Good luck Liverpool!

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon May 30, 2022 12:10 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sun May 29, 2022 11:36 pm
It also depends on whether that were any forged tickets. I don’t get it but do many people want to condemn the fans because it’s Liverpool. There is going to have to be an enquiry into this, much better waiting to see what comes out of that.

What I can tell you is a friend of mine has been on tv today having been caught up in it. He was very condemning of the organisation. Another friend has told me it was a very scary and frightening experience.

It started on here last night with some standing in judgement before they had a clue what was happening. I find it quite sad that people would do that.

The French even said Andy Robertson's tickets that he gave to a friend through the club were fake, it's pure nonsense.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:19 am

Blag tickets were openly on sale in work last week @£85 a ticket, remarkably they all had different seat numbers with supporting QR/bar codes holograms and watermarks, sales were well in to double figures and they were bought mostly by lads whose tales of bunking in to Wembley have been the topic for the last 2 weeks.
I probably have a coloured view, but there's a common thread with Istanbul, Athens, Kyiv and now Paris.

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:38 am

If there’s one thing that the French are good at then it’s blaming everyone else. Arrogance at the highest level. I wonder who is to blame for the organisation in St Étienne yesterday.

Nori1958 · Post by **Nori1958** » Mon May 30, 2022 8:01 am

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑
Sun May 29, 2022 11:03 pm
That depends if they knew they were forgeries. If they believed they had genuine tickets you can't point the finger at them.

They will know because of where they bought them from... Official outlets ok, Jimmy in the Swan on Scottie Road maybe not so much

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon May 30, 2022 8:58 am

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sun May 29, 2022 8:36 pm
To be fair I'd rather eat Michael Owen than corned beef.

Don't you think he'd taste a bit bland?

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Mon May 30, 2022 9:02 am

The local mp who went did say on tv that some supporters at the start tried to jump the turnstiles but it was a tiny minority, after Hillsborough you'd think it would be the last club in the world to do such things.
However it was also obvious that the police and authorities were very badly organised and gangs of locals took advantage as well.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon May 30, 2022 9:30 am

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 9:02 am
The local mp who went did say on tv that some supporters at the start tried to jump the turnstiles but it was a tiny minority, after Hillsborough you'd think it would be the last club in the world to do such things.
However it was also obvious that the police and authorities were very badly organised and gangs of locals took advantage as well.

That local MP was Ian Byrne and I think you have misunderstood what Ian said. He was referring to some young French lads, not Liverpool supporters.

Sproggy · Post by **Sproggy** » Mon May 30, 2022 9:34 am

Latest from the BBC: "France's sports minister says Liverpool fans without valid tickets caused the initial crowd problems at Saturday's Champions League final in Paris.

Amelie Oudea-Castera blamed a "mass gathering" of supporters with "fake tickets" for the chaos at the stadium.

But she said local youths trying to force their way in made things worse."

Nori1958 · Post by **Nori1958** » Mon May 30, 2022 9:34 am

There was one idiot who posted a picture of him and his dad inside the ground bragging his dad had forced his way in...... I bet he doesn't put himself forward to be interviewed during any investigation.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon May 30, 2022 9:36 am

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Sun May 29, 2022 12:44 am
Apparently the queues were down to Liverpool fans jamming the turnstiles with forged tickets according to UEFA and the French police. No doubt the truth will come out.

Seems to be quite a few definitely valid tickets (Andy Robertson's family and John Coleman who had a ticket via Andy Holt) that were claimed to be fakes by the French authorities.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Mon May 30, 2022 9:55 am

aggi wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 9:36 am
Seems to be quite a few definitely valid tickets (Andy Robertson's family and John Coleman who had a ticket via Andy Holt) that were claimed to be fakes by the French authorities.

Is it possible their seats had already been 'claimed' by someone with a fake ticket?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon May 30, 2022 10:08 am

Tall Paul wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 8:58 am
Don't you think he'd taste a bit bland?

He probably tastes like chicken.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Mon May 30, 2022 10:09 am

I feel for Andy Robertson.

He’s a proper easy-to-like bloke.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon May 30, 2022 10:18 am

Caballo wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 9:55 am
Is it possible their seats had already been 'claimed' by someone with a fake ticket?

Nothing to do with seats, their tickets didn’t work.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon May 30, 2022 10:20 am

Caballo wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 9:55 am
Is it possible their seats had already been 'claimed' by someone with a fake ticket?

From the sounds of things this was quite a bit back before getting to the seats.

dandeclaret · Post by **dandeclaret** » Mon May 30, 2022 10:26 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 10:18 am
Nothing to do with seats, their tickets didn’t work.

But etickets don't work at anywhere they are checked if somebody has already passed through that using that QR code. I see it happening at big racing festivals regularly and also at big GAA Games, festivals, concerts - people with genuine tickets getting stopped, because a tout in the car park has sold a copy of it. It causes big arguments there too, blocking up the checkpoints / turnstiles and causing queues.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Mon May 30, 2022 10:29 am

aggi wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 10:20 am
From the sounds of things this was quite a bit back before getting to the seats.

If the fake ticket had been scanned, then it would prevent that barcode being scanned again, so when the original is scanned it be blocked

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon May 30, 2022 10:33 am

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 10:29 am
If the fake ticket had been scanned, then it would prevent that barcode being scanned again, so when the original is scanned it be blocked

dandeclaret wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 10:26 am
But etickets don't work at anywhere they are checked if somebody has already passed through that using that QR code. I see it happening at big racing festivals regularly and also at big GAA Games, festivals, concerts - people with genuine tickets getting stopped, because a tout in the car park has sold a copy of it. It causes big arguments there too, blocking up the checkpoints / turnstiles and causing queues.

Yes, but it seems very unlikely that tickets coming through those channels are ones that would have been cloned.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Mon May 30, 2022 10:48 am

aggi wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 10:33 am
Yes, but it seems very unlikely that tickets coming through those channels are ones that would have been cloned.

They don't have to have the originals to 'clone', once the seat number to qr reference has been cracked they can produce codes for every seat in the ground, the race is then on for which arrives at an entry scanner 1st.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon May 30, 2022 11:00 am

Caballo wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 10:48 am
They don't have to have the originals to 'clone', once the seat number to qr reference has been cracked they can produce codes for every seat in the ground, the race is then on for which arrives at an entry scanner 1st.

I'd be amazed if those barcodes/qrs weren't encrypted, it's not as if it's a new technology and it's a trivial step. Have you any links to this actually happening?

Tribesmen · Post by **Tribesmen** » Mon May 30, 2022 11:01 am

I have been to Paris a few times at sold out games and never had any problems , but one thing is for sure the French Police and more so the CRS never ask questions and there is only ever one winner on that front .

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon May 30, 2022 11:02 am

Isn't France still in a state of emergency?

That give the police and the CRS a lot more discretion and powers

Berne Leigh · Post by **Berne Leigh** » Mon May 30, 2022 11:25 am

Did the Real Madrid fans suffer similar problems?

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Mon May 30, 2022 12:59 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 9:30 am
That local MP was Ian Byrne and I think you have misunderstood what Ian said. He was referring to some young French lads, not Liverpool supporters.

I must have confused him with a journalist who witnessed the Liverpool fans doing it.
I hope when the truth comes out there isn't a whitewash of anything,ie the policing,organisation and also the high tech forgeries and the people buying them knowing full well they would be stopping fellow supporters getting in.
If as some of our more technical posters have alluded to perhaps another layer of security in the tickets needs to be incorporated.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon May 30, 2022 1:51 pm

I see the French are reporting ( no doubt already mentioned “ “ ticket forgeries on an industrial scale “‘. This no doubt led to the huge delays and breakdown in comms etc . I hope the scousers don’t get away with this one . It’s quite shocking to think what might have happened if everyone was let inc 1000’s of dodgy tickets .

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon May 30, 2022 1:56 pm

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 1:51 pm
I see the French are reporting ( no doubt already mentioned “ “ ticket forgeries on an industrial scale “‘. This no doubt led to the huge delays and breakdown in comms etc . I hope the scousers don’t get away with this one . It’s quite shocking to think what might have happened if everyone was let inc 1000’s of dodgy tickets .

So the fact that they French story has switched in 24 hours, from Liverpool fans causing trouble to 1000’s of dodgy tickets does nothing to make you question if the French are simply trying to cover up their failings?

Are we really going to believe a competition like Champions League cannot produce a system that prevents forgery? Really?

Bigbopper · Post by **Bigbopper** » Mon May 30, 2022 2:12 pm

Liverpool fans have done a fantastic PR job on themselves in the recent past. Its almost a criminal offence to even suggest they may be in the wrong.

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Mon May 30, 2022 2:23 pm

Bigbopper wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 2:12 pm
Liverpool fans have done a fantastic PR job on themselves in the recent past. Its almost a criminal offence to even suggest they may be in the wrong.

Could it be that they aren’t in the wrong?????

Do we have to condemn without knowing the full facts?

I have seen pictures/ videos that don’t paint a great picture for Liverpool fans but I think them are all away from the ground. All that I have seen near the ground have been what look like none Liverpool fans.

It is clear that forged tickets is at least part of the issue is that the fault of the purchaser or the producer??

The other knowns

Liverpool fans pushed into very tight lines to enter the ground causing a crush
Only 2 gates open which kept getting shut periodically
Locals climbing fences and trying to force entry
Possibly a small amount of Liverpool fans doing the same

Fake tickets on an industrial scale

Bigbopper · Post by **Bigbopper** » Mon May 30, 2022 2:25 pm

"Possibly a small amount of Liverpool fans doing the same"????

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon May 30, 2022 2:26 pm

JarrowClaret wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 2:23 pm
Could it be that they aren’t in the wrong?????

Do we have to condemn without knowing the full facts?

Sadly people want to condemn regardless of any info. Some of the posts in this thread even before kick off that I had to remove were shameful.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon May 30, 2022 2:29 pm

SKY SPORTS: First of all they tried to blame Liverpool supporters, and now they're trying to blame fake tickets."

Kaveh Solhekol questions the French Minister's response to the chaos at the Champions League final.

https://twitter.com/skysportsnews/statu ... NK5LdL-mnQ

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon May 30, 2022 2:31 pm

What exactly was the young Liverpool fan in this clip doing wrong?

https://twitter.com/fxmc1957/status/153 ... NK5LdL-mnQ

jollyjack · Post by **jollyjack** » Mon May 30, 2022 2:35 pm

Did anyone notice the difference in the crowd in the Madrid section, all seats taken and stairs etc all clear to the other end where the stairs were all full through the match? Obviously more people in that end than seats available.

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Mon May 30, 2022 2:42 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 2:26 pm
Sadly people want to condemn regardless of any info. Some of the posts in this thread even before kick off that I had to remove were shameful.

I have travelled to a European final with Liverpool in the past UEFA cup final against Aleves was with a very good friend of mine not 1 issue.

I had 2 friends in Paris for the final both entered the ballot 1 got a ticket the other didn’t the 1 that got a ticket stayed away from the ground I imagine that the Vast majority of the Liverpool fans without stayed away from the ground like my friend. I haven’t heard from my other friend if honest but I know his ticket was legitimate I can only imagine what happened if he didn’t get in.

Not all Liverpool fans will have acted correctly, whose fan base ever does? I don’t think anyone has suggested that all behaved but the majority behaved exemplary and were very patient. just think how you would have dealt with being herded into thin lines with thousands of others standing for hours without an update and then getting pepper sprayed for the pleasure when you do eventually get to the gate.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon May 30, 2022 3:10 pm

From Oliver Kay (The Athletic)

French interior minister says 70% of tickets coming into Stade de France were fake.

That would mean 175,000 fake tickets on top of 75,000 attendance

Given that, while held at a checkpoint for an hour, I saw zero evidence of any fake tickets, this sounds like TOTAL bullshit

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon May 30, 2022 3:15 pm

https://twitter.com/jacobsben/status/15 ... WSIqPxB_ZA

The latest version of events from the French authorities doesn’t really seem to tally up.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Mon May 30, 2022 3:45 pm

Looks like there were some significant organisational failings on Saturday. It also seems there was a lot of trouble caused by local youths (St-Denis has a poor reputation for crime). I've seen videos of a lot of these local youths climbing over gates and crashing the stadium; I also believe there were a lot of attacks/muggings after the game.

Easy to blame Liverpool fans who dont have much sympathy currently for their booing of our National Anthem (and even booing the singing of Abide With Me) but best to await enquiry findings. It doesnt to me look too likely that the problems were caused by mass late arrivals from Liverpool supporters - which was the original stadium pronouncement re the match delay.

There are several opposition politicians (left and right) in France suggesting that there were major organisational problems (*) but we can expect the in-power lot to try and minimise any local blame.

* “The image this gives is lamentable and it is also worrying because we see that we are not prepared for events like the Olympic Games,” far-left French politician Jean-Luc Melenchon told BFM-TV.
He denounced “a complete failure of the police strategy… the people were treated as they usually are during any kind of demonstration. We can’t continue like this.”

Far-right leader Marine Le Pen told RTL that the world had seen on Saturday that “France is no longer able to organise major events without things degenerating.”

French newspaper Le Monde commented: “The party that was supposed to precede the final… was spoilt and turned into real chaos.”

“From party to fiasco,” said France’s leading sports daily L’Equipe.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Mon May 30, 2022 6:08 pm

It's mathematically improbable that many Liverpool fans bought tickets and thought they were genuine. Where did they get them? How much did they pay? There was huge news coverage about how few tickets there were, ant's teeth, and suddenly you can get one for 100 quid cash from a mate at work?

It may not be the case that Liverpool fans are entirely to blame of course, but to suggest those storming the stadium and the thousands of extra fans there all thought they had a real ticket is just naive.

Jamesy · Post by **Jamesy** » Mon May 30, 2022 6:26 pm

This massive match was handled appallingly by the authorities. You only have to look at the Liverpool fans being stuck in those tunnels under the motorways for hours as an example.
The only thing that does disturb me is that possibly Scousers created many of the fake tickets knowing that their actions may contribute to their fellow Scousers not getting into the Stadium and chaos could ensue outside. The Real Madrid fans didn’t seem to suffer the same hassle so yes the fake tickets claim from the French being the sole reason wasn’t correct, however it certainly contributed. Somebody somewhere in Merseyside will know who was the source of these tickets.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:04 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 3:10 pm
From Oliver Kay (The Athletic)

French interior minister says 70% of tickets coming into Stade de France were fake.

That would mean 175,000 fake tickets on top of 75,000 attendance

Given that, while held at a checkpoint for an hour, I saw zero evidence of any fake tickets, this sounds like TOTAL bullshit

I think Oliver needs to do his maths again.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:07 pm

It is always the innocent who suffer, it is the "fans" who knowingly bought forgeries knowing they had to get in first to prevent their ticket being rejected who are responsible for a lot of this, it's poor organisation by UEFA and the police that also contributed greatly and it must be questioned if Paris is fit to hold such competitions again depending on the outcome of an independent investigation, but to imply that Liverpool fans are squeaky clean will do nothing towards ensuring such events won't happen again.

Stanbill05 · Post by **Stanbill05** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:15 pm

It was in the news before Saturday that fake tickets were a potential problem. Ticketless fans will also have turned up in numbers I've no doubt. There should be strong criticism of these people as well as the police and the locals and uefa. There are enough surveillance cameras to at least bottom out the numbers. It's unlikely to be solved though now its political and people are on the defensive.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:17 pm

Obviously there’s no blame that can be attributed to Liverpool fans, never have been and never will be.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:18 pm

I'm not blaming anyone for what happened on Saturday, but there certainly was fake tickets in circulation

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-61583680

Nori1958 · Post by **Nori1958** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:23 pm

Stanbill05 wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 7:15 pm
It was in the news before Saturday that fake tickets were a potential problem. Ticketless fans will also have turned up in numbers I've no doubt. There should be strong criticism of these people as well as the police and the locals and uefa. There are enough surveillance cameras to at least bottom out the numbers. It's unlikely to be solved though now its political and people are on the defensive.

All the reporting is one sided, nobody is coming forward to say.. Yes I had a fake ticket.... Or.... Yes I tried to get in without a ticket....surprisingly.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:36 pm

: IMG-20220530-WA0003.jpg (107.72 KiB) Viewed 1663 times

Definitely fake tickets in circulation...

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:49 pm

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 7:04 pm
I think Oliver needs to do his maths again.

No he doesn't.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:56 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SskqKtEFueU
Looking at this video I would have thought the majority of these people jumping the fence are locals.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:58 pm

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 7:04 pm
I think Oliver needs to do his maths again.

Is he not suggesting that there were 75,000 genuine tickets but 70:30 ratio of fake:genuine? That would suggest his given 175,000 fakes.
I'd be amazed if there were even a tenth that many fakes but his maths looks right otherwise.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:59 pm

Tall Paul wrote: ↑
Mon May 30, 2022 7:49 pm
No he doesn't.

Go on then.