Summer 2024 Transfer Window Discussion - Rumours and Links welcome

[Mark the Claret]

No one has put in a serious bid yet for O'shea, so people need to relax till/if it happens, as for the rest of the squad being unsettled, I'd imagine half of them will be delighted that they might now get a look in.

[RVclaret]

Can’t see the 100m in sales needed to balance books given Prem revenues last season, but it’ll put us in a very healthy financial position you’d imagine if we get to 130m with a 50% reduction in wages too. All these sales are needed to reduce numbers too. Training has been chaotic with too many players according to a player himself.

[summitclaret]

Was told Saturday we needed to make £100 million this summer in sales to balance the books.

Time to sell Trafford then and not O'Shea. The one position that is simple to fill whichever league we are in next season will be the keeper.

[Chester Perry]

That sounds way over the top to me. We spent about £120m last year, and had more than that in revenue from the Premier League.

This year we'll see about £60m from parachute payments (guesstimate)? I can see needing to clear £60m, but not £100m.

you only over egged the parachutes by 33% which is a lot less than some

Parachute year 1 is around £45m
Parachute year 2 is around £34m

so many make false claims about the sums being paid in parachutes.

[Murger]

Surely with all this revenue from player sales, what’s the reason we couldn’t be debt free?

[Duffer_]

More positively, we have a high quality built-in second/January window with Beyer, Ramsey, Redmond and Tresor coming back into the reckoning at some point.

[CoolClaret]

Can’t see the 100m in sales needed to balance books given Prem revenues last season, but it’ll put us in a very healthy financial position you’d imagine if we get to 130m with a 50% reduction in wages too. All these sales are needed to reduce numbers too. Training has been chaotic with too many players according to a player himself.

Not so sure - we've been playing catchup for a while from the leveraged buyout and then last summer, heavily speculated on talent purchased with loans.

It's certainly not as straight forward as some are making out, lots of hidden fees involved but it's certainly better than not making a profit on the players...

I just feel a lot of it is spinning wheels, it's tough to develop a solid team ethos with a changing team every season. I also wouldn't mind if the sales were going to free the club from debt entirely but fresh debt will be taken out for the board to continue to speculate.

[burnley007]

Have you considered the possibility he may have no desire to come back?

Nope.

[1989_claret]

If we needed to make £100m in savings then why have we signed players? In the real world, if a business looks to cut costs then it puts a freeze on recruitment and doesn't backfill roles. We had a big enough squad to do this.

[NewClaret]

No one has put in a serious bid yet for O'shea, so people need to relax till/if it happens, as for the rest of the squad being unsettled, I'd imagine half of them will be delighted that they might now get a look in.

I don’t think that’s true. I don’t expect him to be in the team on Saturday.

[Chester Perry]

Can’t see the 100m in sales needed to balance books given Prem revenues last season, but it’ll put us in a very healthy financial position you’d imagine if we get to 130m with a 50% reduction in wages too. All these sales are needed to reduce numbers too. Training has been chaotic with too many players according to a player himself.

As always it will come to cash flow and debt obligations

Sales revenue does not equal book profit and much less in regards to immediate incoming cash, a portion of which we will be obliged to pay out immediately on outstand fee payments and sell on obligations for the outgoing players we purchased from UK clubs.

the only way the wage bill is halved is by signing a new team and getting rid of the bigger earners - from what I have seen those coming down from the Prem and staying usually take a 30% - 40% cut if they have that clause in their deal - I have always believed that Weghorst doesn't, he is also probably our biggest earner. I suspect the same applied to Berge.

[RVclaret]

Not so sure - we've been playing catchup for a while from the leveraged buyout and then last summer, heavily speculated on talent purchased with loans.

It's certainly not as straight forward as some are making out, lots of hidden fees involved but it's certainly better than not making a profit on the players...

I just feel a lot of it is spinning wheels, it's tough to develop a solid team ethos with a changing team every season. I also wouldn't mind if the sales were going to free the club from debt entirely but fresh debt will be taken out for the board to continue to speculate.

I mean yeah the owners aren’t billionaires unfortunately so debt is the main source of funding. Garlick and co had no money either and our largest spend was 30m even after European qualification.

I don’t believe they will take on fresh debt this season in the Championship and in fact will likely have reduced it.

[Chester Perry]

Surely with all this revenue from player sales, what’s the reason we couldn’t be debt free?

1) we will not generate enough cash to pay of the debt

2)ALK/VSL have no interest in paying off the debt - we could have pursued that strategy last season if we had wanted to - instead we more than doubled it, possibly even came close to trebling it

[LongsideClaret]

As always it will come to cash flow and debt obligations

Sales revenue does not equal book profit and much less in regards to immediate incoming cash, a portion of which we will be obliged to pay out immediately on outstand fee payments and sell on obligations for the outgoing players we purchased from UK clubs.

the only way the wage bill is halved is by signing a new team and getting rid of the bigger earners - from what I have seen those coming down from the Prem and staying usually take a 30% - 40% cut if they have that clause in their deal - I have always believed that Weghorst doesn't, he is also probably our biggest earner. I suspect the same applied to Berge.

Think that’s right about Berge, believe he was on £70-£80k with no reduction.

[RVclaret]

As always it will come to cash flow and debt obligations

Sales revenue does not equal book profit and much less in regards to immediate incoming cash, a portion of which we will be obliged to pay out immediately on outstand fee payments and sell on obligations for the outgoing players we purchased from UK clubs.

the only way the wage bill is halved is by signing a new team and getting rid of the bigger earners - from what I have seen those coming down from the Prem and staying usually take a 30% - 40% cut if they have that clause in their deal - I have always believed that Weghorst doesn't, he is also probably our biggest earner. I suspect the same applied to Berge.

Matt Williams told someone at a breakfast meeting the squad had 50% pay cuts. Obv an individual here or there may be different.

Appreciate the booking of sales revenue comments but a fair chunk of it was likely funded out of last seasons £130-135m (estimate) revenues and is already paid off.

[LongsideClaret]

1) we will not generate enough cash to pay of the debt

2)ALK/VSL have no interest in paying off the debt - we could have pursued that strategy last season if we had wanted to - instead we more than doubled it, possibly even came close to trebling it

Agreed, using other people’s money (debt) to buy assets (players) and grow them in value is clearly the strategy.

[Walt]

Surely they want to reduce the debt at some point? In my mind that's the only way they see a significant return. Sure we're currently selling most players at a profit and they may well take some of that out of the club.

If/when they sell they club it has little, or no debt, then that's where they reap the financial rewards. Be a very long way down the road for that to happen if there's no appetite to reduce it.

Sorry, realise I've gone off topic here.

[BabylonClaret]

Anass, Anass Zaroury runs down the wing for Lens

Lens have a brilliant club song - Les Corons (all about Northern coal miners)

[NewClaret]

you only over egged the parachutes by 33% which is a lot less than some

Parachute year 1 is around £45m
Parachute year 2 is around £34m

so many make false claims about the sums being paid in parachutes.

I thought you had to be in the Premier League for more than one season to get the second year?

[Spijed]

The panic by some is a bit weird.

We have sold 2 players who would have been first team starters up to now. Every single person knew the squad was too big and we had to lose a fairly high number of them. The idea we can just sell the ones a poster doesn't like and bring in good money while keeping the top ones in demand probably happens on some football manager game on the Xbox but doesn't in the real world.

Panic, or a realistic view that if we are not careful we could miss out on promotion if we weaken the squad too much.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Panic, or a realistic view that if we are not careful we could miss out on promotion if we weaken the squad too much.

Panic quite clearly

[Socrates]

Modern football is utterly rubbish.

Twitter dweebs leaking transfer stuff, talk constantly about accounts rather than players and tactics, everybody desperate to post the news first for likes and clicks and views.

All a load of sh*te.

[RVclaret]

I thought you had to be in the Premier League for more than one season to get the second year?

3rd year

[Chester Perry]

I mean yeah the owners aren’t billionaires unfortunately so debt is the main source of funding. Garlick and co had no money either and our largest spend was 30m even after European qualification.

I don’t believe they will take on fresh debt this season in the Championship and in fact will likely have reduced it.

there is much more wealth in this ownership group than the previous one - they have chosen to not use any of it to bolster the club either in loans or via capital injection, every member of the previous ownership group did that at some point.

One of the things qualification for Europe did (in a competition that provided peanuts for income, was put us under the bounds of UEFA FFP - we didn't breach it (we never have in the PL of EFL either) but we were edging ever closer - I have banged on about it a lot in regards to the Garlick years, but the total cost of football to revenue was getting quite dangerous and would fail UEFA's newly imposed squad cost rules. Rules which the Premier League are due to implement next season and with the EFL likely to follow.

As for debt reduction this season, I believe that will only occur if the terms of the loan (or loans, I think there are two with MGG) demand it or there is spike in the interest rate. I strongly doubt there will be a refinance available before we look certain for a promotion.

[NewClaret]

Surely they want to reduce the debt at some point? In my mind that's the only way they see a significant return. Sure we're currently selling most players at a profit and they may well take some of that out of the club.

If/when they sell they club it has little, or no debt, then that's where they reap the financial rewards. Be a very long way down the road for that to happen if there's no appetite to reduce it.

Sorry, realise I've gone off topic here.

Unfortunately that’s not true Walt, people will buy businesses with debt because it reduces their own initial outlay to buy the club.

I’m not expecting any debt reduction any time soon.

[NewClaret]

3rd year

???

[Jakubclaret]

Jesus wept!

All this might be normal to you but let me reassure you to some people it sure as hell isn’t far from it.

[Chester Perry]

???

1 year in th ePL gives you 2 years of parachutes
2 or more consecutive years in the PL gives you 3 years of parachutes

[claretonthecoast1882]

All this might be normal to you but let me reassure you to some people it sure as hell isn’t far from it.

love the idea that there are others out there with the same mindset as you.

Actually no scrap that I don't

[Tricky Trevor]

Lens have a brilliant club song - Les Corons (all about Northern coal miners)

Knowing that I guess you’ll know that their red and gold colours symbolise the blood needed to get the gold(coal) out of the mines. My French team.

[NewClaret]

1 year in th ePL gives you 2 years of parachutes
2 or more consecutive years in the PL gives you 3 years of parachutes

Got you. Thanks RV/CP.

Quite a relief. I thought it was this year or we were shot.

[Vegas Claret]

Modern football is utterly rubbish.

Twitter dweebs leaking transfer stuff, talk constantly about accounts rather than players and tactics, everybody desperate to post the news first for likes and clicks and views.

All a load of sh*te.

don't go on twitter then

[mdd2]

Rumours we are doubling our money on Zaroury in at E 4million out to Lens for E9million
The £100 million is it sales or profit?. If the former is it VK £10, Muric £11, Berge £25 Odobert £30 Twine £3 Zaroury £8 and then there is possible fees for JBG and the other two keepers as well as loan fees for Massengo and Churlinov-and maybe Benson leaving? and I forgot Al-Dakhil

[NewClaret]

Thought Sarmiento was to replace Anass. I was told he was leaving but also told other things that Tony then confirmed were incorrect so started to question it.

I suppose if Sarmiento is to replace Anass I feel slightly better about it.

Would still like to keep Benson.

[Rick_Muller]

Would it kill people to keep the financial woes arguments out of the transfer speculation thread and allow us to concentrate on players coming and going. If we want to know about the finances we’ll go to that thread instead to be patronised.

[NewClaret]

Rumours we are doubling our money on Zaroury in at E 4million out to Lens for E9million
The £100 million is it sales or profit?. If the former is it VK £10, Muric £11, Berge £25 Odobert £30 Twine £3 Zaroury £8 and then there is possible fees for JBG and the other two keepers as well as loan fees for Massengo and Churlinov-and maybe Benson leaving? and I forgot Al-Dakhil

I’ll be surprised if we make net £100m sales. We’ll get nowhere near that in profit.

There will be other incomings.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Would it kill people to keep the financial woes arguments out of the transfer speculation thread and allow us to concentrate on players coming and going. If we want to know about the finances we’ll go to that thread instead to be patronised.

It would certainly kill some, I don't think they know how tiresome it is. Even more so when they have no financial background and quite often get things wrong but then it is passed off as fact.

I don't imagine people go on the money threads and post transfer rumours shame it doesn't work both ways.

[NewClaret]

Would it kill people to keep the financial woes arguments out of the transfer speculation thread and allow us to concentrate on players coming and going. If we want to know about the finances we’ll go to that thread instead to be patronised.

Fair point. I have contributed to a couple, my apologies.

[Row x]

Would it kill people to keep the financial woes arguments out of the transfer speculation thread and allow us to concentrate on players coming and going. If we want to know about the finances we’ll go to that thread instead to be patronised.

Have you got your tin hat handy?

[CoolClaret]

I mean yeah the owners aren’t billionaires unfortunately so debt is the main source of funding. Garlick and co had no money either and our largest spend was 30m even after European qualification.

I don’t believe they will take on fresh debt this season in the Championship and in fact will likely have reduced it.

This is fine when it's 'manageable' and preferably we commit quite a bit of liquid upfront - I think the balance is too skewed in the direction of risk right now which the clubs' accounts also suggested.

[HollandsPies]

Notts Forrest supporting friend of mine reckoning on we've signed Worral.
He's not a wum either.

[Enola Gay]

Have you considered the possibility he may have no desire to come back?

Or that Parker simply might not fancy him.

He did OK for us last season but it seemed to be moments rather than consistent performances and I've got to say I didn't see a must-sign player in there. And if he did come in it'd likely knock Benson a step closer to the exit.

[Woodleyclaret]

Joe Worral is an excellent signing bags of experience and a good age to add to our squad

[HollandsPies]

He ain't Prem standard though, Woodley.
Solid Championship player - that's about it I reckon.

[MDWat]

Assuming that all the suggested outgoings are confirmed, and that Worrall is definitely coming in, that still leaves us with a potential match day squad of the following, when fit:

Trafford
Roberts Worrall Esteve Pires
Cullen Brownhill
Koleosho Tresor Amdouni
Foster

Hladky, Humphreys, Egan-Riley, Vitinho, Massengo, Ramsey, Redmond, Hountondji, Rodriguez

That doesn’t include Green, Beyer, Ekdal, Delcroix or Agyei.

Would suggest we’ll look to get 3-4 more in (Worrall, plus I assume a CM, wide player and forward player, and loan a couple more on top out).

I’d argue there’s no squad anywhere near as good as that, or with as much depth.

That means the following will have left:
Muric (£10m)
O’Shea (£15m)
JBG (assume free)
Benson (£7m)
Berge (£25m)
Zaroury (£7.5m)
Al-Dakhil (£10m)
Weghorst (£2.5m?)
McNally (£2m)
Obafemi (nominal)
Odobert (£30m)

If everything is met, c.£110m in sales and a very strong squad left.

[IanMcL]

All these ins amd outs are disruptive to the squad and the team. Not good unless those that remain stay fit and the newbies come in over time.

[Enola Gay]

With the low figure of 15m there must be a release clause In his contract

Is £15m that low for someone with - let's be honest - one half-decent season in the PL under his belt?

As said by others at Christmas last season a lot of people would have piggybacked him to Wolves.

[CrosspoolClarets]

He ain't Prem standard though, Woodley.
Solid Championship player - that's about it I reckon.

Yes but competent enough to fill in now and then.

[Row x]

He ain't Prem standard though, Woodley.
Solid Championship player - that's about it I reckon.

Which premier league standard players are willing to come to Burnley this season?

[warksclaret]

Rumours we are doubling our money on Zaroury in at E 4million out to Lens for E9million
The £100 million is it sales or profit?. If the former is it VK £10, Muric £11, Berge £25 Odobert £30 Twine £3 Zaroury £8 and then there is possible fees for JBG and the other two keepers as well as loan fees for Massengo and Churlinov-and maybe Benson leaving? and I forgot Al-Dakhil

Had Zarourry played for us in the PL, and showed the form Odobert showed he could have been going for £25-£30m. Shows what the PL can do as a shop window, as evidenced by Muric's involvement in the latter part of the season