Abu Dhabi F1

[Lowbankclaret]

Rewatch the race and compare the line he took when lunging inside Lewis with that he took when passing one of the Ferraris. The first he went right to the edge of the track before turning in leaving the car he was passing no chance of making the turn, the second he hit the apex and left sufficient space for the Ferrari to make the turn, whilst still completing the pass.

The FIA come out of this with their credibility shot to pieces.

Have they ever had any?

Go back to Senna Prost.
Senna took pole.
Prost went to the French race director to get pole moved to the dirty side of the track and won.

Senna put Prost in the gravel trap at corner one to take the title.
He only admitted it years later.

Schy hit the wall and his car was critically damaged, when Hill caught him up he ran into him obviously on purpose. Hill retired meaning MS was WC. If hill had just held back a corner he would have been WC. Even as obvious as it was the FIA made Schy champion.

I find it so interesting that Hill has to be so careful as a pundit. He hints but never makes it obvious.

[CombatClaret]

As someone who doesn't really follow the sport I watched today and I think there lies the issue.

There was huge interest in this race drawing in viewership, interest well over and above a normal race and it went to their heads. So rather than apply the rules correctly the organizers made them up purely to create a spectacle finish. What an absolute sh1t show, won't be watching again.

[Colburn_Claret]

You can think whatever you like, but the fact the two mercedes appeals have been rejected would suggest most of you on here don't understand the sport.

I don't need your sympathy, I've been on the right side all along it would seem.

I said straight away they wouldn't change their minds, that's the way of officials. It doesn't mean it was right.
If the RC had let all of the lapped cars unlap themselves, nobody would have had a complaint, not even Red Bull, because it would be normal practice.
If RC had said none of the lapped cars could unlap themselves, again no one would have complained. Red Bull might have been unhappy, but they would have had nothing to complain about.
The fact they allowed just the cars between Lewis and Max to unlap, effectively handed the title to Max. That is why it has caused a stink, and all the complaints are coming in, from Mercedes and so many fans.
Lewis dominated the race on the track from the grid, Max couldn't get near him, even on fresher tyres. The RC KNEW that the call they made was going to change the course of the race.

It will be talked about for the next 20 years, and the officials will be clouded by the stench of it for good.

[Lowbankclaret]

As someone who doesn't really follow the sport I watched today and I think there lies the issue.

There was huge interest in this race drawing in viewership, interest well over and above a normal race and it went to their heads. So rather than apply the rules correctly the organizers made them up purely to create a spectacle finish. What an absolute sh1t show, won't be watching again.

Disagree,
Both teams stated they preferred the race finish under green flag conditions to the race director. Both teams assuming their driver would have the upper hand, it backfired on Merc this time. Been many times it’s been in their favour.

[Lowbankclaret]

I said straight away they wouldn't change their minds, that's the way of officials. It doesn't mean it was right.
If the RC had let all of the lapped cars unlap themselves, nobody would have had a complaint, not even Red Bull, because it would be normal practice.
If RC had said none of the lapped cars could unlap themselves, again no one would have complained. Red Bull might have been unhappy, but they would have had nothing to complain about.
The fact they allowed just the cars between Lewis and Max to unlap, effectively handed the title to Max. That is why it has caused a stink, and all the complaints are coming in, from Mercedes and so many fans.
Lewis dominated the race on the track from the grid, Max couldn't get near him, even on fresher tyres. The RC KNEW that the call they made was going to change the course of the race.

It will be talked about for the next 20 years, and the officials will be clouded by the stench of it for good.

If Lewis had come in for softs, he might have won the race, he didn’t, that’s the teams choice. I thought wrong at the time, as it proved in the end.
RB rolled the dice twice and got a break.

Plus if Lewis has been disqualified at Silverstone like he should have, today would have been a none event.

As I have said if this result is changed every race could end up in the court of appeal.

[RVclaret]

If Lewis had come in for softs, he might have won the race, he didn’t, that’s the teams choice. I thought wrong at the time, as it proved in the end.
RB rolled the dice twice and got a break.

Plus if Lewis has been disqualified at Silverstone like he should have, today would have been a none event.

As I have said if this result is changed every race could end up in the court of appeal.

Alternatively if it’s not changed then it opens up the race director just making up rules as he pleases to decide who wins every race.

[PeterWilton]

Alternatively if it’s not changed then it opens up the race director just making up rules as he pleases to decide who wins every race.

I suspect Michael Masi will "resign" before next season and a quiet word will be had with the new one. something along the lines of "don't make up rules. kthxbai."

[conyoviejo]

As someone who doesn't really follow the sport I watched today and I think there lies the issue.

There was huge interest in this race drawing in viewership, interest well over and above a normal race and it went to their heads. So rather than apply the rules correctly the organizers made them up purely to create a spectacle finish. What an absolute sh1t show, won't be watching again.

Spot on mate,it's almost as boring as Rugby Yawnion.In fact I'd say they both go together as being the worst two sports in the world .

[Lowbankclaret]

I suspect Michael Masi will "resign" before next season and a quiet word will be had with the new one. something along the lines of "don't make up rules. kthxbai."

Doubt it.
However under a safety car he needs discretion to make decisions.
Like drive through the pits not on track.
Red flag.
Plus many other scenarios that could happen .
He decides in VSC, or Safety car or red flag.

What we going to say, Red Flag for every crash no matter how minor it might seem .

[Lowbankclaret]

And none of this would have happened had Latifi, a Merc engined competitor not put it in the wall.

[superdimitri]

Why do people feel the need to post about how boring they find it?
I find cricket very boring, but I don't go posting about it in the various cricket threads.

[taio]

Spot on mate,it's almost as boring as Rugby Yawnion.In fact I'd say they both go together as being the worst two sports in the world .

May have been best for you not to open a thread that is so clearly about F1.

[conyoviejo]

May have been best for you not to open a thread that is so clearly about F1.

Probably Taio,but it's such a fascinating thread,far better than the boring race itself.

[Lowbankclaret]

Why do people feel the need to post about how boring they find it?
I find cricket very boring, but I don't go posting about it in the various cricket threads.

Plus some say they watched this one race and have an opinion they feel is more valid than people who have watched it for over 40 years. Whilst I will agree they are allowed an opinion, they don’t exactly know the history of the sport.

[CombatClaret]

Disagree,
Both teams stated they preferred the race finish under green flag conditions to the race director. Both teams assuming their driver would have the upper hand, it backfired on Merc this time. Been many times it’s been in their favour.

It's not about what the teams or the organizers preferred it's about the rules of the game and it seems clear they were not followed.

[Lowbankclaret]

It's not about what the teams or the organizers preferred it's about the rules of the game and it seems clear they were not followed.

Sorry to be blunt.
Which part of the race director has discretion under safety car conditions to do what he feels correct.

You can argue his decision was wrong, but it was his to take.

He could done red flag.
Standing start, rolling start.

He is under great pressure every race in what’s been a tense season.

I think they have got a lot of decisions wrong this season. It’s interesting most people just want to look at one today.

[CombatClaret]

Sorry to be blunt.
Which part of the race director has discretion under safety car conditions to do what he feels correct.
You can argue his decision was wrong, but it was his to take.

He could done red flag.
Standing start, rolling start.

He is under great pressure every race in what’s been a tense season.
I think they have got a lot of decisions wrong this season. It’s interesting most people just want to look at one today.

I defer to anyone with more knowledge, as you mentions there were lots of options eg: Red flag, all lapped cars overtake safety car, no lapped cars overtake safety car etc.
But they chose to make it up on the spot so they could have their big 1v1 finish. Seems bent as all hell and I won't be watching another.

[Shaggy]

Well done Max, best driver this year won and all the spawny decisions which went Lewis' way didnt count for anything today.

So ill treat myself to a cocktail which i shall call Tears of Mercedes... and follow it up with a pint of bitter lewis fans...

to top it all off Soft eddie got spanked today aswell.

[Shaggy]

Congratulations to Lewis Hamilton in my own humble opinion the F1 2021 World Champion.
Quite simply the greatest F1 driver of all time.

1531440_1.jpg

justice for all your Lewis helmet polishing throughout the season.

[Damo]

Loads of people on here and twitter, who don't follow race car driving, really angry that Hamilton didn't win.
Perhaps it's not such a shite sport after all

[Steve1956]

justice for all your Lewis helmet polishing throughout the season.

Fair play to Max....but it's a flawed World title....just like 2 of Schumacher's.

[Lowbankclaret]

I defer to anyone with more knowledge, as you mentions there were lots of options eg: Red flag, all lapped cars overtake safety car, no lapped cars overtake safety car etc.
But they chose to make it up on the spot so they could have their big 1v1 finish. Seems bent as all hell and I won't be watching another.

I agree that’s how it appears.
All safety cars are made up on the spot, because they can be dynamic.
VSC and Safety cars were brought in due to drivers not obeying yellow flags resulting in the deaths of drivers.

Had Lewis pitted for softs, I think he would have won anyway. But he didn’t.

[CombatClaret]

Loads of people on here and twitter, who don't follow race car driving, really angry that Hamilton didn't win.
Perhaps it's not such a shite sport after all

I'm aware of some drivers but I have zero opinion on them, I don't follow tennis but I watched the Emma Raducanu final. It's people are saying it's a big deal I'll often show up.
What I dislike is this idea there are the rules of a sport written in a book but a magic man can also make them up on the fly and coincidentally to make the end more exciting.
Zero to do with who it is or isn't affecting.

[NewClaret]

Had Lewis pitted for softs, I think he would have won anyway. But he didn’t.

As it turned out, I think that’s correct.

But it would’ve given Max track position in a race not guaranteed to restart + the risk of not being allowed to pass the lapped car. Incredibly risky call to make at that point.

[Lowbankclaret]

I defer to anyone with more knowledge, as you mentions there were lots of options eg: Red flag, all lapped cars overtake safety car, no lapped cars overtake safety car etc.
But they chose to make it up on the spot so they could have their big 1v1 finish. Seems bent as all hell and I won't be watching another.

Jules Bianchi was the last F1 driver to lose his life. Data showed he didn’t slow under the yellow flags when a car was being recovered. He lost control in the wet and his head hit the recovery vehicle resulting in his death. VSC and full SC were implemented as a result to ensure drivers complied .

[Lowbankclaret]

As it turned out, I think that’s correct.

But it would’ve given Max track position in a race not guaranteed to restart + the risk of not being allowed to pass the lapped car. Incredibly risky call to make at that point.

Agreed.
But both teams has put RC under pressure to finish under green flag conditions. Merc knew that as well as RB did.

[NewClaret]

Agreed.
But both teams has put RC under pressure to finish under green flag conditions. Merc knew that as well as RB did.

Not sure how Merc put pressure under RC to finish under green flag conditions?

Although to finish a season like that under the SC would’ve been disgraceful as well, as much as I’m upset with the outcome.

[Lowbankclaret]

Not sure how Merc put pressure under RC to finish under green flag conditions?

Although to finish a season like that under the SC would’ve been disgraceful as well, as much as I’m upset with the outcome.

It was in the Stewards report on the incident, both teams have put the RC under pressure. Both before the race and during it.
Something that needs to be stopped next year.

[NewClaret]

It was in the Stewards report on the incident, both teams have put the RC under pressure. Both before the race and during it.
Something that needs to be stopped next year.

Ah, got you. Yes, I did read that.

In some ways, in a season beset with stewards decisions, it was inevitable that it would be decided by one.

[Lowbankclaret]

Ah, got you. Yes, I did read that.

In some ways, in a season beset with stewards decisions, it was inevitable that it would be decided by one.

Had Latifi not binned it, none of this would have happened. I have read conspiracy’s saying it was all done on purpose. No way a Merc engined driver crashed on purpose.
Had it been Perez or a Toro car it could be true but not a Merc engined car.
Lewis had it in the bag till Latifi crashed.

Not the same but Massa had it in the bag till Glocks car broke down with a 100 yards to go on the last lap which gave Lewis his first title.

[superdimitri]

I thought about a new 'crashgate' but it was pretty clear Latifi went over the car destroying kerbs before he lost control and crashed. Furthermore, he didn't even drive on to them from his own accord, he was pushed over on to them.

[Lowbankclaret]

I thought about a new 'crashgate' but it was pretty clear Latifi went over the car destroying kerbs before he lost control and crashed. Furthermore, he didn't even drive on to them from his own accord, he was pushed over on to them.

What a load of BS.
He crashed all on his own after going wide during a squabble over position.
As a Merc engined driver, his Merc career is now over. Intent or no intent.

[NewClaret]

Had Latifi not binned it, none of this would have happened. I have read conspiracy’s saying it was all done on purpose. No way a Merc engined driver crashed on purpose.
Had it been Perez or a Toro car it could be true but not a Merc engined car.
Lewis had it in the bag till Latifi crashed.

Not the same but Massa had it in the bag till Glocks car broke down with a 100 yards to go on the last lap which gave Lewis his first title.

Agree, no conspiracy there. Although the fact any team have ties to others is completely wrong and should be addressed for the future integrity of the sport.

On the incident, I turned the TV off in disgust but having just thought about it a bit more, the whole thing was just a shambles. Three really weird things about it:

1. MM originally called that lapped cars could not unlap themselves. My understanding is that has always been allowed in the past? So that decision was abnormal and presumably left RB with a valid appeal?

2. Then he calls it late, but only lets 5 through. That in itself I have never seen in 30+ years of watching F1. It must be unprecedented? And surely done because the other 3 lapped cars couldn’t get around on time for the SC not to do another lap?

3. Then I read the rules say the SC has to come in the following lap after the lapped cars overtake, which it didn’t. I didn’t know that rule.

All in all, a cluster ****.

[Lowbankclaret]

Agree, no conspiracy there. Although the fact any team have ties to others is completely wrong and should be addressed for the future integrity of the sport.

On the incident, I turned the TV off in disgust but having just thought about it a bit more, the whole thing was just a shambles. Three really weird things about it:

1. MM originally called that lapped cars could not unlap themselves. My understanding is that has always been allowed in the past? So that decision was abnormal and presumably left RB with a valid appeal?


That was because there were still workers and vehicles on the run off area, see Jules Bianchi
The whole reason VSC and SC were brought in

2. Then he calls it late, but only lets 5 through. That in itself I have never seen in 30+ years of watching F1. It must be unprecedented? And surely done because the other 3 lapped cars couldn’t get around on time for the SC not to do another lap?

That his call and did surprise me, but both team lobbied to have the race finish under green flag conditions. Probably influenced his decision. Charlie Whiting would have finished under SC in my humble opinion..

3. Then I read the rules say the SC has to come in the following lap after the lapped cars overtake, which it didn’t. I didn’t know that rule.

Again under SC rules the race director can do what he feel appropriate if it’s safe.

All in all, a cluster ****.

[superdimitri]

That's what I thought was strange, the change of mind. Like Masi gave in to the whining bulls.

[addisclaret]

justice for all your Lewis helmet polishing throughout the season.

Clever you are.

[addisclaret]

Had Latifi not binned it, none of this would have happened. I have read conspiracy’s saying it was all done on purpose. No way a Merc engined driver crashed on purpose.
Had it been Perez or a Toro car it could be true but not a Merc engined car.
Lewis had it in the bag till Latifi crashed.

Not the same but Massa had it in the bag till Glocks car broke down with a 100 yards to go on the last lap which gave Lewis his first title.

Glock's car didn't break down at all, he still had the wet tyres on a drying track, there is an onboard video of him losing places hand over fist on youtube because he was on the wrong tyres.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhH93grvh84

[Damo]

I'm aware of some drivers but I have zero opinion on them, I don't follow tennis but I watched the Emma Raducanu final. It's people are saying it's a big deal I'll often show up.
What I dislike is this idea there are the rules of a sport written in a book but a magic man can also make them up on the fly and coincidentally to make the end more exciting.
Zero to do with who it is or isn't affecting.

"I'll often show up"
Give it a rest mate. I bet you watched it on the telly

[Colburn_Claret]

If Lewis had come in for softs, he might have won the race, he didn’t, that’s the teams choice. I thought wrong at the time, as it proved in the end.
RB rolled the dice twice and got a break.

Plus if Lewis has been disqualified at Silverstone like he should have, today would have been a none event.

As I have said if this result is changed every race could end up in the court of appeal.

Thinking Lewis could have pitted for soft tyres shows how little you know about the sport

[RVclaret]

Thinking Lewis could have pitted for soft tyres shows how little you know about the sport

Exactly this. Sick and tired of seeing this utterly stupid and redundant point made.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Fantastic result

[Firthy]

Fantastic result

You're obviously into fishing

[Firthy]

Regardless of the rights and wrongs and peoples differing opinions I cam sum up yesterdays events in 4 words.

Condolences Lewis, RIP F1

[Zlatan]

Thinking Lewis could have pitted for soft tyres shows how little you know about the sport

I disagree. Lowbank has regularly shown in depth knowledge of the sport and on occasion been spot on in their assessments. The issue with the SC this weekend is that the action taken was only one option from various options available and the decision was made by the race director under extreme pressure, they made the call and are now dealing with the consequences of the ambiguity that could apply.

The option I would have taken would have been a red flag, but hindsight is a powerful tool right... Race Director made the call, Red Bull responded and Max won. Lewis was heard on several occasions requesting new tyres, but his team made the call to not do that - that is neither Max's nor Red Bulls fault - culpability remains with Mercedes and they know that hence the post race complaints.

Lowbank is also right in that if Lewis had been DQ'd at Silverstone this race would have been a non event.

The fact is that Max won and some people cant get their head around that.

I suspect the ambiguity will be removed from scenarios like this for next year - it will be a clear directive that the call to red flag will need to be taken quickly so that we can avoid several laps of SC and as such remove the possibility of finishing races under the SC conditions.

[NewClaret]

Lowbank is also right in that if Lewis had been DQ'd at Silverstone this race would have been a non event.

Great post. I’d not considered a reg flag and in hindsight that would have been MUCH fairer. 3/4 laps both on softs at the end. Fastest car/driver wins.

Not having that Lewis should have been DQ at Silverstone though. Here’s the stills posted at the time. Max had the whole track and drove in to him, no space give at all.

Ultimately he lost it in Baku with the brake magic error.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 99833.html

Even the commentator said Max couldn't be sure where Lewis was when they clipped each other, but Max was trying to take the racing line on the corner.

Lewis had room on his right hand side to get closer to the inside edge, but probably took more room than he needed.
It was classed as a racing incident at the end of the day.
Interesting how that decision is respected by Hamilton fans.....

[Herts Clarets]

Lewis.jpg (332.38 KiB) Viewed 1734 times

Sainz.jpg (317.64 KiB) Viewed 1734 times

For anyone who thinks that Max did anything other than try to run Lewis off the track on the first lap, take a look at the 2 pics. 1 is the line when he passed Sainz, hit the apex and gave Sainz space to make the turn. The other is when he runs right to the edge of the track and forces Lewis to run off the track or collide with him.

[Devils_Advocate]

Lewis.jpgSainz.jpgFor anyone who thinks that Max did anything other than try to run Lewis off the track on the first lap, take a look at the 2 pics. 1 is the line when he passed Sainz, hit the apex and gave Sainz space to make the turn. The other is when he runs right to the edge of the track and forces Lewis to run off the track or collide with him.

Hi Herts a bit off topic but I was planning to spend Xmas eve with the family around the fireplace listening to Xmas music and was wondering whether you had got round to listening to the 2019 selection and if so would you recommend it?

[Colburn_Claret]

I disagree. Lowbank has regularly shown in depth knowledge of the sport and on occasion been spot on in their assessments. The issue with the SC this weekend is that the action taken was only one option from various options available and the decision was made by the race director under extreme pressure, they made the call and are now dealing with the consequences of the ambiguity that could apply.

The option I would have taken would have been a red flag, but hindsight is a powerful tool right... Race Director made the call, Red Bull responded and Max won. Lewis was heard on several occasions requesting new tyres, but his team made the call to not do that - that is neither Max's nor Red Bulls fault - culpability remains with Mercedes and they know that hence the post race complaints.

Lowbank is also right in that if Lewis had been DQ'd at Silverstone this race would have been a non event.

The fact is that Max won and some people cant get their head around that.

I suspect the ambiguity will be removed from scenarios like this for next year - it will be a clear directive that the call to red flag will need to be taken quickly so that we can avoid several laps of SC and as such remove the possibility of finishing races under the SC conditions.

IF Lewis had pitted for softs, Max would have stayed out, because he'd gain the lead by default. Max had nothing g to lose as he was well beaten anyway.
To turn this round so that you can understand the problem. IF Lewis had gone for softs, and Max stayed out, which would then become a no-brainer, Masi would have been faced with exactly the same situation but the teams would have swapped circumstances. I believe Masi would have let the race finish under the yellow flag, as I believe, no proof, that the powers that be wanted Max to win the title.
What is certain, is if Masi had made the same call and enforced an unfair last lap sprint , Red Bull would have gone ballistic. Quite rightly. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

[Firthy]

The only person to come out of all this with any credibility is Lewis. He accepted it gracefully, god knows what he must have been thinking in reality.