Covid-19

[Zlatan]

Things would have been so different with Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Long Bailey at the helm

Indeed, they may well have closed the airports 3 months ago; listened to the scientific advice and acted on it (not their own interpretation of it to suit their own ends); they wouldn’t have had a PPE shortage as we would have been supplied by the EU; same for ventilators.

But let’s not let a Tory clusterfuck stop anyone from trying to deflect blame because Corbyn WASN’T in charge Boris is. The whole “what would Corbyn have done” is totally irrelevant and it is designed to deflect attention away from what HAS been done by Boris and his cabinet. What is relevant is what HAS actually occurred - airport remained open with no checks; PPE shortages; missed emails offering assistance from the EU; lack of clarity for guidelines; lockdown too late;... etc etc etc...

[martin_p]

I'm no fan of Boris, he's a liar, a chancer and totally unsuitable to be Prime Minister and his cabinet is the most useless bunch of no marks I can remember.

However, there's a worrying trend brought on by the lockdown where everyone is becoming infantilised. We all have a lot of information now about how to avoid spreading the virus. All these endless 'yes but can I play catch in the park with my cousin on a Wednesday?' type questions.. jeez, you've all still got minds.

You don't need every last eventuality spelling out for you. I can work from home so I do. I don't go and see my friends. I don't go to my parents. I go to the shops and take the kids out for exercise. My missus goes to work because she has to but is careful. We all know what we should do. Pretending to be utterly baffled by a fairly simple policy just because your whole day isn't mapped out for you like some primary school child is getting tiresome.

Asking people to think selflessly and with common sense just months after asking them to vote Tory is like asking someone to walk a tightrope after plying them with booze.

[martin_p]

Things would have been so different with Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Long Bailey at the helm

How long are we going to try and excuse poor government with ‘well it could have been worse’?

[Zlatan]

Asking people to think selflessly and with common sense just months after asking them to vote Tory is like asking someone to walk a tightrope after plying them with booze.

Just spat my tea out

[aggi]

This was one of my favourite slides yesterday:



This puts the alert level at 0.7 + 219,000 = 219,000.7.

A little concerning as we were previously at level 4.

[Zlatan]

This was one of my favourite slides yesterday:



This puts the alert level at 0.7 + 219,000 = 219,000.7.

A little concerning as we were previously at level 4.

It was only on screen for a fraction of a second, but that was my first thought too

[TheFamilyCat]

Johnson must know last night’s announcement has gone down badly as he’s cancelled today’s COVID press conference and replaced it with a q&a session with selected members of the public. Much better to have vetted questions from the public than those nasty journalists when things aren’t going as planned.

Question one, from a Mr Ringo McCartney of Burnley: "Mr Johnson, would you like to shag my wife?"

[fatboy47]

Question one, from a Mr Ringo McCartney of Burnley: "Mr Johnson, would you like to shag my wife?"

answer....""too late pal, I boned her last year""

[Devils_Advocate]

Just an observation but when Brexit voters were labelled as stupid it was held up as why these sneering, condescending elitist remain / Labour voters were out of touch with normal working people and why they lost

Suddenly its perfectly fine for all these right wing Tory apologists to put the blame on stupid people and there is absolutely zero self awareness of their double standards

Pictures of commuters on London underground this morning looked horrific in the circumstances and if this leads to a spike in deaths I just hope people have the courage and integrity to put the blame on the govt and not try and deflect it on to 'stupid people' or use some kind of attack on Londoners like they are the new immigrants to attribute blame to

[CombatClaret]

This puts the alert level at 0.7 + 219,000 = 219,000.7.

Infection rate 'we think' is between 0.5 & 0.9

But we can't know without mass testing...

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Indeed, they may well have closed the airports 3 months ago; listened to the scientific advice and acted on it (not their own interpretation of it to suit their own ends); they wouldn’t have had a PPE shortage as we would have been supplied by the EU; same for ventilators.

But let’s not let a Tory clusterfuck stop anyone from trying to deflect blame because Corbyn WASN’T in charge Boris is. The whole “what would Corbyn have done” is totally irrelevant and it is designed to deflect attention away from what HAS been done by Boris and his cabinet. What is relevant is what HAS actually occurred - airport remained open with no checks; PPE shortages; missed emails offering assistance from the EU; lack of clarity for guidelines; lockdown too late;... etc etc etc...

In regards to PPE, how much has the EU supplied to its member states?
When you consider countries like France and Germany basically banned the exporting of it.

https://www.ft.com/content/8c0a29fc-a52 ... 5a2dcc8faa

[evensteadiereddie]

How come we were so short of PPE in the first place ?

[Grumps]

How come we were so short of PPE in the first place ?

I think the answers about 50 pages back...

[aggi]

Just an observation but when Brexit voters were labelled as stupid it was held up as why these sneering, condescending elitist remain / Labour voters were out of touch with normal working people and why they lost

Suddenly its perfectly fine for all these right wing Tory apologists to put the blame on stupid people and there is absolutely zero self awareness of their double standards

Pictures of commuters on London underground this morning looked horrific in the circumstances and if this leads to a spike in deaths I just hope people have the courage and integrity to put the blame on the govt and not try and deflect it on to 'stupid people' or use some kind of attack on Londoners like they are the new immigrants to attribute blame to

The commuting will be a significant issue in London. Only 50% or so of households in London have a car and I would suspect that is probably weighted towards more affluent workers who are more likely to be working from home. On top of that is just a massive lack of parking (and in particular affordable parking) in many areas of central London. If a lot of places do start returning to work it is hard to see how this will be managed.

[jackmiggins]

France have agreement not to quarantine arrivals from E. U. And UK. and same for their subjects travelling into those countries

I can see other countries reaching similar agreements, but with the caveat that if a certain country has a sudden rise in cases, the agreement could be lifted. It would be strange to be able to fly from France, but not Spain Portugal or anywhere else in Europe.

So ok if our politicians come to an agreement with others?? You are seriously delusional.

[jackmiggins]

You really need to check your previous posts, and the various posts you've made accusing me of all sorts because of a holiday taken in February, and your insults in those posts.
You even said you'd get grief off certain posters once you mentioned cheap march holidays. I seem to recall one post where you accused be of having to return on a repatriation flight

Sorry, been busy this morning - you trolled me and then let on about your guilt ridden holiday. I have no interest in you or your political opinions. I’m non political regarding this predicament WE are in. I view my thoughts as reasoned - yours certainly are not. Goodbye

[Devils_Advocate]

In regards to PPE, how much has the EU supplied to its member states?
When you consider countries like France and Germany basically banned the exporting of it.

https://www.ft.com/content/8c0a29fc-a52 ... 5a2dcc8faa

I believe they have built up and mobilised their first reserve of PPE stock (FFP2 Masks) and have distributed around 1.5m pieces of equipment to the countrys most in need

They will continue to work to build up reserves of other PPE and this has always been about the long game (the squabbling between pro and anti govt people in this country has led to the EU procurement process being discussed and judged in very much misleading terms)

Just on the point of Germany they at the moment are taking a leading role in securing PPE on behalf of those in this scheme

There is understanding that countrys will take a dual approach where they are free to act as a single nation securing what they need and as you highlighted ensuring that equipment manufactured within their country doesn't get sold off for profit when they need it. Alongside this the scheme will pool resources to secure distribution lines of PPE stock that they can manage centrally for the greater good

Personally at this stage I don't think we've missed out on anything by not joining but equally had we signed up it would have not stopped us doing anything we have and could do without being a member so it seems illogical not to join as its a no lose situation.

The contention around this was more that when it was unclear how effective the scheme would be and whether it might protect our citizens lives the govt seemed to take a decision on more ideological grounds which if true is disgraceful

[joey13]

And now advice is to wear facemasks ,the ever changing science,what a shambles

[Grumps]

So ok if our politicians come to an agreement with others?? You are seriously delusional.

Just saying what has, and what could happen, having listened to it being discussed
Never said I agree or disagree, so shut up.

[Grumps]

Sorry, been busy this morning - you trolled me and then let on about your guilt ridden holiday. I have no interest in you or your political opinions. I’m non political regarding this predicament WE are in. I view my thoughts as reasoned - yours certainly are not. Goodbye

Hopefully for all on here, your goodbye will actually mean that, you're a liar, and been shown to be many times.

[Grumps]

And now advice is to wear facemasks ,the ever changing science,what a shambles

Just for accuracy... It says aim to wear... In enclosed area
Says face coverings, not masks.

[jackmiggins]

Hopefully for all on here, your goodbye will actually mean that, you're a liar, and been shown to be many times.

Goodbye to you actually, but as you seem to think you are the ultimate authority on Covid, doubt I’ll bother to post on YOUR thread. An opinion is not a lie ... hurl abuse if you will .... really is not very impressive.

[Grumps]

Goodbye to you actually, but as you seem to think you are the ultimate authority on Covid, doubt I’ll bother to post on YOUR thread. An opinion is not a lie ... hurl abuse if you will .... really is not very impressive.

[joey13]

Just for accuracy... It says aim to wear... In enclosed area
Says face coverings, not masks.

In enclosed area genius idea

[Grumps]

In enclosed area genius idea

Because you cannot social distance, it's common sense

The risk of spreading outdoors, whilst social distancing is almost nil.

[dsr]

I believe they have built up and mobilised their first reserve of PPE stock (FFP2 Masks) and have distributed around 1.5m pieces of equipment to the countrys most in need

They will continue to work to build up reserves of other PPE and this has always been about the long game (the squabbling between pro and anti govt people in this country has led to the EU procurement process being discussed and judged in very much misleading terms)

Just on the point of Germany they at the moment are taking a leading role in securing PPE on behalf of those in this scheme

There is understanding that countrys will take a dual approach where they are free to act as a single nation securing what they need and as you highlighted ensuring that equipment manufactured within their country doesn't get sold off for profit when they need it. Alongside this the scheme will pool resources to secure distribution lines of PPE stock that they can manage centrally for the greater good

Personally at this stage I don't think we've missed out on anything by not joining but equally had we signed up it would have not stopped us doing anything we have and could do without being a member so it seems illogical not to join as its a no lose situation.

The contention around this was more that when it was unclear how effective the scheme would be and whether it might protect our citizens lives the govt seemed to take a decision on more ideological grounds which if true is disgraceful

1.5m pieces of equipment, if distributed only in this country, would be 3 pieces of PPE per NHS medical professional. When spread over the whole EU, presumably a glove each. Or a pair of gloves, depending how they count!

[Zlatan]

In regards to PPE, how much has the EU supplied to its member states?
When you consider countries like France and Germany basically banned the exporting of it.

https://www.ft.com/content/8c0a29fc-a52 ... 5a2dcc8faa

So you’re perfectly happy with the rest of the clusterfuck then Sid? Good to know

[martin_p]

1.5m pieces of equipment, if distributed only in this country, would be 3 pieces of PPE per NHS medical professional. When spread over the whole EU, presumably a glove each. Or a pair of gloves, depending how they count!

You’re telling me that every medical professionals in the nhs need PPE? Or is it just the ones that work with Covid patients?

[Grumps]

Goodbye to you actually, but as you seem to think you are the ultimate authority on Covid, doubt I’ll bother to post on YOUR thread. An opinion is not a lie ... hurl abuse if you will .... really is not very impressive.

I went on cheap holiday.... Lie
I went away in march........ Lie
I was repatriated............... Lie
My resort was shut........... Lie

All repeated by you on several threads
All pointed out to you on many occasions, to be false, yet you continue to repeat them

I replied to a post you made saying all flights should have stopped in early March
I pointed out many people, including myself would have been stranded abroad, with no accommodation
Replying to a post is not trolling, in fact I don't think I've ever trolled anyone in my life.
You calling me delusional is not abuse?
Now you didn't stay away long last time you said goodbye, hopefully you'll try better this time.

[dsr]

You’re telling me that every medical professionals in the nhs need PPE? Or is it just the ones that work with Covid patients?

I can't imagine there are many doctors or nurses who don't need PPE. What are they doing if they never come within sniffing distance of a patient?

But I get your point. You're saying that if only 20% of the medical professionals ever see a patient, and if the entire EU procurement system had come to the UK, that would be 15 pieces of PPE each.

[Devils_Advocate]

1.5m pieces of equipment, if distributed only in this country, would be 3 pieces of PPE per NHS medical professional. When spread over the whole EU, presumably a glove each. Or a pair of gloves, depending how they count!

As far as Im aware this is all that has been requested there is more available. The scheme isnt working like an aid project where they get stuff and just dish it all out.

The scheme will look to build up stock reserves but it will still be up to nation states to then flag if they need stock and manage the process to get access to it

As I clearly said in my first post this scheme is there for the long haul so it is not a silver bullet but if we see 2nd and 3rd waves of this virus then this is where the members of this scheme could really see the benefits

I think the phrase is 'now is not the time to compare and judge'

[martin_p]

I can't imagine there are many doctors or nurses who don't need PPE. What are they doing if they never come within sniffing distance of a patient?

But I get your point. You're saying that if only 20% of the medical professionals ever see a patient, and if the entire EU procurement system had come to the UK, that would be 15 pieces of PPE each.

Well if we only ever take PPE that fulfils our whole requirement for the whole pandemic it’s no wonder we’re short! Tell me why having any of this EU PPE would be bad.

[android]

I've read the guidelines released today and it all seems clear (at least the bits that affect me)! Small baby steps to ease the pressure and provide some hope, which is all we could expect at this stage.

Much fuss seems to have been made about why you can meet someone in a park but not yet go to your mother/father/brother/sister's house but the reason for that seems blindingly obvious to me.

[dsr]

Well if we only ever take PPE that fulfils our whole requirement for the whole pandemic it’s no wonder we’re short! Tell me why having any of this EU PPE would be bad.

It wouldn't be bad. If the entire EU procurement is enough to supply a hospital for a day, it's better than not being able to supply a hospital for a day.

Just out of interest, did you really believe that most doctors and nurses don't need PPE, or were you taking the mick?

[Grumps]

I've read the guidelines released today and it all seems clear (at least the bits that affect me)! Small baby steps to ease the pressure and provide some hope, which is all we could expect at this stage.

Much fuss seems to have been made about why you can meet someone in a park but not yet go to your mother/father/brother/sister's house but the reason for that seems blindingly obvious to me.

I agree with baby steps.... But it's not blindingly obvious why it's better for two cars to drive to a park, come in contact with others, to meet someone you could have walked round the corner to, and speak to, abiding by the 2m rule, and never entering the house, ie on the driveway, garden etc.

[IanMcL]

Question to PM:

Will he confirm that what he is saying is applicable only in England and that he speaks as PM of England, on this occasion?

PM:
No I reject that totality. What I say applies all over the UK - although there will be regional differences applying in some places!

Not least where the laws are different!!!!

[android]

I agree with baby steps.... But it's not blindingly obvious why it's better for two cars to drive to a park, come in contact with others, to meet someone you could have walked round the corner to, and speak to, abiding by the 2m rule, and never entering the house, ie on the driveway, garden etc.

Ok Grumps I take your point and perhaps blindingly obvious was over the top. But I think it is this. You might go to your relative's house with the intention of staying on the driveway. But you get there and it's raining and the temptation is to move inside. And you haven't seen your mum for 2 months and she wants to give you a hug. You get the picture - surely it's much more likely that a significant number of people (maybe not you or the other disciplined people) will a) end up indoors where the virus spreads many times more easily than outdoors and b) much more likely that people will end up in close proximity and facing each other rather than side by side.

[Grumps]

Question to PM:

Will he confirm that what he is saying is applicable only in England and that he speaks as PM of England, on this occasion?

PM:
No I reject that totality. What I say applies all over the UK - although there will be regional differences applying in some places!

Not least where the laws are different!!!!

I think the laws are the same regarding Covid in all uk
How they enforce, or relax them is what is different

[IanMcL]

Scotland has it's own law.

[Grumps]

Ok Grumps I take your point and perhaps blindingly obvious was over the top. But I think it is this. You might go to your relative's house with the intention of staying on the driveway. But you get there and it's raining and the temptation is to move inside. And you haven't seen your mum for 2 months and she wants to give you a hug. You get the picture - surely it's much more likely that a significant number of people (maybe not you or the other disciplined people) will a) end up indoors where the virus spreads many times more easily than outdoors and b) much more likely that people will end up in close proximity and facing each other rather than side by side.

Of course people might abuse it, just like hundreds have been doing in parks for weeks
What happens if you get to the park and it rains... You might be tempted to go into a small shelter together, it's all ifs and buts...... I think anyone who would be tempted to go indoors, and put their family at risk, are probably doing it already.

[Grumps]

Scotland has it's own law.

For Covid?

[Damo]

Asking people to think selflessly and with common sense just months after asking them to vote Tory is like asking someone to walk a tightrope after plying them with booze.

It's all the people who seemed to support labour that I see asking all the stupid questions and saying they cannot understand government advice
Maybe the appeal of socialism, and having a government that feeds, clothes and raises their kids is due to not having the ability to do anything that requires using some common sense.
Lockdown under Corbyn would have probably looked something like the one in Wuhan too where authorities welded peoples front doors shut

[tiger76]

Question to PM:

Will he confirm that what he is saying is applicable only in England and that he speaks as PM of England, on this occasion?

PM:
No I reject that totality. What I say applies all over the UK - although there will be regional differences applying in some places!

Not least where the laws are different!!!!

Is he trying to divide the UK,comments like that will be a godsend to anybody supporting Scottish or Welsh independence.

[Devils_Advocate]

Corbyn would have probably looked something like the one in Wuhan too where authorities welded peoples front doors shut

This is what happens when you get a full moon during a lockdown

[tiger76]

Latest numbers: A further 210 people have died in hospitals, care homes and the wider community after testing positive for coronavirus in the UK, according to the latest figures announced by the Department of Health and Social Care, taking the overall total to 32,065.

On Sunday the daily death total was 269, although scientists have advised against comparing daily totals.

There have also been 3,877 new cases, taking the total to 223,060.

[tiger76]

Blimey they hit the testing target just.

UK carries out 100,490 tests on 10 May.

As well as announcing a further 210 deaths in the UK, the Department of Health and Social Care also says 100,490 tests were carried out over the past 24 hours.

It is the first day the UK has reached its 100,000 testing target since 1 May.

Earlier this month, Boris Johnson set a new testing target of 200,000 a day by the end of the month.

[tiger76]

For Covid?

Yes,as do NI and Wales,it's called devolution.

What are the devolved nations saying?

Much of today's guidance applies to England only, but what are the devolved governments saying?

Scotland and Wales - which have their own powers over the lockdown - have not changed the advice for people to stay at home, and have rejected No 10's new "stay alert" slogan.

Speaking today, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the law and guidance in Scotland had not changed, and said: "I would hope all employers would respect that."

And Wales' First Minister Mark Drakeford has warned people that they are not allowed to drive from England into Wales for exercise as the two countries move to different lockdown rules.

Northern Ireland First Minister Arlene Foster has said a plan to take the nation slowly out of lockdown could be published on Tuesday.

It seems likely that the plan will not include projected dates next to different phases of easing the lockdown.

[Taffy on the wing]

How come we were so short of PPE in the first place ?

Because they are an inept Government....Despite the Pandemic exercises in 2016 which showed shortfalls ....they did nothing except further enriching their donors.... Disgusting rabble!

[Paul Waine]

Yes,as do NI and Wales,it's called devolution.

What are the devolved nations saying?

Much of today's guidance applies to England only, but what are the devolved governments saying?

Scotland and Wales - which have their own powers over the lockdown - have not changed the advice for people to stay at home, and have rejected No 10's new "stay alert" slogan.

Speaking today, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the law and guidance in Scotland had not changed, and said: "I would hope all employers would respect that."

And Wales' First Minister Mark Drakeford has warned people that they are not allowed to drive from England into Wales for exercise as the two countries move to different lockdown rules.

Northern Ireland First Minister Arlene Foster has said a plan to take the nation slowly out of lockdown could be published on Tuesday.

It seems likely that the plan will not include projected dates next to different phases of easing the lockdown.

Certainly some interesting questions raised around devolved powers. Health services, amongst other matters, have been devolved to each of Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland. I don't know if the devolved powers are identical in each of the 3 separate regions. However, I suspect not, with Scotland having broader devolved powers than either Wales or N.Ireland. I wonder, where does immigration sit amongst the regions? I'm thinking of this in the context of covid-19 rules on people arriving from outside UK. Could Scotland set different rules for arrivals at Scottish ports, than would apply to arrivals at other UK ports?

Many years ago I lived in Chester, very close to the Welsh border. Would I have been perfectly "within order" to visit the supermarket across the border in Wales, but "out of order" to have made the same journey to take exercise in the countryside on the western side of the border?

[android]

Speaking today, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the law and guidance in Scotland had not changed, and said: "I would hope all employers would respect that."

She may have said that but I believe the rules in Scotland changed today so that you can go out and exercise as often as you like.
Arguably a mixed message from Sturgeon - "Stay at Home" but "go out as often as you like".
But just to be clear: Nicola Sturgeon is ace and Boris Johnson is bad.