Trouble at Everton home game

[Bosscat]

You are all getting confused. If the defendant doesn't oppose it, the order will get made. He must not of opposed it.

Bet the judge loves your mangled English when summing up

[lakedistrictclaret]

You are all getting confused. If the defendant doesn't oppose it, the order will get made. He must not of opposed it.

Not quite. He may have opposed it, but was unsuccessful.

It's difficult to avoid a banning order if you're convicted of an football related offence. I once represented a Carlisle fan in opposing a banning order when all he did was run onto the pitch for a few seconds after Carlisle got a last minute equaliser at Hartlepool. The district judge made the banning order, which was upheld when we appealed to the Crown Court.

[ClaretTony]

That’s what I thought

So not the a season ticket holder in the “family stand” as stated in the article

Actually even headlined in the article too. Do we even have a family stand now though?

[Leisure]

You are all getting confused. If the defendant doesn't oppose it, the order will get made. He must not of opposed it.

Would he have been told that he could oppose it?

[lakedistrictclaret]

Would he have been told that he could oppose it?

I note that he was represented by a solicitor, who must surely have advised him that he could argue against a banning order.

[depechedingle]

I think your understanding is spot on Leisure. They were putting the overflow into the Longside upper. Haven’t they moved season ticket holders out of their seats now to accommodate them in the Jimmy Mac lower?

That is 100% true Tony, the three rows that sit directly behind me have lost their seats too accommodate corporate fans in the Jimmy Mc Lower. This means that I will on occasion sit with opposition fans directly behind me and the wife. If the majority can be reasonable and behave as expected then that's OK, the minority like the Everton fans concerned.

More disappointing though that the football family who have sat around me have all been separated now, with no warning until April that they couldn't renew their own seats.

[ClaretTony]

That is 100% true Tony, the three rows that sit directly behind me have lost their seats too accommodate corporate fans in the Jimmy Mc Lower. This means that I will on occasion sit with opposition fans directly behind me and the wife. If the majority can be reasonable and behave as expected then that's OK, the minority like the Everton fans concerned.

More disappointing though that the football family who have sat around me have all been separated now, with no warning until April that they couldn't renew their own seats.

That last sentence sums up another issue for me too. I’ve sat in the same seat now since 1996. I didn’t know a lot of the people around before then, particularly those behind me. It’s the same people 28 years on and it would be awful if we were now split up.

[HahaYeah]

wrong thread...

[Burnley Ace]

You are all getting confused. If the defendant doesn't oppose it, the order will get made. He must not of opposed it.

You don’t know that.

[BurnleyFC]

I note that he was represented by a solicitor, who must surely have advised him that he could argue against a banning order.

After last season, he might be quite relieved to have received a banning order!

[pushpinpussy]

You don’t know that.

Trust me i know. I do this every day of the week.

[pushpinpussy]

I note that he was represented by a solicitor, who must surely have advised him that he could argue against a banning order.

Or he advised him he had no chance of winning. I know Mr Lawson and he is a very good solicitor. The advice he would have given would have been the best advice.

[Burnley Ace]

Trust me i know. I do this every day of the week.

Perhaps you should take that up with David Lawson at DRN and ask why a defendant with a unblemished history of 25 years as a season ticket holder, with no previous convictions and entered a guilty plea in these circumstances agreed to a football banning order!

[Burnley Ace]

Not quite. He may have opposed it, but was unsuccessful.

It's difficult to avoid a banning order if you're convicted of an football related offence. I once represented a Carlisle fan in opposing a banning order when all he did was run onto the pitch for a few seconds after Carlisle got a last minute equaliser at Hartlepool. The district judge made the banning order, which was upheld when we appealed to the Crown Court.

I once represented a Newcastle fan who, as he was walking to Ewood, had to step into the road. An unmarked police car “beeped him” and he slapped the roof as it went by and shouted “f off”. Told the Mags it would be sour grapes to give him an FBO and they agreed.

[pushpinpussy]

Perhaps you should take that up with David Lawson at DRN and ask why a defendant with a unblemished history of 25 years as a season ticket holder, with no previous convictions and entered a guilty plea in these circumstances agreed to a football banning order!

No i wouldn't take that up with Mr Lawson. It would be very unprofessional. I trust that as he would know the case inside out then he would have given the most appropriate advice.

[pushpinpussy]

Perhaps you should take that up with David Lawson at DRN and ask why a defendant with a unblemished history of 25 years as a season ticket holder, with no previous convictions and entered a guilty plea in these circumstances agreed to a football banning order!

I understand from your posts you might be from a downtrodden background but stop why you are behind please. This could get embarrassing.

[Bosscat]

I understand from your posts you might be from a downtrodden background but stop why you are behind please. This could get embarrassing.

Yet again you are being a complete @&#£ to a poster and disparaging about a background you know nothing about ... you are embarrassing ... and that is why people pick on you. Along with your very poor grasp of basic English

[Les Lawrence]

Probably was offered a lesser charge if he accepted he would get a banning order.

[ClaretPete001]

That is an absolute disgrace. What an awful and heavy handed way to treat a ST holder of 25 years.

Probably four loyal fans lost there due to an issue of the clubs own making.

If the club can’t keep Everton fans out of the home ends, or eject them swiftly when they creep in, they certainly shouldn’t be prosecuting fans when trouble breaks out like this. Awful way to treat fans.

Feel for this guy.

Totally agree. It could happen to any one of us....! The man has never had a conviction was where he was supposed to be and was not an aggressor.

Utterly silly posturing nonsense from a magistrate.

[AfloatinClaret]

Bet the judge loves your mangled English when summing up

Or mebee that's wot them professional fellas calls legalese?

[Burnley Ace]

No i wouldn't take that up with Mr Lawson. It would be very unprofessional. I trust that as he would know the case inside out then he would have given the most appropriate advice.

Don’t worry, when I see him at Court next week I’ll ask him . Oh and that’s not the sort of language I expect you to use when addressing a mor senior lawyer. ( you don’t think you’re the only lawyer that posts on here?)

[Jamesy]

Yet again you are being a complete @&#£ to a poster and disparaging about a background you know nothing about ... you are embarrassing ... and that is why people pick on you. Along with your very poor grasp of basic English

I have got to agree with you. The more I read of his posts I think that if he is really in the legal profession then I must be a Boeing 777 pilot.

[Bosscat]

I have got to agree with you. The more I read of his posts I think that if he is really in the legal profession then I must be a Boeing 777 pilot.

[ClaretPete001]

Don’t worry, when I see him at Court next week I’ll ask him . Oh and that’s not the sort of language I expect you to use when addressing a mor senior lawyer. ( you don’t think you’re the only lawyer that posts on here?)

If he claims to be a lawyer: and is one; he'll probably be disbarred for being too honest in a public forum.

[Clive 1960]

Or he advised him he had no chance of winning. I know Mr Lawson and he is a very good solicitor. The advice he would have given would have been the best advice.

David is a good solicitor and a decent guy who also supports the Clarets so the advice he would have given is client must have been good advice or he would have told him otherwise...

[Rodleydave]

Memories of that Everton day remain vivid because of the effect on Mrs T and daughter Victoria who were two of many who fled downstairs to escape the mayhem. The placing of these fans in the Upper JH by the club was utterly fatuous. For one Burnley guy to be singled out and banned is appalling. Also unlucky. The Everton fans were given a clout or a kick on their way out by several Burnley fans angry at what they were having to put up with. Angry that women and children were having to flee. I am angry to this day at being told by Pace that the club would understand if I no longer wished to attend games. An SLO told me these words came direct from him after I sent a graphic description of the chaos and the effect on families.

Question, how will Ticketmaster prevent more scenes like this. Has the club thought this one out?

[Leisure]

Memories of that Everton day remain vivid because of the effect on Mrs T and daughter Victoria who were two of many who fled downstairs to escape the mayhem. The placing of these fans in the Upper JH by the club was utterly fatuous. For one Burnley guy to be singled out and banned is appalling. Also unlucky. The Everton fans were given a clout or a kick on their way out by several Burnley fans angry at what they were having to put up with. Angry that women and children were having to flee. I am angry to this day at being told by Pace that the club would understand if I no longer wished to attend games. An SLO told me these words came direct from him after I sent a graphic description of the chaos and the effect on families.

Question, how will Ticketmaster prevent more scenes like this. Has the club thought this one out?

Ticketmaster won't be selling tickets, our TO will.

[Spike]

It wasn’t just this incident most people know someone who was effected at some stage during the season by the club selling tickets to away fans in home seats.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Memories of that Everton day remain vivid because of the effect on Mrs T and daughter Victoria who were two of many who fled downstairs to escape the mayhem. The placing of these fans in the Upper JH by the club was utterly fatuous. For one Burnley guy to be singled out and banned is appalling. Also unlucky. The Everton fans were given a clout or a kick on their way out by several Burnley fans angry at what they were having to put up with. Angry that women and children were having to flee. I am angry to this day at being told by Pace that the club would understand if I no longer wished to attend games. An SLO told me these words came direct from him after I sent a graphic description of the chaos and the effect on families.

Question, how will Ticketmaster prevent more scenes like this. Has the club thought this one out?

To be Devil's Advocate, the club seemingly have sought to address it by zoning more of the JML seats for the corporate away fans.

Admittedly this is shite for the clarets moved to make this space available. I'm not justifying their actions however to say the club have done nothing isn't quite right is it?

One idea could be potentially to make JML the away stand, and give the full CFS to Home fans.

[Quicknick]

The JML is too big to be the away stand, surely.

[ŽižkovClaret]

The JML is too big to be the away stand, surely.

I'd thought the non-corporate part would be around the same as the current away section of the CFS?

[Quicknick]

I'd thought the non-corporate part would be around the same as the current away section of the CFS?

Fair point. They'd sound louder on TV, though.

[ClaretTony]

I am angry to this day at being told by Pace that the club would understand if I no longer wished to attend games. An SLO told me these words came direct from him after I sent a graphic description of the chaos and the effect on families.

Appalling response to a long term, genuine supporter expressing concerns.

[wilks_bfc]

To be Devil's Advocate, the club seemingly have sought to address it by zoning more of the JML seats for the corporate away fans.

Admittedly this is shite for the clarets moved to make this space available. I'm not justifying their actions however to say the club have done nothing isn't quite right is it?

One idea could be potentially to make JML the away stand, and give the full CFS to Home fans.

They won’t move the away supporters to the JML as it’ll be more difficult to control entry/exit from there.

[ksrclaret]

The way our club is being run is an absolute disgrace sometimes. They are incompetent at the operational basics and arrogantly dismissive of concerns.

[ClaretTony]

They won’t move the away supporters to the JML as it’ll be more difficult to control entry/exit from there.

Totally agree with that. So much easier to get the coaches and away fans in at the cricket field end.

[SalouClaret]

I understand from your posts you might be from a downtrodden background but stop why you are behind please. This could get embarrassing.

If it isn't the resident pretend solicitor

I'm still waiting for you to "take further action" against me for calling you out on your shite

[ClaretPete001]

Memories of that Everton day remain vivid because of the effect on Mrs T and daughter Victoria who were two of many who fled downstairs to escape the mayhem. The placing of these fans in the Upper JH by the club was utterly fatuous. For one Burnley guy to be singled out and banned is appalling. Also unlucky. The Everton fans were given a clout or a kick on their way out by several Burnley fans angry at what they were having to put up with. Angry that women and children were having to flee. I am angry to this day at being told by Pace that the club would understand if I no longer wished to attend games. An SLO told me these words came direct from him after I sent a graphic description of the chaos and the effect on families.

Question, how will Ticketmaster prevent more scenes like this. Has the club thought this one out?

It's not greatly surprising to be honest, because despite what some say about him on here he was a divisional sales director in a big investment bank before buying the club. Apart from a brief stint at Utah.

I know people seem to equate Wall Street Banking with some kind of uber wonderkind that knows finance and business but it's not the same kind of finance and operational expertise that savvy small local business owners like Mike Garlick has decades of experience at.

It won't give Pace much insight into running a small business or being subjected to the kind of scrutiny and expectation that comes with a community asset from t**ts like us.

I know I am the voice of doom but it's quite a challenge for Pace and his team and it's not surprising at times that it shows....!

[ŽižkovClaret]

They won’t move the away supporters to the JML as it’ll be more difficult to control entry/exit from there.

Unless we follow suit from other clubs and keep away supporters behind

[Targetman]

Unless we follow suit from other clubs and keep away supporters behind

Away supporters don't get kept behind anymore only in exceptional circumstances.

I seem to recall that the police were challenged in court about keeping away fans behind after the game ended, and on the whole this practice has now stopped.

[NL Claret]

Can’t remember the last time I got kept behind as an away fan, possibly Maine Rd in 1998 when there was a baying mob outside.

In most circumstances I thought it was better to be let out at same time as gave less time for the home fans to set up potential ambushes or if you were kept behind it was obvious you were an away fan.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Still a thing here, so i guess i'm mainly thinking of that. Tbf the away fans from certain clubs here can be headcases

[wilks_bfc]

Unless we follow suit from other clubs and keep away supporters behind

It’s not even that (not that many do that these days anyway)

The access turnstiles to the JML are in the centre of the stand, with the “home” turnstiles either side

On top of that you will have home fans accessing the Fanzone and Longside. It wont happen

[ClaretTony]

Unless we follow suit from other clubs and keep away supporters behind

A long, long time since that happened.

[ŽižkovClaret]

It’s not even that (not that many do that these days anyway)

The access turnstiles to the JML are in the centre of the stand, with the “home” turnstiles either side

On top of that you will have home fans accessing the Fanzone and Longside. It wont happen

I guess it would be a huge job, but you could create a new Away entrance through the current club shop footprint, but realistically this would only be worth the outlay if and when they demolish the CFS and build a new home supporters only replacement.

[Herts Clarets]

If and when the CF stand is replaced, couldn't they put away fans in half the lower tier of the JH stand? Bit like they do with away fans at Villa.

[Bosscat]

If and when the CF stand is replaced, couldn't they put away fans in half the lower tier of the JH stand? Bit like they do with away fans at Villa.

Be fun walking up Ormerod Yard after the game don't you think

[ClaretTony]

If and when the CF stand is replaced, couldn't they put away fans in half the lower tier of the JH stand? Bit like they do with away fans at Villa.

The SAG would have a major influence on any such changes. Getting away fans in and out where they are now is undoubtedly the best in terms of managing it. I can’t imagine there would be any over eagerness to change that.

[blatherwickstattoos]

If and when we build an a new cricketfield end, make sure it’s a bigger stand (5-6k capacity) give away fans 1800 and we fill the rest with a standing area so they are outnumbered considerably. Make all lower tiers in Jimmy Mac and longside new cooperate area seats (as they are aiming for more of this anyway)

[Paul Waine]

Guys, just a suggestion; How about aiming for a time when football fans can sit (and stand) together watching the game without any aggression from either set of fans?

I've just read the Accrington Pals/First Day of the Somme thread. If we believe that we won't go to war these days without first making every effort to make peace, don't you think it a great idea to find how we can achieve this with all the people we live alongside, people who enjoy watching the same sports alongside, even if we are fans of "the other" team.