It's not just about Brexit

[clarethomer]

I get that he is trying to protect them but engaging this way is unlikely to protect them if they don't get access in the end.

I don't agree with the approach that is clear.

I guess it will be down to the EU to answer to their fishing industry when the reality of their situation becomes clear. Our governement will encourage and support the growth of a UK fishing industry and we will start to look at how we build for the future.

By the sounds of it - no deal is the best step now. Treat us as a 3rd country and take the usual 20 years it takes to do a trade deal.

We will trade on WTO and both parties can strategically put agreements in place for mutually agreeable areas of trade. Which then begs the question - why not do this now and accept the redlines on each side are stopping a full blown trade agreement at the moment.

[martin_p]

I get that he is trying to protect them but engaging this way is unlikely to protect them if they don't get access in the end.

I don't agree with the approach that is clear.

I guess it will be down to the EU to answer to their fishing industry when the reality of their situation becomes clear. Our governement will encourage and support the growth of a UK fishing industry and we will start to look at how we build for the future.

By the sounds of it - no deal is the best step now. Treat us as a 3rd country and take the usual 20 years it takes to do a trade deal.

We will trade on WTO and both parties can strategically put agreements in place for mutually agreeable areas of trade. Which then begs the question - why not do this now and accept the redlines on each side are stopping a full blown trade agreement at the moment.

Because neither side is stupid enough to think that no deal is a good outcome.

It’s still likely that some deal will be done, something not much better than no deal but face saving. It’s certainly something Johnson needs as no deal will further damage his fast plummeting political stock.

[KateR]

will be some good side effects, cost of fish will go down in the UK, Chippy's will mushroom, the British public will revert to eating fish 4/5 times a week and the cows flatulence will diminish, helping the world (and the EU) with global warming, although there is a fear the EU could offset this Also, another side benefit will be that UK obesity will reduce!

[Devils_Advocate]

I see todays Brexit sh*tshow is on food labeling.

The irony of winning the election on the promise of an oven ready deal that could result in food shortages for our Northern Irish citizens

[Devils_Advocate]

will be some good side effects, cost of fish will go down in the UK, Chippy's will mushroom, the British public will revert to eating fish 4/5 times a week and the cows flatulence will diminish, helping the world (and the EU) with global warming, although there is a fear the EU could offset this Also, another side benefit will be that UK obesity will reduce!

I think we export the majority of the fish we catch and import nearly half the fish we consume so it sounds like the price of fish in the chip shopmight go up whilst the fishing industry struggles

[KateR]

I think we export the majority of the fish we catch and import nearly half the fish we consume so it sounds like the price of fish in the chip shopmight go up whilst the fishing industry struggles

change is going to come, don't expect things to remain how they were, but it was tongue in cheek, honestly. By the way, when your guests arrive for the oven ready deal but don't want to open the oven because they are demanding what the starters will be and they are not prepared to open the oven until you agree, it makes life and sitting down to a nice amicable meal just a tad difficult.

we will get there, trust me, even Mary thinks we will have a deal, but you never know these days whether he is having a bit of fun or not.

[dsr]

I see todays Brexit [deleted] is on food labeling.

The irony of winning the election on the promise of an oven ready deal that could result in food shortages for our Northern Irish citizens

One thing there won't be a shortage of after Brexit - swearing. It's a form of virtue signalling - the more you swear, the more you prove that you feel truly, madly and deeply about how very wrong the people were not to do as you told them.

Of course there won't be food shortages. You're like the man who sees his children starving and won't open a tin of food because it's a day past its use-by date. Apart from anything else, can you seriously imagine all these people in the North starving to death while all those people in the Republic are lkiving off the fat of the land, and no-one in the North thinks to send a wagon down to buy some of their stuff? Did you never see the musical "Joseph and the amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat"?

There will never be food shortages because the food is wrongly labelled. Anyone who suggests there will is stirring the pot.

[aggi]

One thing there won't be a shortage of after Brexit - swearing. It's a form of virtue signalling - the more you swear, the more you prove that you feel truly, madly and deeply about how very wrong the people were not to do as you told them.

Of course there won't be food shortages. You're like the man who sees his children starving and won't open a tin of food because it's a day past its use-by date. Apart from anything else, can you seriously imagine all these people in the North starving to death while all those people in the Republic are lkiving off the fat of the land, and no-one in the North thinks to send a wagon down to buy some of their stuff? Did you never see the musical "Joseph and the amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat"?

There will never be food shortages because the food is wrongly labelled. Anyone who suggests there will is stirring the pot.

I don't think anyone, other than you, has suggested that people will be starving to death.

It's not that long since we had food shortages in the UK, buying flour for instance was very difficult. It doesn't seem beyond the realms of imagination that a similar thing may happen again if the logistics aren't sorted out.

[martin_p]

change is going to come, don't expect things to remain how they were, but it was tongue in cheek, honestly. By the way, when your guests arrive for the oven ready deal but don't want to open the oven because they are demanding what the starters will be and they are not prepared to open the oven until you agree, it makes life and sitting down to a nice amicable meal just a tad difficult.

we will get there, trust me, even Mary thinks we will have a deal, but you never know these days whether he is having a bit of fun or not.

The trouble is the guests have turned up for the oven ready deal having been told in December there was a nice three course meal on the menu only to find there’s only cheese sandwiches on the table. It’s no great surprise they’re a bit miffed.

[martin_p]

I don't think anyone, other than you, has suggested that people will be starving to death.

No you don’t understand. When dsr says ‘starving to death’ it’s hyperbole, it’s only when people he doesn’t agree with say things that they have to be taken literally.

[dsr]

I don't think anyone, other than you, has suggested that people will be starving to death.

It's not that long since we had food shortages in the UK, buying flour for instance was very difficult. It doesn't seem beyond the realms of imagination that a similar thing may happen again if the logistics aren't sorted out.

So if the article that Devil's Advocate quoted is saying that the very worst case scenario it might be difficult to buy flour - is that really worth an article or a comment?

It's certainly beyond the realms of my imagination to think that Brexit will have the same effect as the shutdown of half the world economy and lockdown of the western world. So if coronavirus's impact was, as you correctly say, to make flour hard to find, then Brexit's effect will be so much less.

surely the government has proved during coronavirus that they are capable of being flexible? If - and it's a big if - there is plenty of food for sale to Northern Ireland but the labels are wrong - then the government will change the rules temporarily so that wrongly labelled food can be sold. There is already a transition period anyway - surely no-one is suggesting that every single food item in Northern Ireland will be removed from the shelves on 31st December and replaced with new on 1st January. All the government would need to do is extend the rules of the transition. There will be no food shortages due to Brexit.

[KateR]

The trouble is the guests have turned up for the oven ready deal having been told in December there was a nice three course meal on the menu only to find there’s only cheese sandwiches on the table. It’s no great surprise they’re a bit miffed.

you know what happens when you leave your food in the oven too long Martin, they sure are going to be miffed when they finally see it, they will have been expecting something nice, but the boiled bouf will be a little overdone and they are going to be more than a little miffed lol. Definitely no cheese for those boys. Hope they brought the champagne or it's going to be a lot worse!

[Devils_Advocate]

So if the article that Devil's Advocate quoted is saying that the very worst case scenario it might be difficult to buy flour - is that really worth an article or a comment?

It's certainly beyond the realms of my imagination to think that Brexit will have the same effect as the shutdown of half the world economy and lockdown of the western world. So if coronavirus's impact was, as you correctly say, to make flour hard to find, then Brexit's effect will be so much less.

surely the government has proved during coronavirus that they are capable of being flexible? If - and it's a big if - there is plenty of food for sale to Northern Ireland but the labels are wrong - then the government will change the rules temporarily so that wrongly labelled food can be sold. There is already a transition period anyway - surely no-one is suggesting that every single food item in Northern Ireland will be removed from the shelves on 31st December and replaced with new on 1st January. All the government would need to do is extend the rules of the transition. There will be no food shortages due to Brexit.

Your talking with authority about a subject and article you have not even bothered to look into and therefore know nothing about - Brexit in a nutshell

[Devils_Advocate]

By the way, when your guests arrive for the oven ready deal but don't want to open the oven because they are demanding what the starters will be and they are not prepared to open the oven until you agree, it makes life and sitting down to a nice amicable meal just a tad difficult.

If this is your interpretation of Johnsons oven ready deal then you want to go back and have a look at his election campaign and how he described this oven ready deal in interviews and speeches.

If someone would have said what you have said about it back in November they would have been accused of project fear and being a sad remoaner who needs to believe a bit more and stop trying to thwart Brexit. Funnily enough that doesn't sound like you at all

[Burnley Ace]

I don't think anyone, other than you, has suggested that people will be starving to death.

It's not that long since we had food shortages in the UK, buying flour for instance was very difficult. It doesn't seem beyond the realms of imagination that a similar thing may happen again if the logistics aren't sorted out.

Habits And tastes would have to change. Using your example the 4000 tonnes of milled flour that is exported to Ireland every week would stay in the UK Market.

[AndrewJB]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... e=url_link

It’s not looking good. If the article is right, this is incompetence beyond what they’ve managed so far. Brexit isn’t something sprung on them, but a subject they’ve claimed ownership over, so if it ends up badly there is nobody to blame but themselves. You would have thought that if there was just one thing they’d not want to botch, it would be this.

[KateR]

If this is your interpretation of Johnsons oven ready deal then you want to go back and have a look at his election campaign and how he described this oven ready deal in interviews and speeches.

If someone would have said what you have said about it back in November they would have been accused of project fear and being a sad remoaner who needs to believe a bit more and stop trying to thwart Brexit. Funnily enough that doesn't sound like you at all

funnily enough if you want historically go back a few years and the deal May was trying to put forward through others at the beginning, the EU made a few stipulations that they would not discuss anything else unless there demands were met first before holding the main divorce talks/negotiations. I said at that time it is not how you typically manage/start negotiations, so regarding these present discussions I had more than an inkling of how they might start but had hoped they were solved/agreed in a short while since the UK made it clear it was leaving 2021 start. Given the new regime and the majority/mandate they had I also hoped they would recognize it was not like the May regime and that HoP would continue to stop the process, yet they didn't and so it goes on. As I said previously I am confident, like Martin, a deal will be done, what it looks like is something we have to wait and see, but I don't think they will get the starters they want and will therefore definitely not like the main course, but they will get something, or perhaps they will just leave totally hungry.

[martin_p]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... e=url_link

It’s not looking good. If the article is right, this is incompetence beyond what they’ve managed so far. Brexit isn’t something sprung on them, but a subject they’ve claimed ownership over, so if it ends up badly there is nobody to blame but themselves. You would have thought that if there was just one thing they’d not want to botch, it would be this.

It’s absolutely staggering they didn’t ask to extend the transition period. It’s all very well to argue that we had enough time to get ready for 1st January 2021 back in December, even though the experts were arguing that was unrealistic, but to be stubbornly continuing down the same path after everything had stopped for a global pandemic for a few months is rank incompetence.

[tiger76]

It’s absolutely staggering they didn’t ask to extend the transition period. It’s all very well to argue that we had enough time to get ready for 1st January 2021 back in December, even though the experts were arguing that was unrealistic, but to be stubbornly continuing down the same path after everything had stopped for a global pandemic for a few months is rank incompetence.

It's clear to me that this government are quite happy to have a no deal scenario, and then blame the lack of consensus wholly on the EU, why is it so difficult to extend the deadline, and if we do leave on the 1st January without a deal what then, we'll still have to come to some form of compromise down the line, all this posturing is doing nobody any good, it's time both parties started behaving in a grown-up manner and seriously negotiating, that's the only way progress is going to happen, but I can't see a thorough deal by the end of this year, the best outcome is that some temporary arrangement is agreed as a stopgap, before more detailed discussions take place next year and beyond.

I'm not sure it is rank incompetence, there's many in the Conservative party that would openly welcome a no deal brexit, not least Dominic Cummings & JRM. Now if their arguments are so strong why aren't they willing to put this proposition to the electorate, could it possibly be that now the full impact of brexit is known, many people will have changed their minds on the subject. And for those who doubt this last point, I suggest you look at the opinion polls over the last year or so.

[KateR]

it's all about perspective, I can easily say it is staggering that any one can say now on this board "it's clear to me" when all you're doing is reading news and you clearly 100% do not know what negotiation tactics were put in place in order to complete this phase. You do not, in any early phase negotiation say ok, there is no rush to complete, lets put the deadline back now and take our time. One side wont discuss until a couple of points are agreed that are not acceptable, one side says, well that's fine, but time is ticking along and there is a lot to do so we need to resolve.

I don't know what will happen, I am not sure of anything, however I did say very early in the year that I would not be surprised if in Oct/Nov there was an extension to 31 March, and predicted the usual suspects will be here saying I told you BJ was a liar, he can't be trusted.

There are so many who seem to think the UK should just accept what the EU wants and move on, I do know am totally opposed to that, there needs to be give and take, these things take time and get chipped away. Will the EU get a better fishing deal than is being offered, probably, will it be what they are demanding today, I very much doubt it and that is just one very small piece of the puzzle.

Yet the media will keep trotting out experts and stirring the community pot making the country divide and take sides, then they follow up with polls from a knee jerk reaction. Let's wait 12 /18 months and then see where we are and what polls look like, it will give a much better indication than today, now of course this is just my perception and my opinion.

[martin_p]

it's all about perspective, I can easily say it is staggering that any one can say now on this board "it's clear to me" when all you're doing is reading news and you clearly 100% do not know what negotiation tactics were put in place in order to complete this phase. You do not, in any early phase negotiation say ok, there is no rush to complete, lets put the deadline back now and take our time. One side wont discuss until a couple of points are agreed that are not acceptable, one side says, well that's fine, but time is ticking along and there is a lot to do so we need to resolve.

I don't know what will happen, I am not sure of anything, however I did say very early in the year that I would not be surprised if in Oct/Nov there was an extension to 31 March, and predicted the usual suspects will be here saying I told you BJ was a liar, he can't be trusted.

There are so many who seem to think the UK should just accept what the EU wants and move on, I do know am totally opposed to that, there needs to be give and take, these things take time and get chipped away. Will the EU get a better fishing deal than is being offered, probably, will it be what they are demanding today, I very much doubt it and that is just one very small piece of the puzzle.

Yet the media will keep trotting out experts and stirring the community pot making the country divide and take sides, then they follow up with polls from a knee jerk reaction. Let's wait 12 /18 months and then see where we are and what polls look like, it will give a much better indication than today, now of course this is just my perception and my opinion.

Did this approach work when negotiating the Withdrawal Agreement?

[KateR]

Did this approach work when negotiating the Withdrawal Agreement?

absolutely, yes once we changed the negotiating party, it wasn't going anywhere with May's approach and the people of the HoC, whom seem to be the ones supporting your thought process.

[martin_p]

absolutely, yes once we changed the negotiating party, it wasn't going anywhere with May's approach and the people of the HoC, whom seem to be the ones supporting your thought process.

Yes, Johnson accepted a border down the Irish Sea like the EU had wanted all along. Progress was made after the U.K. caved in to the EU’s demands and broke on of its own ‘red lines’. So as a negotiating tactic it wasn’t much cop for the U.K.

[aggi]

It’s absolutely staggering they didn’t ask to extend the transition period. It’s all very well to argue that we had enough time to get ready for 1st January 2021 back in December, even though the experts were arguing that was unrealistic, but to be stubbornly continuing down the same path after everything had stopped for a global pandemic for a few months is rank incompetence.

But then you can't blame all the disruption on Covid.

Although I still suspect we'll end up signing to a poor deal and pretending it's great.

[aggi]

absolutely, yes once we changed the negotiating party, it wasn't going anywhere with May's approach and the people of the HoC, whom seem to be the ones supporting your thought process.

Well, changed the negotiating party and agreed a slightly worse deal that had already been previously rejected by the UK.

[KateR]

you guys can have your own perception of reality, that's fine, just don't expect everyone to agree with you, because they don't, so that is fact you really need to get on board with.

I have clearly said many times, a deal will happen and we will continue to move forward regardless of which side alters it's stance to ensure "negotiations" move forward. Somethings have to give, but your analogy of caved in, worse deal is just rhetoric, clearly to me your bigotry and hatred has you speaking out both sides of your mouth, which doesn't make you very credible in anything you have to say on the subject.

[AndrewJB]

you guys can have your own perception of reality, that's fine, just don't expect everyone to agree with you, because they don't, so that is fact you really need to get on board with.

I have clearly said many times, a deal will happen and we will continue to move forward regardless of which side alters it's stance to ensure "negotiations" move forward. Somethings have to give, but your analogy of caved in, worse deal is just rhetoric, clearly to me your bigotry and hatred has you speaking out both sides of your mouth, which doesn't make you very credible in anything you have to say on the subject.

In what ways was Johnson’s withdrawal agreement better than May’s in your opinion?

[PeterWilton]

"caved in" is an idiom, not an analogy.

[KateR]

In what ways was Johnson’s withdrawal agreement better than May’s in your opinion?

it was a million times better because it was an agreement, May never had an agreement and neither was she ever going to have an agreement. Whether you or anyone else doesn't like the agreement it is irrelevant because it has been agreed. There are literally hundreds of things I don't like, don't want to really do but I do. I didn't agree with the Tory manifest at the election around a couple of things I am passionate about, but I don't come on here every day and choose numerous threads to moan about it.

I wrote to the Gov and am engaged in certain activities to try and change/improve it, whether I actually get anywhere is irrelevant, I am trying. Which is why I challenged all of you who think how bad it is, to try and do something about and provided you with an idea, so you could use your energies and time and put it to better use but of course it got deflected and ignored, no surprise really.

[KateR]

"caved in" is an idiom, not an analogy.

just about as helpful as your picture of a trans man in a women's restroom.

I can freely admit to you and every other person on the whole board being better at English language in any of it's forms or shapes you wish to choose, I am not sure it will make you feel better or superior or not, but I am just putting it out there.

[aggi]

you guys can have your own perception of reality, that's fine, just don't expect everyone to agree with you, because they don't, so that is fact you really need to get on board with.

I have clearly said many times, a deal will happen and we will continue to move forward regardless of which side alters it's stance to ensure "negotiations" move forward. Somethings have to give, but your analogy of caved in, worse deal is just rhetoric, clearly to me your bigotry and hatred has you speaking out both sides of your mouth, which doesn't make you very credible in anything you have to say on the subject.

It's a perception of reality based on fact though. Look back a couple of years and you will see that the option of a withdrawal deal with a border in the Irish Sea was there and the UK didn't go for it. They didn't get anything extra from the EU, that's a matter of public record.

[PeterWilton]

just about as helpful as your picture of a trans man in a women's restroom.

I can freely admit to you and every other person on the whole board being better at English language in any of it's forms or shapes you wish to choose, I am not sure it will make you feel better or superior or not, but I am just putting it out there.

That's a weirdly aggressive response.

And he was in the bathroom the transphobics wanted him to be in.

[KateR]

That's a weirdly aggressive response.

And he was in the bathroom the transphobics wanted him to be in.

aggressive, really, I wasn't trying to be aggressive I can assure you

he was wrong but it is a subject we will agree on at many levels but clearly not in this instance, I was just trying to point out, it wasn't helpful, which is the same answer I'll give the spelling and grammar police every time, which is just another endless discussion

[nil_desperandum]

it was a million times better because it was an agreement, May never had an agreement and neither was she ever going to have an agreement.

If she didn't have a agreement, what was it that she took to the House of Commons on the 15th of January 2019, the 12th of March 2019 and the 29th of March 2019 , which was on each occasion voted down by her own MPs?

[AlargeClaret]

How on earth has a Brexit thread got into a debate on trannys?

[Devils_Advocate]

It is bad enough we have appointed Tony Abbott, a homophobe and a misogynist, as UK Trade envoy but the govt have followed it up by appointing Daniel Hannan, a liar who doesnt understand the first thing about the EU, Brexit or trade to UK Board of Trade

This govt is an absolute shambles from beginning to end

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1072 ... 37056.html

[KateR]

If she didn't have a agreement, what was it that she took to the House of Commons on the 15th of January 2019, the 12th of March 2019 and the 29th of March 2019 , which was on each occasion voted down by her own MPs?

lol, she clearly did not have an agreement that was worth the paper it was written on, the HoC demanded and went to court to ensure nothing could be agreed until they had scrutinized it and approved it in order to move forward. You seem to be forgetting the HoC role in the last few years, you forget the MP's who voted against, those who left to form a new party, 17 of them who never got re-elected. The very things that so many on here supported and posted so many predictions around, that we would have a new referendum, that we would never leave and yet here we are today and same old rubbish get's posted. 80 seat majority was gained because of so many people who held the same views, welcome to the new brave world you helped shape, yet to coin a well know phrase offered by everyone's friend.

You lost get over it, good try but...........

[KateR]

How on earth has a Brexit thread got into a debate on trannys?

you clearly have not mastered the art of deflection.

sorry, was just a throw away comment.

[AndrewJB]

lol, she clearly did not have an agreement that was worth the paper it was written on, the HoC demanded and went to court to ensure nothing could be agreed until they had scrutinized it and approved it in order to move forward. You seem to be forgetting the HoC role in the last few years, you forget the MP's who voted against, those who left to form a new party, 17 of them who never got re-elected. The very things that so many on here supported and posted so many predictions around, that we would have a new referendum, that we would never leave and yet here we are today and same old rubbish get's posted. 80 seat majority was gained because of so many people who held the same views, welcome to the new brave world you helped shape, yet to coin a well know phrase offered by everyone's friend.

You lost get over it, good try but...........

As a marker of how crazy the Brexit rollercoaster has been, it has been argued that May’s deal, which Johnson and many of his allies voted against, was better than Johnson’s own deal.

https://fullfact.org/election-2019/how- ... resa-mays/

[KateR]

As a marker of how crazy the Brexit rollercoaster has been, it has been argued that May’s deal, which Johnson and many of his allies voted against, was better than Johnson’s own deal.

https://fullfact.org/election-2019/how- ... resa-mays/

yes totally agree Andrew, and it may have been (no pun there) however, it wasn't a legal deal that could go anywhere, it's what happens sometimes when you negotiate and you think you can get a better deal, sometimes it works or it can backfire.

All this will be taught in many countries as part of history in the future, many people will provide the why and wherefores, good or bad, yet it will be shown as to what the facts were, there was another deal outlined, ready to be ratified and put in to law, but it was rejected and therefore irrelevant other than for the historians of the future.

[aggi]

lol, she clearly did not have an agreement that was worth the paper it was written on, the HoC demanded and went to court to ensure nothing could be agreed until they had scrutinized it and approved it in order to move forward. You seem to be forgetting the HoC role in the last few years, you forget the MP's who voted against, those who left to form a new party, 17 of them who never got re-elected. The very things that so many on here supported and posted so many predictions around, that we would have a new referendum, that we would never leave and yet here we are today and same old rubbish get's posted. 80 seat majority was gained because of so many people who held the same views, welcome to the new brave world you helped shape, yet to coin a well know phrase offered by everyone's friend.

You lost get over it, good try but...........

I predicted that Johnson would agree a withdrawal agreement with a border in the Irish sea. Do I get bonus points?

[KateR]

have an idea, put it into a plan:

First Steps to failure!

Saying from a very famous man

[martin_p]

have an idea, put it into a plan:

First Steps to failure!

Saying from a very famous man

So you do agree that we shouldn’t have a fixed end of year deadline then.

[KateR]

So you do agree that we shouldn’t have a fixed end of year deadline then.

No I do not agree as of today, nor as I tried to explain, that we should take no deal off the table.

Yet come Oct/Nov and if you ask me the same question I may well have a completely different opinion on the year end deadline, as I have said a few times, I expect an extension but not yet and I think it will be out to March 31, which may even get pushed again out to June 30, but not beyond that.

It really is around things like who blinks first, I expect give and take.

[nil_desperandum]

lol, she clearly did not have an agreement that was worth the paper it was written on, the HoC demanded and went to court to ensure nothing could be agreed until they had scrutinized it and approved it in order to move forward.

Not sure that I should respond to a post that begins with lol, but anyway:
It was absolutely correct that the HoC wanted to scrutinise it. That's the Sovereignty of Parliament that many voted for.
And all though you don't consider it wasn't "worth the paper it was written on", our current PM (Johnson) voted for it.

[KateR]

Not sure that I should respond to a post that begins with lol, but anyway:
It was absolutely correct that the HoC wanted to scrutinise it. That's the Sovereignty of Parliament that many voted for.
And all though you don't consider it wasn't "worth the paper it was written on", our current PM (Johnson) voted for it.

all very true, no arguments from me or even questions, even though he voted on it, it failed to pass the HoC got what they wanted, it continually delayed, it refused to accept, they got May to resign and a new PM in, he tried to do things, right or wrong but HoC and those who wanted to remain forced the GE. The results we all know, are they happy with what they created, was it what they wanted/expected.

It is a failed document, I am sure that many pieces were used in the final agreement but in the end it failed and therefore in the grand scheme of things it did not pass go, perhaps you can tell me how great it was and that it is not worthless in the actual process, the fact BJ voted for it is today irrelevant. The process that was designed to ensure scrutiny, the process worked, it is the process you have today and it is the outcome of the process as to where we are in negotiations today.

I was laughing at the use of the word agreement, there was no binding agreement in the May deal which would result in moving forward none and therefore I class it as, not worth the paper it was written on. Just my opinion, you can have yours even though I am yet to understand the point of our discussion up to now, and for clarity people, anyone, including BJ, can have a change of opinion and do things differently when circumstances change, which they certainly did, didn't they?

[NewClaret]

As a marker of how crazy the Brexit rollercoaster has been, it has been argued that May’s deal, which Johnson and many of his allies voted against, was better than Johnson’s own deal.

https://fullfact.org/election-2019/how- ... resa-mays/

Shame Labour behaved like ****s and blocked it then.

[martin_p]

Shame Labour behaved like ****s and blocked it then.

Labour didn’t have the ability to block it, they didn’t have enough MPs.

[martin_p]

all very true, no arguments from me or even questions, even though he voted on it, it failed to pass the HoC got what they wanted, it continually delayed, it refused to accept, they got May to resign and a new PM in, he tried to do things, right or wrong but HoC and those who wanted to remain forced the GE. The results we all know, are they happy with what they created, was it what they wanted/expected.

It is a failed document, I am sure that many pieces were used in the final agreement but in the end it failed and therefore in the grand scheme of things it did not pass go, perhaps you can tell me how great it was and that it is not worthless in the actual process, the fact BJ voted for it is today irrelevant. The process that was designed to ensure scrutiny, the process worked, it is the process you have today and it is the outcome of the process as to where we are in negotiations today.

I was laughing at the use of the word agreement, there was no binding agreement in the May deal which would result in moving forward none and therefore I class it as, not worth the paper it was written on. Just my opinion, you can have yours even though I am yet to understand the point of our discussion up to now, and for clarity people, anyone, including BJ, can have a change of opinion and do things differently when circumstances change, which they certainly did, didn't they?

How can it ‘not be worth the paper it’s written on’ when it forms a high percentage of the existing agreement? Do you think Johnson would have been able to agree something in a couple of months if the vast majority hadn’t already been sorted?

[NewClaret]

Labour didn’t have the ability to block it, they didn’t have enough MPs.

No, but it would have got through with their support. Instead they formed a coalition and sought to block May’s deal instead of working in the national interest. In the end, we ended up with something worse (according to some) which just underlines the stupidity of their behaviour throughout.