Abu Dhabi F1

[Lowbankclaret]

Summed up perfectly. Mercedes strategy was done to the rules. Red Bull “gambled”, Horner whinged, Masi played ball.

No, Merc gambled they could win on slow hard tyres that were 40 laps old. Red Bull obviously knew it was going to be a one lap shoot out and put on fast grippy tyres. Er and won.
Perception and bias can be different.
Toto was winging at every decision as well, why does your argument support that Horner won.

[Roosterbooster]

No, Merc gambled they could win on slow hard tyres that were 40 laps old. Red Bull obviously knew it was going to be a one lap shoot out and put on fast grippy tyres. Er and won.
Perception and bias can be different.
Toto was winging at every decision as well, why does your argument support that Horner won.

T
This doesn't really make sense. If red bull knew it was going to be a one lap shootout, then they were privy to information that others weren't. The only way it could have been a 1 lap shootout was if the race director deviated from the rules. That's like saying a team gambled not bringing on 3 subs at half time, whereas another team sensibly did, knowing that the ref would let them bring on a 4th and 5th if they got injuries, even thought that's not in the rules

[Roosterbooster]

Don’t disagree.
But Red Bull could taken the copse issue to court, called loads of ex drivers who would have said Lewis knew what he doing and it was dangerous driving.
Every race could be disputed in court.
As could the VAR decision not to send off the defender who dragged Wood down.

Where do we stop with this.

All others are open to subjective interpretation.
The decision of Masi to let only some lapped cars unlap themselves is an objective contravention of previously written and agreed rules

[Colburn_Claret]

Someone was saying, it should be a small group of people who make these decisions, rather than an individual. It's an obvious solution.
Masi apparently, had to deal with clearing the track safely, deciding whether to allow cars to unlap themselves, when the safety car should come in, whether to red flag the race, all the while getting his ear bent by team principals.
He made a hash of it, but its hardly surprising in the circumstances. A team decision would surely have someone pointing out the backlash that would follow his option and things would probably have gone differently.

[RammyClaret61]

No, Merc gambled they could win on slow hard tyres that were 40 laps old. Red Bull obviously knew it was going to be a one lap shoot out and put on fast grippy tyres. Er and won.
Perception and bias can be different.
Toto was winging at every decision as well, why does your argument support that Horner won.

Because he clearly asked for the lapped cars to be unlapped after the decision to leave them had been taken. He needed that to happen for his gamble to work. Mercedes’ strategy had the race won. They didn’t need to come in. Red bulls strategic gamble needed Horner to give Masi a nudge. Masi duly obliged. Mostly Wolff was complaining, not whinging. Yes he didn’t want a safety car, but got one. Therefore he didn’t get what he wanted, their strategy was then done to the regulations for the safety car. Red Bull whinged about having to wait for the lapped cars unlapping themselves, because that would finish the race, legally under the safety car. Horner then got exactly what he asked for, Just the cars moved from in front of Max. then is “let us race” whinge got the safety car incorrectly in immediately, another rule change to help Red Bull. Everyone knew the outcome from then on. Max was handed the race on a plate. Let’s not forget, before the safety car, Max was 17 seconds behind Hamilton.
Btw, I’m not a supporter of either of them.

[Firthy]

Because he clearly asked for the lapped cars to be unlapped after the decision to leave them had been taken. He needed that to happen for his gamble to work. Mercedes’ strategy had the race won. They didn’t need to come in. Red bulls strategic gamble needed Horner to give Masi a nudge. Masi duly obliged. Mostly Wolff was complaining, not whinging. Yes he didn’t want a safety car, but got one. Therefore he didn’t get what he wanted, their strategy was then done to the regulations for the safety car. Red Bull whinged about having to wait for the lapped cars unlapping themselves, because that would finish the race, legally under the safety car. Horner then got exactly what he asked for, Just the cars moved from in front of Max. then is “let us race” whinge got the safety car incorrectly in immediately, another rule change to help Red Bull. Everyone knew the outcome from then on. Max was handed the race on a plate. Let’s not forget, before the safety car, Max was 17 seconds behind Hamilton.
Btw, I’m not a supporter of either of them.

In a nutshell

[Lowbankclaret]

Because he clearly asked for the lapped cars to be unlapped after the decision to leave them had been taken. He needed that to happen for his gamble to work. Mercedes’ strategy had the race won. They didn’t need to come in. Red bulls strategic gamble needed Horner to give Masi a nudge. Masi duly obliged. Mostly Wolff was complaining, not whinging. Yes he didn’t want a safety car, but got one. Therefore he didn’t get what he wanted, their strategy was then done to the regulations for the safety car. Red Bull whinged about having to wait for the lapped cars unlapping themselves, because that would finish the race, legally under the safety car. Horner then got exactly what he asked for, Just the cars moved from in front of Max. then is “let us race” whinge got the safety car incorrectly in immediately, another rule change to help Red Bull. Everyone knew the outcome from then on. Max was handed the race on a plate. Let’s not forget, before the safety car, Max was 17 seconds behind Hamilton.
Btw, I’m not a supporter of either of them.

I was just offering a different perspective, which I tried to say in the post. Probably not clearly enough.

I still think if Max had stayed on his hard tyres , he would still have won because he could be more aggressive if the one lap still happened.

It was a really bad way for it to finish and does make it feel tainted in some way.

37 days till all starts again with completely new cars, albeit with the same power units. But just to add spice next year we have George in hopefully a competitive car. That’s going to be fireworks.

[Lowbankclaret]

Sorry 97 days

[Lowbankclaret]

Just read an article where Palmer says he puts some of the blame on Bottas, who went missing in the last race. Bottas only needed to be within 20 seconds of Max and he could not have pitted for softs.

Interestingly perspective, but has some truth in it.

[Sutton-Claret]

I still think if Max had stayed on his hard tyres , he would still have won because he could be more aggressive if the one lap still happened.

Max would definitly not have won if he stayed on the hard tyre - he was lapping almost a second a lap slower than Hamilton before the crash. His fresh soft tyre allowed him to get a better exit off the turn and later braking on the next corner - thus passing Hamilton.

Merc (being in 1st place at the time) didn't want to lose track position so stayed out (quite right) - Red Bull had to take the gamble (2nd place) - which would only work if the lapped cars were allowed to pass the leader...... whether it was the right decision to allow the cars through is a grey area which unfortunately has tainted Max's first championship.

I've wanted Max to take the championship all season - but not like this. I think Hamilton and Merc were robbed

[Stanbill05]

Bottas was pathetic. Don't know whether he'd wrapped, was sulking or what was going on, but he should definitely have been more competitive. I think most people expect Mercedes car to be fastest next year, which is why lots of people wanted a red bull win this year. Could feasibly be verstappens last title if he stays at red bull and Russell progresses as people seem to expect him to.

Hope I'm wrong and it's competitive again, but not convinced given the last few races..

[ian]

2021 F1 Season - Is This Really How It Ends?
https://www.wegotgame.com.au/post/2021- ... ow-it-ends
Written by Principal Lawyer & Consultant @WeGot_Game for Sports Law & Integrity

I suspect that to avoid overshadowing Lewis Hamilton's knighthood an appeal could come tomorrow, just before the FIA prizegiving ceremony
That is unless the Merc bosses put a stop to it to avoid damaging their brand

[ian]

FIA Statement
https://www.fia.com/news/statement-fia- ... rt-council

[Herts Clarets]

Mercedes withdraw their appeal against the events at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59681314

[4:20]

Incredible effort from Max to win 3 world championships in less than a week.

[RVclaret]

Disappointed that they aren’t following up with the appeal. Loads of F1 followers are going to be gone after this.

[Lowbankclaret]

I think it’s the correct thing to do, not to fight it in the courts.

It did tarnish the championship, for both Lewis and Max fans.

Let’s hope the new cars do give closer racing and drivers able to fight at the sharp end.

I also hope a team from mid field finds a radicle solution and is competitive from the off and we have 6-8 drivers fighting for wins.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Disappointed that they aren’t following up with the appeal. Loads of F1 followers are going to be gone after this.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/480 ... onths-usa/

More than have gone already over the last 12yrs?

[Steve1956]

If I was Lewis I would walk away from the sport now,we all know he won the World Championship this season only to be robbed by a totally inept bellend deciding he wanted to be the center of attraction....Walk away with your head held high Lewis....the sport doesn't deserve a true champion like you.
I think he will.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Ha that's some bizarre thinking there.
He won't walk away yet, the challenge is to win his 8th title and get revenge for last weekend.

[RVclaret]

Toto interview stating that he doesn’t know yet if Lewis can or will continue after what happened. While I’m sure he will still want that 8th title, it must be so hard to move on after literally having it robbed off you like that.

[Steve1956]

Ha that's some bizarre thinking there.
He won't walk away yet, the challenge is to win his 8th title and get revenge for last weekend.

He won his 8th World title last weekend

[GodIsADeeJay81]

If he walks away now then he's not the man many thought he is.

Next season should see him gunning for revenge

[GodIsADeeJay81]

He won his 8th World title last weekend

The records would suggest otherwise.
I know you're upset still and refuse to accept the result, but even Mercedes have accepted it.

[Steve1956]

The records would suggest otherwise.
I know you're upset still and refuse to accept the result, but even Mercedes have accepted it.

We all know who won it whatever the records say...Hamilton was robbed,Verstappen's title will be forever tainted.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

We all know who won it whatever the records say...Hamilton was robbed,Verstappen's title will be forever tainted.

Not really, because Schumachers wasn't after he smashed into Hill

[Steve1956]

Not really, because Schumachers wasn't after he smashed into Hill

Schumacher's might no have been tainted by you but it certainly was by me...cheating of the worst kind.

[Shaggy]

Are we still arguing about this?

Facts are Max is the F1 champion in what was an inferior car to the Mercedes. The Mercedes in the hybrid era has been disgustingly dominant. Lewis can certainly attribute most of his titles to the Mercedes. He’s a great driver yea but he’s also had the best of the best equipment.

[Stanbill05]

Are we still arguing about this?

Facts are Max is the F1 champion in what was an inferior car to the Mercedes. The Mercedes in the hybrid era has been disgustingly dominant. Lewis can certainly attribute most of his titles to the Mercedes. He’s a great driver yea but he’s also had the best of the best equipment.

Is it a fact that Mercedes have had a better car all season? Short memory. Certainly true that it finished stronger, but Max himself acknowledges the red bull car was superior for lots of races this season. Otherwise your points are valid.

[Firthy]

"At a news conference on Wednesday at Red Bull's UK F1 headquarters, Verstappen and Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said Masi needed more support to be able to do his job effectively.

Verstappen said: "Michael is a nice guy and he tries his very best and it's very unfair to now start hating on him because it is a very tough job."

Horner added: "Michael has been under massive pressure from all sides."

They've got some nerve, it was their pressure and whining that made him change his decision to let lapped cars through and bring the safety car in a lap early and cause all this animosity.

The following conversation shows just how clueless Masi is, the last lap was anything but fair racing.

Michael, what was that?" he said.

And as Verstappen crossed the line for the last time, Wolff exclaimed: "You need to reinstate the lap before, that's not right!

Masi hit back at Wolff, replying: "Toto, it's called a motor race. We went car racing."

Anyway, Mercedes have done the honourable thing and decided not to take it to court, although I think they might have won and the result overturned if they had. Not sure what the FIA can do now to change peoples opinions and reverse the damage this has done to the sport.

[PeterWilton]

Not really, because Schumachers wasn't after he smashed into Hill

The very fact that when we think of controversial champions and Schumacher's is the first name on everyone's list is solid evidence that his first title is tainted.

[Steve1956]

The very fact that when we think of controversial champions and Schumacher's is the first name on everyone's list is solid evidence that his first title is tainted.

There is more than one of Schumacher's world championships tainted....win at all costs Michael!!!

[Firthy]

Talk about rubbing salt in the wound

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59705074

[RVclaret]

Talk about rubbing salt in the wound

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59705074

They’ve got some nerve

[Burnley Ace]

Just watched Duel: Ham v Ver on Sky. When you see the evidence, the timeline etc that decision to let those back markers through was just outrageous and Horner’s subsequent justification that it was racing etc and his defence of Massi (playing the mental health card) is disgusting.