Dwight McNeil

[randomclaret2]

McNeil is one of a group of undroppable players we have.If he's fit he plays, come what may. And some expressed surprise when Wood talked about being in his comfort zone

[CoolClaret]

Watch the match highlights and watch when Weghorst has his chance - look at what Dwight is doing, walking forward towards the box, why isn’t he getting stuck in there or offering an option making a marauding run forward?

Maybe he always gets the ball in ‘bad positions’ because he doesn’t make decent runs to get the ball in good positions or he doesn’t take up good positions?

All the best players find space where others don’t - I’m not buying this excuse that he’s being doubled up he simply needs some time on the bench and to come on as an impact player to get some form back - IMO

[Colburn_Claret]

Dwight, like the rest of the team, is far too rigid. Only Max seems to move with freedom.

As a team we move the ball far too slowly.
As a rule, the ball can move faster than any player, and the mind can move faster than the ball.
When we have players who need 2 or 3 touches to control a ball, then need time to decide how to use it when they receive it, we have a massive problem.
It needs players with a lot more nous, and self confidence, not just in the middle of the pitch, but all over.

I also think we need to change the coaching. It's almost a Silverwood scenario, where everyone can see what the problems are, but the man in charge. The line up changes, but the tactics and formation don't. Too slow, too negative, too cautious.
I still believe, despite the lack of a decent midfielder, that we have a squad capable of winning matches, but only if SD chucks away the blueprint and starts afresh.

[BurnleyFC]

I’m a huge McNeil fan but his confidence is shot and he hasn’t offered anywhere near enough this season.

[ksrclaret]

I disagree with this. He's unorthodox and maybe a little unconventional for a winger but the Dwight from two seasons ago was delivering the goods week after week as a left winger. His crossing was sublime.
He's certainly not a right winger, he's too left footed and I equally think that will hold him back in the centre.
It moves me to my next point, I actually think he has been asked to come inside more and this is why he is seeming less effective. Most games this season Taylor has been the one getting down the line and Dwight has dropped inside. He's appeared to check his runs at times and come back for safe passes inside. People have thrown comments around saying he's not trying but in reality it looks like he's following instructions. He looked at his most natural getting down the left and swinging a ball in, there's something robotic about his performances right now.
All this clamour for him to play in the middle, I just wish we'd have him back hugging the left hand side and making runs down the wing.

I do get what you mean and he was good on the left wing during his first couple of years, but even then I always read his skillset as being suited to playing more of an inside role. I'm not comparing the players like for like, but he's always reminded me of a David Silva/ Bernardo Silva type whose close touch and technique makes them absolutely perfect for an attacking midfield role, opening things up.

With regards to McNeil coming inside, Dyche himself said yesterday that he wasn't doing that under instruction, he was doing so because the team wasn't clicking properly. That again shows that this is a player whose natural instincts are to come into the middle of the pitch and to try and manipulate the ball from the centre.

Sadly, unless Dyche changes his system, or rather slightly tweaks it away from his horrible 442 to a more fluid 451, I doubt we'll see any further progress from McNeil. In fact, I think we'll see more regression.

[warksclaret]

What was obvious last night is that McNeil and Taylor have a good understanding and link up well. Saw no synergy with Pieters and McNeil, and then he moved to the right where he has hardly played alongside Roberts

[Elizabeth]

I’d rather have McNeil in the team to help us score not to help us keep clean sheets.
Maybe there is a balance somewhere but Dyche needs to find it quick. I don’t think Dyche allows his players to think too much for themselves whatever he says

[Blatherwickstattoo]

A player doesn’t stop being a decent player all of a sudden. He’s being told not to attack and retain possession by passing backwards. It’s all down to Dyche. Negative, boring, slow, anti football. When we sing that 4 more years song i cringe

[burnleymik]

He is top 8 in the Premier League for tackles and for me this speaks volumes. He is just far too deep, far too often to be an effective creative outlet for the team.

People used to complain he was awful at defending and not tracking back enough, now that's pretty much all he does and the most frustrating thing is when he picks up the ball, he no longer runs at players and takes them on, something he was so good at, instead he turns and makes the simple pass.

We need to get him running at players again, whipping balls in from impossible angles at the byline. I still think he has that something special, but we have to get the negativity out of him and bring that spark back.

[Lew200100]

Jamesy, I was being sarcastic. We have turned a bright young attacking talent into a lad who doesn’t know what his role is; too scared to go forward in case he loses it and not good at defending. Our defensive coaching tactics are strangling the life out of the poor lad.

Absolute utter tripe. It isn’t the coaching that is the problem McNeil has caused his own issue which is he only has one foot. When he came on the scene teams hadn’t got used to him. Now any average full back would have him in there pocket. When he cuts inside has defenders won’t allow him down the outside he can only go sideways or backwards.

If you think that’s a coaching problem you need to give your head a wobble. As for tracking back I’d rather not comment as it’s terrible. And last but not least looks very one paced no change of pace who’s fault is that surely he needs to look at his self as his fitness as always been lacking.

[Andreshotboots]

He's still a young man and having a bad season, it's as simple as that. He will come good again. Kane is having a poor season at Spurs but any club in the land would want him.

My point is even the best can have bad seasons.

[FeedTheArf]

He's still a young man and having a bad season, it's as simple as that. He will come good again. Kane is having a poor season at Spurs but any club in the land would want him.

My point is even the best can have bad seasons.

This. He hasn’t become a bad player overnight. If we had more wingers available, ideally, you’d take him out of the team for a few games. As we don’t have any other options he has to play through the bad patch. Poor kid looks devoid of confidence. Hopefully he can pick up soon.

[jojomk1]

There is a top player in there and we have seen what Dwight is capable of over a couple of years resulting in international honours
Unfortunately, any semblance of attacking and flair are being slowly knocked out of him by a manager who is becoming so tactically negative
It's not that long ago that Dwight was being chased by a number of top clubs and his father, quite rightly at the time, suggested he would be better staying at Burnley to get regular game time to improve even further
I think that opinion may well change this summer if teams show any interest in him
It can clearly be seen that Cornet is much more adept with his right foot than McNeil, evidenced by his shot on Sat that Foster saved well
So why, when we change strikers, does Dyche bring McNeil over to the RHS rather than Cornet
Just another example of his flawed thinking negatively affecting the team balance

[JohnMcGreal]

He's obviously got talent but there's no denying he looks a shadow of his former self and has done for a while now.

He seems to have lost something, whether it's a bit of pace or confidence, I don't know.

We need to try and get him playing to his strengths again down the left side, because he's a big asset when he's on form. One of the few players we have who can actually beat a man and create something.

[jedi_master]

I don't know if there will be takers for Dwight when we get relegated on the form of this season, and that might be a good thing for him.

I think a season in the Championship with us where he can hopefully get his confidence back as an ATTACKING player is exactly what he needs. When did he last score a goal? When did he last a whip a cross with pace in (something he was unbelievable at for the first 18 months he was in the first team)?

I am a huge fan of the player he looked like he was becoming, but his performance against Watford was unacceptable.

[JohnMcGreal]

I think his last goal was his cracker at Everton, probably about a year ago?

[Ipreferaflan]

Decent player but vastly overrated - he can have moments of intelligent play but he lacks pace and ability to beat men in tight spaces. Top this with a player clearly lacking in confidence and he's totally ineffective at the minute. Also agree regarding his reluctance to make intense runs off the ball - seems to spend a lot of time head down, shoulders slumped and being reactive rather than proactive.

[ClaretMov]

He's on the wrong wing, no goals and 1 assist all season tells you that.

[claret2018]

Erm he absolutely has become a bad footballer overnight.

The question is can he become a good one again? I think he can but probably not in this team.

[Burnley Ace]

His career will follow the likes of Tom Ince, Chris Eagles and Luke Chadwick. Started really well with high expectations but never managed to make the step up from promising.

[Cirrus_Minor]

I think he is playing a bit too deep and restricted from attacking from the left wing. Probably being forced back a bit because we seem to have lost the hold up play, that we used to be quite good at, that allowed him to get forward. Probably missing Barnes (when he was on form) with Wood. I am not sure if this is Cornet’s forte and time will tell with Weghorst.

[claretspice]

For the most part this season, I think he's done fine. I know statistics aren't everything, but his statistics are generally very good - except perhaps for the most important: goals and assists. But they do show that (a) he's involved a lot and trying to make things happen, (b) he's working very hard (ground covered, tackles and interceptions made, etc.), and (c) he's still showing himself to be a technically very fine footballer because his pass completion rate, long and short, is excellent. For me, that backs up what I see on the pitch.

So I think a lot of the criticism of him on here is way, way, way over the top - and I think a lot of people are overcomplicating this. He's not lazy, or entitled - or at least I don't see any evidence that he is. He's not getting the attacking instinct coached out to him. But he's just going through a spell most young players go through. He's a marked man now, and he's found it harder to find time and space on the pitch. That is compounded by the fact I suspect he feels the pressure of knowing he's our best technical footballer and main creative outlet. And I think as a result he's trying a bit too hard at times, things aren't quite going for him as a result, and he's losing confidence.

That's a tricky cycle to get out of and we've probably all got a role to play in supporting him through it. I do worry that the pressure of our situation and the expectation on him is becoming a huge burden. He's lost a bit of the instinctive spark and freedom that he had when he first burst onto the scene and stuff just happened for him. He's got grown-up responsibility now and it takes plenty of kids a while to get the balance right.

I also don't think we're helping him by playing him wide. In my opinion, he's a central midfielder. his greatest assets are his ability to receive the ball in tight areas and keep it and move it on, and his range of passing. He'd probably be at his best on the left of a central midfield 3, but in our system I'd happily slot him in as a 10, with Cornet and someone else wide. On the left, he's now invariably double marked, and teams know to drop off him just far enough to block the cross and avoid him spinning beyond them, because whilst he's quick he's not lightening fast. That's why he's tended to check back inside more.

But above all else, he needs our support right now. He's our best technician, and we'll need him to find some form to get out of the hole we're in. Let's back him.

[Targetman]

Erm he absolutely has become a bad footballer overnight.

The question is can he become a good one again? I think he can but probably not in this team.

Pity you won't be able to track any of his possible progress by watching him at the Turf anymore.
Maybe keep up to speed with him by watching on tv or on an illegal stream?

[claret2018]

Pity you won't be able to track any of his possible progress by watching him at the Turf anymore.
Maybe keep up to speed with him by watching on tv or on an illegal stream?

Yep! At least watching a stream i can be doing something else at the same time.

[claretspice]

For the most part this season, I think he's done fine. I know statistics aren't everything, but his statistics are generally very good - except perhaps for the most important: goals and assists. But they do show that (a) he's involved a lot and trying to make things happen, (b) he's working very hard (ground covered, tackles and interceptions made, etc.), and (c) he's still showing himself to be a technically very fine footballer because his pass completion rate, long and short, is excellent. For me, that backs up what I see on the pitch.

So I think a lot of the criticism of him on here is way, way, way over the top - and I think a lot of people are overcomplicating this. He's not lazy, or entitled - or at least I don't see any evidence that he is. He's not getting the attacking instinct coached out to him. But he's just going through a spell most young players go through. He's a marked man now, and he's found it harder to find time and space on the pitch. That is compounded by the fact I suspect he feels the pressure of knowing he's our best technical footballer and main creative outlet. And I think as a result he's trying a bit too hard at times, things aren't quite going for him as a result, and he's losing confidence.

That's a tricky cycle to get out of and we've probably all got a role to play in supporting him through it. I do worry that the pressure of our situation and the expectation on him is becoming a huge burden. He's lost a bit of the instinctive spark and freedom that he had when he first burst onto the scene and stuff just happened for him. He's got grown-up responsibility now and it takes plenty of kids a while to get the balance right.

I also don't think we're helping him by playing him wide. In my opinion, he's a central midfielder. his greatest assets are his ability to receive the ball in tight areas and keep it and move it on, and his range of passing. He'd probably be at his best on the left of a central midfield 3, but in our system I'd happily slot him in as a 10, with Cornet and someone else wide. On the left, he's now invariably double marked, and teams know to drop off him just far enough to block the cross and avoid him spinning beyond them, because whilst he's quick he's not lightening fast. That's why he's tended to check back inside more.

But above all else, he needs our support right now. He's our best technician, and we'll need him to find some form to get out of the hole we're in. Let's back him.

One additional point, perhaps in support of the idea of him coming centrally: at times I think he's becoming a bogeyman for the less visible shortcomings of others, particularly our central midfielders. We seem to have got into this structure of sticking all our technically gifted players either on the left wing or up front, without a discernible plan to get them them good quality ball in those areas. We don't manipulate the ball well enough in central areas to allow those players to find pockets of space where they can get on the ball and hurt opponents. The number of times Dwight makes an intelligent run, would be in acres of space, but then has to retreat because we can't/don't get the ball to him, is desperately frustrating, and you can see him throw his arms up in annoyance. Perhaps he should at times channel that better, but I think he needs to be cut some slack.

[Conroysleftfoot]

For the most part this season, I think he's done fine. I know statistics aren't everything, but his statistics are generally very good - except perhaps for the most important: goals and assists. But they do show that (a) he's involved a lot and trying to make things happen, (b) he's working very hard (ground covered, tackles and interceptions made, etc.), and (c) he's still showing himself to be a technically very fine footballer because his pass completion rate, long and short, is excellent. For me, that backs up what I see on the pitch.

So I think a lot of the criticism of him on here is way, way, way over the top - and I think a lot of people are overcomplicating this. He's not lazy, or entitled - or at least I don't see any evidence that he is. He's not getting the attacking instinct coached out to him. But he's just going through a spell most young players go through. He's a marked man now, and he's found it harder to find time and space on the pitch. That is compounded by the fact I suspect he feels the pressure of knowing he's our best technical footballer and main creative outlet. And I think as a result he's trying a bit too hard at times, things aren't quite going for him as a result, and he's losing confidence.

That's a tricky cycle to get out of and we've probably all got a role to play in supporting him through it. I do worry that the pressure of our situation and the expectation on him is becoming a huge burden. He's lost a bit of the instinctive spark and freedom that he had when he first burst onto the scene and stuff just happened for him. He's got grown-up responsibility now and it takes plenty of kids a while to get the balance right.

I also don't think we're helping him by playing him wide. In my opinion, he's a central midfielder. his greatest assets are his ability to receive the ball in tight areas and keep it and move it on, and his range of passing. He'd probably be at his best on the left of a central midfield 3, but in our system I'd happily slot him in as a 10, with Cornet and someone else wide. On the left, he's now invariably double marked, and teams know to drop off him just far enough to block the cross and avoid him spinning beyond them, because whilst he's quick he's not lightening fast. That's why he's tended to check back inside more.

But above all else, he needs our support right now. He's our best technician, and we'll need him to find some form to get out of the hole we're in. Let's back him.

Thanks for posting this, I was going to post something similar. However, I'm still not sure about him playing centrally, I think he is an excellent crosser of the ball.

[claretspice]

Thanks for posting this, I was going to post something similar. However, I'm still not sure about him playing centrally, I think he is an excellent crosser of the ball.

So do I, although at the minute he's snatching at opportunities a bit and as I've observed, teams tend to have a plan to block his attempts to cross. So we need to get him space to cross.

14 years or so ago, Owen Coyle had a not dissimilar player with a similar challenge. He moved Wade Elliott inside but encouraged him to drift wide to find opportunities to get crosses in. It worked a treat. Currently, we routinely try and get Westwood into space for a ball laid back so he can swing a cross in. I don't see why McNeil be used similarly - so we might actually get more opportunities for him to cross effectively if he's starting in a central area with licence to roam. With Cornet effective at getting into the box from wide, and Brownhill who has an ability to make third man runs into the box that I think we currently under-exploit, I've long thought it would help us add more variety to our attack, and become a little bit less rigid.

[RVclaret]

Great post as always claretspice, one of a handful of posters on here who actually knows their football and posts I pay attention to.

[RVclaret]

Thanks for posting this, I was going to post something similar. However, I'm still not sure about him playing centrally, I think he is an excellent crosser of the ball.

It doesn’t stop him crossing the ball. In fact, I reckon he’d actually find more and better space from good angles to cross from, both left and right. KDB still uses his incredible crossing ability from playing as an 8 in the ‘mezzalla’ role for City. I think in our system McNeil should be given a go in the 10, he’s played it a few times (Palace away springs to mind) and ran the game. Seem to recall him playing it well at City away once too.

[CoolClaret]

One additional point, perhaps in support of the idea of him coming centrally: at times I think he's becoming a bogeyman for the less visible shortcomings of others, particularly our central midfielders. We seem to have got into this structure of sticking all our technically gifted players either on the left wing or up front, without a discernible plan to get them them good quality ball in those areas. We don't manipulate the ball well enough in central areas to allow those players to find pockets of space where they can get on the ball and hurt opponents. The number of times Dwight makes an intelligent run, would be in acres of space, but then has to retreat because we can't/don't get the ball to him, is desperately frustrating, and you can see him throw his arms up in annoyance. Perhaps he should at times channel that better, but I think he needs to be cut some slack.

Genuinely baffled how you can watch Dwight McNeil and think he’s the next coming of Riquelme - utterly bizarre

[claretspice]

Genuinely baffled how you can watch Dwight McNeil and think he’s the next coming of Riquelme - utterly bizarre

Constructive.

[CoolClaret]

If anyone should play #10 it’s Vydra because that’s his actual position - has two feet, great acceleration, agility and movement albeit a poor finisher.

Dinosaur Dyche loves his two banks of four to ensure that we remain tight without the ball but it’s clearly not working - will he play someone to exploit areas of space? Who knows… if he does I don’t think McNeil will find success there - he’s too limited IMO

[CoolClaret]

Constructive.

Mate he cannot go the other way around a player, and pulls left because he is so badly one footed.

I’ll give him playing as an #8 LCM in a 4-3-3 at a push but no way as an out and out #10

A midfield trio of:
————-Stephens/Westy
———Brownhill
——————————-McNeil

Could potentially - we have gone to that a few times such as Brighton away and Villa away to rescue points - it was Hendrick playing where Brownhill would be playing.

However a #10 is different kettle of fish

[RVclaret]

Mate he cannot go the other way around a player, and pulls left because he is so badly one footed.

I’ll give him playing as an #8 LCM in a 4-3-3 at a push but no way as an out and out #10

A midfield trio of:
————-Stephens/Westy
———Brownhill
——————————-McNeil

Could potentially - we have gone to that a few times such as Brighton away and Villa away to rescue points - it was Hendrick playing where Brownhill would be playing.

However a #10 is different kettle of fish

He played as a 10 at Palace away a season or 2 ago and ran the game (we won 1-0 thanks to a Mee header). Hasn’t played there since bizarrely.

[Lancasterclaret]

I have to be honest, I really don't see how people can't get that without McNeil we just don't have anyone who can retain possession in a tight space, run with the ball surrounded by the press, and he deserves a lot more support than he gets on here.

There are some very sensible posters happy to post about his attitude for example, and I've not seen that, and the stats don't back that up

I guess people are just annoyed at where we are and how we just are not clicking and blaming it on the players that they might not be that fond of

[KRBFC]

Let me repost somebody elses statistic (can't find the original poster or I'd quote him/her). Please, read this carefully and let it truly sink in....


DWIGHT MCNEIL
IS IN
THE TOP 10 (8TH IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE)
FOR
TACKLES MADE.


An absolutely incredible statistic and shows exactly the problem with Dwight in this team, he's being used all wrong.

[RVclaret]

Let me repost somebody elses statistic (can't find the original poster or I'd quote him/her). Please, read this carefully and let it truly sink in....


DWIGHT MCNEIL
IS IN
THE TOP 10 (8TH IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE)
FOR
TACKLES MADE.


An absolutely incredible statistic and shows exactly the problem with Dwight in this team, he's being used all wrong.

It was me, I just found the stat again too (it was taken from just after Christmas 2021 so there has been a few more games since but should be more or less the same).

[quoonbeatz]

Good stat for those questioning his attitude.

[Rileybobs]

It was me, I just found the stat again too (it was taken from just after Christmas 2021 so there has been a few more games since but should be more or less the same).

Kind of dispels the idea that he’s being used wrong when he’s in the same company as Gallagher and McGinn.

[Rileybobs]

Kind of dispels the idea that he’s being used wrong when he’s in the same company as Gallagher and McGinn.

I should have said it dispels the idea that the tackle statistic proves that he’s being used wrong.

[Elizabeth]

Clearly we are not getting the best of McNeil. That needs to change and only one person can do that and he’s the manager.

[boatshed bill]

Clearly we are not getting the best of McNeil. That needs to change and only one person can do that and he’s the manager.

it strikes me we are getting the best out of him as a ball-winner (successful tackles) at the expense of his chance creation.

[evensteadiereddie]

Kind of dispels the idea that he’s being used wrong when he’s in the same company as Gallagher and McGinn.

Exactly.

[evensteadiereddie]

it strikes me we are getting the best out of him as a ball-winner (successful tackles) at the expense of his chance creation.

There's a reason for that and it was pointed out earlier : a weak midfield that cannot create enough openings.

[Elizabeth]

it strikes me we are getting the best out of him as a ball-winner (successful tackles) at the expense of his chance creation.

He’s created many chances and had shots before from a wide position with more or less the same midfield partners. I believe he can do it again with the right encouragement from the manager.
In my opinion moving him to a central position is passing the buck

[elwaclaret]

Watch the match highlights and watch when Weghorst has his chance - look at what Dwight is doing, walking forward towards the box, why isn’t he getting stuck in there or offering an option making a marauding run forward?

Maybe he always gets the ball in ‘bad positions’ because he doesn’t make decent runs to get the ball in good positions or he doesn’t take up good positions?

All the best players find space where others don’t - I’m not buying this excuse that he’s being doubled up he simply needs some time on the bench and to come on as an impact player to get some form back - IMO

Think there is something in what you say. It is the fundamental difference of how people watch football. Some follow the ball, some look around the pitch. Not meaning to be insulting but ‘the ball wachers’ see him on the ball, he usually looks sprightly and threatening… while the others see that he is a) unfit, b) prone to zoning out c) plain bone ideal or d) struggling for confidence. I don’t know what he needs, but I hope the management do because he can be a liability without the ball at the moment, well for long time, in all honesty.

[boatshed bill]

There's a reason for that and it was pointed out earlier : a weak midfield that cannot create enough openings.

sorry, Eddie, i'm not really getting that.
McNeil is part of that midfield which is not creating openings, but he is winning the ball.

[IanMcL]

What was obvious last night is that McNeil and Taylor have a good understanding and link up well. Saw no synergy with Pieters and McNeil, and then he moved to the right where he has hardly played alongside Roberts

More a case of Oieters getting forward and finding himself alone.

[buzzclarets79]

Dwight often gets the ball between our 18yd box and the half way line, it be perfect for him if he was a rapid winger with pace, but that’s not his game, not saying he’s a slouch but not blessed with out & out pace, so he brings the ball forward as much as he can before being caught, and will turn to keep possession. He needs to get the ball much higher up the pitch to cause problems, he then can work his magic in and around the opposition box.
Do think he’s had the flair and positive forward thinking coached out of him, let him run free and be creative but that’s not part of the “framework”.

With a 6’6 striker in the box, crosses should be flying in from both sides

[Mattster]

He's a brilliant young player going through an indifferent spell of form (and he's not the only one) in a TEAM that's struggling and some fans are turning on him. He seems to be bearing the brunt of a not insignificant section of our suppport, it's pathetic behaviour IMO.

Same fans will be criticising his loyalty if he pushes for a move in the summer, personally I wouldn't blame him.