Nick Pope - positioning.

D8BFC · Post by **D8BFC** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:52 pm

I'm absolutely certain that Nick Pope is the best goalkeeper in England at the moment ... but i think his greatest skill is his biggest downfall, and probably the reason why he isn't seen as Englands #1.

The amount of shots which are straight at him is unbelievable - which turns them into regulation saves... but that is 100% due to his wonderful positional sense, in that he therefore doesnt have to make as many "wonder" saves as Heaton and Pickford.

He has that ability of always standing in the right place, that together with his height, reach and stand out ability over the other 2 to come for crosses puts him miles ahead of those from a keeping point of view.

Yes - he may not be as good with his feet as Pickford, but the amount of times Pickford gets into trouble playing out from the back for both Everton and England is ridiculous.

We have a frigging good un lads!!!

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:01 pm

Unfortunately for Nick, the modern trend is to favour a goalkeeper who can either play constant short passes to defenders, regardless of how much pressure it places the team under or be able to launch the ball three quarters the length of the pitch. Neither of these plays to his strengths. Although distribution is a key skill for a keeper, to me its secondary to the ability to keep the ball out of the net. And he does that far better than Pickford.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:01 pm

I wouldn't swap him m8 for Pitchfork .... Tom is always in our hearts and minds but Pope has to be the best like you say for positioning himself in the right place.... also he comes for crosses ... catches when he has to ... and punches if there is no other option ... plus its rare when he punches that he doesn't get good contact.

Yes ... in His Emininence we have a bloody good-un and he makes his (ex-England number one) number two Hart look very very mediocre

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:08 pm

I honestly believe Pope is a better goalkeeper than Pickford. I don't think Dyche would swap our keeper for Everton's.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:09 pm

I dont get this passing it out from the back bollockss,they fanny around for three or four minutes passing it around the back then it eventually goes back to the keeper who hoofs it,the paying public are being robbed of entertainment with all this fannying about.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:10 pm

Steve currently bored shitless onboard a Virgin train bound for Edinburgh

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:12 pm

Pope’s distribution is his weakness but England now have a manager who prefers Pickford to him and prefers Mings to Tarkowski.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:12 pm

Vino blanco wrote:I honestly believe Pope is a better goalkeeper than Pickford. I don't think Dyche would swap our keeper for Everton's.

Pickford is a tw@t.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:13 pm

You are right Tony, but I disagree with the England manager, not sure if he reads this message board though.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:18 pm

Pope’s a good keeper but positioning is usually mastered ( give or take a bit of fine tuning) by about 15/16 .He uses his height well though and twice swatted away very dangerous balls on Sat. Popes distribution ain’t bad either ,he’s a lot quicker now for the “ fast roll out” and is no slouch with his head either .Funnily enough this season has seen a big return to kicking out of hands by many prem keepers ,which is ironic as academies frown on this no end . Pickfords an excellent keeper with good feet . It’s not a golden age for English keepers but he’s done nothing to warrant losing his Eng no 1 slot .

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:41 pm

Steve1956 wrote:Pickford is a tw@t.

Thats what I like about you Steve m8, no beating round the bush, pussyfooting around, treading carefully .... you are concise and straight to the point....

Oh yeah and you're spot on "Pitchfork IS A Tw@t"

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:50 pm

Bosscat wrote:Thats what I like about you Steve m8, no beating round the bush, pussyfooting around, treading carefully .... you are concise and straight to the point....

Oh yeah and you're spot on "Pitchfork IS A Tw@t"

I'm not telling lies though am I,he thinks hes a big I am....I think hes a shite keeper.

UpTheClaretsFCBK · Post by **UpTheClaretsFCBK** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:54 pm

Not difficult, because Pickford is terrible. I also believe (Much as he saved us last season), it was the right time to let Heaton go, he's not looking nearly as good without our defence in front of him.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:03 pm

Pope is doing exceptionally well and once his distribution with his feet improves he'll be a much better all round keeper.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:06 pm

Gee whizz, such venom towards a footballer just trying to be the best he can. Not his fault that he has been chosen for England in preference to Saint Nick.
Some of you lot really are a sour bunch.

brigante · Post by **brigante** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:18 pm

Our standard defensive approach / shape also encourages the opposition to shoot from particular angles and ranges which helps greatly in this regard.

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:41 pm

It's been explained on here before that our defensive system means Players get inside the line of the posts leaving that channel straight into Popes waiting arms.
System or not he is Englands best keeper.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:51 pm

Being Englands number two is probably the best case for Burnley.
He goes away and trains with the best players gaining confidence.
He doesn't move to a bigger club with the international recognition.

But the biggest plus is he doesn't have to put up with all the hate on social media that playing for England brings.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:10 pm

Why the hate for Pickford anyway ? Yes , like most young super rich footballers he’s a bit of a bellend but this guy has been pretty much a child prodigy and while I don’t think he’s quite as good as TH , the margins for top keepers are literally fag paper thin .

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:36 pm

Steve1956 wrote:I'm not telling lies though am I,he thinks hes a big I am....I think hes a shite keeper.

Sorry about the Whatsapp soundshare m8

I just had this vision of you pressing play and an entire "Virgin Trains" carriage turning to look for the person who just broke wind rather loudly

It was the Notification sound I used for my Eldest Brother on Whatsapp and he sent a message to me when I was on the bus to Skipton and everyone turned and looked at me

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:38 pm

chekhov wrote:Gee whizz, such venom towards a footballer just trying to be the best he can. Not his fault that he has been chosen for England in preference to Saint Nick.
Some of you lot really are a sour bunch.

nowt to do with it m8 ... he isn`t a patch on Nick (or Tom) apart from his kicking, and some of that on saturday was dog poo

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:23 pm

This obsession with goalies being able to pass it out is daft. A similar trend is hampering Test cricket as England pick the best batsman and not the best keeper. But stopping shots and taking wickets is a thousands times more important than an accurate short pass or 30 odd not out.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:39 pm

: 9A987877-45EF-4239-A9C6-6E64FECD887E.jpeg (397.06 KiB) Viewed 4695 times

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:44 pm

I guess one reason Pope seems to be in the right position for shots is that perhaps shots are channelled by our defenders into that area. Other spots are blocked. It's all part of being in our back five.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:49 pm

Once again I think people are mixing up a few things with Pope's distribution.

1. Short passes out from the back.

2. Accuracy with long kicks.

3. Vision to notice a counter opportunity.

No-one has ever said that Pope is bad at 1 and 3. He has improved throwing and rolling the ball out from the back and will make the odd pass too, generally without issue. Yes he doesn't have a first touch like some keepers playing for top teams but that doesn't matter to us as much as it does to them.

The problem is point 2. He cannot kick long range accurately and often over hits his kicks.

No one is saying Pope should be an Ederson or an Alison but its point 2 which can particularly cost us in some games, and something that is probably even more important to us as we rely greatly earning possession from our front two being big and being able to hold up the ball and win challenges/fouls.

If you cannot see the relationship between accurate kicking, the way we play with two centre forwards in Barnes and Wood and the importance therefore on Pope improving his distribution then I can only think you must be watching a different team.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:54 pm

D8BFC wrote:I'm absolutely certain that Nick Pope is the best goalkeeper in England at the moment ... but i think his greatest skill is his biggest downfall, and probably the reason why he isn't seen as Englands #1.

The amount of shots which are straight at him is unbelievable - which turns them into regulation saves... but that is 100% due to his wonderful positional sense, in that he therefore doesnt have to make as many "wonder" saves as Heaton and Pickford.

He has that ability of always standing in the right place, that together with his height, reach and stand out ability over the other 2 to come for crosses puts him miles ahead of those from a keeping point of view.

Yes - he may not be as good with his feet as Pickford, but the amount of times Pickford gets into trouble playing out from the back for both Everton and England is ridiculous.

We have a frigging good un lads!!!

That, according to Gordon Banks and Peter Shilton, is the essence of goalkeeping.

The less you have to move, the better your starting position and chances of making a save.

As you say, Pickford is young and agile - the best in agility. However, as a goalkeeper learning his trade....he sucks.

He does not show signs of maturity and so, like Hart before him, time will show his weaknesses.

Heaton is also good, from his line but his lack of height means more occasions to dive full length.

Pope has positioning, command of penalty srea and shot stopper.

Decent kicking too, when given time, rather than a hasty clearance. Ok so he can't dribble but he caught and distributed, starting swift moves, far more successfully than Pickford, on Saturday.

England's rightful number 1.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:56 pm

I credit him for standing for 90 minutes and having hardly anything to do. Fair play.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:13 pm

Bosscat wrote:nowt to do with it m8 ... he isn`t a patch on Nick (or Tom) apart from his kicking, and some of that on saturday was dog poo

You don’t see my point.
No issue with folk saying Pope is better than Pickford. But why is it necessary to slag off and insult?
Okay I’m naive to assume anonymous blow hards on a football message board will be respectful to someone they’ve not even met.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:21 pm

chekhov wrote:You don’t see my point.
No issue with folk saying Pope is better than Pickford. But why is it necessary to slag off and insult?
Okay I’m naive to assume anonymous blow hards on a football message board will be respectful to someone they’ve not even met.

Perhaps you are on the wrong type of forum then Chekhov...

We have people who come on here and slag Sean Dyche off (singularly the most successful and influential BFC manager in one maybe two generations) or Steven Defour for being injured (who incedently was taken off injured AGAIN yesterday Hamstring out for a few months at least) Pitchfork plays for a rival ... of course he is going to get pelters... if you don't like it go and join a different forum.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:41 pm

Bosscat wrote:Perhaps you are on the wrong type of forum then Chekhov...

We have people who come on here and slag Sean Dyche off (singularly the most successful and influential BFC manager in one maybe two generations) or Steven Defour for being injured (who incedently was taken off injured AGAIN yesterday Hamstring out for a few months at least) Pitchfork plays for a rival ... of course he is going to get pelters... if you don't like it go and join a different forum.

Thanks for the advice Bosscat, but I will stay with this forum (I like it, there are also plenty of decent, intelligent and respectful posters on here) while reserving the right to occasionally call out those that direct anonymous personal abuse.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:44 pm

There was a free kick for Everton in the first half where pope made a good save and I said to my Mrs at the time that pope was standing central in the goal rather than hanging to one side as a lot of keepers would have done and how that allowed him to make the save otherwise it would have been a goal. Superb positioning to make a great save look straight forward.

Indecisive · Post by **Indecisive** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:46 pm

One thing that Pope has mastered is game management.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a goalkeeper so good at taking his time. If we are drawing away from home, guaranteed he will take the absolute maximum amount of time...releasing the ball a split second before the ref turns to presumably reach for his pocket... adjusting the ball, swapping sides... and the relatively new one (as seen in injury time on Saturday) of positioning the ball quickly for a ‘short ball’, waiting for someone to drop short for it... then waiting for their attackers to clock and close down, then waving the player away, and finally resetting the ball for a long kick (they have two distinct positions depending on whether your playing pass or hitting it long).

It’s an art form.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:50 pm

chekhov wrote:Thanks for the advice Bosscat, but I will stay with this forum (I like it, there are also plenty of decent, intelligent and respectful posters on here) while reserving the right to occasionally call out those that direct anonymous personal abuse.

I think you had better make sure you call out every person on here who says anything about anyone else then hadn't you sonny

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 pm

Indecisive wrote:One thing that Pope has mastered is game management.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a goalkeeper so good at taking his time. If we are drawing away from home, guaranteed he will take the absolute maximum amount of time...releasing the ball a split second before the ref turns to presumably reach for his pocket... adjusting the ball, swapping sides... and the relatively new one (as seen in injury time on Saturday) of positioning the ball quickly for a ‘short ball’, waiting for someone to drop short for it... then waiting for their attackers to clock and close down, then waving the player away, and finally resetting the ball for a long kick (they have two distinct positions depending on whether your playing pass or hitting it long).

It’s an art form.

We were talking about this new short GK in the pub after the game ... every team is adopting the tactic of calling players then waving everyone away thereby wasting time... the FA have brought it about with the rule...

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:06 pm

I thought I noticed an increase in confidence from Nick against Everton, especially when coming for crosses. One still made me wince though in the second half. Didn’t think he needed to come for it but he still did it with total confidence.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:08 pm

jdrobbo wrote:
9A987877-45EF-4239-A9C6-6E64FECD887E.jpeg

Whatever happened to Middlesbrough?

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:08 pm

Also thought Dwight continues to hold onto the ball a little longer each game. All good to see.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:51 pm

Darnhill Claret wrote:I thought I noticed an increase in confidence from Nick against Everton, especially when coming for crosses. One still made me wince though in the second half. Didn’t think he needed to come for it but he still did it with total confidence.

Yep. That was his big USP when he first got into the team two years ago. Saturday was the first time I've seen him show that same willingness to come and use that telescopic reach of his. He's been a bit reticent previously this season but it's a positive sign of his growing confidence.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:57 pm

claretspice wrote:Yep. That was his big USP when he first got into the team two years ago. Saturday was the first time I've seen him show that same willingness to come and use that telescopic reach of his. He's been a bit reticent previously this season but it's a positive sign of his growing confidence.

Confidence in his shoulder standing up to it will take time claretspice ...
Nick is certainly looking his old self this past couple of games.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:41 am

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Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:42 am

Bosscat wrote:Sorry about the Whatsapp soundshare m8

I just had this vision of you pressing play and an entire "Virgin Trains" carriage turning to look for the person who just broke wind rather loudly

It was the Notification sound I used for my Eldest Brother on Whatsapp and he sent a message to me when I was on the bus to Skipton and everyone turned and looked at me

No worries mate there was a snotty little kid sat across from me I would have blamed him

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:45 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:There was a free kick for Everton in the first half where pope made a good save and I said to my Mrs at the time that pope was standing central in the goal rather than hanging to one side as a lot of keepers would have done and how that allowed him to make the save otherwise it would have been a goal. Superb positioning to make a great save look straight forward.

I noticed that. Most keepers would have dived over and maybe made a "spectacular" save and Nick just sort of fell over apologetically as if he had it covered all along.

simonclaret · Post by **simonclaret** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:17 am

Indecisive wrote:One thing that Pope has mastered is game management.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a goalkeeper so good at taking his time. If we are drawing away from home, guaranteed he will take the absolute maximum amount of time...releasing the ball a split second before the ref turns to presumably reach for his pocket... adjusting the ball, swapping sides... and the relatively new one (as seen in injury time on Saturday) of positioning the ball quickly for a ‘short ball’, waiting for someone to drop short for it... then waiting for their attackers to clock and close down, then waving the player away, and finally resetting the ball for a long kick (they have two distinct positions depending on whether your playing pass or hitting it long).

It’s an art form.

I remember when he was first thrust into the team he gathered the ball and looked to release straightaway. Tarks shoved him to ground and had a word in his ear. Great support for someone getting to grips with being no. 1 at a Premier League club.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:48 pm

Pickford is a little scrote I shouldn't say that i dont know him personalty but
Pope to me is the better keeper for me his saves go unnoticed to a degree as he makes them look so routine and he can fly across goal and save the unsaveable
Before this weekend Villa were bottom three this next few weeks Everton lie routed there confidence levels must be shot at and he will be shat scared of making a mistake cos i'll tell you something Nick Pope in the middle of our goal can smell it