Hypothetical transfers

[Darthlaw]

I was highlighting that it’s okay saying how well Brentford are at making profits, but if you’re not achieving anything on the pitch then it’s pretty silly suggesting Burnley should copy the Brentford model. Isn’t it?

They have their model, we have ours. When did Brentford have 2 top 10 finishes in the Premier League. When did Brentford get into the Europa League qualifiers?

When did Brentford have Sean Dyche as manager? I'll ask again - do you think Dyche in charge of Brentford would have got to the PL? Would BFC have made it to the PL without Dyche?

Seriously now, are you genuinely suggesting we wouldn't benefit from a recruitment team that has generated in excess of £50m in the last two seasons, whilst ours has blown £10m. One that signs the likes of Benrahma for £1.5m vs £1m for Stephens?

If you are, then fair enough. Crack on.

[Dyched]

When did Brentford have Sean Dyche as manager? I'll ask again - do you think Dyche in charge of Brentford would have got to the PL? Would BFC have made it to the PL without Dyche?

Seriously now, are you genuinely suggesting we wouldn't benefit from a recruitment team that has generated in excess of £50m in the last two seasons, whilst ours has blown £10m. One that signs the likes of Benrahma for £1.5m vs £1m for Stephens?

If you are, then fair enough. Crack on.

So what you’re saying is, Brentford have had a business put in place for the past 6 seasons for Sean Dyche even though he isn’t there?

Plus I’d rather have the Burnley model of buying Dale Stephens for £1m and putting him on the bench in the Premier League. Than buying Benrahama for £1.5m finishing 11th and 3rd in and remaining in the Championship.

[Darthlaw]

I'm saying I'd prefer the management of Dyche, with the recruitment team of Brentford at Burnley Football club. You asked why and I've explained.

The fact you can't get your head around such a hypothetical scenario, is clear to see.

By the way, keep making signings of the standard we have in the last 4 transfer windows and we'll be back in the Championship soon enough. Dyche or no Dyche.

[Chester Perry]

with regards to Brentford
- they have made some significant book profits on some players that is very true
- they have also had to pass a fair wedge of that through in sell on clauses - Toney has one similar to Tarks
- they have financed the model through significant owner loans and facilitated through proprietary tech from the owner's other business interests
- player trading as a revenue stream is considered by many informed observers as being a difficult market in the next few years
- the coach has no real say in player acquisitions, imagine Dyche accepting that given what we know
- the stadium move will see them generating some property deal profit as a result of being in London

[StTedsOB]

So what you’re saying is, Brentford have had a business put in place for the past 6 seasons for Sean Dyche even though he isn’t there?

Plus I’d rather have the Burnley model of buying Dale Stephens for £1m and putting him on the bench in the Premier League. Than buying Benrahama for £1.5m finishing 11th and 3rd in and remaining in the Championship.

To be honest there’s a growing number of supporters who would rather be competing for promotion in the Championship and playing the style of football Brentford have been with players like Benrahma, Watkins etc than watching us struggle in the Premier League.
Especially when you see the likes of Dale Stephens rocking up at the club for one last payday - and whilst I understand why we signed him and the restrictions we were under from purely a footballing point of view I think seeing Dale Winton in a burnley shirt is almost on a par with Dale Stephens in terms of excitement levels (RIP DW)

And no that does not mean I think SD is anything other than the best manager of Burnley by a country mile in my lifetime. It’s more reflective of how difficult the Premier League can be when you are a club like Burnley where the manager and players have to perform miracles every season to just stay up and you still end up losing a lot more games than you win. There’s only so much enjoyment you can get from restricting Man City to 2 goals and seeing your team not touch the ball for 80% of the game !! Compare that to thrashing Forest 5-0 on the Turf and run them ragged and I know which 2 hours of my time I enjoyed the most !

[DomBFC1882]

To be honest there’s a growing number of supporters who would rather be competing for promotion in the Championship and playing the style of football Brentford have been with players like Benrahma, Watkins etc than watching us struggle in the Premier League.
Especially when you see the likes of Dale Stephens rocking up at the club for one last payday - and whilst I understand why we signed him and the restrictions we were under from purely a footballing point of view I think seeing Dale Winton in a burnley shirt is almost on a par with Dale Stephens in terms of excitement levels (RIP DW)

And no that does not mean I think SD is anything other than the best manager of Burnley by a country mile in my lifetime. It’s more reflective of how difficult the Premier League can be when you are a club like Burnley where the manager and players have to perform miracles every season to just stay up and you still end up losing a lot more games than you win. There’s only so much enjoyment you can get from restricting Man City to 2 goals and seeing your team not touch the ball for 80% of the game !! Compare that to thrashing Forest 5-0 on the Turf and run them ragged and I know which 2 hours of my time I enjoyed the most !

And quite simply what is more entertaining of the 2?

[Right_winger]

Dyches man management is not under question, however his transfer record is. He is poor at recruitment. Look at the state of our squad, this has happened on Dyches watch.

I personally wouldn’t trust Dyche with cash to spend as he will waste it on old has beens. I suspect Mike Garlick come to the same conclusion hence the fall out with the stubborn one.

[Dyched]

To be honest there’s a growing number of supporters who would rather be competing for promotion in the Championship and playing the style of football Brentford have been with players like Benrahma, Watkins etc than watching us struggle in the Premier League.
Especially when you see the likes of Dale Stephens rocking up at the club for one last payday - and whilst I understand why we signed him and the restrictions we were under from purely a footballing point of view I think seeing Dale Winton in a burnley shirt is almost on a par with Dale Stephens in terms of excitement levels (RIP DW)

And no that does not mean I think SD is anything other than the best manager of Burnley by a country mile in my lifetime. It’s more reflective of how difficult the Premier League can be when you are a club like Burnley where the manager and players have to perform miracles every season to just stay up and you still end up losing a lot more games than you win. There’s only so much enjoyment you can get from restricting Man City to 2 goals and seeing your team not touch the ball for 80% of the game !! Compare that to thrashing Forest 5-0 on the Turf and run them ragged and I know which 2 hours of my time I enjoyed the most !

You do realise the last time we were in that league and actually the last time we played Brentford we won. Not only that we played them off the park in probably the best 45 minutes I’ve ever seen a Burnley team put in up until that point. Which perfectly takes me onto my next point. You used the Manchester City game as an example of the reality of us being in the Premier League. Why didn’t you use the performance at Stamford Bridge? The results at Old Trafford, Anfield, Goodison, West Ham?

Whilst I take your point of being entertained. How would you feel 6 years down the line when we sell our best players and flirt with the idea of promotion each and every season? I’m pretty sure you’d speak up about us failing year after year, selling players every season.

[StTedsOB]

And quite simply what is more entertaining of the 2?

Love being in the Premier League - great for the town, our supporters and the whole community.
And we have had a number of standout performances in this league which have been every enjoyable / entertaining.

But the odd season of winning the championship, being promoted and playing the kind of football we did in all 3 of our promotion winning seasons was also extremely enjoyable and yes more entertaining than watching us struggle most weeks.

Staying in the Premier League is more important for the club and the town so that is the one I prefer. It’s not all about entertainment unfortunately - not for me anyway !

[StTedsOB]

You do realise the last time we were in that league and actually the last time we played Brentford we won. Not only that we played them off the park in probably the best 45 minutes I’ve ever seen a Burnley team put in up until that point. Which perfectly takes me onto my next point. You used the Manchester City game as an example of the reality of us being in the Premier League. Why didn’t you use the performance at Stamford Bridge? The results at Old Trafford, Anfield, Goodison, West Ham?

Whilst I take your point of being entertained. How would you feel 6 years down the line when we sell our best players and flirt with the idea of promotion each and every season? I’m pretty sure you’d speak up about us failing year after year, selling players every season.

Think I’ve answered that above. It’s not all about entertainment and I prefer to stay in the Premier League.
And yes we were brilliant the last time we played Brentford and I loved that game - and I loved beating Chelsea, City, United etc even more as they are even bigger achievements.
I’ve supported Burnley and followed them across the country for more than 40 years now and Dyche has given the club most successful period by a long way in all those years. He is an incredible manager doing an unbelievable job.
That doesn’t mean it’s always enjoyable and a lot of that is to do more about the aspects of the Premier League that many football fans don’t enjoy and how rich many of the clubs have become etc.

You seem to have a massive beef about Brentford and taking this as some kind of criticism of SD and Burnley. I have never said that Brentford has performed better than Burnley in the last 10 years...they very clearly haven’t. The difference seems to be that I can accept that other teams like Brentford can also do things well whereas you seem to want to pick apart their successes. Have a check of their history and what they ‘achieved’ before the last decade and you’ll see them spending most of their history in the same echelons as we had to endure in the 1980s and without the success and history we had before that.

[Dyched]

Think I’ve answered that above. It’s not all about entertainment and I prefer to stay in the Premier League.
And yes we were brilliant the last time we played Brentford and I loved that game - and I loved beating Chelsea, City, United etc even more as they are even bigger achievements.
I’ve supported Burnley and followed them across the country for more than 40 years now and Dyche has given the club most successful period by a long way in all those years. He is an incredible manager doing an unbelievable job.
That doesn’t mean it’s always enjoyable and a lot of that is to do more about the aspects of the Premier League that many football fans don’t enjoy and how rich many of the clubs have become etc.

You seem to have a massive beef about Brentford and taking this as some kind of criticism of SD and Burnley. I have never said that Brentford has performed better than Burnley in the last 10 years...they very clearly haven’t. The difference seems to be that I can accept that other teams like Brentford can also do things well whereas you seem to want to pick apart their successes. Have a check of their history and what they ‘achieved’ before the last decade and you’ll see them spending most of their history in the same echelons as we had to endure in the 1980s and without the success and history we had before that.

I have beef when people bring into last night, Brentford. The simple facts are they’ve been in the Championship since 2014/15. Flirted with the Play offs, been in them twice, once to Wembley the other time blown away in the Semi Finals. They sell their best players every year. All that is quite similar to what we were doing in that league for years and years. Apart from Tarkowski and Watkins (This season) none of the players they’ve sold have become Premier League players over a certain amount of years. So when people say we should do what they do, it’s absolute nonsense. It’s like Manchester City fans whinging and saying “Why don’t we copy the Burnley model?” “They buy players cheap like Pope”. It’s nonsense.

[StTedsOB]

It’s got nothing to do with last night I agree.
That was simply down to us not having good enough players on the pitch to beat Bournemouth.
Nothing more complicated than that.

[ayrshireclaret83]

Ryan Christie from Celtic would be nice

[Darthlaw]

StTeds, it's pointless putting forward a discussion point with someone who is judging the total merits of a club based upon league position. Worse still, someone so closed minded as they are unwilling to consider anything outside the current status quo of the club, viewing any alternative view as an attack on the club.

Better yet in a post with the most give away title (Hypothetical), Dyched is incapable of seeing that a football club is made of many elements which, in turn, can be judged as successful or not i.e. standard of coach, standard of recruitment, standard of financial operation, etc.

Is it obvious that our club is where it is due to Sean Dyche - Yes
Is it obvious that Brentfords recruitment is far superior to that of Burnley FC in the last few years (think Benrahma v Stephens, Gibson v Watkins, etc)- again Yes.

Therefore is it conceivable that in a HYPOTHETICAL situation, the culmination of the two would yield fantastic results - Make up your own mind.

That is unless you think that because Brentford aren't in the PL, they are clearly inferior to BFC in every aspect and should be derided carte blanche.

The only other conclusion which can be drawn is Dyched is clearly Mike Rigg.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Difficult to compare the two accurately tbh.

Brentfords is all about buy cheap, sell high and as a minimum stay in the championship.

Ours got us out of the championship 3 times now and our aim as a minimum is to stay in the PL.

Would Brentfords system be as good in the PL under a better manager?
Honestly don't know.
Would their system work for Dyche?
We may find out with something similar if our new set up isn't restricted to younger players.

I do think we maybe need to rotate the players more often, but that's been a common complaint about Dyche and loyalty..

[Norfolk Claret]

Dan James
Harry Wilson
Lewis Cook
Oli Burke

If Kenny, Knight and the lad from Stoke are available in the summer- Dyches previous targets?

[Darthlaw]

"Brentfords is all about buy cheap, sell high and as a minimum stay in the championship."

It's about adapting and improving, Sid. I would say ours should be exactly the same apart from staying in the PL.

Is our approach the same as 2008/09 now? Lets be honest, we bet the ranch then and were 90 minutes from being in serious sh*t, had we lost the playoff final.

Was our approach changed when Dyche got us promoted the first time? Essentially we were expected to be relegation fodder before he polished the turd to get us up.

Again, on our second promotion under him we changed tack again, investing good money in the likes of Gray to get us back.

We either continue along our current recruitment method spaffing money on the likes of Hendrick, Gibson, Vydra and Stephens for little return or given we need to increase revenue to survive ( as you've pointed out before) we look at other methods, which can return adequate profits to both pay the debts and improve the squad.

One thing is for certain, continue along the recent trajectory of recruitment and we wont be in the PL for much longer.

[Dyched]

Brilliant.

We need to do it the Brentford way to remain in the Premier League because our way leads to relegation.

What complete and utter nonsense. Just absolute nonsense.

[Darthlaw]

Defo Mike Rigg then. Although reading the post, I do get a picture of Colonel Hardy from the Jungle book

[GodIsADeeJay81]

"Brentfords is all about buy cheap, sell high and as a minimum stay in the championship."

It's about adapting and improving, Sid. I would say ours should be exactly the same apart from staying in the PL.

Is our approach the same as 2008/09 now? Lets be honest, we bet the ranch then and were 90 minutes from being in serious sh*t, had we lost the playoff final.

Was our approach changed when Dyche got us promoted the first time? Essentially we were expected to be relegation fodder before he polished the turd to get us up.

Again, on our second promotion under him we changed tack again, investing good money in the likes of Gray to get us back.

We either continue along our current recruitment method spaffing money on the likes of Hendrick, Gibson, Vydra and Stephens for little return or given we need to increase revenue to survive ( as you've pointed out before) we look at other methods, which can return adequate profits to both pay the debts and improve the squad.

One thing is for certain, continue along the recent trajectory of recruitment and we wont be in the PL for much longer.

In all fairness, we got a great return on Hendrick.
First choice for his time here, you could say we miss his work rate and versatility now.... But i know that will upset people so let's pretend I didn't say it

Vydra can play out wide in an attacking role, I've seen him do that before, but he doesn't get that chance here.

We do need to find a middle ground between how we are now and how Brentford do it.

[Dyched]

Okay, you win. Let’s follow another clubs recruitment strategy to allow us to remain in the Premier League. A club that hasn’t played in the top flight of English football since 1947. Brilliant.

[Darthlaw]

Recruitment team A - £11m loss in the last two seasons.

Recruitment team B - £50m profit in the last two seasons.

Dyched - Recruitment team A is better because the first team coach has the club in a higher division.

it's pointless putting forward a discussion point with someone who is judging the total merits of a club based upon league position.

[Dyched]

That’s a quite interesting quote you’ve dug there. A couple of posts back you mention we’ll be relegated with our recruitment.

I think league position is quite an important area to merit a club on, don’t you?

If it was all about profit we may as well pack it in and turn the Turf into a supermarket.

[Dyched]

Recruitment team A - £11m loss in the last two seasons.

Recruitment team B - £50m profit in the last two seasons.

Dyched - Recruitment team A is better because the first team coach has the club in a higher division.

Recruitment team A.

Top 10 finish in the Premier League.
On course to remain in the Premier League for a 7th straight season.

Recruitment team B

3rd in the Championship. Beaten at Wembley.
Still in the Championship, fighting for promotion.

[Rileybobs]

Recruitment team A - £11m loss in the last two seasons.

Recruitment team B - £50m profit in the last two seasons.

Dyched - Recruitment team A is better because the first team coach has the club in a higher division.

The obvious flaw in your argument being the amount of profit the club has generated directly through the performances of its players.

[Darthlaw]

The obvious flaw in your argument being the amount of profit the club has generated directly through the performances of its players.

Granted. The attainment of PL status will give a level of profit but now we have debts and interest to pay, we need to generate more.

The realism is that we will always be a selling club but those players must perform in the interim and (in the main) appreciate in value. This is even more critical with the debt and repayments now leveraged against the club.

If we have £7m interest to pay each year and do not make money on player sales we will be forced to take the money from our PL bonus. Essentially our £20-30m profit each year now becomes £10m less if you take into account other operating costs. Thats before any capital is repaid on the debt.

This summer it will be Tarks, possibly even Dwight who will flush out our transfer coffers but after that, where is our next cash injection for recruitment coming from? We're going to lose out on Gibson, we'll make a loss on Vyds and will certainly lose out on the likes of Stephens others will also be leaving on a free.

Thats the key behind the Brentford method of RECRUITMENT (for the love of god please separate this from the remainder of the club) which we need to adapt for the PL. Buy cheap, sell high and increase revenue.

Otherwise we're looking at signings like Stephens for the foreseeable, which as I've already pointed out will see us heading one way.

[DomBFC1882]

It's only a matter of time til Brentford get to the Premier league.

Superbly run football club and I for one pray they get promoted this season

[CnBtruntru]

I’d trim the squad:

Tarks out 25m

Barnes out 1m - Dunne 500k - J Rod - free

I’d have Knight in 7m plus add ons

Bennetts and Dozzell in at 18m plus add ons

Burke in at 5m

Armstrong in at 15m plus add ons

Sawyers in at 10m plus add ons

I’d bring in Cairney for 3m if Fulham go down

I’d try and get Garner and Laird from United on two year loan deals.

I’d try in the free market for: Daniel Sturridge, and Ravel Morrison.

If Dyche goes, I am going for Joey and Duff together.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Are Brentford superbly ran?

Without those player sales, they'd be back in league one, and drowning in debt.
Their model is working for them and should be commended but they've got a lot of debt even with player sales, I think some of that is stadium related though.

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 21090?s=19

[Darthlaw]

Just to add:
Squad is currently 27 strong
Out of contract in the summer are Brady, Bardsley, Dunne, Thomas, Glennon and Mumbongo. That puts us at 21.
Gibson won't play for us again and Tarks (at least) will leave in the summer leaving 19 to pick from.

2021/22 squad currently looks like this:

Pope, BPF, Norris

Taylor, Mee, Lowton, Pieters, Long

JBG, McNeil (Potential to leave), Cork, Westwood, Brownhill, Stephens, Benson

Wood, Barnes, J-Rod, Vyds (Also likely to leave)

That must even have Dyched slightly concerned.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

If McNeil left we'd get a very good wedge for him, first team regular with 3yrs left on his contract.

Potentially £8 million for Gibson.

Coupled with money for Tarks and that's a sizeable transfer kitty.

[Darthlaw]

Are Brentford superbly ran?

Without those player sales, they'd be back in league one, and drowning in debt.
Their model is working for them and should be commended but they've got a lot of debt even with player sales, I think some of that is stadium related though.

Worth considering now that Burnley are now exactly in that boat, apart from we don't have the pedigree for player sales, not since 2017 with the sale of Gray and Keane.

EDIT - With all the will in the world, Sid, Gibson is never a £8m defender with one year left on his contract and a perceived bad attitude.

Plus, if we did sell McNeil, where is our next saleable asset? We'd need to keep that money potentially for payment of the debts for the foreseeable.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Worth considering now that Burnley are now exactly in that boat, apart from we don't have the pedigree for player sales, not since 2017 with the sale of Gray and Keane.

Our wage bill doesn't exceed our income, theirs does and our income is massive in comparison with a greater scope for growth compared to theirs.

Yes we need to improve our buying a selling by a great deal, but we were ran far more sensibly financially prior to the sale of the club and even that debt is going to more manageable than theirs.

Re Gibson, Norwich are committed to buying for £8million if they get promoted I'm sure I've read on here.

[Darthlaw]

Our wage bill doesn't exceed our income, theirs does and our income is massive in comparison with a greater scope for growth compared to theirs.

Whilst we're in the PL, of course. If we drop out, our wage bill (and debt repayments) will easily dwarf income.

The challenge of replacing Tarks will be tough enough to maintain that status. Thats before you consider that any funds generated from his sale will need to fund:

A loan payment to our debtors
Tarks replacement
Replacements for Brady, Bardsley, Dunne
Any incremental improvements to the squad.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Whilst we're in the PL, of course. If we drop out, our wage bill (and debt repayments) will easily dwarf income.

The challenge of replacing Tarks will be tough enough to maintain that status. Thats before you consider that any funds generated from his sale will need to fund:

A loan payment to our debtors
Tarks replacement
Replacements for Brady, Bardsley, Dunne
Any incremental improvements to the squad.

We have relegation clauses in our players contracts last I heard.

We can still pick up cheap players, we've done it before and will do again.

Still get parachute payments for a couple of years.

[Darthlaw]

We have relegation clauses in our players contracts last I heard.

We can still pick up cheap players, we've done it before and will do again.

Still get parachute payments for a couple of years.

Hopefully they're better clauses than when we were relegated under Laws. We'd run out of money within 18 months then.

Hopefully we can pick up cheap players better than we have been doing. Our recent form in Stephens, Crouch, Walters and arguably Pieters(jury's out) suggests we need to improve quickly. In fact Bardsley is the last 'cheap' player I can think of who turned out well and Pope before that but you're going back 5 years.

I know you're aware of how leveraged we are on PL payments now, Sid, from the revenue conversations on other threads.

[taffy]

Tarks £30 mil
Gibson £8 mil
Vydra free
Bardsley free
Dunne free
And if dyche is allowed to spend the funds
Worrall £8 mil
Collins £10 mil
Jed Wallace £5 mil
Knight £8 mil
Lundstrum free
Assombolonga free
Hypothetical but I would be happy with that

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Hopefully they're better clauses than when we were relegated under Laws. We'd run out of money within 18 months then.

Hopefully we can pick up cheap players better than we have been doing. Our recent form in Stephens, Crouch, Walters and arguably Pieters(jury's out) suggests we need to improve quickly. In fact Bardsley is the last 'cheap' player I can think of who turned out well and Pope before that but you're going back 5 years.

I know you're aware of how leveraged we are on PL payments now, Sid, from the revenue conversations on other threads.

I didn't mind the Crouch transfer as it allowed Vokes to leave and it would appear we did Stoke over on that one

Walters - we were just genuinely unlucky when you look at his previous injury record which was nominal.

I think Pieters has been excellent for us.

[Darthlaw]

So next season (with ages) we're looking like:
Pope (29)

Lowton (32) Long (30) Mee (31) Taylor (27)

JBG (30) Cork (32) Westwood (31) McNeil (21)

Wood (29) Barnes (31)

And you've essentially got £20m (at best) to improve it, after Brentford have taken their slice of the Tarks money and the Gibson money pays off the interest on the Dell loan.

Personally, given the last four windows, that scares me to death.

Ironically, given Brentford's current league position, we could actually be fishing from the same pond too.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

So next season (with ages) we're looking like:
Pope (29)

Lowton (32) Long (30) Mee (31) Taylor (27)

JBG (30) Cork (32) Westwood (31) McNeil (21)

Wood (29) Barnes (31)

And you've essentially got £20m (at best) to improve it, after Brentford have taken their slice of the Tarks money and the Gibson money pays off the interest on the Dell loan.

Personally, given the last four windows, that scares me to death.

Ironically, given Brentford's current league position, we could actually be fishing from the same pond too.

We'd be a bigger pull than Brentford, especially if Dyche was still here

[SGr]

Take me back to 2018 when we were in the best cash position in the club’s history and people were excited about potentially signing dross like Sam Clucas. Simpler times.

[StTedsOB]

Brentford go top with 3-1 win away at Reading.
Toney scored one and made the other two.

Toney would have been a nice and very cheap signing for us - hypothetically of course !

[Chester Perry]

Brentford go top with 3-1 win away at Reading.
Toney scored one and made the other two.

Toney would have been a nice and very cheap signing for us - hypothetically of course !

Weren't we quoted £13m for Toney

Brentford paid £5m upfront with a large sell on clause, Peterborough point blank refused a similar deal to us, partly because they new we would have to work on his development, he would not be an automatic starter like he has been in the championship and therefore likely to be sold on quicker, and I suspect partly as a result of the Premier League being awkward on the bailout demands of the EFL - it was noticeable that Premier League clubs were paying highly for EFL players in the main, though not quite for all

[superdimitri]

Weren't we quoted £13m for Toney

Brentford paid £5m upfront with a large sell on clause, Peterborough point blank refused a similar deal to us, partly because they new we would have to work on his development, he would not be an automatic starter like he has been in the championship and therefore likely to be sold on quicker, and I suspect partly as a result of the Premier League being awkward on the bailout demands of the EFL - it was noticeable that Premier League clubs were paying highly for EFL players in the main, though not quite for all

I understand what you're saying but usually if a player is good though at 20yr old they should be able to play in the premier league. You're taking as if Toney is 19 or 20 when he's 24.

Different players develop at different rates of course, but you can't always assume he wouldn't have been good enough. Sometimes it's a matter of taking your chance and stepping up. Mcneil did it, so there's no reason why Toney couldn't have.

This is the entire point in scouting and recruitment. It's about finding these players at a decent age and getting the deal done. We gave been lacklustre recently with both.

The only reason we got snubbed and they didn't is because they know we have more money to spend so they demand more.. that and the fact we penny pinch so lose out on players because we refuse to meet other clubs valuations.

Like it or not we have to pay more than other teams do because we're in the premier league, if we don't then someone else will get there first..

Of course Brentfords policy works differently because they can afford to gamble more but that doesn't mean every player that goes there improves. They might be good enough already.

[StTedsOB]

Weren't we quoted £13m for Toney

Brentford paid £5m upfront with a large sell on clause, Peterborough point blank refused a similar deal to us, partly because they new we would have to work on his development, he would not be an automatic starter like he has been in the championship and therefore likely to be sold on quicker, and I suspect partly as a result of the Premier League being awkward on the bailout demands of the EFL - it was noticeable that Premier League clubs were paying highly for EFL players in the main, though not quite for all

According to Peterborough chairman who spoke recently about the Toney the deal had been done and agreed with Brentford 7 weeks before any other club expressed an interest. I can’t find any reference to Burnley being an interested party and the chairman said that a “big Scottish club” showed late interest but he had already agreed a deal with Brentford. The numbers widely reported were £5m fee with a potential another £5m of add ons.
Newcastle had a “massive” sell on fee in this deal as they sold him to Peterborough very cheaply.

I don’t know what the sell on fee Peterborough have now - or whether there is one at all. I can’t see any record of the fee you say we are quoted above or even us expressing an interest.

The Chairman of Peterborough said they did well to get such a price for Toney in the middle of a pandemic but it looks like a significant amount of that fee went to Newcastle.

But whatever way you look at it Brentford have got themselves a player for a very good price who has done very well.

[KRBFC]

Brilliant.

We need to do it the Brentford way to remain in the Premier League because our way leads to relegation.

What complete and utter nonsense. Just absolute nonsense.

Brentford can pass a football

[Dyched]

Brentford can pass a football

Burnley can achieve promotion to and stay in the Premier League. Please tell me what Brentford have done over the past 7 years? Apart from making a few quid (We’ve made more btw) and play pretty football?

[StTedsOB]

Burnley can achieve promotion to and stay in the Premier League. Please tell me what Brentford have done over the past 7 years? Apart from making a few quid (We’ve made more btw) and play pretty football?

You keep on making this a direct comparison to Burnley for some reason.

As for what Brentford have done in the last 7 years ? - here you go :

Enjoyed their most successful period since the 1930s
Reached the play offs twice
More than cemented their place in the championship after decades in the lower leagues
Made more profit on transfer sales than the rest of their history put together
Built a brand new stadium (looks better than ours btw)
Played good football that their fans have enjoyed

Whatever way you look at it that is not bad going in 7 years.
And I’m fully aware that Burnley over the same 7 year period have also broken many of our records and also enjoyed a very successful period.

So that’s Burnley and Brentford both doing really well....but going into that 7 year period with very different recent and long term histories. Not really sure what the issue is here.

[Dyched]

You keep on making this a direct comparison to Burnley for some reason.

As for what Brentford have done in the last 7 years ? - here you go :

Enjoyed their most successful period since the 1930s
Reached the play offs twice
More than cemented their place in the championship after decades in the lower leagues
Made more profit on transfer sales than the rest of their history put together
Built a brand new stadium (looks better than ours btw)
Played good football that their fans have enjoyed

Whatever way you look at it that is not bad going in 7 years.
And I’m fully aware that Burnley over the same 7 year period have also broken many of our records and also enjoyed a very successful period.

So that’s Burnley and Brentford both doing really well....but going into that 7 year period with very different recent and long term histories. Not really sure what the issue is here.

Of course I’m gonna make a direct comparison between Burnley and Brentford when a couple of clowns come along and try and tell me how we should be doing what they do. They have in no way whatsoever done better than us in the transfer market over the past 7 years.

How many players have they actually sold that are Premier League regulars over a sustained period? 1. James Tarkowski.

Now look at ours. Trippier, Ings, Keane then there’s Heaton. Players we’ve sold on, players that have all played for England. 3 of those playing in very good sides. There’s also all the other signings that have actually achieved things that Brentford haven’t. Play offs twice? Nice, lost twice as well. We’ve had automatic promotion twice, Champions once. 2 top 10 Premier League finishes.

But yeah, we’ll give up everything and finish in the Top 10 of the Championship year after year selling players making profits that way. Let’s forget about the £4/500m we’ve earned (Directly from our signings btw) for getting to and staying in the Premier League.

[StTedsOB]

Of course I’m gonna make a direct comparison between Burnley and Brentford when a couple of clowns come along and try and tell me how we should be doing what they do. They have in no way whatsoever done better than us in the transfer market over the past 7 years.

How many players have they actually sold that are Premier League regulars over a sustained period? 1. James Tarkowski.

Now look at ours. Trippier, Ings, Keane then there’s Heaton. Players we’ve sold on, players that have all played for England. 3 of those playing in very good sides. There’s also all the other signings that have actually achieved things that Brentford haven’t. Play offs twice? Nice, lost twice as well. We’ve had automatic promotion twice, Champions once. 2 top 10 Premier League finishes.

But yeah, we’ll give up everything and finish in the Top 10 of the Championship year after year selling players making profits that way. Let’s forget about the £4/500m we’ve earned (Directly from our signings btw) for getting to and staying in the Premier League.

You asked what Brentford have achieved in the last 7 years - I answered it.
As for Burnley making more profit on their player sales than Brentford in the last 7 years - are you sure about that ? I’m pretty sure you are incorrect.

The points you keep on making about what the players have gone on to do are just a bit embarrassing. They have nothing to do with profit on players as you’ve been told repeatedly on this thread. I’ll try and simplify it further for you though - if we sold Dale Stephens now to Barcelona for £100m we’d have made about £99m profit and it would have been a very successful piece of business. The fact that Stephens would probably then get loaned out to play for Benidorm reserve team for the rest of his career is completely irrelevant to the profit we would have made on him.

In relation to your other points yep Burnley have done brilliant. I said that already and nobody at all is disagreeing with you so really not sure why you keep on making points which support something nobody is disputing !!