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Yes, I'm sure our rat infested, overcrowded, suicide prevalent jails will be a real holiday home.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:40 amI'm not sure jail time in this country would be a deterrent I'd say a reward over there it would probably constitute punishment.
You should be asking yourself why there are crowded therein lies the answer.Stevie Morgan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:07 amYes, I'm sure our rat infested, overcrowded, suicide prevalent jails will be a real holiday home.
Pr!ck
I know why they are crowded. Due to our failed criminal justice approach over many decades, chronic mismanagement, structural causes of crime and desperation of successive governments to appear "tough" to the media, regardless of the evidence.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:16 amYou should be asking yourself why there are crowded therein lies the answer.
Just to back up this, and the last two paragraphs in particular, we are so much more aware of the impact of past trauma on someone’s likelihood of offending these days. ACEs (adverse childhood experiences) are recognised as a fundamental driver, and while one poster may have scoffed at this and called it lily-livered, the moves towards a trauma informed model is vital to dealing with the mess we now have. It’s all very well talking about getting tough on crime and ASB, but really that’s just a sticking plaster dealing with the symptoms until we properly look at addressing the cause.BigGaz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 11:12 amThere are many factors Jakub.
It sounds condescending and I really don't mean it this way but you have a privilege that you don't really think about. I do too. We all do.
We're privileged because
- we were taught the difference between right and wrong
- we were brought up in a orthodox family unit with responsible, present parents
- we have a reasonable grasp on our mental health that has been diagnosed and medicated if necessary
- we feel like we have the ability to make a choice between doing something right and wrong
- we were taught to respect and empathise, maybe even care and love our peers and community, so upsetting and hurting people within it would upset you too, deterring you from doing so.
- we are intellectually capable, and if we weren't we'd have been given the right amount of support to guide us down the right path.
There are many factors besides this, but there are some big ones (you wouldn't believe how much of a correlation having the absence of a stable family background dictates your likelihood of going to prison, and reoffending)
If you are someone adversely affected by one or multiple of these factors then your likelihood of prison increases, and no matter what someone has done to get themselves back in chokey, the underlying reason for their reoffending will be linked to the above.
Source: My Mrs, a criminal psychologist and that won her doctorate via research on domestic abuse.
A very good friend of mine was a PO at Strange ways.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:40 amI'm not sure jail time in this country would be a deterrent I'd say a reward over there it would probably constitute punishment.
I have known a couple of people who served time… both said the weeks in Remand were the hard yards and once they were sentenced to open prison they were amazed how easily the time passed.The Project wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:39 pmA very good friend of mine was a PO at Strange ways.
Believe me, the myth of "holiday camp" couldn't be further from the truth.
I also know people who have served time and they did not see it as some reward.
I'm my line of work I've worked with people who have a long standing trauma response after spending time in UK prisons. Have you seen the TV series 'Time'? It's fictional but paints a pretty horrifying picture of prisons in the UK. Doesn't strike me as a reward.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:40 amI'm not sure jail time in this country would be a deterrent I'd say a reward over there it would probably constitute punishment.
One of the people i know served 15 years.elwaclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:46 pmI have known a couple of people who served time… both said the weeks in Remand were the hard yards and once they were sentenced to open prison they were amazed how easily the time passed.
Suppose it depends on the crime, I suspect it is far harder doing time for violent crime than blue collar: both those I knew were done for fraud… one was a smart arse trying to beat the system and the other was trapped trying to please his employer and was caught in a blind alley. The first never learnt, the second lost his career; one he’d worked years to achieve.The Project wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:51 pmOne of the people i know served 15 years.
Hated every moment. Only got easier in the last 2 years when moved to an open - semi open prison.
Yep, they will have been category D prisoners - non violent & not drug related, first time offenders.elwaclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:58 pmSuppose it depends on the crime, I suspect it is far harder doing time for violent crime than blue collar: both those I knew were done for fraud… one was a smart arse trying to beat the system and the other was trapped trying to please his employer and was caught in a blind alley. The first never learnt, the second lost his career; one he’d worked years to achieve.
Some people will like it some people won't. Like I've said before it can't all be that bad some people are in & out all the time & if was that unbearable that clearly wouldn't be the case.ArmchairDetective wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:51 pmI'm my line of work I've worked with people who have a long standing trauma response after spending time in UK prisons. Have you seen the TV series 'Time'? It's fictional but paints a pretty horrifying picture of prisons in the UK. Doesn't strike me as a reward.
Anyway, back to the topic. Glad they've been punished. Horrible and unacceptable scenes at that game.
Not meaning to be intentionally pedantic , but , with respect I’d imagine your Mrs “ earned” her doctorate (through research , dedication,hard work etc ) rather than “ won it” ( eg in a raffle , tombola or on a scratch card )BigGaz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 11:12 amThere are many factors Jakub.
It sounds condescending and I really don't mean it this way but you have a privilege that you don't really think about. I do too. We all do.
We're privileged because
- we were taught the difference between right and wrong
- we were brought up in a orthodox family unit with responsible, present parents
- we have a reasonable grasp on our mental health that has been diagnosed and medicated if necessary
- we feel like we have the ability to make a choice between doing something right and wrong
- we were taught to respect and empathise, maybe even care and love our peers and community, so upsetting and hurting people within it would upset you too, deterring you from doing so.
- we are intellectually capable, and if we weren't we'd have been given the right amount of support to guide us down the right path.
There are many factors besides this, but there are some big ones (you wouldn't believe how much of a correlation having the absence of a stable family background dictates your likelihood of going to prison, and reoffending)
If you are someone adversely affected by one or multiple of these factors then your likelihood of prison increases, and no matter what someone has done to get themselves back in chokey, the underlying reason for their reoffending will be linked to the above.
Source: My Mrs, a criminal psychologist and that won her doctorate via research on domestic abuse.
