes; either a 9 or a 4. You can't have that at any level. We need a striker we can rely on to at least be a 7 out of 10 every week. If he stays, he's back-up to a new striker for me.

[Eyesofblue2]

A great manager maximises what talent he has at his/her disposal and creates a system/gameplan/tactics to maximise the collective.

Any possibility you could have a word with Gareth CC, although I expect it's too late now.

[pureclaret]

Just see a post saying 20% of 'profit', so that reduces the sum.

I presume you mean just seen a post!
I still have seen to many things making it appear as though its 20% of any future sale not profit.!

I am sure you all have valid points on which goal keeper you prefer and which or even both were to be sold, for me both are good keepers and id like to keep both.
But I keep thinking that the most important thing for Burnley is that any sale of Trafford must be for profit for us and it may well be above my pay grade to know about the 20% but it is doing my head in that we could have bought him for £12m sell him for £15 m and then owe City £3m giving us £1m profit , but if we paid £15m and sell him for £15 and then give City £3m we are well out of profit . Please please can someone put me out of my misery by either giving me the correct solution or shooting me which ever is easier !!!!

[Rileybobs]

I presume you mean just seen a post!
I still have seen to many things making it appear as though its 20% of any future sale not profit.!

I am sure you all have valid points on which goal keeper you prefer and which or even both were to be sold, for me both are good keepers and id like to keep both.
But I keep thinking that the most important thing for Burnley is that any sale of Trafford must be for profit for us and it may well be above my pay grade to know about the 20% but it is doing my head in that we could have bought him for £12m sell him for £15 m and then owe City £3m giving us £1m profit , but if we paid £15m and sell him for £15 and then give City £3m we are well out of profit . Please please can someone put me out of my misery by either giving me the correct solution or shooting me which ever is easier !!!!

You've answered your own question.

[daveisaclaret]

I presume you mean just seen a post!
I still have seen to many things making it appear as though its 20% of any future sale not profit.!

I am sure you all have valid points on which goal keeper you prefer and which or even both were to be sold, for me both are good keepers and id like to keep both.
But I keep thinking that the most important thing for Burnley is that any sale of Trafford must be for profit for us and it may well be above my pay grade to know about the 20% but it is doing my head in that we could have bought him for £12m sell him for £15 m and then owe City £3m giving us £1m profit , but if we paid £15m and sell him for £15 and then give City £3m we are well out of profit . Please please can someone put me out of my misery by either giving me the correct solution or shooting me which ever is easier !!!!

It seems really likely any sell on % will be out of the profit. I believe that's typical.

Personally I choose to believe Pace learned a lesson about agreeing to transfers that are bad for the club after the Weghorst agreement went so wrong.

[The Shire Claret]

I presume you mean just seen a post!
I still have seen to many things making it appear as though its 20% of any future sale not profit.!

I am sure you all have valid points on which goal keeper you prefer and which or even both were to be sold, for me both are good keepers and id like to keep both.
But I keep thinking that the most important thing for Burnley is that any sale of Trafford must be for profit for us and it may well be above my pay grade to know about the 20% but it is doing my head in that we could have bought him for £12m sell him for £15 m and then owe City £3m giving us £1m profit , but if we paid £15m and sell him for £15 and then give City £3m we are well out of profit . Please please can someone put me out of my misery by either giving me the correct solution or shooting me which ever is easier !!!!

Can Newcastle pay the difference as part of the deal ?

[JarrowClaret]

Isn’t it funny perceptions. Outside of this club Muric is looked at as a bit of a clown, yet he is worshiped on here.

Trafford is highly rated everywhere apart from here by the looks of it.

The reality is Trafford is a much better keeper and will have a much more successful career.

Perceptions are funny indeed, I have had nobody tell me that they think Muric is a Clown in fact when he came on all anyone would say about him is how good he is whilst laughing about the 2 mistakes. Not many rated Trafford highly either although the majority could see he has potential to be a fantastic keeper.

In my opinion the reality of it is that Currently there isn’t much between them. I think Trafford positionally is excellent so he makes a lot of his saves look easier than they are but he didn’t seem to make many saves that you wouldn’t have expected any keeper to make, doesn’t/ didn’t command his area very well and his distribution whilst good at times was often very laboured (some of that is due to other players movement). Muric can be erratic, he also makes some helluva mistakes and positionally not as good as Trafford but can make excellent saves that you wouldn’t necessarily expect him to make his distribution is 9/10 on pint as well.

All in all currently I prefer Muric as a keeper but 100% Trafford will end up having the best career. Having said all that in the Championship if it was possible I would prefer to keep Trafford as I think he will have learned a lot from last season and would benefit hugely from a season in the Championship and assuming we went up I think he would be great in the prem the next time.

[beeholeclaret]

Lyle Foster is the kind of player that likes to play off centre backs shoulders. With a 3 man midfield and two quick wingers along with Foster you have the perfect team for counter attacking.

With actually happened is we played a high defensive line congested the space for the pacy wingers and for Foster and left big gaps in transition for PL quality to players to run into...!

Teams just came and sat in for 20 minutes and waited for the inevitable to happen.

I think Ive got to agree with this. My view for much of our Premier League season.

[pureclaret]

You've answered your own question.

Not sure I have , as I want to know what is the factual 20% of what? is it the total as Ive seen? or is it the profit that is normal, but given hes supposed to be so highly rated did City make it difficult for us to turn a quick profit .?

[Rileybobs]

Not sure I have , as I want to know what is the factual 20% of what? is it the total as Ive seen? or is it the profit that is normal, but given hes supposed to be so highly rated did City make it difficult for us to turn a quick profit .?

Well like you said, if we sold him for £15m and the sell on clause was 20% of the total fee to City we’d lose out overall on the deal, which is why any sell on commission to City is almost certainly a percentage of the ‘profit’ made on the sale.

[Hanoverusaclaret]

I'm forgotten what kind of player Lyle is, he disappeared in November. One to ship out this summer if we can, although I suspect this is very unlikely. We saw in his first 6 months that he won't get the chance to play off the CB shoulder in the Championship and he certainly can't link the play well, he just gets in the way. He's been a massive disappointment on the whole. A 10 game purple patch at the start of last season doesn't paper over the cracks.

Appalling take. Foster was a far superior player at the start of this season than last. If he can rediscover that form, he will be far too good for the Championship, and I could see him having a season similar to Chuba Akpom did at Middlesbro the year before.
Yes, we need another forward. Jay is going to be off the bench and Foster's health issues could resurface. Having a third goal scorer is essential. But let's not gauge Foster on his worst days in the Prem. If we did that the majority of the team wouldn't be up to it and we know better than that.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Not sure I have , as I want to know what is the factual 20% of what? is it the total as Ive seen? or is it the profit that is normal, but given hes supposed to be so highly rated did City make it difficult for us to turn a quick profit .?

20% of anything over what we paid for him
That’s how they’re always done

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I don't think nationality comes into the homegrown debate.

Its dependant on how many years you have come through a club under a certain age?
For example, Fabregas was always classed as homegrown.

We also need a certain amount of homegrown players in the Championship squad next season and Muric is classed as one of them.

Fabregas was classed as homegrown because the rules were stupid and he joined Arsenal when the rules stated a player had to be at a club between the ages of 15-21 to qualify
It was a stupid rule then and it’s stupid now

However, since Brexit, English clubs can’t sign u18’s from abroad , so they’d have to be at a club from 18-21 to qualify as homegrown, like Saliba at Arsenal does

[pureclaret]

20% of anything over what we paid for him
That’s how they’re always done

That's what I thought too, but I've heard that there are now clauses to stop the buying of a player for profit making on young players that are sold by a parent club for less than the players worth to get them off the books so as they can bring in new players and the new club selling on for an amount less than the parent club value but the new club pocket profit.

[randomclaret2]

20% of anything over what we paid for him
That’s how they’re always done

That would normally be the way of things certainly but not always, and any such clauses will be what the clubs involved agree .

[jlup1980]

Appalling take. Foster was a far superior player at the start of this season than last. If he can rediscover that form, he will be far too good for the Championship, and I could see him having a season similar to Chuba Akpom did at Middlesbro the year before.
Yes, we need another forward. Jay is going to be off the bench and Foster's health issues could resurface. Having a third goal scorer is essential. But let's not gauge Foster on his worst days in the Prem. If we did that the majority of the team wouldn't be up to it and we know better than that.

The majority of the team have shown a hell of a lot more than Lyle.

He was awful from January to May in the Championship and showed very little. He was just settling in though so we gave him a pass. He was brilliant for 8-10 games at the start of the PL season. A real handful, someone who actually got you excited. I genuinely thought VK had found a proper player. However, since then he's been diabolical.

Clearly his mental health issues need to be taken into account, but this only adds to my opinion that we can't look to him to lead the line for us. He's too inconsistent and doesn't have the all round game we will need in the Championship. He looked strong when he had space to run into, defenders to close down. That's his game, he won't get that opportunity very often in the Championship as I expect we'll be playing a really high line like we were under VK.

8-10 games decent games in 18 months and we have some fans thinking he'll rip up the Championship. I suspect they need to take the blinkers off.

[Colburn_Claret]

On the subject of Lyle, at times at the start of last season he looked our only premier league quality player. The only one who could win the ball back. The only one who had the strength, and nous, to hold off an opponent while protecting the ball and looking for a team mate. He also had the pace.
With those assets he's ideally suited as a target man, with someone playing off him ala a Danny Ings type.
He isn't a lone striker, and why anyone would stick him on the wing only God and VK know.
You have to play to a players strengths, and in the right set up Foster would be a beast.

[ClaretAL]

For me I think Lyle still has issues he needs to concentrate on rather than football. It was becoming visibly more frequent in games towards the end of the season that it was affecting him during games. A 100% Lyle would storm the league and hold his own in the championship, so hopefully he gets the help he needs.That said his international coach and VK obviously think differently and they would have the professional information at hand, so maybe he is already at 100%

[GodIsADeeJay81]

That would normally be the way of things certainly but not always, and any such clauses will be what the clubs involved agree .

I’m not sure we’d agree a clause of 20% of any sales fee

If we sold him for £10 million, we’d end up with £8 million and we’d potentially already paid more than that for him

Might as well shut up shop at that point if that’s how we’re going to do business

[BigGaz]

Perceptions are funny indeed, I have had nobody tell me that they think Muric is a Clown in fact when he came on all anyone would say about him is how good he is whilst laughing about the 2 mistakes. Not many rated Trafford highly either although the majority could see he has potential to be a fantastic keeper.

In my opinion the reality of it is that Currently there isn’t much between them. I think Trafford positionally is excellent so he makes a lot of his saves look easier than they are but he didn’t seem to make many saves that you wouldn’t have expected any keeper to make, doesn’t/ didn’t command his area very well and his distribution whilst good at times was often very laboured (some of that is due to other players movement). Muric can be erratic, he also makes some helluva mistakes and positionally not as good as Trafford but can make excellent saves that you wouldn’t necessarily expect him to make his distribution is 9/10 on pint as well.

All in all currently I prefer Muric as a keeper but 100% Trafford will end up having the best career. Having said all that in the Championship if it was possible I would prefer to keep Trafford as I think he will have learned a lot from last season and would benefit hugely from a season in the Championship and assuming we went up I think he would be great in the prem the next time.

I like this and I'd go further to say for quite a number of our players, the PL was too much too soon.

There aren't many of them that I'd say are completely hopeless, just young, naive and caught out by the quality.

[deanothedino]

Erratic isn’t the term to use for a player making a mistake, it’s completely different, it’s an error but that doesn’t make him erratic

If anything Trafford was far more erratic coming out trying to catch the ball in the 96th minute at home to Luton.

I'd say he was pretty inconsistent and unpredictable, so yeah - erratic is the term to use for Muric.

[123EasyasBFC]

I'd say he was pretty inconsistent and unpredictable, so yeah - erratic is the term to use for Muric.

You missing the point, a player making a mistake doesn’t make me erratic neither does being inconsistent and unpredictable

[mdd2]

BBC say Newcastle have put in a second offer

[AGENT_CLARET]

BBC say Newcastle have put in a second offer

I hope it's at least 25m and a good sell on fee

[Leisure]

On the subject of Lyle, at times at the start of last season he looked our only premier league quality player. The only one who could win the ball back. The only one who had the strength, and nous, to hold off an opponent while protecting the ball and looking for a team mate. He also had the pace.
With those assets he's ideally suited as a target man, with someone playing off him ala a Danny Ings type.
He isn't a lone striker, and why anyone would stick him on the wing only God and VK know.
You have to play to a players strengths, and in the right set up Foster would be a beast.

Did VK ever explain just why he decided to play him out wide?

[mdd2]

BBC say Newcastle have put in a second offer

Can’t find it now on Bbc

[NewClaret]

I hope it's at least 25m and a good sell on fee

Here here

[Goliath]

Did VK ever explain just why he decided to play him out wide?

He said it was our 'perception'. We all imagined he was out wide, he was actually playing where he had always played apparently.

[Leisure]

He said it was our 'perception'. We all imagined he was out wide, he was actually playing where he had always played apparently.

Really! Well that's just bo**ocks!

[golden days]

Did VK ever explain just why he decided to play him out wide?

Was it not to accommodate Fofanna?

[Leisure]

Was it not to accommodate Fofanna?

No idea but it certainly didn't work.

[FCBurnley]

Has he left the building yet ?

[golden days]

No idea but it certainly didn't work.

It certainly didn't, but that's what I read at the time.

[bfcjg]

One of the numerous bizarre decisions made by VK. If Harry Kane thought Roy Hodgson's ludicrous idea that he should take corners would be the worst tactical masterclass he had to endure, just wait whilst Kompany gets stuck in.

[deanothedino]

You missing the point, a player making a mistake doesn’t make me erratic neither does being inconsistent and unpredictable

I’m not missing the point, I just don’t share your opinion

“Make me” I’m taking about Muric, not you. You're the opposite of erratic, incredibly consistent at defending your favourite player.

He made numerous mistakes, that cost us points because he is erratic. Making the mistakes isn’t why he is erratic and the mistake wasn’t why I was calling him erratic.

[bfcjg]

The problem for keepers at Burnley was following Heaton and Pope. Two sublime keepers who we were privileged to have and because they are still fresh in the memory you just have to compare.

[KRBFC]

We can't write him off just yet he may be a completely different player in a new system and style, there's definitely something about him

But we can write Amdouni, Trafford and others off after a few months….. got it

[bumba]

But we can write Amdouni, Trafford and others off after a few months….. got it

The issue with Trafford has always been that he isn't ready, you can try and argue about it all you want but he definitely wasn't ready and I don't think he would be ready to be Burnley's number 1 for another couple of years.
I hope Amdouni stays and gains confidence in the championship he's another I wouldn't write off in a new system.
These players failed because of how they was used by your main man VK

[123EasyasBFC]

I’m not missing the point, I just don’t share your opinion

“Make me” I’m taking about Muric, not you. You're the opposite of erratic, incredibly consistent at defending your favourite player.

He made numerous mistakes, that cost us points because he is erratic. Making the mistakes isn’t why he is erratic and the mistake wasn’t why I was calling him erratic.

I was originally replying to the poster who said the ball rolling under his foot was an example of him being erratic which simply isn’t true.

Muric far more calm than Trafford. This last season the most erratic moment from one of our keepers came came from Trafford in the 96th minute at home to Luton

[deanothedino]

I was originally replying to the poster who said the ball rolling under his foot was an example of him being erratic which simply isn’t true.

Muric far more calm than Trafford. This last season the most erratic moment from one of our keepers came came from Trafford in the 96th minute at home to Luton

I’d say it came when Muric punted it straight at Calvert-Lewin.

Trafford did make that error against Luton, however 99 times out of 100 that’s a foul against the keeper in the modern game.

How much does Muric pay for your unwavering loyalty on here?

[123EasyasBFC]

I’d say it came when Muric punted it straight at Calvert-Lewin.

Trafford did make that error against Luton, however 99 times out of 100 that’s a foul against the keeper in the modern game.

How much does Muric pay for your unwavering loyalty on here?

The mistakes Muric made against Everton and Brighton are absolute shockers no denying that but I don’t think in any way that makes him erratic.

You’re right it should be a foul but it’s still erratic to come and claim for the ball at that moment.

‘How much does muric pay’ come on let’s not be childish, you don’t have to agree but comments like that are poor

[Newcastleclaret93]

The mistakes Muric made against Everton and Brighton are absolute shockers no denying that but I don’t think in any way that makes him erratic.

You’re right it should be a foul but it’s still erratic to come and claim for the ball at that moment.

‘How much does muric pay’ come on let’s not be childish, you don’t have to agree but comments like that are poor

It’s erratic to come for a ball he should be claiming? And got fouled.

But it’s not erratic smashing pass straight in Calvert Lewin when he had days to do other stuff with it.

The bias on this topic is just nothing short of embarrassing

[123EasyasBFC]

It’s erratic to come for a ball he should be claiming? And got fouled.

But it’s not erratic smashing pass straight in Calvert Lewin when he had days to do other stuff with it.

The bias on this topic is just nothing short of embarrassing

It’s far more erratic to come for a ball that he never had any chance of catching with 3 cbs and 2 strikers in his way, when had he stayed on his line then nothing would have come to the cross.

The mistake against Everton isn’t erratic he tried to play a pass to Odobert through the line and it didn’t work, something he’s asked to do every game, it was a poor decision with the time left in the half but it’s not erratic.

You wouldn’t call every ball playing cb who tries to play out from the back and passes straight to the opposition player erratic.

Your opinion is irrelevant you change your mind daily on players and try to claim facts that aren’t true

[Newcastleclaret93]

It’s far more erratic to come for a ball that he never had any chance of catching with 3 cbs and 2 strikers in his way, when had he stayed on his line then nothing would have come to the cross.

The mistake against Everton isn’t erratic he tried to play a pass to Odobert through the line and it didn’t work, something he’s asked to do every game, it was a poor decision with the time left in the half but it’s not erratic.

You wouldn’t call every ball playing cb who tries to play out from the back and passes straight to the opposition player erratic.

Your opinion is irrelevant you change your mind daily on players and try to claim facts that aren’t true

You should be a politician

[123EasyasBFC]

You should be a politician

You can’t think Trafford should have come out and tried to claim the ball at home the Luton the literal definition of erratic, what about coming and and being in no man’s land for Fulham’s second at home?

You ask any fans of championship clubs next season who they would rather face in goals when playing us they would much rather come up against Trafford than muric

When Trafford gets sold and we have muric will you finally back him or stay quiet till you can come on here have another moan?

[golden days]

You can’t think Trafford should have come out and tried to claim the ball at home the Luton the literal definition of erratic, what about coming and and being in no man’s land for Fulham’s second at home?

You ask any fans of championship clubs next season who they would rather face in goals when playing us they would much rather come up against Trafford than muric

When Trafford gets sold and we have muric will you finally back him or stay quiet till you can come on here have another moan?

I'll back Muric if he's the one left, but a repeat of his two glaring errors, that an 11yr old wouldn't make, then that support will be severely tested

[123EasyasBFC]

I'll back Muric if he's the one left, but a repeat of his two glaring errors, that an 11yr old wouldn't make, then that support will be severely tested

There’s a difference when you can call out the mistakes for what they are but also see what impact someone also makes to the team.

Something some posters fail to do

[Jamesy]

There’s a difference when you can call out the mistakes for what they are but also see what impact someone also makes to the team.

Something some posters fail to do

Just accept there is an agenda on here and you are wasting your time trying to engage in a rational debate with them.

[Jakubclaret]

Just accept there is an agenda on here and you are wasting your time trying to engage in a rational debate with them.

As an observation with the time consumed on the T word you seem to be doing an exemplary job on the thing you are advising against & not just on this thread alone.