Sack Dyche now

[Vegas Claret]

And that's the case in all conditions. You are stating the obvious. I'm not defending tactics. I've not once referred to tactics. I'm referring to the dreadful conditions that you cant appreciate watching on the tele.

I played enough games and have been to enough games to know how it can affect play, not sure why you are suggesting I can't appreciate the conditions because I now watch the games on the TV though - should I dismiss the experience gained from 30+ years of watching Burnley play in all sorts of conditions ? The rain today looked like a sprinkle compared to Sunderland away at Roker Park

[ksrclaret]

Can't afford to sack him even if the football he serves up is beyond shite.

[taio]

I played enough games and have been to enough games to know how it can affect play, not sure why you are suggesting I can't appreciate the conditions because I now watch the games on the TV though - should I dismiss the experience gained from 30+ years of watching Burnley play in all sorts of conditions ? The rain today looked like a sprinkle compared to Sunderland away at Roker Park

All I'm saying is you can't judge how difficult the conditions were unless you were there and watching on television doesn't give you the same perspective. That's all. I've just seen that Dyche said this: "Probably in my time up here, that's as harsh conditions as I've seen"

[Jamesy]

The only problem for our club and fine manager - are the fans. Like those posting in here

Terrible reading this. We have crap fans now. We didn't use to have

Nonsense.

[Leisure]

Dyche won't get sacked, he won't change formation or tactics. The threat of relegation is now pretty high.

Going down and having a clear out may be a blessing in disguise.
Unfortunately Dyche will still continue with his system , even with new players in a different league.

The most telling & disappointing aspect of his recent tenure is the signing of WW. We had the choice of buying a young player for the future, a fast player or a skilful player. Dyche chose the tallest player he could find in Europe.

Who were these 'young player', 'fast player' and 'skilful player'?

[Claret]

Dyche is a damn good manager.

[Vegas Claret]

All I'm saying is you can't judge how difficult the conditions were unless you were there and watching on television doesn't give you the same perspective. That's all. I've just seen that Dyche said this: "Probably in my time up here, that's as harsh conditions as I've seen"

I fully appreciate what you are trying to say, I disagree but that's by the by. I'll remind you, Dyche and Woan have preached they work in a no excuse environment, it's part of the culture they have created - yet tonight, after another woeful performance they are blaming the weather. It's every bit as bad as Arteta blaming the length of grass.

Either way, let's hope by some miracle we can start pulling rabbits out of hats, they've put a lot of work into staying up over the years and it seems to be ending with a whimper.

[Ric_C]

Just a note on the conditions. In the warm up, Bardsley was receiving passes and then flicking the ball up for people to volley in turn. He must have been flicking the ball between 3-8 ft in the air. The wind was actually altering the flight of the ball even at that low level.

I know we were ****, but we've had these awful conditions before and played equally as ****. I just don't think they suits a team that in general plays a lot of direct balls.

[Somethingfishy]

Dyche won't get sacked, he won't change formation or tactics. The threat of relegation is now pretty high.

Going down and having a clear out may be a blessing in disguise.
Unfortunately Dyche will still continue with his system , even with new players in a different league.

The most telling & disappointing aspect of his recent tenure is the signing of WW. We had the choice of buying a young player for the future, a fast player or a skilful player. Dyche chose the tallest player he could find in Europe.

I doubt very much despite being a Dyche type player that Dyche was the driving force behind signing WW. He may have agreed with it once presented with him as an option but I don't think Dyche chose him. Like he didn't choose Cornet. He did choose Lennon x 2 and Stephens though. Go figure.
WW is one of the better strikers in Europe. To class him as just "tall" is a bit unfair.

The odd thing with Dyche is that our Prem football is different in style to our Championship football. I don't remember being bored to tears with our football in the Championship and I don't remember so many backwards passes and unwillingness to take anyone on. In his attempt to make us harder to beat with the better players we are facing he has literally killed our development footballing wise. I don't think he will convert back either.

[taio]

I fully appreciate what you are trying to say, I disagree but that's by the by. I'll remind you, Dyche and Woan have preached they work in a no excuse environment, it's part of the culture they have created - yet tonight, after another woeful performance they are blaming the weather. It's every bit as bad as Arteta blaming the length of grass.

Either way, let's hope by some miracle we can start pulling rabbits out of hats, they've put a lot of work into staying up over the years and it seems to be ending with a whimper.

Reality rather than excuse. Preached about an excuse culture - what have they said? I believe there's a huge difference between the conditions tonight and the length of the grass.

I agree we are more likely to be relegated than not

[JohnMcGreal]

There needs to be a serious discussion between the owners and the manager about next season. If Dyche still has the desire and the determination to rebuild this team and go for promotion, then he probably deserves that chance. I'm not as convinced the owners have that same stomach for championship football, mind.

[Vegas Claret]

Preached about an excuse culture - what have they said?

They've said it plenty of times that they work in a no excuse environment, I've lost count of the amount of times they've said it tbh. They didn't put an asterix on it and only apply it when it suits. They've got a job to do and they aren't doing it. Granted, it's difficult when when we have low finance, but again they have said on multiple occasions that they know what we are and there are still no excuses. I'm just using their own words to reinforce the point.

[Vegas Claret]

I agree we are more likely to be relegated than not

I genuinely thought we would comfortably win today (2-0) as the lads always seem to manage to pull something out of the bag - it's just not happening this season

[Swizzlestick]

Obviously the thread title is the usual melodramatic reaction after a disappointing result but things have gone very, very stale and, new contract or not, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s the start of murmurings in the board room. Again though, the lack of a centre midfield signing in yet another window was absolutely criminal.

[Somethingfishy]

To risk comparing real events with Football Manager....

You take over a team...assess their players and work out a formation and strategy that suits them. It works wonderfully and you sweep all before you and you are promoted. Then you realise that you need to tweak those tactics in the higher league as they don't work as well...and you keep tweaking and settle on a system that seems to work. It keeps you up anyway. Eventually even that doesn't work but the problem is you can't remember the settings of the original formation. you didn't save the tactics!

That is what has happened or indeed will happen to Dyche once we are relegated.

[arise_sir_charge]

I genuinely thought we would comfortably win today (2-0) as the lads always seem to manage to pull something out of the bag - it's just not happening this season

That’s because it’s the same old shite being played time after time, after time.

Today we’ve managed to not score against a keeper who was two years between clean sheets, a club that were 6 managers between clean sheets, we didn’t make him make a save, FFS! it’s an absolute embarrassment but hey, it was a bit wet and windy and we won a few games a few years back.

Too many people are buying the “we can’t compete” rhetoric, the reality is, we choose not too and don’t let anyone tell you differently!

He should go, he’s done a job, it’s gone, move on, I won’t hold my breath.

[CombatClaret]

Dyche isnt really the root of the problem. It's structurally ingrained in the league.

We're just at the end of the cycle for a club that's come up & doesn't have state level backing. To replace a team of once fresh players who got you promoted with new, younger, ready for the league players, is just too expensive for most. So the team that got you up gets old & stale compared to the rich teams who can buy world class or the new exciting teams coming up from underneath.

In two/three years it will be Brentford where we are are now. Couple years later it will be QPR or Huddersfield.

[KRBFC]

All I'm saying is you can't judge how difficult the conditions were unless you were there and watching on television doesn't give you the same perspective. That's all. I've just seen that Dyche said this: "Probably in my time up here, that's as harsh conditions as I've seen"

You're saying all this like we're Brazil with the ball when it's sunshine, we're f**king atrocious no matter the weather. I've never seen a side in all my time so poor with the ball and so static, I've watched football from all around the world too. You can excuse lack of ability in League Two, we've probably earnt £1bn in TV money and gone horrificly backwards

I have no idea why fans think we'll walk the Championship, losing has become a habit for far too long and we can't break a side down at all in open play. 1 Lennon goal from open play in our last 6 league games? I said at the start of the season, this isn't just some little blip and poor start, it's an absolute clear and obvious physical decline in the squad.

To me, this club looks like it's sleep walking to League One, similar to Charlton, Wigan, Bolton, Leeds, Sheff United, Sunderland to name a few. Sunderland were relegated with an old overpaid side, exactly what we have. I think fans are delusional to think we'll walk promotion, look at WBA and Sheff United. The relegation scars and shaking the losing feeling takes a big overhaul and long time to fix most of the time, particularly when the team is old as hell like ours. Reminder, our strongest side available lost at home to Huddersfield reserves without creating a sniff aside from a scrappy goal.

I'm not gonna say Dyche out but I think the whole thing needs severe radical change, the style of football is driving fans away from the game. Are fans prepared to watch this shite in the Championship if we're middle of the pack? the style/framework doesn't change with different players, we've all seen proof of that prior. Allardyce doesn't spend a few quid and transform into Pep.

Dyche's dinosaur transfer targets have seen us regress year on year, £20m outlay on a 29 year Rodriguez to replace an old Vokes instead of £15m outlay on 22 year old Watkins/Toney etc. We've spent so much on old players, the team is.... old.

442, doesn't work in the modern game. If it did, top sides in Europe would play it too.

The coaching, are these players getting better? Mcneil was an exciting attacking talent on his debut against Olympiakos, absolutely toasted Trent a couple of times early in his career, he's regressed badly. Playing secondary full back looks to have sucked ALL flair out of him, he had to run the entire length of the pitch at Arsenal with zero support to even get close to putting a cross in at Arsenal and had zero options so ended up just blasting it anywhere near goal. Last night Mcneil would pick the ball up at the half way line and he'd have to beat 2 players to even have the option of a simple pass inside.

It's 2022, we've earnt £1bn in TV income to be in this league and we're playing 34 year old Aaron Lennon and Dale Stephens in a 4 man midfield. There's only one man to blame for that, the man who wanted these players brought in and continues to play them.

[Woodleyclaret]

How anyone can judge our game on that .
The weather was awful and anyone who has played even at Sunday league level would agree it was nearly impossible to string decent moves together
Max had two good strikes and Wout looked a very good player
Some talk about a young striker instead ,we have Micheal Mellon who looks better all the time .Sean does need to shake up his selection and be prepared to gamble.

[KRBFC]

If we go down , we have an excellent chance of coming straight back with SD in charge.
Change the manager and the style of play and we will be in League 2 in three or four years

We really don't, we can't score goals from open play. Our best available 11 lost at home to Huddersfield reserves, if that isn't an indication of how poor we are right now then I don't know what is. We've got so many players who aren't good enough to mount a PL promotion push, you will see how poor this squad really is when these out of contract players leave (hopefully) and the majority end up at Fleetwood.

Which Championship side pushing for promotion does Westwood, Pieters, Lennon, Cork, Stephens, Gudmundsson, Rodriguez get into? right now, not Rodriguez 4 years ago at WBA. These are players heavily featuring in a PL side, the majority are League One standard players, one last hurrah.

The real worry is with the debt, we sell the good players (Cornet, Taylor, Mcneil) and resign the old timers to new deals to save money. Then we are in serious serious trouble of following the Blackburn/Sunderland/Charlton path of serious decline and sleep walking into League One. Dyche isn't capable of putting together a young team and coaching them into an exciting fluid team, it's not his style of doing things.

[beddie]

Pace won’t sack Dyche nor should he. The problem we know is deep rooted. This summer will require a big shake up and a re build, whatever division we’re in. Dyche deserves the opportunity imo to carry that out.

[jojomk1]

Dyche isn't capable of putting together a young team and coaching them into an exciting fluid team, it's not his style of doing things.

So few words say so much

[taio]

You're saying all this like we're Brazil with the ball when it's sunshine, we're f**king atrocious no matter the weather. I've never seen a side in all my time so poor with the ball and so static, I've watched football from all around the world too. You can excuse lack of ability in League Two, we've probably earnt £1bn in TV money and gone horrificly backwards

I have no idea why fans think we'll walk the Championship, losing has become a habit for far too long and we can't break a side down at all in open play. 1 Lennon goal from open play in our last 6 league games? I said at the start of the season, this isn't just some little blip and poor start, it's an absolute clear and obvious physical decline in the squad.

To me, this club looks like it's sleep walking to League One, similar to Charlton, Wigan, Bolton, Leeds, Sheff United, Sunderland to name a few. Sunderland were relegated with an old overpaid side, exactly what we have. I think fans are delusional to think we'll walk promotion, look at WBA and Sheff United. The relegation scars and shaking the losing feeling takes a big overhaul and long time to fix most of the time, particularly when the team is old as hell like ours. Reminder, our strongest side available lost at home to Huddersfield reserves without creating a sniff aside from a scrappy goal.

I'm not gonna say Dyche out but I think the whole thing needs severe radical change, the style of football is driving fans away from the game. Are fans prepared to watch this shite in the Championship if we're middle of the pack? the style/framework doesn't change with different players, we've all seen proof of that prior. Allardyce doesn't spend a few quid and transform into Pep.

Dyche's dinosaur transfer targets have seen us regress year on year, £20m outlay on a 29 year Rodriguez to replace an old Vokes instead of £15m outlay on 22 year old Watkins/Toney etc. We've spent so much on old players, the team is.... old.

442, doesn't work in the modern game. If it did, top sides in Europe would play it too.

The coaching, are these players getting better? Mcneil was an exciting attacking talent on his debut against Olympiakos, absolutely toasted Trent a couple of times early in his career, he's regressed badly. Playing secondary full back looks to have sucked ALL flair out of him, he had to run the entire length of the pitch at Arsenal with zero support to even get close to putting a cross in at Arsenal and had zero options so ended up just blasting it anywhere near goal. Last night Mcneil would pick the ball up at the half way line and he'd have to beat 2 players to even have the option of a simple pass inside.

It's 2022, we've earnt £1bn in TV income to be in this league and we're playing 34 year old Aaron Lennon and Dale Stephens in a 4 man midfield. There's only one man to blame for that, the man who wanted these players brought in and continues to play them.

I've suggested no such thing. And I have specifically referred to judging last night's game on its own merits. I don't know why you've chosen my post to go on such a rant or if you feel so strongly about Dyche why you still want him here - you've been absolutely damning of him and rarely have a good word to say about him more generally.

[RVclaret]

Pace won’t sack Dyche nor should he. The problem we know is deep rooted. This summer will require a big shake up and a re build, whatever division we’re in. Dyche deserves the opportunity imo to carry that out.

The rebuild will probably involve Dyche trying to renew the contracts of all the over 30s who are out of contract. Not even kidding.

[beddie]

The rebuild will probably involve Dyche trying to renew the contracts of all the over 30s who are out of contract. Not even kidding.

I really don’t see that to be honest, especially Pace.

[KRBFC]

I've suggested no such thing. And I have specifically referred to judging last night's game on its own merits. I don't know why you've chosen my post to go on such a rant or if you feel so strongly about Dyche why you still want him here - you've been absolutely damning of him and rarely have a good word to say about him more generally.

You were blaming the weather for the performance, the weather isn't the issue. I think Dyche has earnt the right to see out the season. Your last sentence is nonsense, stemming from criticising the style of play and wanting Marco Silva in 4 years ago.

[JohnDearyMe]

I'm not in the camp of getting shut of Dyche (yet) but we're absolutely shite at the minute and haven't progressed as a team for the full length of our time being in the Premier League,

That can't be right. We clearly progressed as a team under Dyche in the top-flight as evidenced by qualifying for Europe the season after avoiding relegation (albeit reasonably comfortably). We've definitely regressed a lot in the last couple of seasons but you can't paint our whole time in the Premier League in that way surely?

[taio]

You were blaming the weather for the performance, the weather isn't the issue. I think Dyche has earnt the right to see out the season. Your last sentence is nonsense, stemming from criticising the style of play and wanting Marco Silva in 4 years ago.

Yes the weather played a big part in our performance. You'd have to be stupid not to think that. That doesn't mean I think that we play like Brazil the rest of the time. That would be stupid too.

I wasn't referring to four years ago when you acted like a petulant tantrum throwing child back then too. I was referring to recently and specifically your above post.

[RVclaret]

Are there any other ‘Graham Potter’ type managers available right now who can freshen things up, promote youth and put an end to this rancid style of football?

Steve Cooper has done it (albeit at Champ level) for Forest who were 2nd bottom after 7 games under the dinosaur Hughton, he’s completely changed their approach and they now sit 1 point off the play offs.

Problem is, the new manager betting list at West Brom was the same old washed out names so I’m not sure there is, unless we went foreign.

At least having a new manager in now would allow him to work with Pace & co to identify summer targets for the rebuild.

[KRBFC]

That can't be right. We clearly progressed as a team under Dyche in the top-flight as evidenced by qualifying for Europe the season after avoiding relegation (albeit reasonably comfortably). We've definitely regressed a lot in the last couple of seasons but you can't paint our whole time in the Premier League in that way surely?

£1bn income later, this team is arguably worse than the side that got relegated 8 years ago with Trippier and Ings.

[warksclaret]

The conditions were bad, but despite that Watford were the better team. With better conditions they would probably have stolen all three points

[JohnDearyMe]

£1bn income later, this team is arguably worse than the side that got relegated 8 years ago with Trippier and Ings.

Are you saying that there was zero element of progression in the top flight under Dyche at all at any time?

[Les Lawrence]

Time for a change

[BleedingClaret]

I played enough games and have been to enough games to know how it can affect play, not sure why you are suggesting I can't appreciate the conditions because I now watch the games on the TV though - should I dismiss the experience gained from 30+ years of watching Burnley play in all sorts of conditions ? The rain today looked like a sprinkle compared to Sunderland away at Roker Park

Wasn’t the rain pal although that obviously added to it, it was the wind.
The swirling nature of it meant that you couldn’t even really judge it at one point I thought they were going to have to have a player holding the ball at free kicks and corners like in Rugby
Weghorst looked like he was heading the ball upwards all the time but I think flick ons were just being took by the wind

[BleedingClaret]

£1bn income later, this team is arguably worse than the side that got relegated 8 years ago with Trippier and Ings.

Agree with your first point in the night
But the conditions affected our basic long ball game more than their short on the deck passing game

[Boss Hogg]

The only problem for our club and fine manager - are the fans. Like those posting in here

Terrible reading this. We have crap fans now. We didn't use to have

No we don’t. We have lots of fans, some old and some new, with different views and some of which you don’t like. The football and tactics this season have been ‘crap’ and I’m saying this having watched the ‘crap’ in Division 4 when 2,000 were on the match. We are really dull and predictable and becoming other fans least favourite team and not Pace’s desired favourite underdog/ other team. Yesterday’s conditions are apalling but every game there’s some sort of excuse. If it was dry and sunny we wouldn’t have looked like scoring/ winning.

[BleedingClaret]

Im not his greatest fan, never have been
BUT
He’s more than earned his right to get the full 38 games of this season that he’s started as manager and he’s the only manager to keep us in the premier league
AND
he has also for me earned the right for another crack at the championship as the only manager that’s got us automatically promoted from the championship to the premier league and he’s done it twice
Careful what you wish for

[boatshed bill]

Agree with your first point in the night
But the conditions affected our basic long ball game more than their short on the deck passing game

It's no excuse. These are highly paid professionals who should be able to adapt to the conditions.
even schoolkids know to keep the ball down in strong winds.

[Lancasterclaret]

Only five and half pages of unreadable guff?

Come on UTC, you are letting the side down here!

[KRBFC]

Are you saying that there was zero element of progression in the top flight under Dyche at all at any time?

We've had success, long term the team hasn't improved at all though. The income has gone up and up, the quality in the team has gone down. Dyche's recruitment hasn't been good enough i'm afraid and we've given too many contracts out to players who should've been replaced.

[Newcastleclaret93]

What would be the point in sacking Dyche?

We have no money and if we are honest pep or mourinho couldnt get a beat out of this squad.

Best to let Dyche have the season and try to form some kind of rebuild in the summer. How easy that will be with our finance situation is another matter.

[JohnDearyMe]

We've had success, long term the team hasn't improved at all though. The income has gone up and up, the quality in the team has gone down. Dyche's recruitment hasn't been good enough i'm afraid and we've given too many contracts out to players who should've been replaced.

I agree, quality has clearly gone down and recruitment has been poor for a number of years. The claim i was addressing above was that we've never progressed at all in the Premier League when we clearly did, especially around Defour's time.

[BleedingClaret]

It's no excuse. These are highly paid professionals who should be able to adapt to the conditions.
even schoolkids know to keep the ball down in strong winds.

Yeah you’re right that we should have adapted our game and maybe we tried to but then as the game gets going players revert to type

[Rombald]

Only five and half pages of unreadable guff?

Come on UTC, you are letting the side down here!

To be fair there are loads of other pages of nonsense to go alongside this. Wout has been written off, too slow, no touch. Roberts written off for a poor long throw. I've probably missed many more.

[Lancasterclaret]

To be fair there are loads of other pages of nonsense to go alongside this. Wout has been written off, too slow, no touch. Roberts written off for a poor long throw. I've probably missed many more.

The desire of the same sort of posters to start numerous threads having a go at everything is more than a little weird

Still, at least on here they are not bothering anyone really so mark that one down as a plus

[ClaretMov]

I would hope Pace put a relegation clause in Dyche's contract like the players have, when we get relegated surley his wage half's so in the summer get rid at half the compensation price and along with all the player's out of contract we rebuild a new team around the few players we keep with a new manager, they take a season to bed in and the season after that we go for promotion.

The alternative is we keep Dyche because we keep getting told "he's the man to get us out of the championship he's done it before" and then once we're back in the premier league the same old crap will repeat itself and we're back to square one again.

Dyche is a fantastic Championship manager but he's found his level, he doesn't work in the premier league.

[Lancasterclaret]

I would hope Pace put a relegation clause in Dyche's contract like the players have, when we get relegated surley his wage half's so in the summer get rid at half the compensation price and along with all the player's out of contract we rebuild a new team around the few players we keep with a new manager, they take a season to bed in and the season after that we go for promotion.

The alternative is we keep Dyche because we keep getting told "he's the man to get us out of the championship he's done it before" and then once we're back in the premier league the same old crap will repeat itself and we're back to square one again.

Dyche is a fantastic Championship manager but he's found his level, he doesn't work in the premier league.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaha!

*six straight years in the premier league*

hahahahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahahaha!

Seriously mate, are you okay?

[Spijed]

Dyche is a fantastic Championship manager but he's found his level, he doesn't work in the premier league.

I'd say it's the first season it hasn't worked, as it has quite successfully for the previous five.

[ClaretMov]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaha!

*six straight years in the premier league*

hahahahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahahaha!

Seriously mate, are you okay?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaha!

*That's in the past, this is now*

hahahahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahahaha!

WAKE THE **** UP

[taio]

I would hope Pace put a relegation clause in Dyche's contract like the players have, when we get relegated surley his wage half's so in the summer get rid at half the compensation price and along with all the player's out of contract we rebuild a new team around the few players we keep with a new manager, they take a season to bed in and the season after that we go for promotion.

The alternative is we keep Dyche because we keep getting told "he's the man to get us out of the championship he's done it before" and then once we're back in the premier league the same old crap will repeat itself and we're back to square one again.

Dyche is a fantastic Championship manager but he's found his level, he doesn't work in the premier league.

Incredible that you think Dyche hasn't proven to be a PL manager and he doesn't work in the PL after six seasons in the PL, which surely has surpassed anyone's realistic expectations. We'll probably go down this season but he's certainly exceeded my expectations.