Abu Dhabi F1

[PeterWilton]

Double protest from Mercedes.

This rule was clearly broken.

Can’t just let the cars between 1st and 2nd pass for the fun of it.

Yeah. I mean, the word "all" is clearly written there. Twice. Masi invented a rule. And what's ironic is that I think it was Horner who recently said that the FIA shouldn't create penalties specifically with championship-outcome considerations in mind. I'll find the quote.


Here it is:

“It just comes back to you wanting consistency,” said the Red Bull team principal.

“What happened in Turn 4 [at Interlagos], what happened wherever it was, should be applied to this race. You can’t just go and pluck something out of the air and say, ‘OK, yep, that’s what we will now apply’.

“Because I think that will make a mockery of the policing of the championship.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/christian ... y-mockery/

[GodIsADeeJay81]

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[Stanbill05]

Max has been robbed as well, especially if this ends up being his only championship. He'll pretend otherwise but will know his title is tainted. I wouldn't appeal if I was Mercedes. None of it was red bulls fault. It's done. It's all on the official.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Max has been robbed as well, especially if this ends up being his only championship. He'll pretend otherwise but will know his title is tainted. I wouldn't appeal if I was Mercedes. None of it was red bulls fault. It's done. It's all on the official.

He already stated during the season he was annoyed with the stewards not letting him race, he won't care.

[Colburn_Claret]

I'd be satisfied with Massi's head on a plate.
Whatever went on wasn't Red Bull, or Max's fault. It's Massi who spoilt it, and brought the stench to the race. He shouldn't be given the opportunity to do it ever again.

[jos]

If anyone thinks that was a fair race and a suitable outcome then you're totally deluded.

It’s only a fair race if everyone has the same car to race each other.

F1 has never been fair. If it was you wouldn’t have Constructers racing in it.

If you mean it wasn’t the outcome you expected, then you’re not alone, the FIA have been hopeless recently.

But I’m pleased for Max, mainly because I didn’t want the same guy winning year after year.

[PremierLeagueClass]

So you wanted it ended under a safety car so Lewis would win the race etc.
Just go with that, it's the boring option after what we just had, but clearly the preferable one for you and the others.

I’d give up on this one. It just becomes clearer with every post you know very little about the sport.

[PeterWilton]

Max has been robbed as well, especially if this ends up being his only championship. He'll pretend otherwise but will know his title is tainted. I wouldn't appeal if I was Mercedes. None of it was red bulls fault. It's done. It's all on the official.

Yeah. I was thinking that one of the reasons he won't want to wipe out Hamilton is Shummy's example. That guy won another 6 after what he did to Hill but everyone remembers what he did. He raced honourably and won the championship without any dirty tactics in the final race but the FIA have forever tainted his first title, regardless of however many more he wins. It won't be as much a knock against his career success when he eventually retires though. And it won't be any knock against him personally as a sportsman.

[Claret3495]

Well Lewis was completely robbed. Not Max's fault, but they FIA have been consistently inconsistent the whole year. The race director needs sacking. What a rubbish end to the season. It appears the priority for the FIA is to now to create drama so they have more hits on Netflix, rather than letting it be a sports contest.

[Stanbill05]

Yeah. I was thinking that one of the reasons he won't want to wipe out Hamilton is Shummy's example. That guy won another 6 after what he did to Hill but everyone remembers what he did. He raced honourably and won the championship without any dirty tactics in the final race but the FIA have forever tainted his first title, regardless of however many more he wins. It won't be as much a knock against his career success when he eventually retires though. And it won't be any knock against him personally as a sportsman.

On the flip side if the appeal is successful and it's overturned (whatever that means) Hamilton will be tainted. Better letting it go and making sure they're better next year..

[RVclaret]

On the flip side if the appeal is successful and it's overturned (whatever that means) Hamilton will be tainted. Better letting it go and making sure they're better next year..

Disagree it would be tainted. He was the deserved winner of the race and therefore Championship. Plus he’s already won 7.

[Claret3495]

It would be tainted as it hasn't been won on the track. There are no winners in this situation from here

[Stanbill05]

Disagree it would be tainted. He was the deserved winner of the race and therefore Championship. Plus he’s already won 7.

That maybe so and his legacy will be fine (because he's won so many). Pretty sure they'll be sour taste all round.

[Andreshotboots]

I'm not a massive fan but I must admit for the first time ever I've watched the last 6 races and enjoyed them as there was the title fight.

To me though from an outsider's point of view, and to use a football comparison,. It's like having Chelsea and City In a league, with a couple of mid table premier league teams who can win the odd game, and the rest making up the numbers from league 2.

If F1 could find a way to have 6 or 7 drivers fighting for the title I'd probably watch more, and I'm sure other none specialist fans would too.

Did enjoy the last few weeks though..

[Steve1956]

Congratulations to Lewis Hamilton in my own humble opinion the F1 2021 World Champion.
Quite simply the greatest F1 driver of all time.

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[PeterWilton]

On the flip side if the appeal is successful and it's overturned (whatever that means) Hamilton will be tainted. Better letting it go and making sure they're better next year..

I mean they've got to appeal it right? What Masi did wasn't right and they have to push that point if only for future situations where the FIA might think about completely ******* things up like this for entertainment. Max didn't have to pit. He and Red Bull chose to be behind those lapped cars. The only correct decision would be to not allow lapped cars to overtake, thus allowing the one lap of racing that Max wanted. The FIA can't let this happen again, and an appeal aids in ensuring that.

[PeterWilton]

Disagree it would be tainted. He was the deserved winner of the race and therefore Championship. Plus he’s already won 7.

"deserved winner of the race"

Just how?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I’d give up on this one. It just becomes clearer with every post you know very little about the sport.

Of course I don't, it's not like I've watched lots of races since I was a kid including that Senna race, but it's clear people wanted the race finished behind the safety car.

[PeterWilton]

Of course I don't, it's not like I've watched lots of races since I was a kid including that Senna race, but it's clear people wanted the race finished behind the safety car.

Why does it have to be that we wanted it finished behind the safety car and not just that we didn't want the race director going against the rules and regulations of the event?

[ClaretMov]

Hamilton was robbed, let's hope he wins the appeal, Max should be given a 5 second penalty making Lewis the rightful champion

[RVclaret]

"deserved winner of the race"

Just how?

1. He was 11.5 seconds clear of Max prior to the crash
2. According to the rules there should not have even been a final lap so the winner of the race would have been him
3. There should not have been the 4 cars moving way in between Max and him making him a sitting duck

[Firthy]

Of course I don't, it's not like I've watched lots of races since I was a kid including that Senna race, but it's clear people wanted the race finished behind the safety car.

Better than Max pitting for soft tyres under the safety car and losing 5 places, only for those places to be handed back to him and then bringing the safety car in a lap early, knowing damn well what would happen on the final lap. That is not fair racing, it's corrupt, fixed and a disgrace to the sport and totally disrespectful to both drivers, both teams and the followers of F1.

[PeterWilton]

I wonder if they'll consider making it a shared world title. It'd be unprecedented (i think) but that clearly doesn't matter any more.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Better than Max pitting for soft tyres under the safety car and losing 5 places, only for those places to be handed back to him and then bringing the safety car in a lap early, knowing damn well what would happen on the final lap. That is not fair racing, it's corrupt, fixed and a disgrace to the sport and totally disrespectful to both drivers, both teams and the followers of F1.

Yes it's much better to sit there on worn tyres in the hope the car is finished behind the safety car, or red flagged like a previous race.

Tactics were chosen, one worked out and the other didn't.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Why does it have to be that we wanted it finished behind the safety car and not just that we didn't want the race director going against the rules and regulations of the event?

There weren't enough laps for it to be anything other than a safety car finish or get those 4 cars out of the way for a proper end to the race.

[Firthy]

Yes it's much better to sit there on worn tyres in the hope the car is finished behind the safety car, or red flagged like a previous race.

Tactics were chosen, one worked out and the other didn't.

Bullshit. Nothing to do with tactics, everything to do with inept (even corrupt) stewards.

[PeterWilton]

1. He was 11.5 seconds clear of Max prior to the crash
2. According to the rules there should not have even been a final lap so the winner of the race would have been him
3. There should not have been the 4 cars moving way in between Max and him making him a sitting duck

#2 is incorrect. According to the rules they either let all lapped cars through, or they don't. If they choose to let them through then that'd take longer than not doing it, which would mean the safety car stays out an extra lap, which then means the race ends under the safety car.

If they choose to not let lapped cars unlap themselves then the safety car can come in to the pits in time for one more racing lap. Those were the two options, according to the rules. Masi made up a third option.

[Stanbill05]

Yes it's much better to sit there on worn tyres in the hope the car is finished behind the safety car, or red flagged like a previous race.

Tactics were chosen, one worked out and the other didn't.

Tactics based around a known ruleset. That's the problem when you change the rules mid race..

[PeterWilton]

Bullshit. Nothing to do with tactics, everything to do with inept (even corrupt) stewards.

I don't think Masi's corrupt. He just made an awful decision.

[1968claret]

Not quite sure what will happen here. I think Mercedes are correct, the normal rules were not followed and it left LH a sitting duck on the last lap.
That being said I am not sure I would want the title to be settled in a courtroom.
One thing that must happen next season is far greater clarity on the rules and also I don’t think any of the teams should be allowed to contact the race director during the race. Maybe one simplification could be that no racer is allowed to visit the pits whilst the safety car is out? Would make things a lot simpler and stop some of these perverse outcomes?

[PeterWilton]

There weren't enough laps for it to be anything other than a safety car finish or get those 4 cars out of the way for a proper end to the race.

Max chose to pit. He didn't have to. He chose to do that, and that put him behind lapped cars. If he'd stayed out then it'd have still been a 1 lap race but without the controversy because he'd have been on Hamilton's arse without the race director moving cars around.

[Oshkoshclaret]

I am not a fan of Lewis Hamilton, but he was clearly robbed today.

[Taffy on the wing]

I'm a recent convert to this sport........but i won't watch again after that.....CORRUPT!

[Firthy]

I don't think Masi's corrupt. He just made an awful decision.

I'm not so sure. Why would they pit Max and put him 5 places further back knowing they would only get one laps racing (at best) unless they knew that those 5 cars would be moved out of the way.

[LoveCurryPies]

Strangest finish ever. I feel rather sorry for Lewis and quite disappointed by F1.

[Stanbill05]

Mercedes have sent the lawyers in... I don't like it. Sport needs controversy and even wrong decisions before it needs that.

[PeterWilton]

I'm not so sure. Why would they pit Max and put him 5 places further back knowing they would only get one laps racing (at best) unless they knew that those 5 cars would be moved out of the way.

Because they wanted Max to be immediately behind Lewis with softs. They won't have had time to calculate car positions and just happened to end up behind 5 lapped cars. They had to make an immediate decision. Race against Lewis for the final few laps (because they can't have known it'd take 3 or 4 laps to make the track safe) or come in and switch to Softs and hope not to have any lapped cars get in the way.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I'm not so sure. Why would they pit Max and put him 5 places further back knowing they would only get one laps racing (at best) unless they knew that those 5 cars would be moved out of the way.

They didn't know, they just took a stab in the dark pretty much.

[Devils_Advocate]

Mercedes have sent the lawyers in... I don't like it. Sport needs controversy and even wrong decisions before it needs that.

If the Premier League let someone like Watford or Newcastle move a game at the end of the season against the rules because they had injury's and then they won the rescheduled game which resulted in Burnley going down would you prefer the controversy or would you want our club to challenge the decision?

[Lowbankclaret]

This not the first time a season has finished in controversy.
Senna / Prost twice.
Schy / Hill
Schy / Villenerve.

Thing is the FIA have changed the result after the final flag, even though I think they should have twice.

If Merc get this over turned, then you will see lots of races being challenged in the courts. Take Silverstone for example, I think Lewis should have been disqualified for dangerous driving. If the whole evidence was scrutinised for two weeks in a court room today’s race would have been a irrelevant.
It could also be argued other race results could have been changed.

Teams with have QC at every race and it will descend into a farce, but you could argue it already did.

As has been said Massi should have red flagged the race, Lewis and Max would have been on new softs, probably ending with a crash.

[BurnleyFC]

Mercedes are hardly squeaky clean themselves. Boo hoo.

Hamilton and Mercedes will be back but well done to Max Verstappen and Red Bull.

[PeterWilton]

They didn't know, they just took a stab in the dark pretty much.

Yeah. Pretty much. And it was probably the correct gamble to make. The choice was between Lewis on very used Hard types versus Max on moderately used Hards at a point when Max wasn't really gaining much time on Lewis any more. And give him possibly 2 laps to get past him. Or pit him, give him softs, and hope to get him back immediately behind Lewis. It ended up not working because of the 5 cars in between. But that's when Masi got involved.

[Lowbankclaret]

If the Premier League let someone like Watford or Newcastle move a game at the end of the season against the rules because they had injury's and then they won the rescheduled game which resulted in Burnley going down would you prefer the controversy or would you want our club to challenge the decision?

I am not sure that’s a comparison.

But I would argue the Wood challenge and the CP player not being sent off is. Is that a time for Burnley to employ a QC, would we the game replayed, CP docked a goal. So we get 3 points. Did the ref get that wrong 100%, did it affect the result, maybe.

That I would argue is a better comparison, and most fans let that go pretty easy.

[Stanbill05]

I'm sure there are plenty of controversial decisions that have had massive impact. This was an in play decision. Once the game has been affected and finished, there is nothing you can do. It's a slippery slope if there is constant risk of legal action.

[Firthy]

I'm sure there are plenty of controversial decisions that have had massive impact. This was an in play decision. Once the game has been affected and finished, there is nothing you can do. It's a slippery slope if there is constant risk of legal action.

But it's OK for the stewards to break their own rules and protocols to hand the title to Max. Toto said on the radio before the restart "this isn't right" and I totally agree with him.

[Devils_Advocate]

I am not sure that’s a comparison.

But I would argue the Wood challenge and the CP player not being sent off is. Is that a time for Burnley to employ a QC, would we the game replayed, CP docked a goal. So we get 3 points. Did the ref get that wrong 100%, did it affect the result, maybe.

That I would argue is a better comparison, and most fans let that go pretty easy.

Im sorry but my comparison is a lot better than your simple everyday refereeing decision that wouldnt decide anything either way.

This is about application of the rules not subjective interpretation of them and my question was about would the poster would take the same stance if the Premier League deliberately did not apply the rules correctly to give an opposition a better chance of staying up at our expense and as a result we got relegated.

[superdimitri]

I'm a Hamilton fan but I don't really get how you can say race control is corrupt given the decision in the first corner. Decisions this year and mostly favored Mercedes.
It's usual for every car to overlap, they wanted the best chance of seeing some racing and let only the ones near the front overlap.
The problem was Mercedes couldn't gamble bringing Hamilton in because they didn't know if the race would finish with a safety car or not.

Just really, really unlucky that Latifi crashed out, but that's the risk you take going long on old tires. If Hamilton hadn't used his used pair of hards it may have been different.

In the end, the stupid curbs they put in this year cost Hamilton indirectly by damaging Latifi's car.

[AlargeClaret]

Great season and a well deserved title to Max who took this with a slightly inferior car . Shame it had to be via a safety car, and awful luck for Lewis .The unlapping etc during a safety car is the standard practice ,so the decision was technically correct despite the incessant wailing of the Lewis fan boys ,and the understandable Teutonic rage of Toto. Let’s not forget the great Kimi Räikkönen retired today ,a pity Alpha offered him such a hideous car these last 3 seasons but an absolute legend .

[Lowbankclaret]

Im sorry but my comparison is a lot better than your simple everyday refereeing decision that wouldnt decide anything either way.

This is about application of the rules not subjective interpretation of them and my question was about would the poster would take the same stance if the Premier League deliberately did not apply the rules correctly to give an opposition a better chance of staying up at our expense and as a result we got relegated.

I suggest the VAR ref deliberately didn’t interpret the rules in the very same way. It’s in a pressure situation, your example could be decided in an armchair with no pressure whatsoever. Plus the CP decision could still get us relegated.

[Stanbill05]

But it's OK for the stewards to break their own rules and protocols to hand the title to Max. Toto said on the radio before the restart "this isn't right" and I totally agree with him.

No it's not right and heads should roll, but what do you recommend? You can't punish Max, he's done nothing to deserve a penalty. How do you reverse the decision?