Garlick Bashers

[bf2k]

No he saw a chance to make a profit and took it.

What, over 2/3 years?

[Burnleyareback2]

Driven out by fans? I’d love to see some evidence of that. The simple truth is he saw an opportunity to make some money by selling. Probably the biggest criticism of him eventually could be who he sold to.

I thought it was evident on here Tony for years, the constant expectation that we should be spending money in line with the like of Fulham, Villa etc Money we didn’t have and never will have - constant criticism due to huge expectations.

[bf2k]

No he saw a chance to make a profit and took it.

Was that opportunity there for 2/3 years?

[CrosspoolClarets]

The old board lining their pockets (legally, but maybe not morally given their speeches about “one club” and putting the club and town first) would have been fine if they had left something behind, but they didn’t, the training ground is good but not much to show for all these years on the top table. The ground is as crumbling now as it was before for most of us so it is not hard to see us back in the lower divisions again with few fans. If we were, say, a Brentford with a new ground it is easier to see them bouncing down and up a few times with that feel and positivity.

It was as inevitable as the sun rising in the dawn, I was predicting it for many years, business people are usually money first, customers second. As far as I can see they did nothing for me - Dyche got us up and kept us up, the limited investment arguably hindered that more than helped. They got darn lucky - because the drop would have harmed the sale price more than anything else.

ALK may turn out to be failures, but for now what I see is some much needed cosmetic ground improvement (need more than cosmetic longer term obviously) and three very good signings in their first summer window. So far, they need a chance before we get all like fans of other clubs we could name (NUFC and Ashley etc). They could yet be good for us.

[brexit]

Was that opportunity there for 2/3 years?

I assume so

[Burnleyareback2]

Are you ******* serious? The best way to run a football club is to not invest into it.


How was it a risk?



Same as last time!

The previous board walked away from this club laughing to the bank when the squad was never adequately invested in.

Apologies, I forget about how profitable we were as a championship team.

[ClaretTony]

I thought it was evident on here Tony for years, the constant expectation that we should be spending money in line with the like of Fulham, Villa etc Money we didn’t have and never will have - constant criticism due to huge expectations.

There's always such expectation. At the Brighton game on the opening day of the 2002/03 season, Kilby was booed when he came on the pitch to do a presentation, and all because we hadn't bought anyone in the summer as ITV Digital collapsed.

Garlick was hardly seen to be honest but I know he didn't like it when the fans chanted Kilby's name at Olympiacos. His way of running the club alienated a lot of people but he was clearly building up the reserves to get a better sale price for himself. I can't remember exactly when, but it was at least three years before the sale when a prospectus was sent out. He was obviously looking to sell for a long time.

I'm not enamoured by the new owners at this time. They don't appear to have any funding at all and are stacking up the debt having spent a lot of the reserves on a leveraged buy out. They, like every other owner, will have demands from fans to spend. We'll see what happens but they haven't spent much yet in the transfer market given the way they have set up deals coupled with the sale of Gibson.

[bf2k]

I assume so

So we chain a European spot and then a 10th place yet no sale?

The lack of investment over the last 3 seasons has been neglect. Don’t say investment on the training pitch shows investment either. The playing squad investment has been neglected to keep the spend down so the books look good.

[lakesider]

Lovely analogy alf_resco and probably accurate. Did I also read somewhere that Garlick also hadn't been paid either in part or in full yet? I think the point about offering up more funds........ maybe he thought that the not inconsiderable funds he made available one year ( 40M on Vydra, Gibson etc?), wasn't spent wisely by whoever was responsible for our transfer business and perhaps he lost his faith in those people as far as transfers were concerned?
Maybe the thought of clearing out those people dealing with transfers was unattractive nay near impossible and therefore it was time to dress up the shop window and find someone who can? That someone at the moment is Alan Pace and his co-investors. I think Garlick knew this day was coming and he perhaps didn't have the appetite for the significant overhauling that is required and plain to see and maybe there weren't too many other suitors out there hence the reverse buyout.
That decision is fine by me although I would have preferred an outfit that would have pumped more cash onto the balance sheet.
We've always been a club that couldn't stand the financial trauma of too many 'bad' transfers but without totting it up (am sure someone on here could provide a comprehensive list), it feels like we have made quite a few mistakes with our recruitment over the last ten years. And whoever is responsible for players contracts needs to give his/her head a wobble.

Going forward, now that the honeymoon period is officially over I would expect immediate action from the yanks and it might not be pretty. Can't see them just lying down and accepting relegation without a serious fight. Don't be fooled by the man with the smiley and incredibly bright white nashers!

[boatshed bill]

I just wonder,
had MG run up a huge personal debt while funding the signings fans wanted would they have chipped in and covered his losses?

[bf2k]

Apologies, I forget about how profitable we were as a championship team.

And the board didn’t invest when we were a championship club other than when we had parachute money

[Burnleyareback2]

There's always such expectation. At the Brighton game on the opening day of the 2002/03 season, Kilby was booed when he came on the pitch to do a presentation, and all because we hadn't bought anyone in the summer as ITV Digital collapsed.

Garlick was hardly seen to be honest but I know he didn't like it when the fans chanted Kilby's name at Olympiacos. His way of running the club alienated a lot of people but he was clearly building up the reserves to get a better sale price for himself. I can't remember exactly when, but it was at least three years before the sale when a prospectus was sent out. He was obviously looking to sell for a long time.

I'm not enamoured by the new owners at this time. They don't appear to have any funding at all and are stacking up the debt having spent a lot of the reserves on a leveraged buy out. They, like every other owner, will have demands from fans to spend. We'll see what happens but they haven't spent much yet in the transfer market given the way they have set up deals coupled with the sale of Gibson.

I was hugely against the sale of the club Tony, I just don’t see how we can create the revenue to satisfy outside investment for a club of our size.

[ClaretTony]

I was hugely against the sale of the club Tony, I just don’t see how we can create the revenue to satisfy outside investment for a club of our size.

I was concerned about the sale of the club and I'm more concerned now than I was a year ago.

[Burnleyareback2]

And the board didn’t invest when we were a championship club other than when we had parachute money

I’ve been watching Burnley for a while now and can remember the 2008/ 2009 season when we had transfer embargo’s due to our financial position.

[ClaretTony]

I just wonder,
had MG run up a huge personal debt while funding the signings fans wanted would they have chipped in and covered his losses?

I don't think he funded signings - although a lot of fans were always telling our directors to get their hands out of their pockets.

[ewanrob]

I'm not enamoured by the new owners at this time. They don't appear to have any funding at all and are stacking up the debt having spent a lot of the reserves on a leveraged buy out. They, like every other owner, will have demands from fans to spend. We'll see what happens but they haven't spent much yet in the transfer market given the way they have set up deals coupled with the sale of Gibson.

Wow, not liking this....the Outlook on and off the pitch not good at all. Does sort of make you wonder why Dyche signed the contract if he wasn't confident of funds being in place.

[bf2k]

I’ve been watching Burnley for a while now and can remember the 2008/ 2009 season when we had transfer embargo’s due to our financial position.

We didn’t have an embargo! We were close because of defaulted payment to Man Utd for Chris Eagles.

But Garlick wasn’t the chairman at this point. It was Kilby.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I just wonder,
had MG run up a huge personal debt while funding the signings fans wanted would they have chipped in and covered his losses?

There’s a huge range of possibilities between that personal debt you hypothesise and the huge profit he made on his investment.

I think we can all make our personal choice on where we feel would have been appropriate in that range of possibilities.

[ClaretTony]

We didn’t have an embargo! We were close because of defaulted payment to Man Utd for Chris Eagles.

But Garlick wasn’t the chairman at this point. It was Kilby.

I believe we were embargoed, we also defaulted on payments to Scunthorpe I believe for Martin Paterson. Kilby was chairman but Flood was very much the man in charge at the time.

[ksrclaret]

Does sort of make you wonder why Dyche signed the contract if he wasn't confident of funds being in place.

Probably because the contract guaranteed his own, huge, personal funds would be in place for another four years.

[Burnleyareback2]

We didn’t have an embargo! We were close because of defaulted payment to Man Utd for Chris Eagles.

But Garlick wasn’t the chairman at this point. It was Kilby.

I’m aware that Kilby was the chairman at the time - but thanks anyway.

Close to an embargo! - That certainly paints a very different financial position than I suggested.

[Burnleyareback2]

Probably because the contract guaranteed his own, huge, personal funds would be in place for another four years.

Or maybe he wanted some security to rebuild the team under new owners and continue his project.

I doubt there was anyone forcing him to sign a 4 year deal.

[ksrclaret]

Or maybe he wanted some security to rebuild the team under new owners and continue his project.

I doubt there was anyone forcing him to sign a 4 year deal.

No, but I bet Pace still has the bite marks on his hand he offered the contract with!

[bf2k]

I believe we were embargoed, we also defaulted on payments to Scunthorpe I believe for Martin Paterson. Kilby was chairman but Flood was very much the man in charge at the time.

Sorry my mistake, I wasn’t aware it actually went to embargo. Point still stands that it wasn’t under Garlick’s stewardship

[bfcjg]

FC Burnley anybody ? I really worry about the club, so much debt, the thing is it is our club formerly owned by Clarets day out with family and friends not complicated financial deals etc. They will walk away either breaking even or making a small return when that happens those of us with slightly deeper pockets will walk towards it. UTC Burnley FC so much better then an agenda item.

[bf2k]

I should add Kilby (and Flood) didn’t have any premier league money behind them unlike Garlick and John B did

[ClaretTony]

I should add Kilby (and Flood) didn’t have any premier league money behind them unlike Garlick and John B did

John B was joint chair from 2012 to 2015 and then stood down when Garlick acquired a lot more shares. His third year as joint chair was in the Premier League but, prior to that, it was John B who organised the buy back of Turf Moor and Gawthorpe and also it was John B who organised the share sales that allowed us to sign Ashley Barnes in Jan 2014.

[Burnleyareback2]

I should add Kilby (and Flood) didn’t have any premier league money behind them unlike Garlick and John B did

I should add that I understood Barry Kilby stepped down in 2012 - seem to recall us being in the premier league before that.

[bf2k]

John B was joint chair from 2012 to 2015 and then stood down when Garlick acquired a lot more shares. His third year as joint chair was in the Premier League but, prior to that, it was John B who organised the buy back of Turf Moor and Gawthorpe and also it was John B who organised the share sales that allowed us to sign Ashley Barnes in Jan 2014.

In 2012 we’d have still had at least 1 parachute payment left correct?

For what it’s worth I think John B did a lot of good for our club.

[Bordeauxclaret]

It’s amazing who the heroes turn out to be me when things start going wrong.

[ClaretTony]

In 2012 we’d have still had at least 1 parachute payment left correct?

For what it’s worth I think John B did a lot of good for our club.

I think it had been spent though - we found ourselves short financially very quickly after that first Premier League season. John B joined the board around November 2010 and we weren't good financially even then.

[alboclaret]

Man buys a local supermarket in a poor state. Puts in lots of his own cash with no guarantee it'll work - he could lose the lot. He smartens the place up. Installs a new, unproven manager who knows how to run a supermarket and the shop flourishes. Regular loyal customers are happy and flock there to see the range of new goods on display. Some years later, nothing much has changed. Shop still doing ok but other competitors are making life a bit harder. Owner isn't too keen on spending more money sprucing up the store yet again as it's doing ok but the now well-renowned manager wants more brass spent. Owner then thinks this is as good as it gets and a rival comes in with an offer to buy him out that is simply too good to refuse. So he sells and makes a tidy profit.
Anyone blame him?

The fans

[Vegas Claret]

I think it had been spent though - we found ourselves short financially very quickly after that first Premier League season. John B joined the board around November 2010 and we weren't good financially even then.

genuine question - given the fact that we're not particularly wealthy, I find it very disappointing that we've not allowed more of our younger players a chance. We had all that investment in Barnfield (which was required) but you would think by now Dyche would be able to pick a few of them - did he inherit a poor crop or is it his reluctance to give them opportunities ? Going forward as a club surely that has to be the future ?

[MACCA]

He was not driven out by the fans at all. What utter nonsense.

He made the decision some years before the sale actually happened to prioritise a huge return for the majority shareholders over keeping the club progressing as it should have been.

Sorry, but his last few years in charge stank.

Very true, and as a wise man once said, long before others realised what he was upto

"Garlick stinks"

[bf2k]

genuine question - given the fact that we're not particularly wealthy, I find it very disappointing that we've not allowed more of our younger players a chance. We had all that investment in Barnfield (which was required) but you would think by now Dyche would be able to pick a few of them - did he inherit a poor crop or is it his reluctance to give them opportunities ? Going forward as a club surely that has to be the future ?

Barnfield has been going what 3 years? That’s no where near enough time to produce a player unless you have a Jay Rod or Chaplow type player.

[Vegas Claret]

Barnfield has been going what 3 years? That’s no where near enough time to produce a player unless you have a Jay Rod or Chaplow type player.

out of the under 23's ? i'd massively beg to differ

edit: Dyche has had control of the setup for a decade now and we've only really seen McNeil.

[bf2k]

out of the under 23's ? i'd massively beg to differ

edit: Dyche has had control of the setup for a decade now and we've only really seen McNeil.

Unfortunately I think that shows you how bad the setup was at Gawthorpe.

[Kazoo]

The best way to sell the club was to keep it as financially attractive as possible - cash in the bank.

How saleable do you think the club is now that we have zero cash and a heap load of debt, laid onto is by owners who have zero financial clobber of their own?

[dsr]

I’d be interested to know the correlation between people blaming the previous owner for our current situation and the people that wanted him out of the club.

In my opinion he was driven out of the club by fans expecting us to spend unsustainably each transfer window. The best way to sell the club was to keep it as financially attractive as possible - cash in the bank.

I appreciate he made a huge profit for his investment but he also took a huge risk when he took over. If the club had failed in this league how much money would he have to pump in just to keep us in the championship? The risk and reward are equal for me.

Before Garlick sold his shares, there were broadly speaking two schools of thought. One, that we weren't spending enough on players and should keep less in the bank and/or have a loan, and use the proceeds to strengthen the squad. Two, that we were fine keeping funds in reserve for the bad times and/or waiting for better players to become available.

What literally no-one was hoping for was to go heavily into debt but not spend any of the new loan on players. Garlick gave us the worst of both worlds. He would have got the same effect if he had paid himself a salary of £20m per year and sold the club for what ALK could afford to pay.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Purely a matter of time until fans turn on the current board.

They have been blinded by there hate for Garlick (totally unwarranted).

After every match day it’s looking more likely we will be the next Bolton/Wigan.

[KevWebstersBomber]

Purely a matter of time until fans turn on the current board.

They have been blinded by there hate for Garlick (totally unwarranted).

After every match day it’s looking more likely we will be the next Bolton/Wigan.

Garlick must be accountable for our current situation? Not saying it’s all down to him but transfer window after transfer window without strengthening is starting to bite us up the a***.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Garlick must be accountable for our current situation? Not saying it’s all down to him but transfer window after transfer window without strengthening is starting to bite us up the a***.

It’s ********, pace has had two full windows and bought one first teamer.

Looking like no one decent coming in this window.

Would love to have seen the reaction to Garlick putting the club in massive debt, increasing ticket prices, let 11 players contracts run out in 6 months during a relegation battle and sign 1 first team player in 3 transfer windows.

Pace is just as liable for this.

[Burnleyareback2]

How saleable do you think the club is now that we have zero cash and a heap load of debt, laid onto is by owners who have zero financial clobber of their own?

Absolutely un-saleable in the current situation. Better if we had zero cash, unfortunately it’s worse than that.

[KevWebstersBomber]

It’s ********, pace has had two full windows and bought one first teamer.

Looking like no one decent coming in this window.

Would love to have seen the reaction to Garlick putting the club in massive debt, increasing ticket prices, let 11 players contracts run out in 6 months during a relegation battle and sign 1 first team player in 3 transfer windows.

Pace is just as liable for this.

Summer window on the face of it was positive. Cornet, Roberts, Collins & Hennessy. Would have these have signed under Garlick? Based on past windows probably not.

Time will tell on this window but we obviously need bodies to go straight in, but as you say unlikely.

[Duffer_]

What literally no-one was hoping for was to go heavily into debt but not spend any of the new loan on players. Garlick gave us the worst of both worlds. He would have got the same effect if he had paid himself a salary of £20m per year and sold the club for what ALK could afford to pay.

Interesting point dsr but maybe it was a bit naive to expect a sugar daddy.

Screenshot_20220109-005944_Chrome.jpg (651.54 KiB) Viewed 1883 times

[majormajor]

Admittedly haven't read the whole thread but this idea that Garlick was driven out needs to end. There were absolutely no dissenting voices at the Turf prior to the sale (when we had fans on). Nobody was shouting Garlick out, no banners, no protests, nothing. He sold because he wanted out.

[Burnleyareback2]

Admittedly haven't read the whole thread but this idea that Garlick was driven out needs to end. There were absolutely no dissenting voices at the Turf prior to the sale (when we had fans on). Nobody was shouting Garlick out, no banners, no protests, nothing. He sold because he wanted out.

The world has changed Major, protests outside the ground became threads on here.

[bf2k]

The world has changed Major, protests outside the ground became threads on here.

Rubbish

[claptrappers_union]

Garlick is responsible, but that said, you could use an analogy of buying a house, living in it spending years on doing it up and then putting it on the market. Your not going to continue to throw money on it are you.

[Vegas Claret]

It’s ********, pace has had two full windows and bought one first teamer.

Looking like no one decent coming in this window.

Would love to have seen the reaction to Garlick putting the club in massive debt, increasing ticket prices, let 11 players contracts run out in 6 months during a relegation battle and sign 1 first team player in 3 transfer windows.

Pace is just as liable for this.

don't be daft, he's bought 3 internationals and the best CB in the Championship - it's down to Dyche's stubbornness/loyalty that we haven't seen much of Roberts and Collins