Covid-19

[Grumps]

It’s not random. It’s supposed to be key workers and family members they are living with who are displaying symptoms but the messaging has been poor. I suspect that’s why the system has crashed today as key workers without symptoms were applying for tests.

Has the messaging been poor? Or have people just ignored it. The full page advert in today's press quite clearly states essential workers with symptoms, as did the briefing yesterday.

[martin_p]

Has the messaging been poor? Or have people just ignored it. The full page advert in today's press quite clearly states essential workers with symptoms, as did the briefing yesterday.

Maybe it’s the reporting of it then, but a number of the media outlets just led with ‘tests for all essential workers’. By the way, a full page advert in newspapers really isn’t the best way of getting your message across these days, especially at a time that fewer people are shopping every day. They needed some sort of public information film on tv and across social media explaining who it was for and how to access it.

[dsr]

Firstly if you drive to Foulridge to go for a walk then of course that’s premeditated !!
As for thinking it would be reasonable to do so that is because you are ignoring the advice to remain local or making up your own definition of local to suit yourself. We are being asked when we go shopping to stay local - that is a good indicator of what they mean by local. Would you classify your “local shop” as somewhere 30 miles away ?

Hardly relevant for Burnley to Foulridge. It's less than 10 miles.

Here's a possible guideline for fairness on all sides. Define "local" the same way in both directions. So if it's OK for people from a village to come into town for their shopping because they prefer the supermarket to their own local store; then it is also OK for people from the town to visit that village or equivalent distance because they prefer the walks there to the walks round town.

Fair?

[tiger76]

It’s not random. It’s supposed to be key workers and family members they are living with who are displaying symptoms but the messaging has been poor. I suspect that’s why the system has crashed today as key workers without symptoms were applying for tests.

The messaging in general has been poor during this crisis,what was needed was clear guidance and leadership from the whole government,not conflicting statements and advice which could left open to misinterpretation,Sunak apart i'd rate the rest of them as 5/10.

Whatever your political viewpoints the one thing you can't deny is that Nicola Sturgeon has been clear and concise in her messaging,and the Scottish Government have provided a constant message,along with frank up-to-date statistical data,facts and consistency are precisely what is required during a crisis not rhetoric.

[TVC15]

Hardly relevant for Burnley to Foulridge. It's less than 10 miles.

Here's a possible guideline for fairness on all sides. Define "local" the same way in both directions. So if it's OK for people from a village to come into town for their shopping because they prefer the supermarket to their own local store; then it is also OK for people from the town to visit that village or equivalent distance because they prefer the walks there to the walks round town.

Fair?

I think the Foulridge example actually started as travelling 45 minutes for whoever posted it originally. My thoughts were that if you are travelling 45 minutes in a car that’s usually between 20 and 30 miles and my understanding of the guidelines and what they are trying to achieve in keeping people off the roads both in volume and length of journey was that was too long.

My view was about the 20 to 30 mile journey (one way) being neither local nor “essential travel” rather than Foulridge for anyone who lives in Burnley

[tiger76]

Maybe it’s the reporting of it then, but a number of the media outlets just led with ‘tests for all essential workers’. By the way, a full page advert in newspapers really isn’t the best way of getting your message across these days, especially at a time that fewer people are shopping every day. They needed some sort of public information film on tv and across social media explaining who it was for and how to access it.

Yes a public information film across various media outlets,would have been the most effective method of getting the precise message across to the public.last night during The Big Night In would have been the ideal slot,and then spreading the message over social media,which everybody is accessing more these days.The first i heard about it was reading on here this morning,and then checking the BBC website,but the only reason it was a news story was purely the fact that the website crashed,otherwise i'd likely be none the wiser,now if someone like myself doesn't know,it doesn't matter,however if someone in the key worker category doesn't know,that could create problems.

So just to be clear,it's only essential workers who are displaying symptoms,who'll be eligible for this testing initially,and their family members,presumably the family members are just people in the same household,as the said key workers,or is that incorrect also.

[martin_p]

Yes a public information film across various media outlets,would have been the most effective method of getting the precise message across to the public.last night during The Big Night In would have been the ideal slot,and then spreading the message over social media,which everybody is accessing more these days.The first i heard about it was reading on here this morning,and then checking the BBC website,but the only reason it was a news story was purely the fact that the website crashed,otherwise i'd likely be none the wiser,now if someone like myself doesn't know,it doesn't matter,however if someone in the key worker category doesn't know,that could create problems.

So just to be clear,it's only essential workers who are displaying symptoms,who'll be eligible for this testing initially,and their family members,presumably the family members are just people in the same household,as the said key workers,or is that incorrect also.

Yes, it’s all essential workers (as defined by the government) and members of their household displaying symptoms who can book a test.

[Devils_Advocate]

Just to add it reads to me that tests are available to everyone in the household if anyone in the household has symptoms.

So if one person in a key workers household is showing symptoms all people can book a test. Not 100% thats correct but definitely how the website reads to me

[tiger76]

Yes, it’s all essential workers (as defined by the government) and members of their household displaying symptoms who can book a test.

Splendid! i hope that's made crystal clear in the daily briefing later,because there isn't half some confusion,either the messaging isn't clear enough,or it's not being reported as it should be,whatever the reason it needs clarifying ASAP.

[martin_p]

Just to add it reads to me that tests are available to everyone in the household if anyone in the household has symptoms.

So if one person in a key workers household is showing symptoms all people can book a test. Not 100% thats correct but definitely how the website reads to me

It hasn’t been that clear but you’re supposed to have symptoms before you apply for the test whether you’re an essential worker or a member of their household.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronaviru ... ing-tested - see ‘who can be tested’

[Grumps]

Splendid! i hope that's made crystal clear in the daily briefing later,because there isn't half some confusion,either the messaging isn't clear enough,or it's not being reported as it should be,whatever the reason it needs clarifying ASAP.

It was made clear at yesterday’s briefing
Lots of articles on the net
Lots in the press
Lots on the TV news
Yet people blame the government for not getting the message out

[tiger76]

It was made clear at yesterday’s briefing
Lots of articles on the net
Lots in the press
Lots on the TV news
Yet people blame the government for not getting the message out

I did add the media might be at fault for not correctly reporting the information,but you conveniently ignored that.

[martin_p]

It was made clear at yesterday’s briefing
Lots of articles on the net
Lots in the press
Lots on the TV news
Yet people blame the government for not getting the message out

Thing is, we’re talking about people working, not sat at home watching tv or surfing the net.

[Devils_Advocate]

It hasn’t been that clear but you’re supposed to have symptoms before you apply for the test whether you’re an essential worker or a member of their household.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronaviru ... ing-tested - see ‘who can be tested’

Yep it just illustrates Tigers point about a wider and more clear communication strategy. The govt webpage I saw it on didn't have the full clarity and was worded like everyone could have the test if anyone showed symptoms

I know its not easy but it feels like the govt are shooting themselves in the foot a lot. They would get rid of a lot of criticism and turn some of it into real support if they could just be more transparent and get people to understand whats going on and why a bit better

[Grumps]

I did add the media might be at fault for not correctly reporting the information,but you conveniently ignored that.

No I didn't, isnt tv, the net, news etc the media? From what I've seen in the media, it's been very clear.

[Grumps]

Thing is, we’re talking about people working, not sat at home watching tv or surfing the net.

So working people don't have access to any information?

Plus iam talking to people on here, who are obviously sat somewhere on the net.

[tiger76]

No I didn't, isnt tv, the net, news etc the media? From what I've seen in the media, it's been very clear.

Well i'm glad it's been very clear to you,but obviously that's not been the case universally,hence the confusion.

As i stated the government should be able to clarify this misunderstanding at the daily briefing.

[martin_p]

This is what Matt Hancock said on the radio this morning:

“If you have symptoms or somebody else in your household has symptoms, then you can go online to Gov.uk and self-refer for a test – that’s a new system up and running this morning.”

That implies that a key worker can apply for a test for themselves if a family member is showing symptoms, as I said the messaging has been far from clear.

[tiger76]

UK death toll rises by 684
A further 684 patients have died with coronavirus in UK hospitals, the Department of Health has confirmed.

The deaths are those recorded in the 24 hours prior to 17:00 BST on Thursday.

Meanwhile, a further 18,401 people have been tested for coronavirus as of 09:00 on Friday - with 5,386 testing positive for Covid-19.

I note the testing's falling again,23,000+ down to 18,000+,how on earth is it going to be anywhere near 100.000 per day in a week,they promised 25,000 a day by mid April,and we still haven't hit that yet.

Deaths marginally up,but still well below the peak of 980,as has been constantly stated they'll be the last figures to start dropping alas.

[CombatClaret]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... s-pandemic

2019 another report highlighting risks of corona virus outbreak and the need to stockpiling of PPE, testing, tracing etc.

The amount of times in the last decade the warnings have been given, the advise laid down and they have been ignored or inadequacy implemented...

[martin_p]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... s-pandemic

2019 another report highlighting risks of corona virus outbreak and the need to stockpiling of PPE, testing, tracing etc.

The amount of times in the last decade the warnings have been given, the advise laid down and they have been ignored or inadequacy implemented...

The government have spent the last four years obsessed with Brexit, little else got done.

[Lowbankclaret]

So if we don't slaughter cows and we let them fly planes instead we get warmer weather ?

No Flying aircraft it is claimed is keeping the planet cool by polluting the atmosphere, hence with 80% grounded we are likely to have the hottest April for 300-400 years.

Environmentalilists have been claiming cows were causing the earth to heat up. I am suggesting they have little impact and other factors have a much larger impact.

[TVC15]

UK death toll rises by 684
A further 684 patients have died with coronavirus in UK hospitals, the Department of Health has confirmed.

The deaths are those recorded in the 24 hours prior to 17:00 BST on Thursday.

Meanwhile, a further 18,401 people have been tested for coronavirus as of 09:00 on Friday - with 5,386 testing positive for Covid-19.

I note the testing's falling again,23,000+ down to 18,000+,how on earth is it going to be anywhere near 100.000 per day in a week,they promised 25,000 a day by mid April,and we still haven't hit that yet.

Deaths marginally up,but still well below the peak of 980,as has been constantly stated they'll be the last figures to start dropping alas.

Re testing the language started to change a few days ago into testing “capacity”. This will be how it is from here on in till they finally reach the levels - whenever that is or if they ever actually do.

[Lowbankclaret]

Re testing the language started to change a few days ago into testing “capacity”. This will be how it is from here on in till they finally reach the levels - whenever that is or if they ever actually do.

He did seem very confident that they would reach the 100,000 capacity this morning. We just don’t have sight of the plan, if we did we might be more confident.
I hope he gets there so we really know the spread of the virus.

Yesterday’s Cuomo presentation was good, they have been doing antibody testing, even with their epidemic it appears only around 18% have people have had it and have antibodies.
Normally on about 5 on CNN,
Well worth a watch.

[TVC15]

He did seem very confident that they would reach the 100,000 capacity this morning. We just don’t have sight of the plan, if we did we might be more confident.
I hope he gets there so we really know the spread of the virus.

Yesterday’s Cuomo presentation was good, they have been doing antibody testing, even with their epidemic it appears only around 18% have people have had it and have antibodies.
Normally on about 5 on CNN,
Well worth a watch.

Even you have said capacity - see the brainwashing change in language is beginning to work !!

Well done Lowbank by the way on those masks - great thing to do.

[Spijed]

I'll bet not a single country in Europe is looking at our testing programme with envy.

Germany must think we are a bunch of amateurs

[KateR]

It's not just the UK in messages and instructions, in Houston and Texas generally we have not been hit all that hard when comparing against others. Here though it's different we have the Governor, the Mayor, and a Judge all making decisions that impact life. Houston Mayor shut down entertainment very quickly, which I thought was a good move plus the Judge added a few things, said judge now has a class action lawsuit against her from several Churches.

As we move to come out of this the Mayor announced several mechanisms Monday, State Parks reopened immediately but people must most stick to social distancing for example. Some businesses will be allowed to open but need to be a certain size and social distancing remains. Yet he says a new law has been passed that from this Monday all citizens MUST wear masks when outside, no exceptions, this followed by several sheriffs etc. talking about fines, severe penalties. Then that was followed up by, no one will be penalized for not wearing a mask, if you are caught/stopped by police you will be given a mask to wear. Then to add to all this the Governor was on last night and questioned about Houston's mandatory mask program from Monday, response, we are looking at this and will soon make a decision on whether this is the best thing to do and there might be a change regarding this policy.

[taio]

I'll bet not a single country in Europe is looking at our testing programme with envy.

Germany must think we are a bunch of amateurs

Huge difference in starting point when comparing Germany to the UK and many other countries so, yes, they probably do think that.

[Lowbankclaret]

Even you have said capacity - see the brainwashing change in language is beginning to work !!

Well done Lowbank by the way on those masks - great thing to do.

I note the change in words, but if they are available you cannot make people take them.

The website crashing was not good.

I think the testing stations need to be doubled to at least 100.

As a manufacturing engineering all I can do is make things, it’s what we do, just glad it’s helping people.

[TVC15]

I note the change in words, but if they are available you cannot make people take them.

The website crashing was not good.

I think the testing stations need to be doubled to at least 100.

As a manufacturing engineering all I can do is make things, it’s what we do, just glad it’s helping people.

They aren’t really available if you can’t apply or get to a testing station though. Having the capacity is only part of it. Remember a lot of people who need it will be working or not near a testing station etc.
Like you say we need more stations and we also need it to be delivered via Amazon so they can be self administered. They said they are talking to Amazon so hopefully that will be operational soon.

Seems strange making it available to teachers at the same time as nurses / doctors

[Paul Waine]

Like I said....still no Mr Dyson ventilator

And, latest news, Dyson's ventilators "no longer required

BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52409359

[Paul Waine]

They aren’t really available if you can’t apply or get to a testing station though. Having the capacity is only part of it. Remember a lot of people who need it will be working or not near a testing station etc.
Like you say we need more stations and we also need it to be delivered via Amazon so they can be self administered. They said they are talking to Amazon so hopefully that will be operational soon.

Seems strange making it available to teachers at the same time as nurses / doctors

Hi TVC15, you might have missed today's briefing: if you need the test, you have symptoms and you should already be self-isolating - you shouldn't be at work. An approximate quote from Jenny Harries - her response to a journalist who asked, "but the person may be a shift worker...."

[TVC15]

Hi TVC15, you might have missed today's briefing: if you need the test, you have symptoms and you should already be self-isolating - you shouldn't be at work. An approximate quote from Jenny Harries - her response to a journalist who asked, "but the person may be a shift worker...."

Hi Paul
I did miss the briefing thanks.
I thought people on here were saying you could have the test if you were a key worker and your family had shown symptoms.
That seems even stranger that it’s only key workers who are self isolating. As we know many people who have it don’t show symptoms.

[Paul Waine]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... s-pandemic

2019 another report highlighting risks of corona virus outbreak and the need to stockpiling of PPE, testing, tracing etc.

The amount of times in the last decade the warnings have been given, the advise laid down and they have been ignored or inadequacy implemented...

Hi Combat, it may be that the gov't followed the advice in the 2019 report.

According to the Guardian link: The Cabinet Office document, which runs to more than 600 pages, not only analysed the risk of a viral flu pandemic but also specifically addressed the potential for a coronavirus outbreak (the earlier Sars and Mers were both coronaviruses), though it regarded this as potentially much less damaging.

So, the NRSA concluded that a coronavirus outbreak as potentially much less damaging - which may explain the early COBR "low" risk decisions.

[taio]

They aren’t really available if you can’t apply or get to a testing station though. Having the capacity is only part of it. Remember a lot of people who need it will be working or not near a testing station etc.
Like you say we need more stations and we also need it to be delivered via Amazon so they can be self administered. They said they are talking to Amazon so hopefully that will be operational soon.

Seems strange making it available to teachers at the same time as nurses / doctors

They shouldn't be working - it's for people who have been symptomatic for just a few days and self isolating, not an antibody test. Symptomatic nurses and doctors were already being tested prior to yesterday's announcement. Lack of prioritisation of key workers should give confidence there is capacity and growing capacity for testing. There are also going to be a variety of delivery methods. Capacity to do the 100,000 is a crucial measure.

[Paul Waine]

Hi Paul
I did miss the briefing thanks.
I thought people on here were saying you could have the test if you were a key worker and your family had shown symptoms.
That seems even stranger that it’s only key workers who are self isolating. As we know many people who have it don’t show symptoms.

I'm pretty sure that the message has been - since mid-March - that if you have the symptoms then you must self-isolate for 7 days and, if a member of your household has symptoms then the household must self-isolate for 14 days.

I get that it's easy to lose sight of the key message. I'm not sure what the journalist's colleagues will be saying to him after he asked how shift workers could access the site. It's why the simple, key message needs to be repeated and repeated again. People forget if the aren't reminded.

It's also why all these questions about "when are we exiting?" and "how will we exit?" are not helpful questions to ask - people will forget the critical key messages when they hear something else.

[taio]

Hi Paul
I did miss the briefing thanks.
I thought people on here were saying you could have the test if you were a key worker and your family had shown symptoms.
That seems even stranger that it’s only key workers who are self isolating. As we know many people who have it don’t show symptoms.

A key worker without symptoms can be tested if they are living with someone who is symptomatic. But they should be self isolating for longer i.e. 14 days.

[Grumps]

I note the change in words, but if they are available you cannot make people take them.

The website crashing was not good.

I think the testing stations need to be doubled to at least 100.

As a manufacturing engineering all I can do is make things, it’s what we do, just glad it’s helping people.

According to the briefing the website didn't crash
All slots were taken up, more came online about 5pm,when full, the website will shut again till tomorrow when more slots come available. A bit like online groceries
I do realise some prefer the website crashing a better story.

[Inchy]

At the moment where I am working things have gone a bit quiet. In my job I review patients who are sick on the ward, try to fix them with the home teams, and if need be take them to ICU and get them sorted a bit there.

Currently covid referrals are massively down which is good. But also other medical and surgical referrals are down. Post op sepsis issues because elective surgery is on hold. Even things like pancreatitis referrals seems to be down, perhaps because people are ignoring that dull ache they have, which isn’t a good idea as ignoring a medical problem usually creates a bigger problem.

We have beds. Loads. Both on the wards and critical care. It’s strange. A lot are still scuppering to covid but they are generally very old with multiple pre-existing issues so never get referred to me for critical care.

I suspect the large conference centre hospitals may not be used but if they are it will be the second spike. Also hospitals will have to restart the elective stuff. Ignoring that will create long term issues. I suspect I will be very busy soon with patient who have ignored non-covid issues as they did not want to go to hospital/GP


It’s weird I’m getting clapped for doing less work than normal

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

No Flying aircraft it is claimed is keeping the planet cool by polluting the atmosphere, hence with 80% grounded we are likely to have the hottest April for 300-400 years.

Environmentalilists have been claiming cows were causing the earth to heat up. I am suggesting they have little impact and other factors have a much larger impact.

Hottest April for 300-400 years?????

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

At the moment where I am working things have gone a bit quiet. In my job I review patients who are sick on the ward, try to fix them with the home teams, and if need be take them to ICU and get them sorted a bit there.

Currently covid referrals are massively down which is good. But also other medical and surgical referrals are down. Post op sepsis issues because elective surgery is on hold. Even things like pancreatitis referrals seems to be down, perhaps because people are ignoring that dull ache they have, which isn’t a good idea as ignoring a medical problem usually creates a bigger problem.

We have beds. Loads. Both on the wards and critical care. It’s strange. A lot are still scuppering to covid but they are generally very old with multiple pre-existing issues so never get referred to me for critical care.

I suspect the large conference centre hospitals may not be used but if they are it will be the second spike. Also hospitals will have to restart the elective stuff. Ignoring that will create long term issues. I suspect I will be very busy soon with patient who have ignored non-covid issues as they did not want to go to hospital/GP

Good to read your update Inchy. Great to hear that covoid referrals are down.

[taio]

At the moment where I am working things have gone a bit quiet. In my job I review patients who are sick on the ward, try to fix them with the home teams, and if need be take them to ICU and get them sorted a bit there.

Currently covid referrals are massively down which is good. But also other thins are down. Post op sepsis issues because elective surgery is on hold. Even things like pancreatitis referrals seems to be down, perhaps because people are ignoring that dull ache they have, which isn’t a good idea as ignoring a medical problem usually creates a bigger problem.

We have beds. Loads. Both on the wards and critical care. It’s strange. A lot are still scuppering to covid but they are generally very old with multiple pre-existing issues so never get referred to me for critical care.

I suspect the large conference centre hospitals may not be used but if they are it will be the second spike. Also hospitals will have to restart the elective stuff. Ignoring that will create long term issues. I suspect I will be very busy soon with patient who have ignored non-covid issues as they did not want to go to hospital/GP

It's a huge achievement what's happened in managing capacity in and by the NHS. This was rightly a major governemt priority because it would have been catastrophic if acute settings became totally overwhelmed. Bed occupancy in this area has been around 60% and sometimes less which as you'll certainly know is unheard of. Long may it continue and that the recovery beds and nightingale type hospitals are not needed , and focus can start to be placed on elective care as you say.

[CombatClaret]

Cummings is on secret scientific advisory group for Covid-19
Leaked list reveals presence of Johnson adviser and Vote Leave ally on supposedly independent body
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... r-covid-19

So that's what they mean when they say they're following the science...

Independent scientific advice my 8rse.
If Cumming's is in SAGE offering up his 'wisdom' it ceases to be a Scientific Advisory Group.

[Lowbankclaret]

According to the briefing the website didn't crash
All slots were taken up, more came online about 5pm,when full, the website will shut again till tomorrow when more slots come available. A bit like online groceries
I do realise some prefer the website crashing a better story.

Oh let’s attack lowbank.
I read earlier to it had crashed.
Happy to be corrected, but no need for the histrionics.

[Lowbankclaret]

At the moment where I am working things have gone a bit quiet. In my job I review patients who are sick on the ward, try to fix them with the home teams, and if need be take them to ICU and get them sorted a bit there.

Currently covid referrals are massively down which is good. But also other medical and surgical referrals are down. Post op sepsis issues because elective surgery is on hold. Even things like pancreatitis referrals seems to be down, perhaps because people are ignoring that dull ache they have, which isn’t a good idea as ignoring a medical problem usually creates a bigger problem.

We have beds. Loads. Both on the wards and critical care. It’s strange. A lot are still scuppering to covid but they are generally very old with multiple pre-existing issues so never get referred to me for critical care.

I suspect the large conference centre hospitals may not be used but if they are it will be the second spike. Also hospitals will have to restart the elective stuff. Ignoring that will create long term issues. I suspect I will be very busy soon with patient who have ignored non-covid issues as they did not want to go to hospital/GP


It’s weird I’m getting clapped for doing less work than normal

Well I say that’s a good thing.

Let’s also wish for no second spike.

[Lowbankclaret]

Hottest April for 300-400 years?????

Let’s see!!!

[jrgbfc]

I'd love to hear how the Tories justify Dominic Cummings being on the scientific advisory group. Why don't we just make him prime minister, he seems to be the one running the country?

[Lowbankclaret]

I'd love to hear how the Tories justify Dominic Cummings being on the scientific advisory group. Why don't we just make him prime minister, he seems to be the one running the country?

It does appear that way.
Almost a pseudo prime minister.

[martin_p]

According to the briefing the website didn't crash
All slots were taken up, more came online about 5pm,when full, the website will shut again till tomorrow when more slots come available. A bit like online groceries
I do realise some prefer the website crashing a better story.

It’s a shame the pre-publicity and the website itself didn’t mention that then isn’t it. It’s almost like they’ve made up the reason for it happening after it happened.

[mdd2]

Try Russia