If the worst comes to the worst what have we got to show for all the Premier league money ?

[BERNIEU]

A significant amount of the money has funded ageing players contracts ie Long for 10 years, Bardsley , Stephens,JBG and not being savvy in the sale of
certain players before they were ooc-Brady,Hendrick

Brady was never fit enough to play, so a very sensible decision to get him off the wage book, and didn't Hendrick decide to let his contract run down and move on a free to Newcastle?

One was a very sensible decision from Burnley. The other was never an option.

[boatshed bill]

I don't think we should under-estimate the value of the training facilities.
We need commitment to develop, and actually play, young players. Could be worth a fortune if we get it right.

[KRBFC]

2. A much improved academy, which will hopefully bear fruit when the next manager arrives, whenever that may be.
3. Alan Pace

That's about the top and bottom of it.

That Academy will be significantly downgraded to cut costs once we're relegated, Blackburn did the same.

[ClaretPete001]

You keep bringing this up but keep failing to mention, despite having been told several times, of the substantial wage cuts that we have in place throughout the whole playing and non playing staff. Why?

Because I I don't know what the relegation clauses are and I presume neither do you but I could be wrong!

Do you have any information on what they are likely to be?

[KRBFC]

I'm sure CT and others will know more about how Cat 1 works at Academy level but I'm pretty sure there's a minimum number of full time staff needed to be considered cat 1. I'm sure it's expensive to run, not sure the exact yearly cost though.

[Milltown1882]

Because I I don't know what the relegation clauses are and I presume neither do you but I could be wrong!

Do you have any information on what they are likely to be?

We’ve won 3 in 27 in the Prem. Dock their livelihood massively then I’m sure they’re gonna be extremely motivated to win the league.

[Guller Bull]

Not read the whole thread but the season we came up up to the prem were we not close to bankruptcy?

So now we have top quality training facilities
Top Class Players
Enhanced ground improvements
Premier League Status on our history books
Quality Memories

[KRBFC]

You keep bringing this up but keep failing to mention, despite having been told several times, of the substantial wage cuts that we have in place throughout the whole playing and non playing staff. Why?

Is this true? I know the players definitely had relegation clauses under Garlick. Have ALK carried this on with Dyche and his staffs new deals? and the new players brought in?

[boatshed bill]

That Academy will be significantly downgraded to cut costs once we're relegated, Blackburn did the same.

That would be a mistake.

[Jakubclaret]

Not read the whole thread but the season we came up up to the prem were we not close to bankruptcy?

So now we have top quality training facilities
Top Class Players
Enhanced ground improvements
Premier League Status on our history books
Quality Memories

Eerily a similar situation could happen again but in the opposite direction the championship. The prem was the boost to offset/ward that reality away but now only negatives & no positives.

[ClaretPete001]

Is this true? I know the players definitely had relegation clauses under Garlick. Have ALK carried this on with Dyche and his staffs new deals? and the new players brought in?

It probably is true but it is hardly likely to equate to more than half the wage bill. I can't see WW or Cornet signing for Burnley on the premise they will lose half their salary if we are relegated.

I doubt whether the wage savings on all the out of contract players plus the relegation clauses will equate to the £50 million quid lost in TV revenues.

But I don't know the exact figures. If you then add that to the fact that by year 3 we would have lost around £75 million quid in TV money and it starts to limit what contracts you can offer players even if you have the cash to buy them...!

[bfcjg]

I think our reputation has been damaged by the perception that we can just play agricultural football as per Stoke etc, us slightly older Clarets remember brilliant wing play, mobile midfielders etc, we had it for a spell with Defour but not for long enough and didn't enhance our reputation when we should have done.
One positive is we have attracted some foreign fans who might have bought into the underdog tag.

[claret2018]

All the premier league money goes on wages and transfers (and agents).

We’ve done extremely well to get the training ground out of it.

[KRBFC]

It probably is true but it is hardly likely to equate to more than half the wage bill. I can't see WW or Cornet signing for Burnley on the premise they will lose half their salary if we are relegated.

I doubt whether the wage savings on all the out of contract players plus the relegation clauses will equate to the £50 million quid lost in TV revenues.

But I don't know the exact figures. If you then add that to the fact that by year 3 we would have lost around £75 million quid in TV money and it starts to limit what contracts you can offer players even if you have the cash to buy them...!

People are talking like Cornet and Weghorst' wages are gonna half when we are relegated, this isn't a fact and I've seen zero evidence to support this claim.

[Guller Bull]

Eerily a similar situation could happen again but in the opposite direction the championship. The prem was the boost to offset/ward that reality away but now only negatives & no positives.

Yes it could but still couldn’t take away the history or the improvements

[BERNIEU]

I think our reputation has been damaged by the perception that we can just play agricultural football as per Stoke etc, us slightly older Clarets remember brilliant wing play, mobile midfielders etc, we had it for a spell with Defour but not for long enough and didn't enhance our reputation when we should have done.
One positive is we have attracted some foreign fans who might have bought into the underdog tag.

I bet there are A LOT of Championship / League 1 players, who are good enough for the Premier League (don't discount that - many players have made the grade) and see Burnley as a vessel to get there. Why not? What's so absurd to think players will be thinking that?

[ClaretPete001]

I think our reputation has been damaged by the perception that we can just play agricultural football as per Stoke etc, us slightly older Clarets remember brilliant wing play, mobile midfielders etc, we had it for a spell with Defour but not for long enough and didn't enhance our reputation when we should have done.
One positive is we have attracted some foreign fans who might have bought into the underdog tag.

Not sure this is true. Dyche is well respected throughout football and the team have been known for being very effective.

Opposition fans might say things about how we play but the professional pundits have a lot of respect for Burnley FC: players and manager.

[ClaretPete001]

People are talking like Cornet and Weghorst' wages are gonna half when we are relegated, this isn't a fact and I've seen zero evidence to support this claim.

Agreed neither have I. In fact, it's not easy to find anything out about relegation clauses.

[RVclaret]

Is this true? I know the players definitely had relegation clauses under Garlick. Have ALK carried this on with Dyche and his staffs new deals? and the new players brought in?

Without being the agents of the players/staff or account of Burnley I would say it’s highly likely based on the fact relegation is stated as the biggest threat to our financial status on each accounts report, plus ALK’s team being full of experienced financial professionals. As to how much, who knows, but going off other teams I’d say a minimum of 50% cut.

[BERNIEU]

Agreed neither have I. In fact, it's not easy to find anything out about relegation clauses.

Let's say - to balance the books, to balance what they would be like, had we stayed up.

Who would you sell?

[ClaretTony]

Barnfield complex,disabled stands.
Painted walls and LED lights and signage.
Aging squad,overpaid manager and a huge debt.
Not good is it.

If you undervalue what we now have at Gawthorpe to the extent you clearly do, then no, there's little. What we have got is a club far, far different from the one that went up in so many areas.

[Jakubclaret]

Yes it could but still couldn’t take away the history or the improvements

It doesn’t but if you accept a trade off with dark memories replacing good memories then fair enough so be it, it didn’t have to be this way with the way we are going it’s been discussed until death until the cows have found their own way home regarding MG & the lack of investment, by rights we should be established as a PL team maybe not a good 1 but a safe 1.

[bfcjg]

If you undervalue what we now have at Gawthorpe to the extent you clearly do, then no, there's little. What we have got is a club far, far different from the one that went up in so many areas.

I really value the Barnfield complex, it is the shining light of our stay plus the disabled stands,nothing in the post to suggest I don't.

[bfcjg]

Not sure this is true. Dyche is well respected throughout football and the team have been known for being very effective.

Opposition fans might say things about how we play but the professional pundits have a lot of respect for Burnley FC: players and manager.

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2022/01/premi ... team-play/
I feel we need to start playing more football, pundits will obviously praise good play and call us out when we are poor.

[Leisure]

Listen to Kieran Maguire

Why? Just Googled Keiran Maguire - Burnley FC and zilch came up.

[ClaretPete001]

Without being the agents of the players/staff or account of Burnley I would say it’s highly likely based on the fact relegation is stated as the biggest threat to our financial status on each accounts report, plus ALK’s team being full of experienced financial professionals. As to how much, who knows, but going off other teams I’d say a minimum of 50% cut.

So, which other teams have had a 50 per cent cut in wages upon relegation?

[randomclaret2]

if we do get relegated i think a lot of the premier league hanger ons will be off. thank god. they know who they are. constantly on here whinging about anything.

If only we could get back to the 4th Division and then we could get rid of all the Championship and League One hangers on as well

[Leisure]

Why? Just Googled Keiran Maguire - Burnley FC and zilch came up.

Kieran, before someone picks me up!

[ClaretAndJew]

Kieran, before someone picks me up!

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/f ... e-20339418

[Leisure]

Code: Select all

 hi

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/f ... e-20339418

Thanks. He doesn't appear to be too concerned or critical of the deal/risk. But maybe I'm misinterpreting his comments.

[ClaretPete001]

Code: Select all

 hi

Thanks. He doesn't appear to be too concerned or critical of the deal/risk. But maybe I'm misinterpreting his comments.

I think that came out in the spate of articles that came out recently in the Daily Mail, Sun, Independent etc.

Mainly the Daily Mail if I recall.

[RVclaret]

So, which other teams have had a 50 per cent cut in wages upon relegation?

Hull had up to 75% cut if you go off what their manager said at the time. I haven’t gone into each clubs accounts to check. Quick searches online suggest even arsenal, a club with surely zero threat to relegation, have a 25% wage cut in place. So the best I can go off is that and assume our known prudent management has implemented substantial cuts like the account notes suggest. If Dyche is on 80k a week now as reported he might even have > 50% cut to be honest, as even 40k a week at Champ level for a manager is way OTT.

[DCWat]

We’ve certainly not got a big surplus to aid our return to the Premier League, which would have been nice!

There’s a hell of a lot to look back on and be proud of, by contrast, there have been a lot of mistakes made that have played a part in where we find ourselves today.

Garlick’s frugality, for all its merits didn’t help, particularly after finishing in the European places. More of a balance was needed and a willingness to invest in potential - I’m not sure Dyche is blameless here either.

I hope I’m wrong but my current thinking is that it’ll be quite some time before we are back in the big league (if indeed we do get relegated).

Frustratingly, the current trajectory has been obvious for a while but nothing like enough has been done to alter it - the glaringly obvious has been ignored in place of blind faith in the “we’ll be fine as long as Dyche stays”.

I’m not advocating Dyche out, he still has credit for the fantastic ten years he has given us, which for me should not be forgotten. I never expected us to be in the Premier League, never mind be in it for as long as we were and upsetting the apple cart so often along the way.

What we all have to show for it is some fantastic memories, seeing some truly gifted players (some of them wearing our own colours). Priceless.

Just a shame we’re giving in with a whimper.

[Vegas Claret]

one thing we now have that we most certainly didn't until recently is a scouting network abroad. Brentford and Norwich have proved you can get out of the Championship with good cheap buys

[ClaretPete001]

Hull had up to 75% cut if you go off what their manager said at the time. I haven’t gone into each clubs accounts to check. Quick searches online suggest even arsenal, a club with surely zero threat to relegation, have a 25% wage cut in place. So the best I can go off is that and assume our known prudent management has implemented substantial cuts like the account notes suggest. If Dyche is on 80k a week now as reported he might even have > 50% cut to be honest, as even 40k a week at Champ level for a manager is way OTT.

I've looked at Hull's accounts and they didn't have 75 per cent off. That club ended up in a mess and the owners had to sell.

The Arsenal 25 per cent figure came from a Daily Mail article

The article says:

The north London club’s annual wage bill is more than £150million, with the likes of Mesut Ozil and Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang among the best-paid players in England. It is unclear whether the 25 per cent figure is a club-wide stance — but numerous players are known to be on that percentage reduction in the event of relegation. Really?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... eague.html

By the time it gets into the Mirror it reads

Arsenal 'insert relegation clause into players' contracts' amid shock fight against drop

"https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... s-23205365"

As though clubs are able to insert new clauses into contracts after a few bad games.

I can't find anything from a reliable source suggesting a figure for relegation clauses - can anyone?

[boatshed bill]

We are in the record book as a premier league outfit.
Our fans have seen some great performances against some of Europe's best players.
Nothing lasts for ever, unless you have billionaires sponsoring everything

[RVclaret]

I've looked at Hull's accounts and they didn't have 75 per cent off. That club ended up in a mess and the owners had to sell.

The Arsenal 25 per cent figure came from a Daily Mail article

The article says:

The north London club’s annual wage bill is more than £150million, with the likes of Mesut Ozil and Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang among the best-paid players in England. It is unclear whether the 25 per cent figure is a club-wide stance — but numerous players are known to be on that percentage reduction in the event of relegation. Really?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... eague.html

By the time it gets into the Mirror it reads

Arsenal 'insert relegation clause into players' contracts' amid shock fight against drop

"https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... s-23205365"

As though clubs are able to insert new clauses into contracts after a few bad games.

I can't find anything from a reliable source suggesting a figure for relegation clauses - can anyone?

Thanks that’s the article I saw too, so it seems to suggest even Arsenal would have a fair chunk cut.

Here are two more, Norwich and West Brom (both probably similar sized clubs):

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-ci ... ut-1841638

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/fo ... relegated/

Both 50% cuts.

[ClaretPete001]

Thanks that’s the article I saw too, so it seems to suggest even Arsenal would have a fair chunk cut.

Here are two more, Norwich and West Brom (both probably similar sized clubs):

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-ci ... ut-1841638

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/fo ... relegated/

Both 50% cuts.

This is just press speculation quoting articles from tabloid newspapers. The only cited players and amounts are relating to "release clauses", for example,

four players also have release clauses in their deals, including skipper Jonny Evans who will be allowed to leave for just £3million

Seems unlikely to me that players like Cornet and Weghorst would sign contracts that are reduced by half but I can't find anything from a reliable source.

[BERNIEU]

one thing we now have that we most certainly didn't until recently is a scouting network abroad. Brentford and Norwich have proved you can get out of the Championship with good cheap buys

This positivity cannot be tolerated.

[RVclaret]

This is just press speculation quoting articles from tabloid newspapers. The only cited players and amounts are relating to "release clauses", for example,

Seems unlikely to me that players like Cornet and Weghorst would sign contracts that are reduced by half but I can't find anything from a reliable source.

Just for you I did some checking on West Brom and it seems that 50% ‘speculation’ was accurate. Below are accounts from Prem - Champ (where they had 2 seasons before promotion again). As you can see, wages went from 92m to 46m post relegation. Interestingly they did still make net losses those two seasons but I have struggled to find players they sold on for any substantial profit (which is what I’m suggesting we could do with the likes of McNeil/Cornet). For a more detailed thread on them you can search ‘Swiss Ramble West Brom’ into google for a detailed thread on twitter.

[Jakubclaret]

Clear profit to be made on McNeil because he didn’t cost a bean to start with, I don’t think some people realise cornets not even been paid for yet so anything on top will be automatically skimmed & the current form won’t be a queue add both to that to be fair. The money we could realistically achieve from any outgoings won’t be a fraction from we think.

[RVclaret]

Clear profit to be made on McNeil because he didn’t cost a bean to start with, I don’t think some people realise cornets not even been paid for yet so anything on top will be automatically skimmed & the current form won’t be a queue add both to that to be fair. The money we could realistically achieve from any outgoings won’t be a fraction from we think.

As highlighted before, our ‘net spend’ this season is around 5m. So while you may have a point that the whole fee for Cornet hasn’t been paid, that is generally the case for most transfers and we’ll be owed too. So without looking at it from an accounting perspective of amortisation, I think any sale on Cornet / anyone else would result in a profit in the summer.

[bfcjg]

I'm also hoping that we have a new generation of fans,ok a lot of younger fans will not return, but hopefully a good few will be hooked like us older farts were.

[HunterST_BFC]

We are going to stay up.

Just Saying...

[Jakubclaret]

As highlighted before, our ‘net spend’ this season is around 5m. So while you may have a point that the whole fee for Cornet hasn’t been paid, that is generally the case for most transfers and we’ll be owed too. So without looking at it from an accounting perspective of amortisation, I think any sale on Cornet / anyone else would result in a profit in the summer.

I won’t dispute that some form of a profit will be accrued, when any club gets relegated they become desperate to offload high earners, the way the team are going I can’t really see anybody catching anybody's eye, being totally frank everybody (well mostly) are old & knackered the value isn’t there to amass that much money.

[bfcjg]

Pitch is brilliant.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Stadium is up to date with all PL requirements.
The disabled stands were much needed for years and thankfully have been done.
Barnfield/Gawthorpe - far better than many other clubs our size, the training pitches are better than many clubs stadium pitches, see Rovers for example.

Academy - this has been key, it's now at a level that we will start to see better players coming through and we are a more attractive proposition now, partly due to Gawthorpe being modernised.
I'd assume money has been ring fenced for this, to keep it at the same level for a set period of time.
In regards to Rovers academy, Venkys keep putting money into it to keep it at the level it was last I saw anything, plus I'm sure it doesn't breach FFP rules if they do that.

Relegation clauses - they'll still be in place, we won't know the exact amounts but I doubt ALK would do away with them.
I see some are desperate to claim we won't have them anymore, but we will because we aren't one of the top 6 clubs and we aren't as poorly ran financially as other clubs like Sunderland were when they went down, even in league one they were paying Rodwell £70k a week and weren't even playing him.

All in all, the club is better off for this extended stay in the PL, money hasn't been splurged on a replacement CF stand for example, because that's still passing all the relevant H&S checks etc, so if it ain't broke...

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I'm also hoping that we have a new generation of fans,ok a lot of younger fans will not return, but hopefully a good few will be hooked like us older farts were.

An extended stay in the championship would see a reduction in attendances, unless the club is fighting for promotion every year and even that would lose its appeal if promotion didn't happen.

To retain then PL fans the club would need to get promoted again within a couple of seasons.

[RammyClaret61]

For myself. I’ll stick with what was said after wembley v Sheffield Utd. “We’ve made it where I never thought we would in my lifetime. We'll just enjoy it while it lasts.” If it ends, it ends. We go again. UTC.

[FCBurnley]

Not been in person but Barnfield looks a fantastic set up. Don’t know what The Academy costs per annum but do we get value for money in terms of players of value coming thru ?