ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

[Tall Paul]

The group, as a whole, will be solvent as long as we are in the PL. So the auditor might put a note about the valuation being provided by the directors, or about the value of football clubs being hard to measure, or something on those lines. But it won't be difficult for the board to find a valuer able to provide an adequate valuation to satisfy the auditor.

So if an independent valuer will value the club at no less than the holding company paid for it and the independent auditors are satisfied, it can't be true that the club is worth £90m less than it was pre sale.

[Darthlaw]

I've got two questions as well.

1. The loan will only be short term. What happens if we do want to repay the capital?
2. when you say we're no worse off, do you mean that having £40m in the bank is neither better nor worse than having nothing in the bank?

1. If you want to repay it, repay it. There may be penalties as it's not like consumer loans but if for instance we finished up in a Bale situation and Benson ended up being sold to Real Madrid for £200m, the whole loan could ( I stress could) be paid off. Chances are though, it would be reinvested to increase the net worth of the club.

They'll be looking to increase the value of the club, with a view to selling it. Best way to look at it is you could use £40k to pay off your mortgage on your house or spend it on a new conservatory which increases the property value by £100k, what do you do?

2. Depends on you banking facility. This is the bonkers bit with business finance. Money is cheap to borrow right now and doesn't generate much interest. Sounds crazy but it is often cheaper to operate using borrowed money than sitting on endless cash reserves.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Hi Darthlaw - understood that the loan isn't going to need to be paid next week, next year etc. But they are going to have to be paid back and that's presumably after we pay what is owed to Garlick and John B. I'd like to be convinced that the yearly profits you speak of will pay these loans/debts back but I don't see it.

My guess would be that if Pace has a choice of keeping Dyche happy or MSD/Garlick/John B happy then it's not going to be Dyche. You made a key point ("as long as we're in the PL) - correct. To do that the manager is going to have to get some backing at some point. Now Dyche has some serious competition for that money. I simply don't see how we can get good investment on the field AND pay off these debts. I don't see how that circle is squared.

The long term plan is to grow the club and its revenue streams, keep us in the PL and move up the table to become regulars in the top 10.

[KateR]

as opposed to a long term plan that said take on debt, do nothing, stay static, not generate anymore revenue or profit beyond previous years, ensure we are unable to service the debt, sell payers/stars to cover said short fall, get relegated, sell more players and hopefully when we run out of players to sell we can sell the ground and training ground to developers. Now that's a well thought out plan that will work with certainty and involve very little risk, of course the added benefits will be that we as the owners will enhance our reputation and go another club to ruin. They'll never see it coming.

[ChristheViking]

again I will say you're missing the point, you're also now making 2 + 2 = 5 in the bargain.

The new owners didn't take on debt to ensure that the managers budget is less, quite the opposite to be exact, however when you first speculate and take on debt there is virtually no business that changes fortunes immediately. It takes time, having debt is not a problem to any business and where it is perceived to be beneficial more debt leads to higher revenue and profit. You just need a sound business plan to be able to service the debt and increase revenues beyond repayment structures, it's business 101.

Perception says if we had 50 million in the bank and no debt then it must be better than having a sizable debt and less free cash, this is not always the case and in the BFC case I would say the potential upside is good in that in a year or two we will see the benefits but there is additional risk.

Of course you can see it how you wish, it's just my opinion and it's what I do for a living but I have done deals that went wrong, that is the risk you take and there is no doubt that BFC is carrying far more risk than that, which was carried under the previous owners.

Understood (and agree!) that debt and debt management is part and parcel of business. My issue is the size of these debts. And if the suggestions on Twitter are remotely accurate that there may be a scramble to pay back the first installment to Garlick and John B then that does not bode well for any business model.

Within all this debt is the old adage. If you owe the bank $100 it's your problem. If you owe the bank $100m it's the bank's problem. My concern remains that staying in the PL (with the investment needed to do that) is not easily compatible with keeping our now multiple creditors happy.

2+2 = 3 is just as wrong as 2+2=5.

[JohnDearyMe]

Does anyone know Barry Kilbys views on the sale of the club etc

I don't want to alarm anyone but he has just chained himself to the entrance of the Bob Lord stand...

[Darthlaw]

Hi Darthlaw - understood that the loan isn't going to need to be paid next week, next year etc. But they are going to have to be paid back and that's presumably after we pay what is owed to Garlick and John B. I'd like to be convinced that the yearly profits you speak of will pay these loans/debts back but I don't see it.

I can almost guarantee that the capital will barely be paid back. Thats how these companies operate. That said, they will be able to pay back the interest payments and allow for some working capital to make player purchases.

Think of it like buying a house on a credit card. They will continue to make the interest payments but the debt will remain. They'll also have money to make running repairs but their ultimate aim is to increase the value of the house, and pay back the credit card keeping any profit for themselves.
They have no interest in the house falling down through poor maintenance as they don't make any money.

My guess would be that if Pace has a choice of keeping Dyche happy or MSD/Garlick/John B happy then it's not going to be Dyche. You made a key point ("as long as we're in the PL) - correct. To do that the manager is going to have to get some backing at some point. Now Dyche has some serious competition for that money. I simply don't see how we can get good investment on the field AND pay off these debts. I don't see how that circle is squared.

The money will be there but given they've been in the seat for around five weeks, it may be prudent to give them chance to look round and see how much they need to spend.

Basically, this may all be a disaster in the long term and you may be completely correct. That said, it's better to err on the side of optimism at this point, given all the facts available, which suggest a fairly normal way of purchasing a business.

Particularly worth keeping that in mind no matter how sensationalist the headline written by a journo who's had the quietest transfer window in years and needs clicks for his editor...

[ChristheViking]

The long term plan is to grow the club and its revenue streams, keep us in the PL and move up the table to become regulars in the top 10.

Understood. That's what Pace has said. Sounds great doesn't it. What hasn't been said is how that is going to happen.

I have a long term plan to own a Ferrari 488 but until I figure out how exactly I'm going to do it it will remain little more than a pipe dream.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Understood. That's what Pace has said. Sounds great doesn't it. What hasn't been said is how that is going to happen.

I have a long term plan to own a Ferrari 488 but until I figure out how exactly I'm going to do it it will remain little more than a pipe dream.

If you formulated a plan to reach your goal would you share it with everyone else or would you just set about doing it?

A business is under no obligation to share its financial planning with anyone outside of said business.
As customers, we expect to see results which is fair enough, we should not expect access to private information that will help the club grow.

[dsr]

1. If you want to repay it, repay it. There may be penalties as it's not like consumer loans but if for instance we finished up in a Bale situation and Benson ended up being sold to Real Madrid for £200m, the whole loan could ( I stress could) be paid off. Chances are though, it would be reinvested to increase the net worth of the club.

They'll be looking to increase the value of the club, with a view to selling it. Best way to look at it is you could use £40k to pay off your mortgage on your house or spend it on a new conservatory which increases the property value by £100k, what do you do?

2. Depends on you banking facility. This is the bonkers bit with business finance. Money is cheap to borrow right now and doesn't generate much interest. Sounds crazy but it is often cheaper to operate using borrowed money than sitting on endless cash reserves.

It's never cheaper to operate with borrowed money. It is often more profitable because you can put the money to better use, but no business ever, if given a choice between keeping a pot of money or lending it interest free to someone who may not be able to pay it back, would choose to lend it.

As for repaying the loan, what with? We have no money. We could only repay pay it by selling something, eg. Tarkowski, or by taking out another loan. These sort of loans are virtually always short term, so we are looking only 2 or 3 years down the line.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It's never cheaper to operate with borrowed money. It is often more profitable because you can put the money to better use, but no business ever, if given a choice between keeping a pot of money or lending it interest free to someone who may not be able to pay it back, would choose to lend it.

As for repaying the loan, what with? We have no money. We could only repay pay it by selling something, eg. Tarkowski, or by taking out another loan. These sort of loans are virtually always short term, so we are looking only 2 or 3 years down the line.

GROWTH
OF
REVENUE
STREAMS

That's the main plan, not just selling players

[NewClaret]

I have no issue with the debt. We've known that there was some debt involved for weeks. No need to have a meltdown now. In fact, it's arguably less than initially expected.

The debt, if it's £60m as reported, would be like someone on £130k a year having a £60k mortgage. Not crazy. Don't get me wrong, we were in a better position before but arguably now have investors capable of growing the club. We also would've paid tax on profits at a far higher rate than the debt so in some ways, it offsets.

What's changed today is that, if the Guardian report is to be believed, MG/JB have ridden off in to the sunset with £30-£40m of the clubs cash. The cash many on here said they were saving for a rainy day, to buy dry powder (certainly not players!) or had been eroded by Covid (thus excellent financial planning on their behalf).

If that is true it's disgraceful, particularly in context of the lack of squad investment over the last three years. And you also can't help but conclude it must have had a baring on our inability to sign players in January. I have no issue with Pace wanting to buy in to Burnley, but it's starting to look like the outgoing Chairman/key shareholder have done something very dodgy!

[KRBFC]

Two questions:

2. ALK are an investment firm. What money have they actually invested in our club apart from perhaps their goodwill in getting the loan (having bought a controlling interest in the club via the club's cash and that loan on club assets)?

They are in investment firm with no money, just borrowed money at insane interest rates. Between the people involved in ALK, I'd bet they don't have over £5M between them. No idea how they've managed to buy a PL club on loan. Wonga FC

[boyyanno]

Pace said initially that when the details for the takeover came out that Burnley fans would be pleased with the structure of the deal, surely if this was the case then now would be as good a time as any....

[kentonclaret]

When Barry Kilby said that Burnley had the template and financial model for other clubs to follow was this what he had in mind?

[KRBFC]

The only reason we sell Pope, McNeil and Tarks to pay debts is if we are relegated.

Which would be a disgrace, selling our best player to fund ALKs debt, to buy ALK shares in the club. Morally so wrong, on many levels. All this hard work to buy and develop international players (before ALK arrived) to buy shares in our club for people who had nothing to do with the buying or developing of these players.

Why should the club assets and money be used to buy other people shares? I would understand if the debt was taken out to improve youth facilities, player recruitment or stadium improvements then fair enough.

Like I said, the club is effectively buying itself new owners for £150M rather than new owners buying the club.

[KateR]

Understood. That's what Pace has said. Sounds great doesn't it. What hasn't been said is how that is going to happen.

I have a long term plan to own a Ferrari 488 but until I figure out how exactly I'm going to do it it will remain little more than a pipe dream.

Just borrow the money and go into debt, buy that Ferrari, that is exactly how you do it, I don't see your problem

Easy isn't it, then of course you might say, no one is going to lend me that money because I don't have a viable plan to pay it back. Exactly like any lender will regardless whether it's 100 thousand or 100 million, you need a viable plan. The new owners of BFC have a viable plan that was checked and acceptable to the lender, that provides some level of comfort but as said still plenty of risk with it. A secondary check was made through the previous owners so again another level of comfort.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

If that is true it's disgraceful, particularly in context of the lack of squad investment over the last three years. And you also can't help but conclude it must have had a baring on our inability to sign players in January. I have no issue with Pace wanting to buy in to Burnley, but it's starting to look like the outgoing Chairman/key shareholder have done something very dodgy!

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1951248

All of the PL transfers for January, take special note of the number of loans.
Quietest January window for 10yrs I think it is, with a total of £70 million and that includes West Ham making their loan for the lad from Brentford a permanent transfer as planned for about £20 million.
Any reason you can think of for 19 other clubs to have quiet transfer window?

So you're of the opinion our former chairman and 2nd majority share holder have done something dodgy?
Can't wait for the proof of that one...

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Which would be a disgrace, selling our best player to fund ALKs debt, to buy ALK shares in the club. Morally so wrong, on many levels. All this hard work to buy and develop international players (before ALK arrived) to buy shares in our club for people who had nothing to do with the buying or developing of these players.

Why should the club assets and money be used to buy other people shares? I would understand if the debt was taken out to improve youth facilities, player recruitment or stadium improvements then fair enough.

Like I said, the club is effectively buying itself new owners for £150M rather than new owners buying the club.

If we got relegated and didn't come back up at the first attempt we'd have to sell our best players anyway.

[Darthlaw]

If we got relegated and didn't come back up at the first attempt we'd have to sell our best players anyway.

Was about to say that.

Exactly what do people think would happen any differently if the previous owners were in charge?

[KRBFC]

If we got relegated and didn't come back up at the first attempt we'd have to sell our best players anyway.

I have no problem with us selling our best players upon relegation, but that cash would've helped run the club and gave us some security. £70M from Pope Tarkowski Mcneil after relegation is a sizable fee to tick us over and help rebuild. Now it seems that cash would be used to cover ALK debts that were taken out to buy shares, morally its wrong.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I have no problem with us selling our best players upon relegation, but that cash would've helped run the club and gave us some security. £70M from Pope Tarkowski Mcneil after relegation is a sizable fee to tick us over and help rebuild. Now it seems that cash would be used to cover ALK debts that were taken out to buy shares, morally its wrong.

Darthlaw, amongst others, has explained it all far better than I could in regards to paying back this loan.

[ewanrob]

You have to wonder just how bad the Chris Farnell and Mohamed El Kashashy bid was, if this was the prefered one.

[KateR]

seems to me, many of the same people worrying about the debt are the same people worrying about relegation for the past five years, due to no investment or ambition from the board, I always say be careful what you wish for, because we now have an ambitious board. Part of the puzzle solved, now we just need to be a little patient waiting for the investment, which can only come from changes that increase revenue/profit.

[Darthlaw]

I think if you were hoping for some benevolent take over from some squillionaire, you might have been waiting for some time.

It may not be moral, but this is how business is done.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

seems to me, many of the same people worrying about the debt are the same people worrying about relegation for the past five years, due to no investment or ambition from the board, I always say be careful what you wish for, because we now have an ambitious board. Part of the puzzle solved, now we just need to be a little patient waiting for the investment, which can only come from changes that increase revenue/profit.

It's almost like they'll never be happy no matter what the club does

[ChristheViking]

Just borrow the money and go into debt, buy that Ferrari, that is exactly how you do it, I don't see your problem

Easy isn't it, then of course you might say, no one is going to lend me that money because I don't have a viable plan to pay it back. Exactly like any lender will regardless whether it's 100 thousand or 100 million, you need a viable plan. The new owners of BFC have a viable plan that was checked and acceptable to the lender, that provides some level of comfort but as said still plenty of risk with it. A secondary check was made through the previous owners so again another level of comfort.

I could do that I guess but I think my bank would want to know a bit more of how and when they'd get their money back over and above me saying "I'm going to increase my revenue streams"

The main revenue stream is obviously the TV money - we need to stay in the PL for that main reason. Matchday revenues must be significant but we weren't filling the ground even when we got into Europe. The commercial side has been doing excellent but they're now going to have do way better than excellent to go above what we already have. Finding a viable shirt sponsor is probably critical. By the way if there is one good thing to come out of this is that it probably gives a much needed reality check to all those who wanted a charity as the sponsor vs a betting company when it's self-evident we need every last penny we can get. Get another betting company in and take the money.

The new owners of BFC have a plan. Whether it's a viable one as you say is very much to be seen.

[Dixie Normous]

I think you need to calm down.

I think you should you know what

[KRBFC]

I think if you were hoping for some benevolent take over from some squillionaire, you might have been waiting for some time.

It may not be moral, but this is how business is done.

I was hoping for a takeover from people with enough money to buy their own shares and not potentially rely on using the assets already in the club to afford it.

[KRBFC]

Didn't G&H buy Liverpool the same way? I know the Glazers have done the same with Man United who are now £600M in debt and the Glazers have taken close to £1BN out of the club. We aren't comparable to those sides in terms of income or potential income.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I could do that I guess but I think my bank would want to know a bit more of how and when they'd get their money back over and above me saying "I'm going to increase my revenue streams"

The main revenue stream is obviously the TV money - we need to stay in the PL for that main reason. Matchday revenues must be significant but we weren't filling the ground even when we got into Europe. The commercial side has been doing excellent but they're now going to have do way better than excellent to go above what we already have. Finding a viable shirt sponsor is probably critical. By the way if there is one good thing to come out of this is that it probably gives a much needed reality check to all those who wanted a charity as the sponsor vs a betting company when it's self-evident we need every last penny we can get. Get another betting company in and take the money.

The new owners of BFC have a plan. Whether it's a viable one as you say is very much to be seen.

The commercial side has been doing OK, not excellent.

How many of the sponsors in the ground are local companies?
We'd make more with international sponsors for example.

[Darthlaw]

The commercial side has been doing excellent.

In my dealings with BFC, as a business owner, and the level to which the Manchester clubs chase (and many others in the North West) I can tell you that is amazingly far from reality.

I've pretty much had to chase them to give them my custom in the past.

[RicardoMontalban]

I think you should you know what

Or don’t, suit yourself.

[Chester Perry]

I could do that I guess but I think my bank would want to know a bit more of how and when they'd get their money back over and above me saying "I'm going to increase my revenue streams"

The main revenue stream is obviously the TV money - we need to stay in the PL for that main reason. Matchday revenues must be significant but we weren't filling the ground even when we got into Europe. The commercial side has been doing excellent but they're now going to have do way better than excellent to go above what we already have. Finding a viable shirt sponsor is probably critical. By the way if there is one good thing to come out of this is that it probably gives a much needed reality check to all those who wanted a charity as the sponsor vs a betting company when it's self-evident we need every last penny we can get. Get another betting company in and take the money.

The new owners of BFC have a plan. Whether it's a viable one as you say is very much to be seen.

The commercial side, like many in the Premier League has been pretty humdrum actually, though picked up in the last couple of years (mainly from betting companies). Ask yourself why Leeds in the Championship were earning more commercial income than over half the Premier League and why this year, they will likely earn more commercial income than all but the big six. They have better structures by which to build it, their ownership is very smart.

[KateR]

I could do that I guess but I think my bank would want to know a bit more of how and when they'd get their money back over and above me saying "I'm going to increase my revenue streams"

The main revenue stream is obviously the TV money - we need to stay in the PL for that main reason. Matchday revenues must be significant but we weren't filling the ground even when we got into Europe. The commercial side has been doing excellent but they're now going to have do way better than excellent to go above what we already have. Finding a viable shirt sponsor is probably critical. By the way if there is one good thing to come out of this is that it probably gives a much needed reality check to all those who wanted a charity as the sponsor vs a betting company when it's self-evident we need every last penny we can get. Get another betting company in and take the money.

The new owners of BFC have a plan. Whether it's a viable one as you say is very much to be seen.

yes Chris, exactly all of that, I thought Vikings were supposed to be strong and fearless? They always had good strategic plans that worked most of the time, just sometimes there were wrinkles in the plan occasionally, but it never stopped them trying the same plan again and it working again.

Could you sell your body and gain some extra income that way? A second job, change career, buying more lottery tickets won't cut it but it's also a plan

I always laugh and think of the guys who started Starbucks and Amazon, imaging them sitting with a banker/lender, yes I'm going to start with a coffee shop but it will be different and from there, I will take over the world one town at a time; yes I'm going to start selling books online, no no, it won't be just books, it will be millions of different things. Of course they are extreme things but the vision and planning was extraordinary and we mere mortals would have laughed at them or if we knew them well, such as family and friends, we would have told them they were crazy, you're going into debt to do what, you're certifiable, you're lose your shirt as well as your house!!!

[ChristheViking]

The commercial side has been doing OK, not excellent.

How many of the sponsors in the ground are local companies?
We'd make more with international sponsors for example.

The shirt sponsorship deal (with an international sponsor) was the biggest commercial deal in the Club's history. It put us in the top 10 of shirt sponsorship deals in the Premier League. That's a pretty impressive job from our Commercial team. But now they have to do better because as well helping maintain the budget for the manager they've also got their part to play in reducing a 90m debt.

And that's the concern. How much more is in the well to pay off these debts? What/where are these new revenue streams that are going to cover these debts - that's what we're all wondering right?

[Hipper]

The commercial side, like many in the Premier League has been pretty humdrum actually, though picked up in the last couple of years (mainly from betting companies). Ask yourself why Leeds in the Championship were earning more commercial income than over half the Premier League and why this year, they will likely earn more commercial income than all but the big six. They have better structures by which to build it, their ownership is very smart.

1. Could Garic and co have borrowed money at 9% or whatever to finance the clubs growth?

2. Could Garlic and co have not brought in some CEO who had the ability to find new areas of growth?

Of course I appreciate they may not have wanted to.

[ChristheViking]

yes Chris, exactly all of that, I thought Vikings were supposed to be strong and fearless? They always had good strategic plans that worked most of the time, just sometimes there were wrinkles in the plan occasionally, but it never stopped them trying the same plan again and it working again.

Could you sell your body and gain some extra income that way? A second job, change career, buying more lottery tickets won't cut it but it's also a plan

I always laugh and think of the guys who started Starbucks and Amazon, imaging them sitting with a banker/lender, yes I'm going to start with a coffee shop but it will be different and from there, I will take over the world one town at a time; yes I'm going to start selling books online, no no, it won't be just books, it will be millions of different things. Of course they are extreme things but the vision and planning was extraordinary and we mere mortals would have laughed at them or if we knew them well, such as family and friends, we would have told them they were crazy, you're going into debt to do what, you're certifiable, you're lose your shirt as well as your house!!!

I'm very fearless Kate and I assure you that when I turn up on Harry Potts Way in my new Ferrari that you can join me in it and we can sing No Nay Never together and rejoice over the latest BFC balance sheet. I admire your positivity and optimism and it's good because what I'm reading elsewhere on social media about this takeover is not filling me with optimism am afraid.

The Starbucks and Amazon examples - I know what you mean - it all starts somewhere. But it's apples and pears. Everyone drinks coffee and everyone reads. The market is wide. Our market has got wider for sure but the majority of the club's revenue from people is from fans of this club. We might have a few odd new fans in Thailand who order the Love Bet training gear but we're not Man United with their reach. As such I remain intrigued and concerned with what new revenue streams will bridge these debts while at the same time we stay competitive on the field.

[Darthlaw]

And that's the concern. How much more is in the well to pay off these debts? What/where are these new revenue streams that are going to cover these debts - that's what we're all wondering right?

I think thats the part many are struggling to visualise due to a lack of exposure to foreign business and the prestige associated with the PL. Christ sake even the muppets down the road still get exposure in South East asia due to their ongoing adverts with the Venkys. It's not that hard to imagine that some brands will want to be associated with a PL team and, most likely, we'll be non the wiser in the UK.

There's a reason that the club were looking to appoint someone to go do this but I'm not sure if it fell by the wayside with the takeover.

As has already been pointed out, one of our new chiefs used to run the MSG and others have had experience with Real Salt Lake and the MLS. Certainly I'm willing to bet they'll have some contacts they can leverage to get us into new markets with new sponsors. At the very least, there'll be some fresh ideas to bring to the club.

On a personal note, if they can get the commercial department to even engage with their audience it'll be a good start.

[Spijed]

Even Man U. supporters are talking about it as they think it's similar to their deal:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/burnley ... ut.460642/

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The shirt sponsorship deal (with an international sponsor) was the biggest commercial deal in the Club's history. It put us in the top 10 of shirt sponsorship deals in the Premier League. That's a pretty impressive job from our Commercial team. But now they have to do better because as well helping maintain the budget for the manager they've also got their part to play in reducing a 90m debt.

And that's the concern. How much more is in the well to pay off these debts? What/where are these new revenue streams that are going to cover these debts - that's what we're all wondering right?

Revenue can be generated by better sponsorship deals, as already mentioned and that's going to be the main one, we need more international sponsorship, we are PL club which comes with large viewing numbers around the world.
That should be a selling point for a large international company, not for the local plumber.

Retail sales - a lot of us don't like the shops website for example, or the items on offer.
Stock levels can also be an issue.
Also as Chester mentioned more targeted emails etc using information stored about us.
For example, if I got an email on my birthday offering me x amount off my basket with a one off code, I'd be more inclined to spend.
I don't recall ever getting such an email...

Match day revenue (when we are allowed back in), could grow through various means.

Clarets player could improve content, personally I've never used it so couldn't tell you what the content is like but the fact that I've never bothered with it would suggest it's not really marketed that well.
I've paid for access to the NFL app before though and last year for a while it was free to use and filled with content including all of the games from a number of the previous seasons, documentaries etc.

Ticket sales could be improved, we rarely sell out even when doing well.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I'm very fearless Kate and I assure you that when I turn up on Harry Potts Way in my new Ferrari that you can join me in it and we can sing No Nay Never together and rejoice over the latest BFC balance sheet. I admire your positivity and optimism and it's good because what I'm reading elsewhere on social media about this takeover is not filling me with optimism am afraid.

The Starbucks and Amazon examples - I know what you mean - it all starts somewhere. But it's apples and pears. Everyone drinks coffee and everyone reads. The market is wide. Our market has got wider for sure but the majority of the club's revenue from people is from fans of this club. We might have a few odd new fans in Thailand who order the Love Bet training gear but we're not Man United with their reach. As such I remain intrigued and concerned with what new revenue streams will bridge these debts while at the same time we stay competitive on the field.

We have the reach of Utd because of the PL TV deal, we don't have the influence or attraction that's the difference.

We need to take more advantage of the reach and we can do that through success on the pitch and a better marketing team.

[Boss Hogg]

Interesting reading the Man Utd forum. Without the emotion and from the outside looking they don’t like it one bit for a club of our size.

[KateR]

I'm very fearless Kate and I assure you that when I turn up on Harry Potts Way in my new Ferrari that you can join me in it and we can sing No Nay Never together and rejoice over the latest BFC balance sheet. I admire your positivity and optimism and it's good because what I'm reading elsewhere on social media about this takeover is not filling me with optimism am afraid.

The Starbucks and Amazon examples - I know what you mean - it all starts somewhere. But it's apples and pears. Everyone drinks coffee and everyone reads. The market is wide. Our market has got wider for sure but the majority of the club's revenue from people is from fans of this club. We might have a few odd new fans in Thailand who order the Love Bet training gear but we're not Man United with their reach. As such I remain intrigued and concerned with what new revenue streams will bridge these debts while at the same time we stay competitive on the field.

It sounds good but I'll give the singing a miss because you would immediately throw me out of the car!

I remain intrigued as to how they pull this off and as yet there is in my opinion a lot of untapped potential that can be exploited regarding BFC, I'm optimistic they will show us how to do this but definitely not confident yet and remain to be convinced on that side, but it takes time so am patient. The debt side and the structuring is done and dusted, we as fans can only hope there plan works.

I will say I have done numerous business plans and sat with many people and had to face a board of directors trying to convince them my plan will work, there have always been doubters and numerous questions raised where there were no certain answers, just strategies based upon the business. Even when plans were passed and rolled out there were many middle managers that had no belief in them and certain customers were skeptical, all you can do at that point is roll it out and see whether you were right or wrong, inevitably the results were somewhere in the middle, which is why we do worst base and best cases.

All I keep saying is give them a chance.

[Dixie Normous]

It sounds good but I'll give the singing a miss because you would immediately throw me out of the car!

I remain intrigued as to how they pull this off and as yet there is in my opinion a lot of untapped potential that can be exploited regarding BFC, I'm optimistic they will show us how to do this but definitely not confident yet and remain to be convinced on that side, but it takes time so am patient. The debt side and the structuring is done and dusted, we as fans can only hope there plan works.

I will say I have done numerous business plans and sat with many people and had to face a board of directors trying to convince them my plan will work, there have always been doubters and numerous questions raised where there were no certain answers, just strategies based upon the business. Even when plans were passed and rolled out there were many middle managers that had no belief in them and certain customers were skeptical, all you can do at that point is roll it out and see whether you were right or wrong, inevitably the results were somewhere in the middle, which is why we do worst base and best cases.

All I keep saying is give them a chance.

Yeah give them a chance to destroy the club , what could go wrong ?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

A club can be "destroyed" by any owner, whether they be fans who became rich, or foreign owners.

The club has been fortunate with a number of decisions over the years, but let's not forget when Dyche took over he had to sell Austin because the club was skint due to a number of poor decisions.

[DomBFC1882]

United fans seem to echo my feelings on this. Obviously coming from a neutral gives a more balanced view and they seem concerned

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Utd fans went through a phase of wearing green and yellow scarves as a protest.

I've checked Burnleys original colours... We may need to think of something different

[NottsClaret]

I hope nobody who likes 'bumping' threads, bumps one of those lengthy, erstwhile ones from all of 6 months ago where we all burst with pride about the uniqueness of having local owners, being debt-free, living within our means, building slowly, acquiring that rainy-day fund.. because it'll like a bit odd next to this one where half of the very same posters are now falling over themselves to positively spin our foreign leveraged, Glazer-style buy out, saddling us with mountains of debt in the midst of a global crisis thanks to our new US overlords.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Or we could bump such a thread where people are praising our former owners and are now accusing those same former owners of being shady...