Preston v Burnley - Player Ratings

[BurnleyFC]

Not had a drink all day. It was a good height and wasn’t bang in the corner. Stand less far to the right and he could have caught it.

It was a great freekick, but one of the problems with Hladky is that he is too small and isn’t ‘springy’ enough to be a really good goalkeeper.

He tried to save it by diving almost instantly from his starting position, instead of taking a huge step to his left and then executing the dive.

[CoolClaret]

Traff absolutely saves that - that lateral quickness across his line is what he is genuinely elite at.

[BurnleyFC]

Hladky also managed to actually make himself smaller, not bigger, when attempting to save their second goal from the Montenegrin mauler.

He just kind of collapsed.

[Vino blanco]

From tv
Hladkey 4 no chance with the free kick, but apart from that he’s not very good is he?
Sonne 4 not up to Preston’s physicality, as were most of the team
Worrall 4 a friend of mine over here , a Forestfan, said Worrall was a decent player but too slow and not good enough for the Prem. I think we’re finding out the same goes for the Championship
Esteve 6 God only knows what he thought of what was going on around him
Pires 5 I hope Humphreys is back for the run in
Shelvey 3 for most of the game he played as our only genuine midfielder: the problem he tried to do it at walking pace. I was hoping he might be like he was 4 years ago, he isn’t.
Brownhill 4 I have no clue what role he was playing today, the worst is I don’t think he did or Parker did
Sarmiento 3 I’ve said it before, he could return to his parent club tomorrow and he would not be missed in the slightest
Benny 3 kicked twice early on, after that he didn’t want to know
Koleosho 5 tried hard, but he simply never learns anything about the game
Foster 5 I can’t recall one decent pass to him or chance set up for him. At least he ran about
All subs 4 none of them looked like they wanted to come on

Parker must take the blame for that insane starting line up. We had one midfielder (Shelvey) who only had a few light weight fancy dancers (Koleosho, Sarmiento, Benny) in front of him. Preston came out physically and hard against us in the first fifteen minutes and scared our weaklings to death. I did think that the players who came in would want to impress us with fight and desire, unfortunately there was none whatsoever. I feel sorry for the fans who made the journey over and gave excellent support to the team and got nothing back.

[quoonbeatz]

You're talking rubbish. It's a sensational free kick which we know Brady is capable of. If Trafford was in goal nobody would have said a word.

If you tell me I’m talking rubbish, I know it’s nailed on I’m right. It was a good free kick because it went in, but it was eminently saveable.

Like I said, it was right in front of us, I said before he took it that it was going in exactly where it went because the keeper was too far over.

[IanMcL]

If you tell me I’m talking rubbish, I know it’s nailed on I’m right. It was a good free kick because it went in, but it was eminently saveable.

Like I said, it was right in front of us, I said before he took it that it was going in exactly where it went because the keeper was too far over.

You have a point. I knew where it was going (also behind goal). It wasn't in the corner either.

[ClaretLoup]

I wasn't at the game but after watching the highlights that gave several different angles on replay, the shot swerved up and down and hit top bins and you would have had to be stood almost on the post to save it.

Second goal you might have more of a case, although it was a free shot from close range, but one that was close to the keeper. Saveable, but 50/50.

[Goliath]

If you tell me I’m talking rubbish, I know it’s nailed on I’m right. It was a good free kick because it went in, but it was eminently saveable.

Like I said, it was right in front of us, I said before he took it that it was going in exactly where it went because the keeper was too far over.

The keeper has to protect that side! If it goes in keepers side then he gets slated.

[Silkyskills1]

I agree with quoonbeatz. We were directly behind the free kick too. A quality free kick but saveable with a decent keeper between the sticks. Left himself far too much to do to get across to it. Having said that the defensive wall set up offered no protection at all.

[quoonbeatz]

The keeper has to protect that side! If it goes in keepers side then he gets slated.

He doesn’t. He should stand more centrally.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Hladky 4 - from his seat sat with us in the stands Traff could have got across to save the first. No howlers today unlike R3 & R4

Sonne 3 - really rank and looks a poor signing. A full international so one must assume it is the pace of English football. That one just before the first goal when he attacked, turned back, and then didn’t feed it in left footed to 3 onrushing teammates - scandalous. Probably moves faster when on his catwalk.

Pires 5 - battled, limited but did ok. I am guessing he was switched to the right because Sonne was being torn a new one every minute. Which was incredible and not something I have ever seen.

Worrall 5 - we have been blessed with half a dozen top class CB talents in the last decade, Joe is a good guy but this makes him look really, really limited. He did Ok though to a degree.

Esteve 5 - bullied and an area he needs to improve at for the Premier, whoever he plays for there

Shelvey 3 - looked so far off the pace he shouldn’t have been picked. That he was, in the engine room, despite obvious fitness limits, well, it is close to being a sackable offence because it sacked off the competition

Brownhill 5 - hustled but isn’t a physical player (none of those were allowed today but we lacked it desparately), he is an energetic one and that wasn’t enough next to Jonjo

Sarmiento 5 - an enigma. I see desire, battling, skill, but it is all sporadic. He is at a crucial choice in his career and I feel he will choose mediocrity.

Benson 5 - some good moments but a tricky one on that pitch

Koleosho 6 - probably our best of a bad bunch. Energy (as ever). Some quality. But too much straight line running which isn’t ideal if its a dead end.

Foster 5 - energy and some runs but never really threatened which is his issue

Flemming 6 - slight improvement
Barnes 6 - slight improvement
Laurent 5 - thought he would add grit but didn’t
Edwards 5 - match was gone and he couldn't have done much
Banel 4 - not sure he did anything at all

I put this on the draw thread minutes after we got PNE:

“If Parker plays a weakened side and loses to a local rival in our first ever cup meeting, many fans will call for him to go. If we somehow fail to go up anyway, many won’t forgive him. So I really, really hope he is clever here and does the right thing. Feels important.”

I was right then, sensed what was coming. That was an own goal. Wins feed wins and we chose to sack off the FA Cup with near certain defeat. No win on Tuesday or Saturday now feels likely. A bit like Olympiacos then Fulham. I’ll be glad if I call that wrong.

You just don’t do it. It alienates a large chunk of fans, 5000 of whom went and got badly let down. A game like this on that cabbage patch needed physicality - Laurent, Hannibal and Flemming in particular. Parker knows this. So he sacked it off.

Sack is probably the right word. If promotion, I’ll agree the pragmatism and tactical negativity worked. If we stay down……..he would then be not good enough for Burnley and would have to go before a second attempt. We are not Fulham or Bournemouth. We have won major trophies, the first side Parker has managed who has. We don’t expect to try and win these competitions. We demand it.

[Luppy]

Hladký 3 - Ipswich somehow got promoted with this joker in goal. One of football’s greatest mysteries - he’s crap

Sonne 3 - he’s come in ahead of Sambo in the squad. How bad must the latter be…..?
Worrall 3 - so slow I thought big Joe was back…
Eatève 4 - he was poor, not helped by some shocking performances around him
Pires 4 - Humphreys will hopefully not be out for the season

Brownhill 4 - never in the game.
Shelvey 3 - and some were suggesting he should be starting instead of Laurent…..
Benson 5 - at least made an effort
Sarmiento 3 - the only thing noticeable was the hair
Koleosho 4 - we should have cashed out in the summer

Foster 5* - at least made an effort

Laurent 5 - was too late when he came on
Flemming 4 - brought nothing
Barnes 4 - brought nothing
Edwards 4 - brought nothing
Banel 3 - did he have a kick?

A thread last week was suggesting Laurent should be dropped. What you get doing that is that shambles, admittedly not helped by dropping Cullen as well. Absolutely no physicality in midfield and we were simply bullied out the game. Lord help us if Trafford / Roberts get injured.

Back to the league midweek - hopefully a reaction

[taio]

I agree with quoonbeatz. We were directly behind the free kick too. A quality free kick but saveable with a decent keeper between the sticks. Left himself far too much to do to get across to it. Having said that the defensive wall set up offered no protection at all.

Anybody at the game yesterday could see it coming a mile off. Poor positioning by Hladky which meant that Brady had to focus entirely on getting it over the wall.

[ashtonlongsider]

Totally unacceptable performance. Think the players should have put there alarm clocks on for similar times as us fans did. At lest we turned up.

Hladky 3
Sonne 3
Worrall 3
Esteve 5
Pires 3
Shelvey 3
Brownhill 5
Benson 3
Sarmiento 3
Koleosho 6*
Foster 5

Laurent 4
Barnes 3
Fleming 5
Edwards 3
Banel 3

[Loyalclaret]

I put this on the draw thread minutes after we got PNE:

“If Parker plays a weakened side and loses to a local rival in our first ever cup meeting, many fans will call for him to go. If we somehow fail to go up anyway, many won’t forgive him. So I really, really hope he is clever here and does the right thing. Feels important.”

I was right then, sensed what was coming. That was an own goal. Wins feed wins and we chose to sack off the FA Cup with near certain defeat. No win on Tuesday or Saturday now feels likely. A bit like Olympiacos then Fulham. I’ll be glad if I call that wrong.

You just don’t do it. It alienates a large chunk of fans, 5000 of whom went and got badly let down. A game like this on that cabbage patch needed physicality - Laurent, Hannibal and Flemming in particular. Parker knows this. So he sacked it off.

Sack is probably the right word. If promotion, I’ll agree the pragmatism and tactical negativity worked. If we stay down……..he would then be not good enough for Burnley and would have to go before a second attempt. We are not Fulham or Bournemouth. We have won major trophies, the first side Parker has managed who has. We don’t expect to try and win these competitions. We demand it.

On a board that often reacts badly, you're still the only person I have seen suggesting he should go because we got/get beat by Preston.

[Swizzlestick]

Hladky 4 - nothing about him inspires confidence
Sonne 3 - absolutely nowhere near
Worrall 3 - absolutely nowhere near
Esteve 4 - poor game but surrounded by absolute dross
Pires 4 - sort of tried a bit more than Sonne
Shelvey 3 - remember Masters football on Sky? played at that pace
Brownhill 4 - forgot he was playing
Benson 4 - had a shot
Sarmiento 4 - doesn’t do anything
Koleosho 6 - at least gave the impression he was bothered
Foster 5 - ditto

Subs - can’t be bothered.

Parker 3 - rancid lineup for the opposition and rancid tactics. Leaving Hannibal out was a big error.

You don’t mind losing games of football, but losing games of football in that manner is shocking. Most concerning was the distinct lack of an uplift in urgency after we went behind. Comments in other threads are probably right that if we win Tuesday and Saturday, this will be soon forgotten but it’s a big if. A waste of everybody’s time.

[claretspice]

Really poor yesterday and a cup exit is disappointing (particularly in a derby) but let's keep it in proportion.

Hladcky - 5 - not sure he did much wrong (and criticism of the first goal seems wrong to me) but he wasn't especially convincing either.

Sonne - 5 - reasonably good in the first half but I thought he was one of several caught for the second goal and he became ragged in the second half

Pires - 6 - a little naive for the free kick from which Brady scored, otherwise OK without really imposing himself.

Worrall - 5 - caught flat footed far too often.

Esteve- 6 - dragged down a bit by the mess about him.

Shelvey - 3 - the biggest problem with our performance today. On this evidence no sort of replacement for Cullen. Pass and move without the move, and too slow to react to danger, notably for the second goal.

Brownhill- 6 - tried to get us going but unable to drag us single handedly.

Sarmiento- 4 - really disappointing. He's taking too many touches so isn't moving the ball quickly to exploit space, and hes just not strong enough to play at number 10. Outmuscled horribly yesterday.

Benson - 4 - another who was out muscled and therefore ineffective yesterday.

Koleosho- 6 - good to have him back. Clearly rusty but carried a genuine threat at times which made him unique in our ranks.

Foster - 5 - a couple of bright moments but he always struggles in games like this when the quality of ball into him requires him to wrestle with defenders. With Shelvey not at it, and Sarmiento outmuscled, he never had the platform to be a success.

Barnes - 5 - held the ball OK a fee times but no threat.

Flemming - 6 - improved us a bit, briefly.

Other subs - all 5, not able to get into a game that by then had gone.

A very poor afternoon that raises some questions about our depth, particularly in the back 7. The biggest conclusion today is that Shelvey is no sort of replacement for Cullen, so we'd best hope Cullen stays fit. We also got further evidence that Sarmiento is just not strong enough nor sharp enough to link the game as a 10.

Otherwise, players who haven't played much amd were thrown together can have the benefit of the doubt. The team made some sense on paper but with hindsight it lacked the physicality to win the inevitable scrap with a largely full strength Preston team on a cabbage patch pitch, particularly as the changes deprived us of the fluidity that comes of familiarity.

Worth keeping in perspective though. Ultimately a patched up team that had its eye on more important challenges in the league came up against a full strength team with the mid table luxury of giving the cup full priority on a pitch that suited them, and it showed. Tuesday is much bigger priority, particularly given Sheff Utd's result yesterday and Parker was right to prioritise it given the quick turnaround. Any weakness of our second string yesterday serves to support the importance of prioritising promotion, not undermine it.

[nil_desperandum]

Anybody at the game yesterday could see it coming a mile off. Poor positioning by Hladky which meant that Brady had to focus entirely on getting it over the wall.

And a further point for those trying to defend the keeper. It's the keeper's job to get the wall that he needs in the correct place and then try to have the rest covered. From a very good viewing position we all said that the wall was not set -up correctly AND that Hladky was giving Brady a free hit into the top corner.
None of us were in the least surprised when Brady took the opportunity

[ClaretTony]

Maybe Esteve missed his mate CJ?

There is very definitely something in that I think - he looked lost yesterday

[Goliath]

And a further point for those trying to defend the keeper. It's the keeper's job to get the wall that he needs in the correct place and then try to have the rest covered. From a very good viewing position we all said that the wall was not set -up correctly AND that Hladky was giving Brady a free hit into the top corner.
None of us were in the least surprised when Brady took the opportunity

What was he meant to do bar giving the men in the wall stools to stand on.

[taio]

What was he meant to do bar giving the men in the wall stools to stand on.

Position himself better. Loads of people behind the goal could see moments before the goal that Hladky was set up incorrectly.

[Goliath]

Position himself better. Loads of people behind the goal could see moments before the goal that Hladky was set up incorrectly.

He said the wall wasn't in the correct position? The positioning thing is I'm not sure of, he covered his sife and just couldn't get across quickly enough. It was probably slightly cautious positioning but nothing significantly wrong.

It's classic football fans overreacting to what at worst was a very small error.

[claretspice]

Position himself better. Loads of people behind the goal could see moments before the goal that Hladky was set up incorrectly.

I'm not sure about this. Perhaps he could have been half a yard to his left, and perhaps he could have had one more in the wall, but the reality is it's a super free kick from a very good free kick taker. We saw him score similar for us and there are few better.

As for Esteve, he was one of our better players yesterday but with Worrall caught out badly along side him, and Shelvey providing precious little protection in front of him, he was a little more exposed than normal. Worrall's defending for the 3rd goal was really poor and concerning. Sonne should do better but Worrall has to cover the near post and the fact he was on his heels so didn't was well below the standard we should expect from an experienced professional signed as first choice.

[taio]

I'm not sure about this. Perhaps he could have been half a yard to his left, and perhaps he could have had one more in the wall, but the reality is it's a super free kick from a very good free kick taker. We saw him score similar for us and there are few better.

As for Esteve, he was one of our better players yesterday but with Worrall caught out badly along side him, and Shelvey providing precious little protection in front of him, he was a little more exposed than normal. Worrall's defending for the 3rd goal was really poor and concerning. Sonne should do better but Worrall has to cover the near post and the fact he was on his heels so didn't was well below the standard we should expect from an experienced professional signed as first choice.

I agree, it was a great free kick. However, I'm certain Hladky should've been a few feet to his left. I said it prior to Brady taking the free kick as did many people around me who had the perfect view.

[the_magic_rat]

Hladky 4

Sonne 3
Worrall 4
Esteve 6
Pires 5

Benson 4
Shelvey 4
Brownhill 4
Koleosho 6 mom

Sarmiento 5
Foster 5

Laurent 6
Flemming 6
Barnes 5
Edwards 5
Banel 4

[nil_desperandum]

What was he meant to do bar giving the men in the wall stools to stand on.

Just checked - to be sure - it went to the left of the wall.
Have the wall one metre to that side , or have an extra man in the wall, and maybe Brady scores, but it certainly makes his job much more difficult.
He had a clear shot
Also on reviewing it, Hladky had both feet off the ground as Brady hit it. This was poor footwork. I'm pretty sure that Trafford, Pope and Heaton all save it.

[ClaretTony]

I agree, it was a great free kick. However, I'm certain Hladky should've been a few feet to his left. I said it prior to Brady taking the free kick as did many people around me who had the perfect view.

Totally agree with you.

[Goliath]

Just checked - to be sure - it went to the left of the wall.
Have the wall one metre to that side , or have an extra man in the wall, and maybe Brady scores, but it certainly makes his job much more difficult.
He had a clear shot
Also on reviewing it, Hladky had both feet off the ground as Brady hit it. This was poor footwork. I'm pretty sure that Trafford, Pope and Heaton all save it.

I just checked again. It's way over the wall. They all jump and it's still higher than them.

Also from the face on shot it's quite clear Hladky has positioned himself so he gets clear sight of the ball and protects that side. I think the issue is the number of people in the wall, if he has one less then he can move a step across and still have clear sight. That's the big problem but I'm still not sure he saves it, it's a brilliant set piece.

[taio]

I just checked again. It's way over the wall. They all jump and it's still higher than them.

Also from the face on shot it's quite clear Hladky has positioned himself so he gets clear sight of the ball and protects that side. I think the issue is the number of people in the wall, if he has one less then he can move a step across and still have clear sight. That's the big problem but I'm still not sure he saves it, it's a brilliant set piece.

My only issue is Hladky's position. But I think free kick went to the right hand side of the wall (from behind the goal) rather than over it.

[ClaretTony]

My only issue is Hladky's position. But I think free kick went to the right hand side of the wall (from behind the goal) rather than over it.

It doesn’t go over the wall - as you say, from our view it was to the right of the wall.

[claretspice]

I agree, it was a great free kick. However, I'm certain Hladky should've been a few feet to his left. I said it prior to Brady taking the free kick as did many people around me who had the perfect view.

Perhaps but I don't think he gets there either way. It's right in the corner.

[taio]

Perhaps but I don't think he gets there either way. It's right in the corner.

It wasn't right in the corner. With the right starting position it was savable from that distance

[Silkyskills1]

He said the wall wasn't in the correct position? The positioning thing is I'm not sure of, he covered his sife and just couldn't get across quickly enough. It was probably slightly cautious positioning but nothing significantly wrong.

It's classic football fans overreacting to what at worst was a very small error.

Aye, just a small error.

[Goliath]

Perhaps but I don't think he gets there either way. It's right in the corner.

They've made their minds up. It's not worth the time.

[Big Vinny K]

Watched the free kick a few times now.
It doesn’t go over the wall - you would have needed to put another player or possible 2 on the wall for them to have any chance of blocking it.
The ball at its ‘saving height” is definitely not right in the corner.
Not sure about keepers starting position - he’s not a tall keeper and not sure he was that quick at getting over to his left either. He’s a pretty long way from getting his hand to the ball which suggests to me that either he was too slow or stood too far to the other side (or both).
It was a good shape on the ball from Brady but there wasn’t actually that much pace on it.

Taking all this into account my own view is that Pope, Trafford and a number of other keepers saves that.

[claretspice]

It wasn't right in the corner. With the right starting position it was savable from that distance

We'll agree to disagree. It's perhaps slightly lower that the postage stamp, but only slightly, and it's within 6 inches of the post. Its a very fine free kick indeed and had it been saved, it'd have been a top class save. It's not unsaveable but equally its not an error in my opinion for it to go in and I wouldn't expect it to be saved.

I think there's a point about his starting position, particularly as he seems fairly late to move (starting further over makes some sense if you move want to have a trigger movement into line, like a batter in cricket, as many keepers do). But I don't think it makes a difference to the end outcome. Unlike Sonne and Worrall for the third goal, and Brownhill, Shelvey, Worrall and Sonne for the second goal.

[taio]

We'll agree to disagree. It's perhaps slightly lower that the postage stamp, but only slightly, and it's within 6 inches of the post. Its a very fine free kick indeed and had it been saved, it'd have been a top class save. It's not an error in my opinion for it to go in and I wouldn't expect it to be saved.

Several people have recognised his positioning wasn't right. Most of those viewed it from behind the goal because it was clear from that view. It may have required a top class save but that makes it savable. It wasn't savable because he didn't get near it due to his starting position and slowness. But, yes, fine to disagree.

[claretspice]

Several people have recognised his positioning wasn't right. Most of those viewed it from behind the goal because it was clear from that view. It may have required a top class save but that makes it savable. It wasn't savable because he didn't get near it due to his starting position and slowness. But, yes, fine to disagree.

We're saying the same thing then. It required a top class save. Hladcky is a decent keeper but he's our back up keeper in the Championship. He's not the reincarnation of Gordon Banks and nor is it fair to expect him to be. By the standards reasonable to expect of Hladcky it's not a free kick he can be *expected* to save.

It's possible to run the hundred metres in 9.7 seconds but it's incredibly rare and your still a very good international athletes if you're running 10 seconds dead.

[taio]

We're saying the same thing then. It required a top class save. Hladcky is a decent keeper but he's our back up keeper in the Championship. He's not the reincarnation of Gordon Banks and nor is it fair to expect him to be.

It's possible to run the hundred metres in 9.7 seconds but it's incredibly rare and your still a very good international athletes if you're running 10 seconds dead.

We are not saying the same thing. I'm clear that his starting position wasn't right and that he was too slow to react. Had that been different, there's every chance he would have saved it. It may have required a top save. Let's agree to disagree.

[Goliath]

Watched the free kick a few times now.
It doesn’t go over the wall - you would have needed to put another player or possible 2 on the wall for them to have any chance of blocking it.
The ball at its ‘saving height” is definitely not right in the corner.
Not sure about keepers starting position - he’s not a tall keeper and not sure he was that quick at getting over to his left either. He’s a pretty long way from getting his hand to the ball which suggests to me that either he was too slow or stood too far to the other side (or both).
It was a good shape on the ball from Brady but there wasn’t actually that much pace on it.

Taking all this into account my own view is that Pope, Trafford and a number of other keepers saves that.

Ok so you're comparing a Championship backup keeper to 2 England internationals, one of which is likely to go for 30 million.
This is part of the problem, you're expecting him to perform at the level of Trafford. We aren't going to have a backup keeper at that level when we are in this division, it's pretty simple.
Of course some keepers may have saved it but that doesn't mean it's a huge error.


Also in response to some other comments, yes it's slightly to the side of the wall but the point being it still went over their heads. You can stick another one there but all it does is delay Hladky getting across even more as he's unsighted.


For me he needed one less in the wall and it would have given him a much better opportunity of saving it if he'd had that. But it's really harsh to call it a big error.

[claretspice]

We are not saying the same thing. I'm clear that his starting position wasn't right and that he was too slow to react. Had that been different, there's every chance he would have saved it. It may have required a top save. Let's agree to disagree.

OK. I'm not sure saying "there's every chance he would have saved it" and "it would have required a top class save" are compatible but there we are.

[taio]

OK. I'm not sure saying "there's every chance he would have saved it" and "it would have required a top class save" are compatible but there we are.

I said it MAY have required a top class save, not that it would have

[Big Vinny K]

Ok so you're comparing a Championship backup keeper to 2 England internationals, one of which is likely to go for 30 million.
This is part of the problem, you're expecting him to perform at the level of Trafford. We aren't going to have a backup keeper at that level when we are in this division, it's pretty simple.
Of course some keepers may have saved it but that doesn't mean it's a huge error.


Also in response to some other comments, yes it's slightly to the side of the wall but the point being it still went over their heads. You can stick another one there but all it does is delay Hladky getting across even more as he's unsighted.


For me he needed one less in the wall and it would have given him a much better opportunity of saving it if he'd had that. But it's really harsh to call it a big error.

Sorry - did I call it a big error ?

I said that I thought Trafford, Pope and a number of other keepers save that.

Hladky got the player of the season for Ipswich didn’t he ? He was out of contract and I thought at the time he was coming here as our no 1 keeper as it looked like there was a big chance Trafford was going and it sounded like Ipswich did not want him to leave. From the games I have seen him play this season he has looked pretty poor to me. The goal from the free kick yesterday was in no way a “big error”. He did make plenty of big errors in the game though and has made them in the other games he made too.

He clearly wasn’t the only player to play poorly for us yesterday but the errors he he made looked unforced to me and were nothing to do with how poor the rest of the defence or team were playing.

[RalphCoatesComb]

Not going to demoralise any of our players any more than JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH, but they know that. They should be hurting tonight, but I suspect their instructions were "THINK ABOUT THE LEAGUE"