Valencia fans racism verdict

[Vegas Claret]

Off to jail they go - let's hope this punishment is implemented more across the World
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/ ... cial-abuse

[ecc]

It has to be. What he has suffered on numerous occasions is totally unacceptable.

There's a dichotomy between FIFA and UEFA's permanent stance on racism and the actions taken against racists present in grounds. I realise these bodies have no judicial power in their member countries but it's up to the state prosecution systems to take radical action.

[Tricky Trevor]

I was at the game and the second half was a nightmare. Besides when Vini Jr had the game stopped there was other stuff going on in game and in crowd.
Fair play to the Valencia players for supporting Vini Jr. at the time.

[Damo]

3 year stadium ban reduced to 2 years.
That's an absolute joke.
Should be a lifetime ban if the Spanish FA were really committed to tackling the issue they have.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Shame that a life ban from football wasn't given but good to see some jail time given.

Hopefully other countries including ours start to punish these dicks properly

[Jakubclaret]

I'm not sure jail time in this country would be a deterrent I'd say a reward over there it would probably constitute punishment.

[Stevie Morgan]

I'm not sure jail time in this country would be a deterrent I'd say a reward over there it would probably constitute punishment.

Yes, I'm sure our rat infested, overcrowded, suicide prevalent jails will be a real holiday home.

Pr!ck

[Jakubclaret]

Yes, I'm sure our rat infested, overcrowded, suicide prevalent jails will be a real holiday home.

Pr!ck

You should be asking yourself why there are crowded therein lies the answer.

[Stevie Morgan]

You should be asking yourself why there are crowded therein lies the answer.

I know why they are crowded. Due to our failed criminal justice approach over many decades, chronic mismanagement, structural causes of crime and desperation of successive governments to appear "tough" to the media, regardless of the evidence.

Don't bother to reply tho with whatever garbled nonsense you trot out, I won't be entering a debate with you. Have a good day.

[Jakubclaret]

I asked a simple question awhile ago well actually that's not true I asked 2 questions nobody seemed to know the answers to or was unwilling to answer them so I'll try again. If prisons are such bad places to be in why do some people repeat offend continously? Surely it's the last place you would want to go after already experiencing something so awful, when I visit somewhere unpleasant I damn make sure I don't go there again & why are there so crowded if the places are so unpleasant?

[BigGaz]

There are many factors Jakub.

It sounds condescending and I really don't mean it this way but you have a privilege that you don't really think about. I do too. We all do.

We're privileged because

- we were taught the difference between right and wrong
- we were brought up in a orthodox family unit with responsible, present parents
- we have a reasonable grasp on our mental health that has been diagnosed and medicated if necessary
- we feel like we have the ability to make a choice between doing something right and wrong
- we were taught to respect and empathise, maybe even care and love our peers and community, so upsetting and hurting people within it would upset you too, deterring you from doing so.
- we are intellectually capable, and if we weren't we'd have been given the right amount of support to guide us down the right path.

There are many factors besides this, but there are some big ones (you wouldn't believe how much of a correlation having the absence of a stable family background dictates your likelihood of going to prison, and reoffending)

If you are someone adversely affected by one or multiple of these factors then your likelihood of prison increases, and no matter what someone has done to get themselves back in chokey, the underlying reason for their reoffending will be linked to the above.

Source: My Mrs, a criminal psychologist and that won her doctorate via research on domestic abuse.

[yTib]

jakub claims he wants to go to jail.

jakub isn't in jail.

[RicardoMontalban]

There are many factors Jakub.

It sounds condescending and I really don't mean it this way but you have a privilege that you don't really think about. I do too. We all do.

We're privileged because

- we were taught the difference between right and wrong
- we were brought up in a orthodox family unit with responsible, present parents
- we have a reasonable grasp on our mental health that has been diagnosed and medicated if necessary
- we feel like we have the ability to make a choice between doing something right and wrong
- we were taught to respect and empathise, maybe even care and love our peers and community, so upsetting and hurting people within it would upset you too, deterring you from doing so.
- we are intellectually capable, and if we weren't we'd have been given the right amount of support to guide us down the right path.

There are many factors besides this, but there are some big ones (you wouldn't believe how much of a correlation having the absence of a stable family background dictates your likelihood of going to prison, and reoffending)

If you are someone adversely affected by one or multiple of these factors then your likelihood of prison increases, and no matter what someone has done to get themselves back in chokey, the underlying reason for their reoffending will be linked to the above.

Source: My Mrs, a criminal psychologist and that won her doctorate via research on domestic abuse.

Just to back up this, and the last two paragraphs in particular, we are so much more aware of the impact of past trauma on someone’s likelihood of offending these days. ACEs (adverse childhood experiences) are recognised as a fundamental driver, and while one poster may have scoffed at this and called it lily-livered, the moves towards a trauma informed model is vital to dealing with the mess we now have. It’s all very well talking about getting tough on crime and ASB, but really that’s just a sticking plaster dealing with the symptoms until we properly look at addressing the cause.

[The Project]

I'm not sure jail time in this country would be a deterrent I'd say a reward over there it would probably constitute punishment.

A very good friend of mine was a PO at Strange ways.
Believe me, the myth of "holiday camp" couldn't be further from the truth.

I also know people who have served time and they did not see it as some reward.

[elwaclaret]

A very good friend of mine was a PO at Strange ways.
Believe me, the myth of "holiday camp" couldn't be further from the truth.

I also know people who have served time and they did not see it as some reward.

I have known a couple of people who served time… both said the weeks in Remand were the hard yards and once they were sentenced to open prison they were amazed how easily the time passed.

[ArmchairDetective]

I'm not sure jail time in this country would be a deterrent I'd say a reward over there it would probably constitute punishment.

I'm my line of work I've worked with people who have a long standing trauma response after spending time in UK prisons. Have you seen the TV series 'Time'? It's fictional but paints a pretty horrifying picture of prisons in the UK. Doesn't strike me as a reward.

Anyway, back to the topic. Glad they've been punished. Horrible and unacceptable scenes at that game.

[The Project]

I have known a couple of people who served time… both said the weeks in Remand were the hard yards and once they were sentenced to open prison they were amazed how easily the time passed.

One of the people i know served 15 years.

Hated every moment. Only got easier in the last 2 years when moved to an open - semi open prison.

Open prison is much different to normal.

[elwaclaret]

One of the people i know served 15 years.

Hated every moment. Only got easier in the last 2 years when moved to an open - semi open prison.

Suppose it depends on the crime, I suspect it is far harder doing time for violent crime than blue collar: both those I knew were done for fraud… one was a smart arse trying to beat the system and the other was trapped trying to please his employer and was caught in a blind alley. The first never learnt, the second lost his career; one he’d worked years to achieve.

[The Project]

Suppose it depends on the crime, I suspect it is far harder doing time for violent crime than blue collar: both those I knew were done for fraud… one was a smart arse trying to beat the system and the other was trapped trying to please his employer and was caught in a blind alley. The first never learnt, the second lost his career; one he’d worked years to achieve.

Yep, they will have been category D prisoners - non violent & not drug related, first time offenders.

[Jakubclaret]

I'm my line of work I've worked with people who have a long standing trauma response after spending time in UK prisons. Have you seen the TV series 'Time'? It's fictional but paints a pretty horrifying picture of prisons in the UK. Doesn't strike me as a reward.

Anyway, back to the topic. Glad they've been punished. Horrible and unacceptable scenes at that game.

Some people will like it some people won't. Like I've said before it can't all be that bad some people are in & out all the time & if was that unbearable that clearly wouldn't be the case.

[bfcjg]

Back on topic, custodial sentences for such neanderthals is fine. However, something needs to be done to address the deep rooted hatred/ignorance of some people, be that education,counselling or something else but it has to be addressed.

[Darnhill Claret]

Are they actually doing time yet? I believe they are appealing the sentence and asking for the jail time to be suspended. If this has been reported accurately, I think there is a fair chance they will be remanded (but maybe not in prison) until their appeal is heard.

[AlargeClaret]

There are many factors Jakub.

It sounds condescending and I really don't mean it this way but you have a privilege that you don't really think about. I do too. We all do.

We're privileged because

- we were taught the difference between right and wrong
- we were brought up in a orthodox family unit with responsible, present parents
- we have a reasonable grasp on our mental health that has been diagnosed and medicated if necessary
- we feel like we have the ability to make a choice between doing something right and wrong
- we were taught to respect and empathise, maybe even care and love our peers and community, so upsetting and hurting people within it would upset you too, deterring you from doing so.
- we are intellectually capable, and if we weren't we'd have been given the right amount of support to guide us down the right path.

There are many factors besides this, but there are some big ones (you wouldn't believe how much of a correlation having the absence of a stable family background dictates your likelihood of going to prison, and reoffending)

If you are someone adversely affected by one or multiple of these factors then your likelihood of prison increases, and no matter what someone has done to get themselves back in chokey, the underlying reason for their reoffending will be linked to the above.

Source: My Mrs, a criminal psychologist and that won her doctorate via research on domestic abuse.

Not meaning to be intentionally pedantic , but , with respect I’d imagine your Mrs “ earned” her doctorate (through research , dedication,hard work etc ) rather than “ won it” ( eg in a raffle , tombola or on a scratch card )

[BigGaz]

Yeah fair comment mate. I meant won in the context of working hard and being rewarded for the effort but obviously its left open to interpretation. It was indeed well earned, yours works better