Pope out of England squad

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:03 pm

Replaced by Ramsdale in the latest England squad

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:07 pm

Nick not had the best start to a season, but that's never stopped Pickford from being selected......
It might be good for us though, if it makes him work harder to get his place back.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:07 pm

Johnstone, Pickford & Ramsdale are the three selected

Culmclaret · Post by **Culmclaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:07 pm

On form difficult to argue with his omission, although it doesn’t seem to matter what form Pickford is in…

Blatherwickstattoo · Post by **Blatherwickstattoo** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:08 pm

Can’t argue with that at all

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:10 pm

I know Pope’s form has been average this season but he’s vastly superior to any keeper in the Championship and in a different class to Ramsdale

Obviously Pickford can’t be dropped because Southgate is his Auntie or something. I know he’s never let England down but neither has Pope. Where’s your loyalty now Gareth?

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:11 pm

Ollie Watkins selected and Mason Greenwood left out.

Wonder how long Greenwood is to be punished for being sent home

kazza · Post by **kazza** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:12 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:11 pm
Ollie Watkins selected and Mason Greenwood left out.

Wonder how long Greenwood is to be punished for being sent home

Yeah that is strange. I'd have Greenwood in my team every day over Watkins.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:25 pm

Southgate out !

MT03ALG · Post by **MT03ALG** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:32 pm

Ramsdale is at Arsenal
Pope is at Burnley
Easy for Southgate

MT03ALG · Post by **MT03ALG** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:34 pm

Southgate argues against himself:
Bellingham left out because he has had hard games
Tomori included because he has had hard games

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:35 pm

MT03ALG wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:32 pm
Ramsdale is at Arsenal
Pope is at Burnley
Easy for Southgate

I doubt it has anything to do with that. Henderson plays for Man Utd, not included despite having been a squad member recently

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:41 pm

MT03ALG wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:32 pm
Ramsdale is at Arsenal
Pope is at Burnley
Easy for Southgate

Where is Sam Johnston playing now?

I don’t think Nick has much of an argument against this it has been clear for a while his kicking up to scratch for how England want to play/ Southgate and that he would be the 1 replaced in the squad when it came to it. Also he hasn’t started the season well and the last time he played for England it could be argued he gave a goal away by a poor pass. Not necessarily my opinion I think both him and Stones were equally culpable but hey.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:44 pm

Understandable given Pope's relatively poor form this season but also disgraceful that Nick is afforded precisely zero of the loyalty that was showered relentlessly on Jordy Pitchfork.

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:45 pm

It's a good chance now for Nick to prove the tosser wrong....but then it might still not be enough.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:47 pm

Aclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:45 pm
It's a good chance now for Nick to prove the tosser wrong....but then it might still not be enough.

I don't expect Nick to make another England squad, TBH.
Southgate already talking up Ramsdale's ability to play out from the back

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:49 pm

There is an awful lot made about Southgate wanting his keeper to be able to play clever passes out and use his feet well to enable us to keep possession and create more chances.

Yet when the big moment came we had just over 30% possession and 2 shots on target in 120 minutes (1 of which came in the 2nd minute)

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm

He's not replacing Pickford any time soon, so there's no benefit to him or us meeting up with the squad. Travelling all over etc..

Let him get back to his best at Burnley and resting when he can.

MT03ALG · Post by **MT03ALG** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm

JarrowClaret wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:41 pm
Where is Sam Johnston playing now?

I don’t think Nick has much of an argument against this it has been clear for a while his kicking up to scratch for how England want to play/ Southgate and that he would be the 1 replaced in the squad when it came to it. Also he hasn’t started the season well and the last time he played for England it could be argued he gave a goal away by a poor pass. Not necessarily my opinion I think both him and Stones were equally culpable but hey.

Pope was replaced by Ramsdale not Johnstone

MT03ALG · Post by **MT03ALG** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:55 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:35 pm
I doubt it has anything to do with that. Henderson plays for Man Utd, not included despite having been a squad member recently

Whether Henderson actually 'plays' for Man Utd is debatable....

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:55 pm

Not a fan of Southgate at all. Look at Ramsdale and Arsenal messing about at the back against us - nearly cost them. As it will England at some point. I tend to believe keepers are there to stop goals.

Saying that though, Nick has been poor this season, Vardy’s winner was a rash decision, there have been other mistakes too. His kicking is even worse than usual.

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:57 pm

Based upon current performances I would have to agree but in general I would say Pope is a better keeper. A lot these days does count on ability to play out but for me keeping the ball out of the net and dominating the area is more important.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:58 pm

No bad thing. Pope has been off the boil this season, and hopefully this will give him the incentive to knuckle down and get things sorted. I do think, when all fit and playing well, that Pope is still Southgate's number 2. Any injury to Pickford and he has a real chance in Qatar

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:58 pm

Ramsdale has really improved, and he can play with his feet

Not surprised, though I'd hope Southgate has given Nick a call and explained why

Popes kicking and distribution and comfort on the ball has to improve if he's going to get selected for England

And regarding Pickford, his form for England appears to be completely separate from anything he does at Everton, which is a hell of good trait to have!

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:58 pm

I don't think there can be any argument over Ramsdale getting in before Pope, it will be a further dent to his confidence. He has to react in the best way possible, I would suggest keeping 10 clean sheets on the bounce which includes 4 world class saves per game. Then, when Southgate selects him he tells him to "f^% off"

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:02 pm

Don't worry about it. It's all to do with age and the system he wants to play.

Andreshotboots · Post by **Andreshotboots** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:30 pm

No Surprise. Pope has looked low on confidence to me this season.

You could argue both goals at Leicester were down to him and he's been nowhere near as assured as he usually is.

As mentioned above, unless there are significant injuries, I think Pope's England career is over, it felt to me like he was only ever warming a seat for another keeper and that Southgate would ditch him at the earliest opportunity.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:43 pm

Southgate's explains: ""Nick is still I think coming back from the injury he had a little bit and I think Aaron is just in a better vein of form at the moment. From Aaron’s perspective I think the move to a club with high expectation, a style of play where he is asked to build with his feet from the back which he is coping with really well. He has adapted well to that move and his performances this season have been full of confidence."

Rochdale Cowboy · Post by **Rochdale Cowboy** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:50 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm
He's not replacing Pickford any time soon, so there's no benefit to him or us meeting up with the squad. Travelling all over etc..

Let him get back to his best at Burnley and resting when he can.

I would have thought training with world class players would be beneficial for him and us?

williamjblazkowicz · Post by **williamjblazkowicz** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:50 pm

I'm not sure how much Pickford's Everton form matters. He's typically done very well for England.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:51 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:43 pm
Southgate's explains: ""Nick is still I think coming back from the injury he had a little bit and I think Aaron is just in a better vein of form at the moment. From Aaron’s perspective I think the move to a club with high expectation, a style of play where he is asked to build with his feet from the back which he is coping with really well. He has adapted well to that move and his performances this season have been full of confidence."

Bullshit from Southgate...he couldn't wait to get Pope out of the squad any excuse eh?...Ramsdale isn't fit to lace Pope's boots.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:52 pm

Writing was on the wall for Pope the moment Sam Johnstone played the full 90 mins v Andorra, that was before Ramsdale was even given a go at Arsenal.

I dont think it helped Pope the fact he withdrew from the Euro squad after asking the possibility of him getting minutes, once the answer was very slim, he opted to get his operation done to be fit for the new season, I doubt Gary will have liked that, hense the Andorra game drop ( which was basically a England B team game ) and now from the full squad

To be honest I'm not too bothered about him joining up with the squad to be a glorified dummy for the England strikers shooting practice, which in essence all a 3rd choice does, get balls whacked at them.

Let's keep him fit for us, that's the most important thing.

Hopefully he uses this as a springboard to rediscover his form for Burnley and to show Gary up for the clueless Charlatan he is.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:55 pm

With Southgate’s reference for youth Nick might never see an England squad again.
I wouldn’t be surprised if his current form isn’t linked to the disappointed of missing the Euros.
I’m praying he gets back to his very best soon or we are in trouble.

blake's wand · Post by **blake's wand** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:00 pm

Huge fan of Pope, but not in his best form at the moment. Currently got the 2nd worst xG conceded vs. actual goals conceded according to this https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv ... ague-Stats

He's conceded 11 but would be expected to only concede 8.7 meaning he has a -2.3 record. He's usually at the top of these charts.

He'll come good again for sure

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:15 pm

Cirrus_Minor wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:57 pm
Based upon current performances I would have to agree but in general I would say Pope is a better keeper. A lot these days does count on ability to play out but for me keeping the ball out of the net and dominating the area is more important.

Pope hasn't been keeping the ball out of the net, Ramsdale has 3 or 4 clean sheets in a row.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:18 pm

Not sure if it’s a physical or psychological but Pope’s form currently does not demand his inclusion at the moment. I’m a big believer in class over form, he’ll soon be back to his best and that will be impossible to ignore going forwards.

Sheedyclaret · Post by **Sheedyclaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:19 pm

Rightly so he's been well off it so far

alboclaret · Post by **alboclaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:23 pm

Thought ramsdale was excellent at turf.
Pope can't kick, can't use his feet but for saves. So the rest of his game has to be immaculate and its not been so far this season.

Easy decision.

Grumps · Post by **Grumps** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:41 pm

I've been critical of him this season, so I agree with the decision. At best he'd have been 3rd choice, so it's better to stay at Burnley.

ewanrob · Post by **ewanrob** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:44 pm

Agree with most comments, hes not showing anything right now to deserve a place in the squad.
All goalies have bad periods, he will come good...but the kicking needs a good looking at.

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:57 pm

Aclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:45 pm
It's a good chance now for Nick to prove the tosser wrong....but then it might still not be enough.

it would be for us though if he did!

I feared he was out of the Norwich game when I first read the post!

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:57 pm

Nick is the best at coming out for crosses than all the other 3 but as we know the media pick Southgate's team's so no real surprise in this selection.

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:10 pm

Said at end of last season if an offer came in for silly money we should accept and use it to get Jonhstone. Really rate him and Pope's form not ben great for a while now.

Not sure if it is lack of competition or just settling to his level after some inspired performances early in his time for us or if there is more to his drop but would be tempted to give a fit Hennessey a chance if Pope doesn't improve soon.

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:24 pm

MT03ALG wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:51 pm
Pope was replaced by Ramsdale not Johnstone

Yes but Johnstone is still in the squad I genuinely don’t know where Johnstone is right now ( can’t be arsed Googling) is it still WBA? Anyway if it was about Club you would think he would be removed as well or instead. It has nothing to do with the Club well maybe it is to do with how we play but is based on Southgate opinion on Pope right or wrong, wrong in my opinion but hey.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:25 pm

I see the old " he's in form for his club" line has been trotted out again.

However when Pope was immense and Pickford couldn't catch a cold, it was all about remaining loyal form is temporary and "all in it together" mentality

I'm short Southgate is a clueless buffoon

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:26 pm

A great shame, however, the England manager has made it clear that he likes young boys and that playing around at the back is most important.

That leaves our Nick - statistically, usually the best goalkeeper - out in the cold, while Southgate reigns.

Pity.

However, I am pleased that Burnley has the best keeper.

kazza · Post by **kazza** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:36 pm

Bellingham out is a thinker. He looked impressive in his recent appearances.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:39 pm

World cup semi-final 2018

European finalists 2020

One thing southgate is not, is a clueless buffoon

He's made a choice, and based on form and style, its very hard to argue with it.

Essentially England play a certain way, and we play a different way, and that is why our two best players don't get in the England team

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:39 pm

I'm convinced that NP is either carrying an injury or struggling to fully recover from his injury last season.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:45 pm

Never fancied Ramsdale but I have to say he's looked pretty good at Arsenal this season - number one choice now.