How long before Dyche comes under real pressure

[boatshed bill]

We needed a player for the bench for 6 mths who was content to do that, enter Crouch for no transfer fee.

Reid - maybe he wasn't ready to start coaching then or we didn't have a spot for him but he was here for a year, that's it.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know.
And no professional footballer should be content to sit on the bench, this is so wrong.

[Elizabeth]

Loyalty for me is not just about Barnes and for that matter Lennon who I’d also rather not see playing, even from the sub’s bench. I also don’t understand Dyche’s reasons there.
The value of Dyche letting players get through a run of poor form is more what I’m referring to and at the moment this must be reaching a limit and I’m interested to see how Dyche reacts over the forthcoming fixtures. I’m not just thinking of Wood.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

You're not telling me anything I don't already know.
And no professional footballer should be content to sit on the bench, this is so wrong.

Crouch was intending to retire at the end of that season, we just needed him for 6 mths.
He didn't cause any aggro etc.

We got a shed load of money for Vokes in return.

Good deal all round

[boatshed bill]

Crouch was intending to retire at the end of that season, we just needed him for 6 mths.
He didn't cause any aggro etc.

We got a shed load of money for Vokes in return.

Good deal all round

You are entitled to that opinion, obviously, but unless Stoke were forcing it as part of the deal for Vokes I can see no sense in it from a footballing point of view.
Actually I read somewhere that Crouch was less than happy with the way he was used.

[Jakubclaret]

I think what some people don't understand regarding offloading Sam is that crouch was part of the deal, stoke weren't prepared to accept it any other way the 2 things had to happen together, that was my understanding at the time & dyche wanted crouch so everything made sense.

[boatshed bill]

I think what some people don't understand regarding offloading Sam is that crouch was part of the deal, stoke weren't prepared to accept it any other way the 2 things had to happen together, that was my understanding at the time & dyche wanted crouch so everything made sense.

Hang on: either Stoke forced it or Dyche wanted it, which?

[Jakubclaret]

Hang on: either Stoke forced it or Dyche wanted it, which?

Stoke wanted it & dyche was keen, it is possible for both of them of things it doesn't have to be 1 or the other.

[boatshed bill]

Stoke wanted it & dyche was keen, it is possible for both of them of things it doesn't have to be 1 or the other.

Can you explain why Dyche was so keen?

[Jakubclaret]

Can you explain why Dyche was so keen?

You'd have to ask him, I'm guessing for PC experience & more of an additional aerial threat for set pieces, it enabled us to offload a player who was no longer needed in the process. I seriously don't think 1 would have happened without the other taking place.

[KRBFC]

Walters - injury

Crouch - great deal, for free and we got shot of Vokes for millions.

Reid - didn't do much but it's been explained time and again Dyche values certain people because they help keep the dressing room Stable.

All you're doing is showing how little you know, or understand with that rant.

Walters was shite, injured or not.
Crouch a great deal? he offered a great deal of nothing an was paid handsomely for it.
Reid again, atrocious player and stole a living here.

I'm a football expert, I know good players when I see them and bad ones too. Being content with a squad full of overpaid shite is the reason we are where we are, instead of Walters signings, younger players should've been brought in who would hopefully now be replacing JBG.

[KRBFC]

Crouch was intending to retire at the end of that season, we just needed him for 6 mths.
He didn't cause any aggro etc.

We got a shed load of money for Vokes in return.

Good deal all round

They were two separate deals, it wasn't a swap deal.

Shows how little you know.....

[Jakubclaret]

They were two separate deals, it wasn't a swap deal.

Shows how little you know.....

Screenshot_20211029-010514.png (389.35 KiB) Viewed 3906 times

Think wiki must have made a mistake then.

[fidelcastro]

Screenshot_20211029-010514.png

Think wiki must have made a mistake then.

Or did the self proclaimed football expert make a mistake?

Oh dear.

[BurnleyFC]

Didn’t Crouch spend most of his time on the sidelines with us because he was unfit after an appendix operation?

He was an excellent player in his time but it obviously didn’t work out with us.

[Les Lawrence]

Think he will be under real pressure if Brentford score in the first 10 minutes on Saturday.

[Caballo]

I'm a football expert.

That's some conceited sh1t, right there.

[MACCA]

Think he will be under real pressure if Brentford score in the first 10 minutes on Saturday

That bit wasn't needed, was a waste of ink and paper

[GodIsADeeJay81]

They were two separate deals, it wasn't a swap deal.

Shows how little you know.....

Anytime you're ready, please point out where I've stated it was a swap deal.
I haven't, because I'm not sure it was, I just know we did better out of that sale of Vokes and signing of Crouch than Stoke did.

Expert of football my arse

[Burnley Ace]

That's some conceited sh1t, right there.

But it has given me the first laugh of the day

[AlargeClaret]

Beat Brentford 2-0 and the board will be oozing with “ Barnes’s is like a fine wine” , “ Dwight is worth £50m” “ old is gold “ “ is Cornet better than Ronaldo” “ the food and drink on offer is excellent as is the service and prices “ etc etc

[John Johnson 1605]

Beat Brentford 2-0 and the board will be oozing with “ Barnes’s is like a fine wine” , “ Dwight is worth £50m” “ old is gold “ “ is Cornet better than Ronaldo” “ the food and drink on offer is excellent as is the service and prices “ etc etc

..........and you can now purchase a king size twix for the price of a standard one.

[Local cricketer]

Beat Brentford 2-0 and the board will be oozing with “ Barnes’s is like a fine wine” , “ Dwight is worth £50m” “ old is gold “ “ is Cornet better than Ronaldo” “ the food and drink on offer is excellent as is the service and prices “ etc etc

And nobody missed kick off

[RVclaret]

Beat Brentford 2-0 and the board will be oozing with “ Barnes’s is like a fine wine” , “ Dwight is worth £50m” “ old is gold “ “ is Cornet better than Ronaldo” “ the food and drink on offer is excellent as is the service and prices “ etc etc

[dsr]

Crouch a great deal? he offered a great deal of nothing an was paid handsomely for it.

The point of the Vokes-Crouch deal was that Vokes was our reserve centre forward and was not really good enough (not any more) but might do at a pinch. By getting rid of Vokes and signing Crouch we got a replacement reserve centre forward who was not really good enough but might do at a pinch.

It was a like for like swap that generated £8m.

During Crouch's time with us, Burnley W6 D6 L2. If you think that is unacceptable, fine. You won't find many to agree.

[Stayingup]

When mainly all you are allowed to sign is the like of Stevens and Lennon in this league then you deserve a hell of a lot of leeway. Dyche has done an incredible job.

[boatshed bill]

The point of the Vokes-Crouch deal was that Vokes was our reserve centre forward and was not really good enough (not any more) but might do at a pinch. By getting rid of Vokes and signing Crouch we got a replacement reserve centre forward who was not really good enough but might do at a pinch.

It was a like for like swap that generated £8m.

During Crouch's time with us, Burnley W6 D6 L2. If you think that is unacceptable, fine. You won't find many to agree.

He only appeared in 6 of those games.

[dsr]

He only appeared in 6 of those games.

Doesn't matter. The point is that with that record, the squad was clearly adequate for the time; and the only other real argument KRBFC can make is that we didn't need a reserve because Wood, Barnes, Rodriguez weren't going to get injured. Which would be an odd argument.

[boatshed bill]

Doesn't matter. The point is that with that record, the squad was clearly adequate for the time; and the only other real argument KRBFC can make is that we didn't need a reserve because Wood, Barnes, Rodriguez weren't going to get injured. Which would be an odd argument.

I think the general point he was making (you could see the Crouch debate as a small part of it) was that if you sign 30+ year old players specifically for the bench then you end up in trouble.

[Socrates]

Makes me really sad this thread.

Really sad.

What this man has done for the football club and the town …… and people now openly speculating about his job. And I know it’s just an Internet forum and ultimately meaningless …… but still.

Remind yourself where we were when he took over. Remind yourself of the players he’s signed. We’ve seen Burnley players playing for England, been in Europe, beaten United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs.

Has it been perfect? No.

Is it great right now? No.

But even if we go down this year we’ll be one of the biggest sides in the Championship and favourites to go back up - which is a damn site better than we were when he took over.

He’s not perfect - but no football manager is. He has delivered incredible success over a sustained period for us and that should not be forgotten.

You’re only ever one managerial change away from disaster. Look at Charlton when Curbishley left, Stoke had a good couple of years when Pullis left but then it all went horribly wrong. There is a litany of clubs our size or slightly bigger who forget who they are, get ideas way above their station, start talking about “the next level” ….. and three years later they are mid-table in the Championship.

Sure be ambitious. Sure want more for your club. But be realistic. And be bloody grateful for what Sean Dyche has delivered to us these last nine years.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Makes me really sad this thread.

Really sad.

What this man has done for the football club and the town …… and people now openly speculating about his job. And I know it’s just an Internet forum and ultimately meaningless …… but still.

Remind yourself where we were when he took over. Remind yourself of the players he’s signed. We’ve seen Burnley players playing for England, been in Europe, beaten United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs.

Has it been perfect? No.

Is it great right now? No.

But even if we go down this year we’ll be one of the biggest sides in the Championship and favourites to go back up - which is a damn site better than we were when he took over.

He’s not perfect - but no football manager is. He has delivered incredible success over a sustained period for us and that should not be forgotten.

You’re only ever one managerial change away from disaster. Look at Charlton when Curbishley left, Stoke had a good couple of years when Pullis left but then it all went horribly wrong. There is a litany of clubs our size or slightly bigger who forget who they are, get ideas way above their station, start talking about “the next level” ….. and three years later they are mid-table in the Championship.

Sure be ambitious. Sure want more for your club. But be realistic. And be bloody grateful for what Sean Dyche has delivered to us these last nine years.

Not sure this is the place for common sense and a touch of realism

[Jakubclaret]

I think the general point he was making (you could see the Crouch debate as a small part of it) was that if you sign 30+ year old players specifically for the bench then you end up in trouble.

I think some people are mistakenly viewing the crouch signing as some sort of a long term project, what was he 37/38 when he arrived? I think he'd already signalled his intentions to hang his boots up at the end of the season it was never going to be anything longer than a season maximum, it wasn't designed to be anything different than that.

[diamondpocket]

Like in most situations that aren't quite happening, it's always a combination of things and both Dyche & Garlick are to blame.
But don't forget the training centre was signed off under Garlick & what an unbelievable investment that was & will be for the future.
I'm sure now on the recruitment side things are changing after analysing recent failings including the type of players we've brought in the last few years - 30+ years of age squad fillers with no resale value. And Dyche's record can't really be questioned with where he has taken us.
It's a sticky period, mistakes have been made and we're starting to remedy them. Let's hope it isn't too late and we can survive this year by the skin of our teeth, and with some good January & next Summer signings we'll have had 3 windows and look to be a bit healthier. I'm sure this is the plan!

[Spijed]

Makes me really sad this thread.

Really sad.

What this man has done for the football club and the town …… and people now openly speculating about his job. And I know it’s just an Internet forum and ultimately meaningless …… but still.

Remind yourself where we were when he took over. Remind yourself of the players he’s signed. We’ve seen Burnley players playing for England, been in Europe, beaten United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs.

Has it been perfect? No.

Is it great right now? No.

But even if we go down this year we’ll be one of the biggest sides in the Championship and favourites to go back up - which is a damn site better than we were when he took over.

He’s not perfect - but no football manager is. He has delivered incredible success over a sustained period for us and that should not be forgotten.

You’re only ever one managerial change away from disaster. Look at Charlton when Curbishley left, Stoke had a good couple of years when Pullis left but then it all went horribly wrong. There is a litany of clubs our size or slightly bigger who forget who they are, get ideas way above their station, start talking about “the next level” ….. and three years later they are mid-table in the Championship.

Sure be ambitious. Sure want more for your club. But be realistic. And be bloody grateful for what Sean Dyche has delivered to us these last nine years.

Excellent post.

[Rombald]

Excellent post.

Absolutely.
It's such a shame that a handful of individuals on here cannot see that. Or just want to play mischief..I'm not sure what it is, but it is quite demoralising.

[Jakubclaret]

Things change rapidly in football, not so long ago going on to the Sheffield United forum Chris wilder was the best thing since sliced bread & held by many in a godlike status, when all said & done football is a results based business.

[Tribesmen]

Makes me really sad this thread.

Really sad.

What this man has done for the football club and the town …… and people now openly speculating about his job. And I know it’s just an Internet forum and ultimately meaningless …… but still.

Remind yourself where we were when he took over. Remind yourself of the players he’s signed. We’ve seen Burnley players playing for England, been in Europe, beaten United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs.

Has it been perfect? No.

Is it great right now? No.

But even if we go down this year we’ll be one of the biggest sides in the Championship and favourites to go back up - which is a damn site better than we were when he took over.

He’s not perfect - but no football manager is. He has delivered incredible success over a sustained period for us and that should not be forgotten.

You’re only ever one managerial change away from disaster. Look at Charlton when Curbishley left, Stoke had a good couple of years when Pullis left but then it all went horribly wrong. There is a litany of clubs our size or slightly bigger who forget who they are, get ideas way above their station, start talking about “the next level” ….. and three years later they are mid-table in the Championship.

Sure be ambitious. Sure want more for your club. But be realistic. And be bloody grateful for what Sean Dyche has delivered to us these last nine years.

Wow , super post i have to say

[boatshed bill]

Strange isn't it?
i've not seen one post saying Dyche out.
The original question was How long before he's under pressure? Of course he should be under pressure because our results in this calendar year are shocking, make no mistake about that.
We are in a results driven business and the results are poor, if the manager is not under pressure to improve on this there is something very wrong.

[brexit]

forum
Best described as a torrent of little children running around in a minefield (users), some armed with weapons (moderators), forums are the flagship of internet discussion, spam, and flame wars.
Forums are operated by moderators. Forum moderators are usually offended by the smallest imperfections (they are usually power freaks).

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=forum

[BurnleyFC]

Makes me really sad this thread.

Really sad.

What this man has done for the football club and the town …… and people now openly speculating about his job. And I know it’s just an Internet forum and ultimately meaningless …… but still.

Remind yourself where we were when he took over. Remind yourself of the players he’s signed. We’ve seen Burnley players playing for England, been in Europe, beaten United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs.

Has it been perfect? No.

Is it great right now? No.

But even if we go down this year we’ll be one of the biggest sides in the Championship and favourites to go back up - which is a damn site better than we were when he took over.

He’s not perfect - but no football manager is. He has delivered incredible success over a sustained period for us and that should not be forgotten.

You’re only ever one managerial change away from disaster. Look at Charlton when Curbishley left, Stoke had a good couple of years when Pullis left but then it all went horribly wrong. There is a litany of clubs our size or slightly bigger who forget who they are, get ideas way above their station, start talking about “the next level” ….. and three years later they are mid-table in the Championship.

Sure be ambitious. Sure want more for your club. But be realistic. And be bloody grateful for what Sean Dyche has delivered to us these last nine years.

What a brilliant post.

[Spijed]

Things change rapidly in football, not so long ago going on to the Sheffield United forum Chris wilder was the best thing since sliced bread & held by many in a godlike status, when all said & done football is a results based business.

But he was a one season wonder.

[Jakubclaret]

But he was a one season wonder.

He was more than that he was actually 1 of their own & started off lower than dyche from where he took them & left them higher.

[Socrates]

We are in a results driven business and the results are poor,

See ….. it’s stuff like this. It gets bandied about and people don’t really think about what it means.

Why is it a results driven business?

What does that even mean?

What is a result?

How long do you like at results over?


If it is a results driven business ….. and you judge purely on results ….. then surely at the end of the season only one team (the league winner) has been successful in each division. And that’s a nonsense.

We’re getting to a point now where we have three clubs backed by individuals with unimaginable wealth, two huge institutions in United and Liverpool, plus other massive clubs like Spurs and Arsenal. It doesn’t matter how rich you are, how much you pump in ….. only one side can win the league every year. It’s absolutely mental if you judge us on our results when we’re competing against that.

Why is it a results driven business? Why can’t we look at our training ground, our improvements to the ground, the standing of the club - all of which have been massively improved and continue to be improved - and say that trumps the results? Actual legacy stuff that will be around for decades? Who decreed results are more important than that?

To my mind having that training ground and producing players like Dwight and Lewis Richardson, improving players like Nathan Collins ….. all of that is more important than only getting a draw against Southampton.

If you start looking at Burnley through the prism of arbitrary tutt like “results driven business” you’ll always, always, always be disappointed.

[Socrates]

But he was a one season wonder.

He took over Sheff United in the third division.

How did he get them from there to top half Prem in one season?

[Spijed]

He took over Sheff United in the third division.

How did he get them from there to top half Prem in one season?

I was referring just to his time in the Prem.

Edit: Because in comparison to what SD has achieved at the highest level it didn't end well for him.

Anyway, I fully agree with your sentiments regarding what SD has done for us. It's just a shame others don't.

[Jakubclaret]

I was referring just to his time in the Prem.

Edit: Because in comparison to what SD has achieved at the highest level it didn't end well for him.

Anyway, I fully agree with your sentiments regarding what SD has done for us. It's just a shame others don't.

You could argue despite SD continuity at top level wilders done just as well by moving up more divisions to even it off.

[quoonbeatz]

Excellent posts from socrates.

[diamondpocket]

See ….. it’s stuff like this. It gets bandied about and people don’t really think about what it means.

Why is it a results driven business?

What does that even mean?

What is a result?

How long do you like at results over?

It's not guff though is it really because every manager says it, & even ours has been saying it recently, it's the name of the game - it's results driven. Obviously, it is not as black & white as you make it seem, we are talking about relative success for each team & that perception of success. Obviously our results are never gonna match the top clubs, our road is always gonna be bumpy and nervy because as you rightly say we are competing with THE GIANTS of Football in the most famous league in the world. But relegation & being in the thick of it isn't a success to us so we are right in our criticism to discuss when it becomes valid for the manager to be under pressure based on our results? Some think it should never come because of what he's done. Others think not. But I think it is fair enough to discuss it seeing where we are & because it ain't the 1st season we're in this position, probably won't be the last.

[Sleeping Cat]

ALK have put themselves in a very difficult position with Sean. As they came in they went on the charm offensive openly stating how he was "integral" to their plans, probably to help influence his decision to sign a new contract. It put the ball in Sean's court, knowing how much they wanted him to stay and he had a very strong hand in negotiating and he negotiated a very lucrative and long contract.

Now if performances aren't good enough can ALK afford to sack him? Conversely if we get relegated could ALK afford to keep him on such a lucrative contract with all the debt and interest on loans to pay off to the back drop in such a huge loss in revenue?

[Rombald]

It's not guff though is it really because every manager says it, & even ours has been saying it recently, it's the name of the game - it's results driven. Obviously, it is not as black & white as you make it seem, we are talking about relative success for each team & that perception of success. Obviously our results are never gonna match the top clubs, our road is always gonna be bumpy and nervy because as you rightly say we are competing with THE GIANTS of Football in the most famous league in the world. But relegation & being in the thick of it isn't a success to us so we are right in our criticism to discuss when it becomes valid for the manager to be under pressure based on our results? Some think it should never come because of what he's done. Others think not. But I think it is fair enough to discuss it seeing where we are & because it ain't the 1st season we're in this position, probably won't be the last.

How is it that difficult to keep missing the point?
Results business or not (whatever that means to us) , to discuss getting rid of dyche, in the manner it has been, by a handful of individuals, is the reason, I for one, 100% agree with Socrates.
If it were purely results driven , we'd be better off in division 2 , winning every game....

[claretgimmer]

The thing that bothers me is that this is the same squad with additions that played some brilliant football at Palace, Everton, Wolves last season so there is football in the squad so as manager it`s up to Dyche to ensure that this type of performance is the norm as much as possible not the borefest we are witnessing at the moment, whatever it takes to achieve ie. picking players he seems not to like/prefer, extra training