How do we move forward?

[ClaretRock]

Great result yesterday against a top side. We rode our luck which was to be expected and managed a hard earned 3 points.
Now is this the peak of our ability as a team and club being one of the smaller less well funded of clubs or could we progress?
Last time we tried to change the way we played we got ourselves into trouble and started leaking too many goals. Was that the change in style or the fact we were in Europe or even who was playing at the time? I feel Dyche is reluctant to try again and is settling for the well tested method that has kept us up.

There were times yesterday where we were closed in our own half and it was crying out for a ball down the line for our strikers to run onto however Wood and Jayrod would have most likely been outpaced to it. I feel we need to add pace to our attack rather than playing two similar types of players. They were both doing the same thing at times yesterday and looked to be in each other's way. It was quite slow in midfield at times and has been for a while now and the lack of movement was awful I'd like to see more urgency when we have the ball we played some nice passes albeit rarely so the ability is there and everyone put in a shift so the players are up for it and disnt look like a side that had lost 4 on the bounce.

So my expert opinion would be to -
Add pace to the attack to give us an outlet(Board probably won't spend a penny though ).
Have the same urgency with the ball as we have without it. Movement to come and receive a pass and move it on quickly and retain the ball for longer periods. (Obviously this would be done as a focus in training rather than asking for new players ).

What's your expert opinion on moving our little club forward

[ClaretAndJew]

No one on here has expert opinions because none of us work professionally within the Premier League.

[Hibsclaret]

You have high thoughts about your opinions....most opinions on here are novice opinions at best with others being amateurish beyond belief

[CleggHall]

"the lack of movement was awful"- nothing wrong with Westwood's lack of movement me thinks!?

[Bosscat]

By placing one foot in front of the other one.

Simples innit

[MACCA]

I think looking log term, starting a conveyor belt of talent whether thsts through the academy or buying rough diamonds to polish up.

I'm delighted we are rumoured to be looking at a 22 year old CB.
Thsts exactly what we should be doing, looking for the next Tarky, Pooe, MCNeil and Wood.

They could go at any moment for big fees, having the next in line here already at a fraction of the cost has to be the way for us.

I think the next 2 windows will show us clearly the direction and long term plan the club has.

[NewClaret]

All teams ride their luck in patches of every game. United could have lost 5-0 yesterday. It could also have been 1-2 with a bit more “luck”.

For me, we have to eradicate the small errors. They are, as Dyche would say, “fine margins”.

McNeil and Taylor’s mistakes against Everton/United cost us. Cork, who I thought was fouled, could have done the same yesterday. You’ll never stop them completely, but learning from those mistakes and maturing as a PL team would go a long way to becoming an established PL team.

Then trim the squad players and ideally use the wages to bring in real quality. A top quality CDM, RB or RW, and a lightning fast striker and we would be a top team.

[2 Bee Holed]

How do we move forward?

By by hoofing up to Wood of course.

What a strange question.

[mdd2]

I am no soccer expert but IMO Jack Cork lost the ball yesterday because he had no outlet as there was nobody wide right to pass to. There should have been, instead of the wide men being pulled inside. All that was needed was someone wide right to take a pass so he gets caught (and fouled IMO) with the ball and then some pretty poor defending from Ben who against Barnes cost us both the goal and the penalty as Barnes cut though him like a knife through butter-easy peasy.
So I think we move forward if we can find 1) pace 2) midfield ball winner, 3) someone to replace Ben in the coming seasons 4) a decent right back
It is a big big ask.

[Lord Beamish]

Sadly, I think we’re caught in a kind of Malthusian trap, where our model of slow, incremental growth is steadily being overtaken by the speed of the growth in the spending of our competitors. Without outside investment, I think we’ll soon be swamped.

[FactualFrank]

I think a club like us need to continue concentrating a lot on youth development. We stand a very good chance now after yesterday's win of picking up enough points to stay up, which enables us to continue with this, as I was told if we went down, the building of youth would have to slow down due to more limited finances.

In the immediate term, sign the 3-4 players we need to establish ourselves as a more genuine mid-table team.

[houseboy]

One thing I did notice yesterday was the, at times, acres of space Leicester players found themselves in. Now that could just be the quality of player they have but at times they found it too easy to pass the ball around with ease. We used to be fast at closing play down and not giving the opposition time on the ball but there wasn't too much evidence of that yesterday. Not being hyper critical here because yesterday was a great relief and we played some very good stuff but we need to stop giving teams that kind of space. Our game is not built on possession (obviously) it is built on good defensive work and closing teams down, using what possession we do have better, but that is what has gone a little from our game. Let's not forget that but for a pretty world class performance by Pope they could have been out of sight long before we got the winner.

Altogether a great day but we must address these issues I think.

[houseboy]

Sadly, I think we’re caught in a kind of Malthusian trap, where our model of slow, incremental growth is steadily being overtaken by the speed of the growth in the spending of our competitors. Without outside investment, I think we’ll soon be swamped.

Pretty good observation. We are building a good base and that is to be applauded but the base of other teams with more money is moving a tad faster so that makes us look like we are going backwards. We AREN'T but we are just not moving forward as quickly as those with the money (or the bravery/stupidity) to spend. Looking at where we are compared to 5 years ago we can see a massive improvement but the way things are moving I think we will fall behind because of the amount of money most clubs are spending (alas even if they haven't really got it in some cases).

None of us know the answer though, even though some pretend they do.

[IanMcL]

3 points definitely moved us up.

We beat the team aiming to go 2nd in the 'the most competitive league in the world'.

Onwards and upwards.

Up the Clarets

[TVC15]

One thing I did notice yesterday was the, at times, acres of space Leicester players found themselves in. Now that could just be the quality of player they have but at times they found it too easy to pass the ball around with ease. We used to be fast at closing play down and not giving the opposition time on the ball but there wasn't too much evidence of that yesterday. Not being hyper critical here because yesterday was a great relief and we played some very good stuff but we need to stop giving teams that kind of space. Our game is not built on possession (obviously) it is built on good defensive work and closing teams down, using what possession we do have better, but that is what has gone a little from our game. Let's not forget that but for a pretty world class performance by Pope they could have been out of sight long before we got the winner.

Altogether a great day but we must address these issues I think.

We were having this exact same conversation yesterday.
Good players find space and time much easier. Defour a perfect example for us.
Good teams / players make good runs and provide more options for the players with time / space.
Then the good players have more quality in finding these players / and most importantly making better decisions.

Leicester were good at that. As annoying as Maddison was he is a quality player that picks up the ball in good positions and then can pick great passes. In Vardy and others they have very willing, fast and clever players making good runs.

Its hard for us to get players in with this quality....in the market we shop in i`d say in this league you are probably looking at someone like JonJo Shelvey who we can afford and has that kind of quality (not as good obviously)....but even then you need someone to win the ball / give it him and most importantly players who can make those runs. Another option could be McNeil who I thought looked composed when he went into the middle for a bit yesterday and played a couple of lovely passes. He has a good touch, is confident and brave in his own ability...but then we lose his quality on the wing.

[Belial]

[quote=What's your expert opinion on moving our little club forward
[/quote]

For me, we need to try some balls through the middle occasionally - especially when we have JRod in, rather than every time we come forward looking to cross into the box from the wing. It occasionally works - as it did yesterday thanks to some poor defending by Leicester, but it's quite predictable as to how we play. One that springs to mind from a few years ago in the championship is a 3-0 away at Brentford (I think) where there was good link up play between Ward inside to Gray who set it up for a curler from Arfield. We don't seem to ply through the middle much at all, which means for opposing teams we are probably quite easy to read.

Oh..and Pope's kicking needs to be better then the ball won't come back to us every time!

[claretspice]

Leicester had space because we had to drop deep and avoid space in behind. The two or three occasions we offered space, they scored, won a penalty or forced excellent saves from Pope. So obviously, that opens up the pitch elsewhere. Its partly our lack of pace which means that we get put under pressure because we're so much more easily boxed in. And of course, the fact they have better technicians doesn't half help too.

As for how we can move forwards - the first thing to accept is that this is a very good Burnley team. Any year in which we are 5 points clear of the relegation zone at this stage is reflective of a good team. The best way to move forwards is to get behind it, accepting the limitations of what we can achieve.

But there are two things that I'd like to see, to help us improve:

1. We need to continue to develop the patterns of play that help us play to Rodriguez's strengths. The difference between the first and second halves yesterday was that in the second half, he played even more to his natural style, dropping deep and linking the game to feet, and the rest of the team went with it - most obviously for the winner. In the first half we were a bit half and half - sometimes we were using Jay as a proxy for Barnesy and that won't ever be effective. The next stage is to get runners beyond Jay more often for him to link with - we saw McNeil and him link to good effect in the second half and developing that understanding, but also that with others, is key.

2. We need to find a way of creating a greater threat down our right hand side. Bluntly, for far too much of the game yesterday that half of the pitch was a write off for us, and indeed Leicester set up with a specific intention to block up our left and invite us to attack down the right - and we weren't up to the challenge. I thought Hendrick did fine yesterday, but there were quite a few occasions when I wished that Lennon was on the pitch as a natural right sided player - particularly when Jay needed a runner on his right hand side. Even when Jay took on a shot from distance in the first half rather than play it to Hendrick, I think it was because Hendrick hadn't made a run that took the defender out of the equation as a winger might, and there were at least two occasions in the second half when having rolled the defender, Jay wanted to runner beyond him to his right, and found no-one. Lennon hasn't shown his best at Burnley but that's partly because the sorts of runs I'm describing have been the bedrock of his success down the years - and at Burnley, until now, we've never really played a set up that enables him to make those runs. He's shown glimpses recently and he deserves a chance to show he can thrive with Jay playing as that second striker.

Long term - the answer on that side is probably in the shape of a right back with a bit more athleticism - we used to play tight on the right when Dyche first arrived, but we always had the option of a switch to Trippier (usually via Marney's raking pass). That's the challenge for our recruitment team.

[Dark Cloud]

Basically we don't let yesterday lull us into any false sense of security. It was a great result and so typical of us to be backs to the wall, riding our luck, digging in, being largely second best to a top team, niggling away at them constantly and then we steal the points. Absolutely typical Burnley in the SD Premier league era, but if SD or the board think it no longer needs some incoming fresh blood asap, especially in midfield, imo they are very much mistaken. One swallow and all that....

[Vegas Claret]

You have high thoughts about your opinions....most opinions on here are novice opinions at best with others being amateurish beyond belief

what was it you said about Charlie Taylor ? sorry, couldn't resist !

[JohnMac]

Players with pace cost a lot of money if the can play football to compliment it. No good buying cheaper players for their speed if they are like Dane Richards.

[ewanrob]

I got slaughtered yesterday, saying issues were still apparent and the lack of pace....what a difference a day makes !!

And I'm no expert

[Spijed]

Is pace really a requirement? We did well without it two seasons ago and Sheff utd are doing well without it this season

[AlargeClaret]

While pace isn’t the “be all and end all” of a perm team it’s vital to have some pace within the team to maximise and create more chances . With a strong driving ( or very skillfull) CM you can get away with it but a team as slow as ours will always struggle when we only have McNeil offering creativity. And with respect to DM he’s very much a developing talent

[boatshed bill]

Is pace really a requirement? We did well without it two seasons ago and Sheff utd are doing well without it this season

Sheffield Utd were considerably faster than us.
However, speed thought is more important.

[Corky]

Ambulate!

[boatshed bill]

Ambulate!

Currere citius

[ClaretRock]

Well some people got the thread and gave there expert opinion. Some people couldn't grasp the sarcasm and felt to comment on the post not the question.. poor you.
Particularly agree with playing more through balls which is why I mentioned needing pace, as whilst Jayrod has a quality about him I'm not sure he is fast enough to seize onto through balls.

[warksclaret]

With Jay in the side we did play a lot more possession football yesterday and for spells retained the ball well. I said yesterday in a post it would have been nice to drop a fit and in form De Four into that side . Jack has the intent but plays the simple pass but when pressed I always have a fear of him being dispossessed, It happens several times a game. I think we have missed a play maker for a long time but I think an old head like Shelvey would really help transform this team . For me Joey Barton is still a big miss-he was a driver, deadly in the tackle and rarely dispossessed despite his build. This type of player would raise Westwood's game too (who I thought had another good game yesterday and seems to be coming back on form)

We have no pace upfront, but a strong wide striker like Antonio at West Ham would be a huge addition

In short a play maker and a strong quick striker would enhance this team

[BFC88]

The real issue with our team is centre midfield. We dont have the required quality to retain possession, tackle, drive forwards or create. This is where the most investment is required. Our strikers feed on scraps every week, defence under too much pressure.

We also need a RB and RW as JBG (as good as he is) is too injury prone.

As someone mentioned above we are also desperate for some pace up front. We are too predictable.

Until we address it in the transfer market (particularly CM) we will continue to struggle in this league and eventually go down.