Club Ownership Survey

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:39 pm

It’s a very short survey but I’d appreciate you completing it on behalf of Nick Harris, Mail on Sunday.

Thanks

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... Q/viewform

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:42 pm

And I’ve just completed it

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:43 pm

Done, only 6 questions.

Might not get a well balanced view now after this window.
People will be living their wounds.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:46 pm

MACCA wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:43 pm
Done, only 6 questions.

Might not get a well balanced view now after this window.
People will be living their wounds.

It’s nothing to do with the window though. I hope people don’t think it is.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:47 pm

Done.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:48 pm

Who has Boll0xed up the league the most? Like this one

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:49 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:46 pm
It’s nothing to do with the window though. I hope people don’t think it is.

I think the

"All things considered, do you think ALK Capital are doing a good job of running Burnley?"

The transfer windows ins and outs will be taken into consideration for some I think.

claretburns · Post by **claretburns** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:52 pm

Done.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:56 pm

Done.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:01 pm

Done.

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:04 pm

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:05 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:48 pm
Who has Boll0xed up the league the most? Like this one

I'm imagining only one "winner"

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:33 pm

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:05 pm
I'm imagining only one "winner"

but they have a new challenger

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:35 pm

MACCA wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:49 pm
I think the

"All things considered, do you think ALK Capital are doing a good job of running Burnley?"

The transfer windows ins and outs will be taken into consideration for some I think.

They should be ok then, what with bringing in Cornet, Collins, Roberts and Weghorst, and only losing Wood which was beyond their control anyway. Hope folk considered that before answering, rather than forgetting the time and effort put into getting Orsic and then having a reactionary chunter....

clansman · Post by **clansman** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:39 pm

Done
Admire Norwich don’t admire Man City!!

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:39 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:33 pm
but they have a new challenger

They do, but it would be harsh to publicly flog them so early into their tenure, no?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:40 pm

bobinho wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:35 pm
They should be ok then, what with bringing in Cornet, Collins, Roberts and Weghorst, and only losing Wood which was beyond their control anyway. Hope folk considered that before answering, rather than forgetting the time and effort put into getting Orsic and then having a reactionary chunter....

I hope people don't consider putting emphasis on the transfer window

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:40 pm

Anyway, done.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:41 pm

bobinho wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:39 pm
They do, but it would be harsh to publicly flog them so early into their tenure, no?

Nah, Go straight to beheading them

The Hung Juror · Post by **The Hung Juror** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:42 pm

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:42 pm

I wasn't going to complete it but after this shocking transfer window I just had to share my views on Mr Pace. I answered Leicester for the owners I admire because what they have done for the club, community and city of Leicester is absolutely fantastic

I put down Watford as the bad guys cos of them trying to trick Mr Pace into buying that lame duck Gosling.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:43 pm

Totally agree on Leicester

barracuda · Post by **barracuda** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:48 pm

Sorry. But I wouldn't wipe my backside on The Mail . Why contribute to garbage?

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:48 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:40 pm
I hope people don't consider putting emphasis on the transfer window

They probably will seeing as it is the only real interaction we have with them. At least it is what is important to a lot of us.

To be fair, it does actually ask why we have the opinion we do, so why it can't be related to transfer activity i'm unsure seeing as it's directly related to our success on the pitch. Ultimately, that will be how they are judged over their time here.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:50 pm

barracuda wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:48 pm
Sorry. But I wouldn't wipe my backside on The Mail . Why contribute to garbage?

What, I thought it was for the Ministry of Sound. I wish I wouldn't have done it now

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:51 pm

barracuda wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:48 pm
Sorry. But I wouldn't wipe my backside on The Mail . Why contribute to garbage?

I should hope not...disgusting behaviour when there's stuff like quilted Andrex

tarkys_ears · Post by **tarkys_ears** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:01 pm

Hopefully The Socialist Worker will be running their own surverys for you to fill in soon?

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:10 pm

Done, interesting questions.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:10 pm

We need a "don't know" for question 1. I need to see the accounts, and how much they are taking out in annual fees and salaries, before I can answer.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:52 pm

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:54 pm

Done.

ALP · Post by **ALP** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:08 pm

DAVETHEVICAR · Post by **DAVETHEVICAR** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:24 pm

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:33 pm

Anyone put Alex Flynn as the man who bolloxed up the League - he was the creative mind behind both the Premier League and Champions League - he does not like what they have become - he was an executive at Saatchi & Saatchi at the time

you can find out more him and his involvements here

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... sf=msgonly

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:44 pm

done.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:47 pm

Chester Perry wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:33 pm
Anyone put Alex Flynn as the man who bolloxed up the League - he was the creative mind behind both the Premier League and Champions League - he does not like what they have become - he was an executive at Saatchi & Saatchi at the time

you can find out more him and his involvements here

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... sf=msgonly

Equally you could put the people behind the the removal of the gate share in the late 70's, or those behind the removal of the even distribution of TV monies in 1983 (yes bottom of the 4th Division got the same as top of the first division). In both cases it was led by Spurs, ably assisted by Man Utd, Liverpool, Everton and Arsenal who were also the prime advocates for the Premier League.

without all these 'advances' you would not have Oligarch's, nation states, Private Equity making the situation so unbalanced.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:11 am

Chester, I am a fan of your input, you have a genuine grasp on the games finances in my humble opinion.
That said, it is so hugely complex, and probably corrupt, that it would take years to trawl through all the pitfalls and mistakes, and not only that, the fabric of the game would be reduced to number columns.
We are as fans only able to show our support. However bent our own regimes have been, we have to either turn our backs and plead ignorance, or we see it all for what it is and walk away from football permanently.
I am a dimwit when it comes to football business, but if it becomes so detestable to enough fans, then it will implode one day soon. Its only months since the super league fiasco, the links to individuals and "bad clubs" will be endless. Either we accept the status quo, or its game over surely. What level of love for a game should require us to have to scrutinise every single business dealing out there ? We wouldn't stand a chance.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:24 am

Wile E Coyote wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:11 am
Chester, I am a fan of your input, you have a genuine grasp on the games finances in my humble opinion.
That said, it is so hugely complex, and probably corrupt, that it would take years to trawl through all the pitfalls and mistakes, and not only that, the fabric of the game would be reduced to number columns.
We are as fans only able to show our support. However bent our own regimes have been, we have to either turn our backs and plead ignorance, or we see it all for what it is and walk away from football permanently.
I am a dimwit when it comes to football business, but if it becomes so detestable to enough fans, then it will implode one day soon. Its only months since the super league fiasco, the links to individuals and "bad clubs" will be endless. Either we accept the status quo, or its game over surely. What level of love for a game should require us to have to scrutinise every single business dealing out there ? We wouldn't stand a chance.

It comes down to having a level playing field - many at the FA thought it had gone when Blackburn Olympic were allowed to triumph with 'professionals in the 1870's, The maximum wage came in as a response to Liverpool paying (for those days) huge sums to get other teams players so as to win the league. The end of that era came when Jimmy Hill provided affidavit's from over 200 players to show that clubs (probably all in Division One) were paying players 'under the counter' around 1960. It was that which probably triggered the rise inequality that has only been getting worse for 60 years, It is clear that £20 per week max was farcical in the top league though.

I will say that from my perspective there has been nothing quite so damaging to domestic leagues across Europe as the Champions League. The gold rush that has created has led to many of the issues we are seeing (including the need parachute payments)

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:35 am

Done, and with no thought of the transfer window.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:39 am

My apologies for deviating from the original post CT.

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:47 am

Done.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:31 am

Thanks to those who have completed it so far. I am told that the response from Burnley has been excellent.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:53 am

Among other clubs currently in the Premier League, which owners at ONE CLUB do you think are the most admirable in terms of what they've done as custodians?

It's quite a struggle to actually think of one.

Goddy · Post by **Goddy** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:20 am

Done.

To those who have voted for Leicester, I would agree in the recent past, although I still can't forgive them for going into administration and, in effect, having a new stadium built for free and taking down a number of local businesses. Immoral and unforgivable (in mu humble opinion) and subsequently gave Leicester a massive advantage.

Rant over.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:43 am

Goddy wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:20 am
Done.

To those who have voted for Leicester, I would agree in the recent past, although I still can't forgive them for going into administration and, in effect, having a new stadium built for free and taking down a number of local businesses. Immoral and unforgivable (in mu humble opinion) and subsequently gave Leicester a massive advantage.

Rant over.

There is also the fact that Leicester are not run sustainably, they have a benevolent benefactor (across two generations) who has done much that has been welcomed in the City but a custodian needs to leave with a sustainable business - it could be argued that is what occurs at the end of everything (including the huge developments in and around the stadium, but while the Academy and training facility is magnificent you wonder how the circa £100m spend on its infrastructure justified). Similar plaudits could be given to Man City's owners if you look at what they have done in that area of the city. Roman Abramovich has done an awful lot of good things around Chelsea that in the main is kept quiet, they set an awful lot of good examples on the community welfare side. Neither of these are Custodians yet as they too have not developed the clubs to be sustainable in the long term. Ironically I thing our current owners have a more sustainable model for now.

The only ownership currently in the league with a current and long term sustainable approach is Norwich. They pay the price for it with the yo-yo but 6 promotions to the big league so far means the fans have had plenty of excitement as well

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:47 am

They love the owners at Leicester. They've become very accessible to the supporters and have done a lot of good in the city in terms of supporting charities, hospitals etc. But, at the end of the day, they are owners who are ploughing in their own money.

ClaretPete001 · Post by **ClaretPete001** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:47 am

Chester Perry wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:43 am
There is also the fact that Leicester are not run sustainably, they have a benevolent benefactor (across two generations) who has done much that has been welcomed in the City but a custodian needs to leave with a sustainable business - it could be argued that is what occurs at the end of everything (including the huge developments in and around the stadium, but while the Academy and training facility is magnificent you wonder how the circa £100m spend on its infrastructure justified). Similar plaudits could be given to Man City's owners if you look at what they have done in that area of the city. Roman Abramovich has done an awful lot of good things around Chelsea that in the main is kept quiet, they set an awful lot of good examples on the community welfare side. Neither of these are Custodians yet as they too have not developed the clubs to be sustainable in the long term. Ironically I thing our current owners have a more sustainable model for now.

The only ownership currently in the league with a current and long term sustainable approach is Norwich. They pay the price for it with the yo-yo but 6 promotions to the big league so far means the fans have had plenty of excitement as well

I agree 100%.

I think you have to differentiate between political and ethics/sustainability. The politics of a level playing field is one thing that has always been around where that crosses the boundary is when teams want to start erode competition.

Equally, rich people have always owned clubs and it seems to me that billionaire owners can buy listed global mega brands in leveraged buy outs subject to market valuations and financial oversight if they wish. Buying community clubs using the same techniques with no seemingly obvious sustainable business model seems to me to be crossing the line.

And again, billion dollar sporting empires can buy clubs if they wish but it seem to me that billionaire individuals and states with no discernible interest in sport and the need to cleanse brands crosses the line.

I think you can criticise the Premiership without stepping into politics based upon fairly common sense rules around ethics and sustainability.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:54 am

barracuda wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:48 pm
Sorry. But I wouldn't wipe my backside on The Mail . Why contribute to garbage?

+1

Goddy · Post by **Goddy** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:54 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:47 am
They love the owners at Leicester. They've become very accessible to the supporters and have done a lot of good in the city in terms of supporting charities, hospitals etc. But, at the end of the day, they are owners who are ploughing in their own money.

Yep - I agree with this, Tony. The current owners are really loved in Leicester (and rightly so, from what I can see). My beef was with the previous types who basically set the club up at the expense of a lot of others (although there's plenty of examples of similar behaviour elsewhere).

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:15 pm

Goddy wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:54 pm
Yep - I agree with this, Tony. The current owners are really loved in Leicester (and rightly so, from what I can see). My beef was with the previous types who basically set the club up at the expense of a lot of others (although there's plenty of examples of similar behaviour elsewhere).

Shameful what happened at Leicester when they went into admin.