Covid-19

[thatdberight]

How do the think it is spread in the majority of cases if it isn't via your hands?

Aerially.

The virus that causes COVID-19 is thought to spread mainly from person to person, mainly through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. Spread is more likely when people are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet). (CDC)

[Rileybobs]

Yeh, not keen on the fireworks, had them 2 weeks running.
I wonder which retail outlet selling essential items do they get them from?

Some people like to try and out-do others I guess. I suppose letting off fireworks shows that they’re more grateful to the carers than the rest of us.

[Vino blanco]

The slogan back in the early sixties was "Coughs and sneezes spread diseases": this still applies .

[tim_noone]

One of the neighbours was banging his frying pan and then letting off a loud firework.

nice.........

[thatdberight]

Some people like to try and out-do others I guess. I suppose letting off fireworks shows that they’re more grateful to the carers than the rest of us.

They're certainly more likely to get to thank them in person.

NHS England said that over the last five years there had also been almost 1,000 hospital admissions relating to the discharge of a firework. (ITV)

[Blackrod]

Fireworks and outdoing each other are hardly appropriate. People are dying still.

[KateR]

This too is backing up what's been said before. By the end of this, a lot of hands will have been washed a lot of times for no major benefit is my guess. But I'm still doing it since it's recommended.

the doctor I watch here in the US pointed out recently that a study had been done in terms of how long the virus lasted on numerous surfaces, the findings showed that metal (more to come on this) and paper were where it would last the longest.

The study findings were in reply to numerous questions around how long and would money transmit the virous, it found that SS and paper lasted the longest, minimum of 72 hours and that indeed people should be careful with money as a means to pass the virus.

However what I found very interesting was that in terms of metals they found that they virus on copper did not last an hour and was measured in minutes. Consequently, another study is ongoing as to why copper has this affect on the virus.

I am washing my hands a lot, also using a lot of hand lotion!

Another interesting point (well I thought so) was in regard to what could be done in terms of how people could stop from touching the face, which is an automatic response. The doctor mentioned that for him and many of his colleagues when they wear latex gloves it is second nature not to touch anything that is not sterile, but obviously the population needed something else. The simple elegant solution, put perfume/aftershave on your thumbs and index fingers, when you raise your hand you will smell it, which is unusual and this will trigger the brain into - don't touch.

Cue upturn in sales of perfumes/aftershave, but I think most of us will have some old Christmas/birthday presents of this hanging around that may be put to good use

[Rileybobs]

the doctor I watch here in the US pointed out recently that a study had been done in terms of how long the virus lasted on numerous surfaces, the findings showed that metal (more to come on this) and paper were where it would last the longest.

The study findings were in reply to numerous questions around how long and would money transmit the virous, it found that SS and paper lasted the longest, minimum of 72 hours and that indeed people should be careful with money as a means to pass the virus.

However what I found very interesting was that in terms of metals they found that they virus on copper did not last an hour and was measured in minutes. Consequently, another study is ongoing as to why copper has this affect on the virus.

I am washing my hands a lot, also using a lot of hand lotion!

Another interesting point (well I thought so) was in regard to what could be done in terms of how people could stop from touching the face, which is an automatic response. The doctor mentioned that for him and many of his colleagues when they wear latex gloves it is second nature not to touch anything that is not sterile, but obviously the population needed something else. The simple elegant solution, put perfume/aftershave on your thumbs and index fingers, when you raise your hand you will smell it, which is unusual and this will trigger the brain into - don't touch.

Cue upturn in sales of perfumes/aftershave, but I think most of us will have some old Christmas/birthday presents of this hanging around that may be put to good use

Surely continually washing hands serves little purpose when you’re at home though? When I was working at the office I washed my hands fairly frequently, and when I return from a trip outdoors or to the shop I give them a wash. But otherwise since becoming house-bound I’ve not been washing my hands with any more regularity than I usually would.

[Spijed]

Aerially.

The virus that causes COVID-19 is thought to spread mainly from person to person, mainly through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. Spread is more likely when people are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet). (CDC)

But what about infected people coughing on surfaces which are then touched by others?

[KateR]

Surely continually washing hands serves little purpose when you’re at home though? When I was working at the office I washed my hands fairly frequently, and when I return from a trip outdoors or to the shop I give them a wash. But otherwise since becoming house-bound I’ve not been washing my hands with any more regularity than I usually would.

it's a very good point, food shopping and take away pick up plus mail opening/amazon deliveries have all been hand washing events and still are, however hubby was still going to work but working in an area with no people yet it was always clothes off/washer on every night, more washing of hands after that and ensuring things like door handles were sanitized after entry every time someone came from outside, shopping etc. Additionally while completely outside the virus it has been an ongoing trial trying to get hubby and son to wash hands after the toilet, something I always do, well I like to think I do. Delivery pick up now only once a week, hubby home so yes reduced but still being vigilant, I need to stop the amazon buying habit to get it down further but there was a birthday in the house very recently.

He is now working from home, probably a bigger problem lol

[Rileybobs]

it's a very good point, food shopping and take away pick up plus mail opening/amazon deliveries have all been hand washing events and still are, however hubby was still going to work but working in an area with no people yet it was always clothes off/washer on every night, more washing of hands after that and ensuring things like door handles were sanitized after entry every time someone came from outside, shopping etc. Additionally while completely outside the virus it has been an ongoing trial trying to get hubby and son to wash hands after the toilet, something I always do, well I like to think I do. Delivery pick up now only once a week, hubby home so yes reduced but still being vigilant, I need to stop the amazon buying habit to get it down further but there was a birthday in the house very recently.

He is now working from home, probably a bigger problem lol

Yeah, I also wash my hands after collecting shopping or taking deliveries but I’ve got to be honest I’ve never ‘sanitised’ any of my shopping which I’m guessing some do.

[thatdberight]

But what about infected people coughing on surfaces which are then touched by others?

If you have some data the CDC haven't thought of, they'd be the people to talk to. I didn't say there was "no benefit". Transmission through surfaces is clearly possible. As I understand it, from what I've read from experts, that's not a major source of transmission. I'm not saying, "Don't wash your hands". I'm just saying I believe (based on what experts are saying) that will not prove to have been a major way in which this is controlled.

Going further steps like sanitising your purchases is really inconsistent with the risks people are prepared to take on a daily basis like driving. But if someone's obsessing about CoVid-19, I can't stop them.

[KateR]

Surely continually washing hands serves little purpose when you’re at home though? When I was working at the office I washed my hands fairly frequently, and when I return from a trip outdoors or to the shop I give them a wash. But otherwise since becoming house-bound I’ve not been washing my hands with any more regularity than I usually would.

Bob,
just out of interest and not to pick a fight/argument I posted mainly about the virus and doctors findings/advise on how long the virus lasts on surfaces plus a tip for not touching the face, which I thought were relevant topics for this thread. Yet you chose to respond and ask about one little line in regard to washing my hands, let's forget that but did you already know about the two main points and/or were they of no interest to you at all?

[Spijed]

If you have some data the CDC haven't thought of, they'd be the people to talk to. I didn't say there was "no benefit". Transmission through surfaces is clearly possible. As I understand it, from what I've read from experts, that's not a major source of transmission. I'm not saying, "Don't wash your hands". I'm just saying I believe (based on what experts are saying) that will not prove to have been a major way in which this is controlled.

Going further steps like sanitising your purchases is really inconsistent with the risks people are prepared to take on a daily basis like driving. But if someone's obsessing about CoVid-19, I can't stop them.

But that begs the question how are asymptomatic people spreading it if they neither cough or sneeze in the vicinity of others.

[KateR]

Yeah, I also wash my hands after collecting shopping or taking deliveries but I’ve got to be honest I’ve never ‘sanitised’ any of my shopping which I’m guessing some do.

I do not sanitize actual shopping but I wash my hands when I get it home before I put it away, I open my mail and trash the usual rubbish, anything I think I need to respond to go in a pile of to do. Shopping bag handles (green reusable) have handles sprayed and put away, trying hard not to use again before 3 days, think I am succeeding in this. Take away food is always microwaved before using, obviously no salads/cold products bought with takeaway and no drinks either.

I am considered paranoid and am fine with this, and yes actually nothing new in our home, it's just one more they have added to the list

[thatdberight]

But that begs the question how are asymptomatic people spreading it if they neither cough or sneeze in the vicinity of others.

By the same token, if they're not spreading it by coughing and sneezing, they're not leaving it on door handles.

I've just been watching C4. They're currently pandering to the frenetically over-worried. Great.

You might be interested in this which I saw yesterday. Those researchers also comment that aerial transmission remains the main mode of transmission.
https://phys.org/wire-news/347797400/re ... he-im.html

[Blackrod]

Can we believe the numbers coming out of some countries ? Iran seems to have just over 100 dead every day and did so shortly after they were digging huge burial grounds. No really large case numbers being reported from Russia either.

[Spijed]

By the same token, if they're not spreading it by coughing and sneezing, they're not leaving it on door handles.

Well, you'd think anyone who has it would easily transmit it with any sweat on their palms when they touch surfaces, regardless of any lack of symptoms. That's how you could easily leave it on any surface.

[Rileybobs]

Bob,
just out of interest and not to pick a fight/argument I posted mainly about the virus and doctors findings/advise on how long the virus lasts on surfaces plus a tip for not touching the face, which I thought were relevant topics for this thread. Yet you chose to respond and ask about one little line in regard to washing my hands, let's forget that but did you already know about the two main points and/or were they of no interest to you at all?

My point about hand washing was intended to be related to your points about how long the virus lasts on surfaces and preventative measures to touching your face, not just in response to one of your lines. What I was trying to say is that if the virus is on any surfaces in my house then I’ve accepted that I will come into contact with it.

I wash my hands after going outside and taking deliveries etc. but I don’t sanitise the food packaging that comes into the house. I also haven’t consciously stopped touching my face although this, along with hand washing, was something that I was more wary of when I was working in the office.

[KateR]

But that begs the question how are asymptomatic people spreading it if they neither cough or sneeze in the vicinity of others.

I would imagine that the spread is mainly through close proximity and it seems like busy cities/mass transport links and especially where there have been large gatherings enjoying themselves, even to the point of kissing strangers such as Madi Gra and all the pubs/bars/clubs, will have been the haven for mass spreading.

Spreading from touch on surfaces will be a fraction of the total, you would need someone to sneeze/cough or sneeze wipe nose with hand on a door handle, plus some poor soul grabbing said door handle and then touching faces/nose/eyes/mouth. Similar for surfaces, maybe bar/pub type counters.

Don't see washing hands often as being fanatical though, if over cautious, so what? Far rather people were over cautious than just not care.

[KateR]

My point about hand washing was intended to be related to your points about how long the virus lasts on surfaces and preventative measures to touching your face, not just in response to one of your lines. What I was trying to say is that if the virus is on any surfaces in my house then I’ve accepted that I will come into contact with it.

I wash my hands after going outside and taking deliveries etc. but I don’t sanitise the food packaging that comes into the house. I also haven’t consciously stopped touching my face although this, along with hand washing, was something that I was more wary of when I was working in the office.

thank you for the clarity

[thatdberight]

Well, you'd think anyone who has it would easily transmit it with any sweat on their palms when they touch surfaces, regardless of any lack of symptoms. That's how you could easily leave it on any surface.

Why would it be in sweat? Sweat is produced in sweat glands which are not a repository for the virus.

Do what you want and be as vigilant as you feel is good for you but it's (touching surface > hands > mouth), according to all the data and science I can see, a significant mode of transmission.

[Spijed]

Why would it be in sweat? Sweat is produced in sweat glands which are not a repository for the virus.

Do what you want and be as vigilant as you feel is good for you but it's not, according to all the data and science I can see, a significant mode of transmission.

This is an interesting article able aerosols:
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/16/cor ... an-doomed/

“If it could easily exist as an aerosol, we would be seeing much greater levels of transmission,” said epidemiologist Michael LeVasseur of Drexel University. “And we would be seeing a different pattern in who’s getting infected. With droplet spread, it’s mostly to close contacts. But if a virus easily exists as an aerosol, you could get it from people you share an elevator with.”

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, that is not happening. Earlier this month, CDC scientists reported that the rate of symptomatic infection among a patient’s household members was 10.5%. The rate among other close contacts was 0.45%. In the case of one particular patient, none of his five household members, although continuously exposed to the patient during the time he was isolated at home, tested positive for the virus.

[KateR]

Well, you'd think anyone who has it would easily transmit it with any sweat on their palms when they touch surfaces, regardless of any lack of symptoms. That's how you could easily leave it on any surface.

Here there is a local news program, for 30 minutes every lunchtime, dedicated to a doctor answering Houstonians questions, one was in regard to sweat, can it transmit, answer was no not sweat alone but if someone was a carrier, running/exercising then wiped the sweat of the face and caught some particles then it's a remote possibility but not sweat alone.

Most questions are, in my opinion, well known, and repeated but a few like sweat and money transfer were new and interesting to me, not sure if there is any program in the UK at the moment answering questions like these from the public , would have to be local rather than national I assume.

[Spijed]

By the same token, if they're not spreading it by coughing and sneezing, they're not leaving it on door handles.

I've just been watching C4. They're currently pandering to the frenetically over-worried. Great.

You might be interested in this which I saw yesterday. Those researchers also comment that aerial transmission remains the main mode of transmission.
https://phys.org/wire-news/347797400/re ... he-im.html

Reading that link and watching the simulation the indications are that it's spread mainly indoors.

Why are more steps not being taken to indicate the dangers of shopping in supermarkets if that is the problem?

[thatdberight]

Reading that link and watching the simulation the indications are that it's spread mainly indoors.

Why are more steps not being taken to indicate the dangers of shopping in supermarkets if that is the problem?

You're only meant to be shopping for essentials. They're limiting how many people can be in shops. If you have the symptoms you're not supposed to go shopping.

Not sure what else they're supposed to do. Perhaps if we all refuse to shop and starve to death that'll teach coronavirus a lesson.

[Lowbankclaret]

No idea how it’s being transmitted.
But a nurse I know came to collect 20 face Shields tonight.
She made me put them in the main road 20 feet from my front door.
She said her friends and colleagues were dropping like flies. I did confirm she meant ill, not dying.

It’s not going well on the front line.

[CombatClaret]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... avirus-nhs

60 ventilators donated from the German Army.

[thatdberight]

Unless something significant comes out, a government minister who should be relieved of his duties.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... 9-lockdown

[dsr]

Unless something significant comes out, a government minister who should be relieved of his duties.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... 9-lockdown

It's in the article that he was delivering medicine.

[thatdberight]

It's in the article that he was delivering medicine.

I read that. I guess I'm just really cynical. I don't believe him that was the easiest way to achieve that.

[KateR]

when I opened the Guardian link this is what I got, is everyone getting this or similar messages when they open the link or is it just me because it knows where I am sat? I suspect I was being targeted due to the "Support the Guardian from as little as $1 - it only takes a minute. Thank you." at the end.

America faces an epic choice...
... in the coming year, and the results will define the country for a generation. These are perilous times. Over the last three years, much of what the Guardian holds dear has been threatened – democracy, civility, truth. This US administration is establishing new norms of behaviour. Anger and cruelty disfigure public discourse and lying is commonplace. Truth is being chased away. But with your help we can continue to put it center stage.

Rampant disinformation, partisan news sources and social media's tsunami of fake news is no basis on which to inform the American public in 2020. The need for a robust, independent press has never been greater, and with your support we can continue to provide fact-based reporting that offers public scrutiny and oversight. You’ve read more than 14 articles in the last four months. Our journalism is free and open for all, but it's made possible thanks to the support we receive from readers like you across America in all 50 states.

Our journalism relies on our readers’ generosity – your financial support has meant we can keep investigating, disentangling and interrogating. It has protected our independence, which has never been so critical. We are so grateful.

We hope you will consider supporting us today. We need your support to keep delivering quality journalism that’s open and independent. Every reader contribution, however big or small, is so valuable. Support the Guardian from as little as $1 - it only takes a minute. Thank you.

[thatdberight]

when I opened the Guardian link this is what I got, is everyone getting this or similar messages when they open the link or is it just me because it knows where I am sat? I suspect I was being targeted due to the "Support the Guardian from as little as $1 - it only takes a minute. Thank you." at the end.

America faces an epic choice...
... in the coming year, and the results will define the country for a generation. These are perilous times. Over the last three years, much of what the Guardian holds dear has been threatened – democracy, civility, truth. This US administration is establishing new norms of behaviour. Anger and cruelty disfigure public discourse and lying is commonplace. Truth is being chased away. But with your help we can continue to put it center stage.

Rampant disinformation, partisan news sources and social media's tsunami of fake news is no basis on which to inform the American public in 2020. The need for a robust, independent press has never been greater, and with your support we can continue to provide fact-based reporting that offers public scrutiny and oversight. You’ve read more than 14 articles in the last four months. Our journalism is free and open for all, but it's made possible thanks to the support we receive from readers like you across America in all 50 states.

Our journalism relies on our readers’ generosity – your financial support has meant we can keep investigating, disentangling and interrogating. It has protected our independence, which has never been so critical. We are so grateful.

We hope you will consider supporting us today. We need your support to keep delivering quality journalism that’s open and independent. Every reader contribution, however big or small, is so valuable. Support the Guardian from as little as $1 - it only takes a minute. Thank you.

We get asked for £1. You can bet any commited Guardian reader agrees in full -and then some - with the sentiments expressed.

[KateR]

We get asked for £1. You can bet any commited Guardian reader agrees in full -and then some - with the sentiments expressed.

thanks, does it ask you relative to the USA or something in the UK?

[RingoMcCartney]

when I opened the Guardian link this is what I got, is everyone getting this or similar messages when they open the link or is it just me because it knows where I am sat? I suspect I was being targeted due to the "Support the Guardian from as little as $1 - it only takes a minute. Thank you." at the end.

America faces an epic choice...
... in the coming year, and the results will define the country for a generation. These are perilous times. Over the last three years, much of what the Guardian holds dear has been threatened – democracy, civility, truth. This US administration is establishing new norms of behaviour. Anger and cruelty disfigure public discourse and lying is commonplace. Truth is being chased away. But with your help we can continue to put it center stage.

Rampant disinformation, partisan news sources and social media's tsunami of fake news is no basis on which to inform the American public in 2020. The need for a robust, independent press has never been greater, and with your support we can continue to provide fact-based reporting that offers public scrutiny and oversight. You’ve read more than 14 articles in the last four months. Our journalism is free and open for all, but it's made possible thanks to the support we receive from readers like you across America in all 50 states.

Our journalism relies on our readers’ generosity – your financial support has meant we can keep investigating, disentangling and interrogating. It has protected our independence, which has never been so critical. We are so grateful.

We hope you will consider supporting us today. We need your support to keep delivering quality journalism that’s open and independent. Every reader contribution, however big or small, is so valuable. Support the Guardian from as little as $1 - it only takes a minute. Thank you.

Invariably, those that read the Guardian are only too happy to inform you. That certain newspapers are quite capable of affecting certain elements of the population's minds.

It doesn't, however, occur to them, that the newspaper they read , is offering confirmatory bias to themselves!

They believe that the "right wing " press feeds it readership biased lies. That then forms their, morally inferior, unthinking opinions.

Whereas the newspapers they read, simply reflect what its , already free thinking and enlightened readership feels.

The Guardian- a biased newspaper , for those who are far too smart to be biased......

[KateR]

Ringo,
sorry but it's not helpful, I would prefer to stick with simple things, am just asking if when the UK readers open the Guardian, do they get a political statement like the one I showed for the US or a similar political statement for the UK. Also would be interested if when any international Claret fan from the forum saw a political statement regarding the country they reside in when they open the same link? I do not want to argue politics on this thread or point fingers, this is just curiosity, more on the way they approach readers and the marketing/revenue ploy. Perhaps better to delete your post and I will do the same.

[thatdberight]

Ringo,
sorry but it's not helpful, I would prefer to stick with simple things, am just asking if when the UK readers open the Guardian, do they get a political statement like the one I showed for the US or a similar political statement for the UK. Also would be interested if when any international Claret fan from the forum saw a political statement regarding the country they reside in when they open the same link? I do not want to argue politics on this thread or point fingers, this is just curiosity, more on the way they approach readers and the marketing/revenue ploy. Perhaps better to delete your post and I will do the same.

I think it changes (always with the punchline - "give us a quid") but I've never seen anything as direct as that. Currently just some blurb:

"Support the Guardian
Trust has never mattered more. With your support we can continue to provide our measured, accurate, independent reporting – in times of crisis and beyond"

Obviously, I cannot tell how much that sounds like parody to me - but apparently they mean it...

[KateR]

I think it changes (always with the punchline - "give us a quid") but I've never seen anything as direct as that. Currently just some blurb:

"Support the Guardian
Trust has never mattered more. With your support we can continue to provide our measured, accurate, independent reporting – in times of crisis and beyond"

Obviously, I cannot tell how much that sounds like parody to me - but apparently they mean it...

thank you for the info, much appreciated

[Taffy on the wing]

Ringo,
sorry but it's not helpful, I would prefer to stick with simple things, am just asking if when the UK readers open the Guardian, do they get a political statement like the one I showed for the US or a similar political statement for the UK. Also would be interested if when any international Claret fan from the forum saw a political statement regarding the country they reside in when they open the same link? I do not want to argue politics on this thread or point fingers, this is just curiosity, more on the way they approach readers and the marketing/revenue ploy. Perhaps better to delete your post and I will do the same.

Talking to yourself in public again i see!

[Bfcboyo]

Talking to yourself in public again i see! As I sit here in solitary loneliness at 1.51 am. Stroking ideas out to have a little dig here and there against my foe list. Muuuaaaahhh

[Spijed]

Why is the UK predicted to have thousands more deaths than even the USA using this model?

Doesn't make sense.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom

[AndrewJB]

A report from Washington. https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-f ... rbage-bags

[CombatClaret]

A report from Washington. https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-f ... rbage-bags

Denying there's an issue, distracted internal politics, delaying effective reaction, failing to procure equipment in time. Has an oddly familiar ring to it.

[thatdberight]

Why is the UK predicted to have thousands more deaths than even the USA using this model?

Doesn't make sense.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom

Because Tories are bad, to summarise Combat Claret's predictable response.

I don't know. Some of their base data looks weird for us. Nobody says we have only 799 ICU beds, for example.

[CombatClaret]

Because Tories are bad, to summarise Combat Claret's predictable response.

I don't know. Some of their base data looks weird for us. Nobody says we have only 799 ICU beds, for example.

I agree the data looks very odd, just down to sheer population size and their current numbers I can't see a turn around like that.

Always happy to look at the facts and figures in front of me before I race to some politically motivated conclusion.

[thatdberight]

I agree the data looks very odd, just down to sheer population size and their current numbers I can't see a turn around like that.

Always happy to look at the facts and figures in front of me before I race to some politically motivated conclusion.

They're a credible source without an axe to grind, so it's to be taken seriously at first glance. Whichever countries do "worst" out if this (and that's not just about deaths) will have to look and learn.

By the way, I don't think people on both sides of our usual political discourse are far away on some of the issues in our healthcare in this country. We are, probably, a million miles away in terms of the solution but the issues are less divisive. So when somebody, like me, doesn't just support an extra 1 or 2 percent of GDP into the NHS that's not because I think there are no problems with our overall health provision.

[CombatClaret]

They're a credible source without an axe to grind, so it's to be taken seriously at first glance. Whichever countries do "worst" out if this (and that's not just about deaths) will have to look and learn.

I just feel the time to 'look and learn' was February-March time.

[CombatClaret]

Why is the UK predicted to have thousands more deaths than even the USA using this model?
Doesn't make sense.
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom

assuming full social distancing -this is a major assumption, especially in the United States of Do Whatever the F**K I Want.

[AndrewJB]

Invariably, those that read the Guardian are only too happy to inform you. That certain newspapers are quite capable of affecting certain elements of the population's minds.

It doesn't, however, occur to them, that the newspaper they read , is offering confirmatory bias to themselves!

They believe that the "right wing " press feeds it readership biased lies. That then forms their, morally inferior, unthinking opinions.

Whereas the newspapers they read, simply reflect what its , already free thinking and enlightened readership feels.

The Guardian- a biased newspaper , for those who are far too smart to be biased......

Newspapers owned by billionaires advocate for policies that benefit the rich. They act as propaganda for the Tory Party, which looks after the interests of the rich. These papers have all been attacked to a greater or lesser degree in the recent Leveson Inquiry, where it came out that many papers were breaking the law - hacking phones, bribing police, one paper was shut down, and then the Tory Party shut the inquiry down before it could consider more serious concerns - again looking after the interests or the rich men who support the party. The Guardian wasn’t dragged into all of this. Why do the rightwing rags feed readers biased nonsense? Because they and the government collude in the interests of themselves - the rich.

Who owns the Guardian, and in whose interests do they write “biased” articles? There is nobody - no group, no person set to gain from the editorial stance of the Guardian / Observer. Just as it’s funded by a wide variety of people, it acts in the interests of a wide variety of people. It is not spinning for rich spivs - and that is our choice, between right wing propaganda, or news.

[thatdberight]

Newspapers owned by billionaires advocate for policies that benefit the rich. They act as propaganda for the Tory Party, which looks after the interests of the rich. These papers have all been attacked to a greater or lesser degree in the recent Leveson Inquiry, where it came out that many papers were breaking the law - hacking phones, bribing police, one paper was shut down, and then the Tory Party shut the inquiry down before it could consider more serious concerns - again looking after the interests or the rich men who support the party. The Guardian wasn’t dragged into all of this. Why do the rightwing rags feed readers biased nonsense? Because they and the government collude in the interests of themselves - the rich.

Who owns the Guardian, and in whose interests do they write “biased” articles? There is nobody - no group, no person set to gain from the editorial stance of the Guardian / Observer. Just as it’s funded by a wide variety of people, it acts in the interests of a wide variety of people. It is not spinning for rich spivs - and that is our choice, between right wing propaganda, or news.

Just because you rant something repeatedly doesn't make it true. Other than to you.