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ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:50 pm
by ClaretTony
Back to 1991 today and not a happy trip to Scarborough
See link
https://www.uptheclarets.com/burnley-fa ... franks-out
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:26 pm
by Sausage
I must have been one of the few who wasn't shouting 'Casper Out' at the end of the match, though that was undoubtedly because I left after 60 mins and sat on the coach while the heavens opened.
One of the most inept 60/90mins I've ever seen from a Clarets side, and that includes the 86/87 season.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:30 pm
by fidelcastro
Cracking stadium was Scarborough.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:42 pm
by gawthorpe_view
fidelcastro wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:30 pm
Cracking stadium was Scarborough.
Oven ready you might say.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:47 pm
by Woodleyclaret
A great player was Frank Casper but like a lot of great players never a manager
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:54 pm
by gawthorpe_view
But we won the next game...
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:55 pm
by fidelcastro
gawthorpe_view wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:54 pm
But we won the next game...
And the next and the next and the next... and so on
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:08 pm
by gawthorpe_view
fidelcastro wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:55 pm
And the next and the next and the next... and so on
It turned out to be quite a season.
Can't wait for the next episode.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:10 pm
by fidelcastro
gawthorpe_view wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:08 pm
It turned out to be quite a season.
Can't wait for the next episode.
Don't spoil it for the younger readers.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:10 pm
by ClaretTony
Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:47 pm
A great player was Frank Casper but like a lot of great players never a manager
Top bloke, great player for us, outstanding coach I'm told but it just didn't quite work for him as a manager despite the players having so much respect for him.
But, as sausage said, this was one horrible performance.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:14 pm
by tiger76
Blimey! I knew it had been bad, but I didn't realise we'd be so shambolic against 10 men, no wonder patience was wearing thin and the inevitable happened.
Good informative and amusing article as ever CT, and I dread to imagine how UTC would have reacted if it has existed in those dark days, I know it probably bores the pants off the younger readers, but it's always worth remembering exactly just how bad things were as a BFC fan back then, thankfully the debacle at Scarborough proved the nadir that led to happier times.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:23 pm
by fidelcastro
tiger76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:14 pm
Blimey! I knew it had been bad, but I didn't realise we'd be so shambolic against 10 men, no wonder patience was wearing thin and the inevitable happened.
Good informative and amusing article as ever CT, and I dread to imagine how UTC would have reacted if it has existed in those dark days, I know it probably bores the pants off the younger readers, but it's always worth remembering exactly just how bad things were as a BFC fan back then, thankfully the debacle at Scarborough proved the nadir that led to happier times.
Obviously, we've had our bumps in the road since, but it's fair to say that things never got as bad as this again.
Thank God!
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:24 pm
by ClaretTony
tiger76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:14 pm
Blimey! I knew it had been bad, but I didn't realise we'd be so shambolic against 10 men, no wonder patience was wearing thin and the inevitable happened.
Horrible team were Scarborough even though Warnock had gone by then. But we were just downright shocking that day, probably the first time in the season that we came off admitting we'd deserved to be beaten.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:27 pm
by elwaclaret
It is a day I remember well. Losing to Scarborough was a tough one to take, even with the club counting every penny. Frank’s office was basically a chair, desk, filing cabinets and meeting table at the top of the famous steep stairs to the Bob Lord stand offices.
I was amazed to see the office that a Martin Buchan got in comparison; ultra modern sparkly black with a well stocked fridge an all.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:27 pm
by fidelcastro
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:24 pm
Horrible team were Scarborough even though Warnock had gone by then. But we were just downright shocking that day, probably the first time in the season that we came off admitting we'd deserved to be beaten.
Wasn't Oghani (by then a Scarborough player) sent off there against us, a couple of years previously?
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:40 pm
by ClaretTony
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:27 pm
It is a day I remember well. Losing to Scarborough was a tough one to take, even with the club counting every penny. Frank’s office was basically a chair, desk, filing cabinets and meeting table at the top of the famous steep stairs to the Bob Lord stand offices.
I was amazed to see the office that a Martin Buchan got in comparison; ultra modern sparkly black with a well stocked fridge an all.
Buchan had the manager's office moved from the Bob Lord to above the old club shop and it remained there. It was hardly ultra modern though.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:43 pm
by elwaclaret
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:40 pm
Buchan had the manager's office moved from the Bob Lord to above the old club shop and it remained there. It was hardly ultra modern though.
Possibly mis remembering, but certainly it was a massive upgrade on what Frank had.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:44 pm
by ClaretTony
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:43 pm
Possibly mis remembering, but certainly it was a massive upgrade on what Frank had.
Frank was in the same office as Buchan when he came back. Prior to Buchan it was in the Bob Lord where the top of the lift shaft is now.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:35 pm
by tiger76
fidelcastro wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:23 pm
Obviously, we've had our bumps in the road since, but it's fair to say that things never got as bad as this again.
Thank God!
Jimmy Mullen was good, but calling him God is a bit of a stretch.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:38 pm
by fidelcastro
tiger76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:35 pm
Jimmy Mullen was good, but calling him God is a bit of a stretch.
It felt like he was for a while!
Sadly, he lost the plot a few years later, but his name in Burnley folklore is secure.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:47 pm
by tiger76
fidelcastro wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:38 pm
It felt like he was for a while!
Sadly, he lost the plot a few years later, but his name in Burnley folklore is secure.
Definitely the right man at the right time for us, when it seemed we'd never escape from Division 4.
And the nights at Plymouth & York will live long in the memory, not to mention the small matter of our Wembley triumph over Stockport.
Casper did improve us, and he came close to getting us up, but it needed Jimmy to come in and get us properly motoring again.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:06 pm
by fidelcastro
tiger76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:47 pm
Definitely the right man at the right time for us, when it seemed we'd never escape from Division 4.
And the nights at Plymouth & York will live long in the memory, not to mention the small matter of our Wembley triumph over Stockport.
Casper did improve us, and he came close to getting us up, but it needed Jimmy to come in and get us properly motoring again.
Yes, parallels with Cotterill being replaced by Coyle can be drawn in that respect.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:35 pm
by elwaclaret
tiger76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:47 pm
Definitely the right man at the right time for us, when it seemed we'd never escape from Division 4.
And the nights at Plymouth & York will live long in the memory, not to mention the small matter of our Wembley triumph over Stockport.
Casper did improve us, and he came close to getting us up, but it needed Jimmy to come in and get us properly motoring again.
Think that is a tad unfair. It is equivalent to crediting Frank Casper with the Tottenham cup tie, it was Brian Miller’s side with the kick up the arse of Miller’s sacking. Jimmy Mullen had been assistant and stepped up, so he knew the players and had a team generally, but deserves respect for the way he took up the baton, until the pressure took its toll.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:56 pm
by ClaretTony
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:35 pm
until the pressure took its toll.
I don't think it was pressure
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:15 pm
by elwaclaret
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:56 pm
I don't think it was pressure
At least 40%
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:18 pm
by djemba-djemba
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:15 pm
At least 40%
If alluding to issues with drink, then it is fair to suggest that pressure may very well lead a person down that road.
Cut the man some slack after all he did for us.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:25 pm
by elwaclaret
djemba-djemba wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:18 pm
If alluding to issues with drink, then it is fair to suggest that pressure may very well lead a person down that road.
Cut the man some slack after all he did for us.
I have no reason to cut him some slack, I have never criticised him for his time with us, never chanted for him to go or criticised him. However not admitting he was often drunk is not cutting slack it is ignoring the truth, his drinking became a problem.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:37 pm
by bfcjg
I was so sad that day and left before the end and sat in the car to get dry, Casper was a hero and I couldn't stand the dogs abuse he was getting.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:01 pm
by ClaretTony
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:15 pm
At least 40%
0%
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:02 pm
by ClaretTony
bfcjg wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:37 pm
I was so sad that day and left before the end and sat in the car to get dry, Casper was a hero and I couldn't stand the dogs abuse he was getting.
Similarly Brian Laws who was a huge favourite as a player
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:22 pm
by fidelcastro
I think the 40% figure was a reference to the strength of the whiskey
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:56 pm
by Bordeauxclaret
fidelcastro wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:06 pm
Yes, parallels with Cotterill being replaced by Coyle can be drawn in that respect.
Absolutely, both sackings and the subsequent appointments breathed life into the club and gave us some outstanding times and memories.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:32 pm
by Ric_C
I remember walking down the street in Scarborough after the game and saw Steve Davis with his head down looking completely disconsolate.
After the good season before I remember thinking to myself if we were ever going to get out of this division. Just shows you that football can change in an instant.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:56 am
by Garnerssoap
Met Frank Casper and his lad in la manga in about 88. Nice people
Got told to **** off by The other Frank for chanting Teasdale out at him in the Fence gate when he popped his head through from the wedding bit to check the scores on motd.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:43 am
by bfcjg
Teasdale once said in an interview about his time as chairman that a lot of children in the Burnley area thought he was actually called Teasdale Out.....Or words to that effect.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:47 pm
by ClaretTony
Garnerssoap wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:56 am
Met Frank Casper and his lad in la manga in about 88. Nice people
Got told to **** off by The other Frank for chanting Teasdale out at him in the Fence gate when he popped his head through from the wedding bit to check the scores on motd.
Frank C is a good bloke, Frank T became full of self importance with being chairman meaning more to him than the club itself.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:48 pm
by Petersa
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:02 pm
Similarly Brian Laws who was a huge favourite as a player
Absolutely right CT. Two memories of the 81/82 promotion season being Swindon away when he played the last quarter at centre half when Vince Overson had to go off injured...he virtually put his life on the line against Ken Beamish to secure a win and at Southend after the match that saw us up there was noone on this planet happier than Brian (perhaps me I suppose!)
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:01 pm
by Quickenthetempo
bfcjg wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:43 am
Teasdale once said in an interview about his time as chairman that a lot of children in the Burnley area thought he was actually called Teasdale Out.....Or words to that effect.
I did as an 11yr old.
Teaadale out and Casper to Ewood seemed to be sung on repeat at home games.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:31 pm
by andyh
I’m biased cos Frank was my fav player. But thought he was unlucky in both his stints as manager.
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:55 pm
by Culmclaret
Petersa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:48 pm
Absolutely right CT. Two memories of the 81/82 promotion season being Swindon away when he played the last quarter at centre half when Vince Overson had to go off injured...he virtually put his life on the line against Ken Beamish to secure a win and at Southend after the match that saw us up there was noone on this planet happier than Brian (perhaps me I suppose!)
That Swindon game was heroic because the team was ravaged by illness. Laws was a real star that day and I can still see in my mind’s eye Tommy Cassidy’s sublime chip floating past the despairing grasp of Kenny Allen for the winner!
Re: ARTICLE: Burnley fans want both Franks Out
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:09 pm
by fidelcastro
andyh wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:31 pm
I’m biased cos Frank was my fav player. But thought he was unlucky in both his stints as manager.
I'm too young to remember his first spell as manager, but how was he unlucky in his second?