Mcneil - have we seen enough?

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:16 pm

I feel the problem re McNeil is he's always unsure whether to stick or twist. He's getting caught between his natural instinct to attack and his instructions to track back and defend AND when he has the ball to look after it and do the safe thing. This just means he's drifting around the midfield, recycling balls, making little runs forward and then constantly turning sideways or more likely back. I can only assume it's coaching and management instructions, but it's simply taken all the natural flair out of him.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:22 pm

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:16 pm
I feel the problem re McNeil is he's always unsure whether to stick or twist. He's getting caught between his natural instinct to attack and his instructions to track back and defend AND when he has the ball to look after it and do the safe thing. This just means he's drifting around the midfield, recycling balls, making little runs forward and then constantly turning sideways or more likely back. I can only assume it's coaching and management instructions, but it's simply taken all the natural flair out of him.

Why would our coaches ‘coach out’ his flair and creativity? He’s going through a tough time because
a) the team as a whole is underperforming, and
b) the opposition are putting special effort into nullifying his threat

He’s often woefully short of forward options, but for me he needs to be more decisive. He seems to have lost his instinct and often takes too long to use the ball, by which point the chance to attack has gone.

That said, he was one of our only decent players today so this is not the time to criticise his performance.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:26 pm

There was a moment in the first half where McNeil got on the ball with a bit of space in front of him but by the time Wood and Barnes had lumbered forward to support him the moment was gone. The lad simply needs some better footballers around him.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:42 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:22 pm
Why would our coaches ‘coach out’ his flair and creativity? He’s going through a tough time because
a) the team as a whole is underperforming, and
b) the opposition are putting special effort into nullifying his threat

He’s often woefully short of forward options, but for me he needs to be more decisive. He seems to have lost his instinct and often takes too long to use the ball, by which point the chance to attack has gone.

That said, he was one of our only decent players today so this is not the time to criticise his performance.

I think we largely agree here, but when I say his flair is being coached out of him, I think Dyche may have looked at him a year or 18 months ago when Dwight was doing well "offensively", but really was leaving Taylor pretty exposed and had a few words. He would sometimes try runs or little tricks and come unstuck and we were suddenly under pressure. Wasn't it Dwight's mistake in our own half which led to Calvert-Lewin scoring the only goal at Everton away last season? Managers like SD will pick up on that and for Dwight it then becomes more about not making mistakes than about taking risks.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:46 pm

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:42 pm
I think we largely agree here, but when I say his flair is being coached out of him, I think Dyche may have looked at him a year or 18 months ago when Dwight was doing well "offensively", but really was leaving Taylor pretty exposed and had a few words. He would sometimes try runs or little tricks and come unstuck and we were suddenly under pressure. Wasn't it Dwight's mistake in our own half which led to Calvert-Lewin scoring the only goal at Everton away last season? Managers like SD will pick up on that and for Dwight it then becomes more about not making mistakes than about taking risks.

Yes, he definitely improved the defensive side of his game last season along with his strength and stamina. I don’t really see someone who’s game is being stifled by instruction though. If anything Dyche has made an effort to get McNeil involved in the game more in recent games by giving him more of a free role.

I just see a player who’s lacking a bit of confidence playing with a bunch of players suffering from the same problem.

fungus_the_bogeyman · Post by **fungus_the_bogeyman** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:51 pm

Crazy that McNeil is being singled out today. Our only positive player going forward.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:51 pm

he's probably the only 20 year old in the PL who plays just about every minute of every game, and who has done for the previous two seasons.
Young players need resting sometimes.

CBT · Post by **CBT** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:53 pm

Get him in center midfield it's his natural and best position
I know we're short of wingers but would rather have Pieter's and Brownhill out wide if it means getting McNeil more into a game

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:09 pm

Poor lad, he does deserve the stick he is getting.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:11 pm

I liked the way McNeil played today and thought we saw more from him today than any other game this season .
I can remember him twice being penned into the corner flag but still whipping good crosses in. I also saw him make at least a couple of thrusts through the City midfield which showed skill, pace and confidence.
Despite getting thrashed by a significantly better team McNeil, and Benson , showed they have the potential to go on to very good careers if today’s evidence is anything to go by.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:18 pm

I just wish we’d let him fully concentrate on his natural game, attack full backs and not worry too much about the defensive side of it.

It’s hardly like Dyche’s club managers asked him to be something he’s not - a marauding centre half like Franz Beckenbauer for instance.

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:33 pm

He’s definitely not a central midfielder ( can he use his right foot?) and I would only want him on the left wing and attacking if he is to play. Asking him to run backwards and having Taylor attack down the wing is a waste of his time and talents.

If we weren’t desperate for him to play he’d have probably been benched by now. Shame Brady is always in for repairs as looks like we need some cover on the right and left seeing as glass man is also missing again.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:36 pm

Elizabeth wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:11 pm
I liked the way McNeil played today and thought we saw more from him today than any other game this season .
I can remember him twice being penned into the corner flag but still whipping good crosses in. I also saw him make at least a couple of thrusts through the City midfield which showed skill, pace and confidence.
Despite getting thrashed by a significantly better team McNeil, and Benson , showed they have the potential to go on to very good careers if today’s evidence is anything to go by.

I thought he did OK today too

Espia · Post by **Espia** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:48 pm

A very talented lad but his £40m price tag is tumbling very fast atm.

Burnley1989 · Post by **Burnley1989** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:14 pm

SGr wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:08 pm
It’s the fact he keeps rotating on his left and sometimes gets himself in trouble because he just won’t use his right foot. Of course there’s nothing wrong with being one footed, just annoying when that happens.

Ryan Giggs, one of the best to ever play in the premier league. Silly comparison tbf

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:15 pm

The job he does now and the one when he came into the team are night and day. Please give me the old one.

Burnley1989 · Post by **Burnley1989** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:16 pm

Good player, in fact very good by our standards, but not the 50m+ international some folk get carried away with. He’s one, if not our best player, only needs one moment of magic a game to win it for us. Young lad, developing, one of the first names on the team sheet for me

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:17 pm

Let’s criticise the one player who crossed the ball, ran with the ball and created our chances. Just imagine if he had t been playing. Quite unbelievable

Jenny55 · Post by **Jenny55** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:33 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:17 pm
Let’s criticise the one player who crossed the ball, ran with the ball and created our chances. Just imagine if he had t been playing. Quite unbelievable

I agree with you Salisbury, sadly he is the only player in our squad with any flair. If we had a bigger or more talented squad we would have rested him in a few games. However in our current predicament he is probably the third or fourth name on the team sheet after Pope, Mee and Tarks and has to play every game as we have no other options.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:25 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:17 pm
Let’s criticise the one player who crossed the ball, ran with the ball and created our chances. Just imagine if he had t been playing. Quite unbelievable

Totally agree. He’s had some disappointing performances this season but I thought he was one of our best players today.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:30 pm

Certainly notice a growing trend with some posters constant criticism of McNeil. Maybe if we had any sort of current threat going forward on the opposite flank then all the pressure wouldn’t be on him.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:30 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:25 pm
I thought he was one of our best players today.

Agreed.

Give the kid a break.

Did anyone expect anything from today? Me neither.

The whole squad will come good - give them time !

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:31 pm

RalphCoatesComb wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:30 pm
Agreed.

Give the kid a break.

Did anyone expect anything from today? Me neither.

The whole squad will come good - give them time !

It’s a hard watch when we lose like this whoever the opponents are but the overreaction to a hammering from Man City is beyond me.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:49 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:31 pm
It’s a hard watch when we lose like this whoever the opponents are but the overreaction to a hammering from Man City is beyond me.

Can you imagine had that been Hereford 3 Burnley 0 from 30 years ago ?

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:58 pm

RalphCoatesComb wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:49 pm
Can you imagine had that been Hereford 3 Burnley 0 from 30 years ago ?

I was there for that one!! (And me and my girlfriend had to leave our half eaten lunches in a pub when idiots threatened us!! It's fierce place!)

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:01 pm

Dwight has struggled but so have the team, at the moment we are stale something needs to change, the players seem to be mirroring the managers negativity.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:05 pm

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:01 pm
Dwight has struggled but so have the team, at the moment we are stale something needs to change, the players seem to be mirroring the managers negativity.

Aside from today there was an obvious improvement against Palace though.

daveisaclaret · Post by **daveisaclaret** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:07 pm

Bizarre criticism of McNeil, albeit he has struggled at times this season.

The truth of it is that because McNeil burst onto the stage and immediately saved our season and became arguably our best player, some people's expectations burst similarly and there's no appreciation that a slight 21 year old who really doesn't suit Dyche's system is going to continue to win games single-handedly every week regardless of what goes on around him. It's an unfair and stupid expectation.

Compare the way McNeil is spoken about in this thread to how Benson is spoken about in the other thread - McNeil is only two weeks older.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:08 pm

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:01 pm
The players seem to be mirroring the managers negativity.

WOW!

Just WOW!

The most honest of managers, but negative?!

prettygreenclaret · Post by **prettygreenclaret** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:11 pm

I know the game has moved on but our neighbor's down the M65 won the league in 95 playing 4 4 2. 2 strong forwards, 2 hard tackling midfielders and 2 wide men given every licence to get forward as much as possible and deliver the ball into the box, not defend and turn backwards and sideways. They attacked teams with aggression plus some guile. Yes, they had Shearer who was top quality but their wingers weren't expected to defend and supported their forwards much more.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:11 pm

RalphCoatesComb wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:08 pm
WOW!

Just WOW!

The most honest of managers, but negative?!

Your right, he doesn't moan does he ?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:25 pm

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:11 pm
Your right, he doesn't moan does he ?

in comparison to Klopp, who moans as soon as he opens his gob, he hardly ever complains.

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:37 pm

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:07 pm
Bizarre criticism of McNeil, albeit he has struggled at times this season.

The truth of it is that because McNeil burst onto the stage and immediately saved our season and became arguably our best player, some people's expectations burst similarly and there's no appreciation that a slight 21 year old who really doesn't suit Dyche's system is going to continue to win games single-handedly every week regardless of what goes on around him. It's an unfair and stupid expectation.

Compare the way McNeil is spoken about in this thread to how Benson is spoken about in the other thread - McNeil is only two weeks older.

Come on. Lets get real. He was nothing short of a sensation when he first started playing and even in the commentary today they were talking about England albeit in the past tense. Lets not mix him up with Benson. The question is this - what on earth has happened?

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:04 am

RalphCoatesComb wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:08 pm
WOW!

Just WOW!

The most honest of managers, but negative?!

He’s hardly been a ray of sunshine since he threw his teddys out of the cot in our joke of a transfer window.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:34 am

Him and Tarkowski don’t want to be here and it’s written all over their performances. I saw Dwight play for England recently and he was lively and demanded the ball, this season for us he’s strolled around the pitch sulking like some entitled world class player who expects to win every game and every trophy. Their attitudes stink and I wish we’d have sold them both in the summer window.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:36 am

Papabendi wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:37 pm
Come on. Lets get real. He was nothing short of a sensation when he first started playing and even in the commentary today they were talking about England albeit in the past tense. Lets not mix him up with Benson. The question is this - what on earth has happened?

Being told to come inside all the time is what's happened, he's forgot what he was good at, getting chalk on his boots, driving at his full back and whipping crosses in. Go back to basics.

ashtonlongsider · Post by **ashtonlongsider** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:48 am

For me McNeil was a much better player when he first came into the side. He's an obvious talent but at times I feel he is turning into a new George Boyd. Probably alarm some people, me saying this but he's not developed how i'd have hoped. We have to play to his undoubted strengths and in areas of the pitch where his unquestionable skills can be most effective.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:10 am

It strikes me that playing Pieters on the left of midfield would give Taylor defensive support and would then allow Dwight to basically play as an attacking winger, almost entirely in the opposition half. That would allow him to use his creative talent and play to his undoubted strengths.

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:11 am

ashtonlongsider wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:48 am
For me McNeil was a much better player when he first came into the side. He's an obvious talent but at times I feel he is turning into a new George Boyd. Probably alarm some people, me saying this but he's not developed how i'd have hoped. We have to play to his undoubted strengths and in areas of the pitch where his unquestionable skills can be most effective.

sadly, the Boyd analogy is a good one.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:12 am

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:34 am
Him and Tarkowski don’t want to be here and it’s written all over their performances. I saw Dwight play for England recently and he was lively and demanded the ball, this season for us he’s strolled around the pitch sulking like some entitled world class player who expects to win every game and every trophy. Their attitudes stink and I wish we’d have sold them both in the summer window.

Brilliant, KBRFC, it's just like the old days...

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:26 am

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:12 am
Brilliant, KBRFC, it's just like the old days...

I just want players here who want to be here

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:42 am

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:26 am
I just want players here who want to be here

Not sure how you can conclude McNeil doesn't want to be here.

Iloveyoubrady · Post by **Iloveyoubrady** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:52 am

Don’t understand this thread. Thought dm has improved recently and starting to get to form. Thought yesterday was his best game of the season actually. He got a lot of the ball and went forwards despite us having no options at all.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:01 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:26 am
I just want players here who want to be here

He signed a new contract last month

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:02 pm

Is this the same McNeil who ‘doesn’t want to be here’ who recently signed an extended contract?

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:36 pm

There were two crosses that Dwight put in from the by-line that no one had a right to get in, and against a top Premier League team.

It's a good job that Dwight is receiving his advice from his Dad and others that care for him, rather than the ramblings on a so-called fans forum.

If you are unfortunate to read this shoite Dwight, play your game and ignore these would be pundits.