Russia Invades

[Burnley1989]

Lots of armchair Generals on here..........just sayin'.

Not really, folk are only posting links

[Jakubclaret]

Some people are just posting a load of nonsense twitter links with no real bearing on what’s actually happening, but like orsic should have been starting at selhurst park Saturday if that was to be believed.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

For christ sake that's tragic, sadly she's not been the 1st child to die in this madness, and I'm afraid to say she probably won't be the last.

What a cruel waste of life for one man's vanity project.

When will humans learn to live in peace and harmony, and stop all this futile killing.

You'd have hoped the lessons of the 2 world wars of the 20th century would have been learnt by now, but apparently not, and seemingly yet another generation will grow up in the shadow of war.

Exactly this. History teaches us nothing.

[Willieonthewing]

Some people are just posting a load of nonsense twitter links with no real bearing on what’s actually happening, but like orsic should have been starting at selhurst park Saturday if that was to be believed.

It's not just the posting of the links though that causes problems

Young children read this board, along with many who suffer from fragile mental health. The people who post what they think may, or may not happen in this conflict should perhaps give themselves a minute before posting, and just think how a 10yr old might react on reading their graphic details, or someone who after the last few years is just on the edge and really doesn't need that last little push.

[gandhisflipflop]

I really don’t think posting positions and information about allied transport is a good idea.

Careless talk and all that.

Best send a message to putin and tell his military to stop reading up the clarets

[karatekid]

Seventy Ukrainian soldiers killed in Russian missile strike on their barracks. Russian cowards.

[Lancasterclaret]

It's not just the posting of the links though that causes problems

Young children read this board, along with many who suffer from fragile mental health. The people who post what they think may, or may not happen in this conflict should perhaps give themselves a minute before posting, and just think how a 10yr old might react on reading their graphic details, or someone who after the last few years is just on the edge and really doesn't need that last little push.

Young people have mobile phones, and they certainly don't read this board!

The mental health thing is a very valid point though, but I would counter that by pretending its all going to go away or completely ignoring it is just as bad a way of dealing with this

Its absolutely terrible to see this, but unless you see it, then you don't know how bad it is, and I think that is an important point

[Willieonthewing]

I agree I wouldn’t post anything unverified & spurious unlike SOME on here, there’s no need to unsettle people or encourage depression with some peoples mental health, it’ll all sort itself out eventually just a question of how far it will go before it does.

I've no great problem with people posting facts, it's the language used when posters are guessing what could happen, far too graphic.

[Willieonthewing]

Young people have mobile phones, and they certainly don't read this board!

The mental health thing is a very valid point though, but I would counter that by pretending its all going to go away or completely ignoring it is just as bad a way of dealing with this

Its absolutely terrible to see this, but unless you see it, then you don't know how bad it is, and I think that is an important point

If you think young children don't read this board, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.... Have you not read the player rating thread after games

[Newcastleclaret93]

The story about Polina in the papers is heart breaking this morning

[fatboy47]

Internet "" discussions"" like this one proliferate across the world. Personally I'd prefer not to attach too much credence to this or any similar information source, relying as it does on a ragbag of questionable evidence from umpteen unverifiable social media sources.

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer to trust the BBC,with actual reporters, on the ground, researching, questioning, and putting out the most reliable picture they can.

John Simpson Clive Mirie Orla Guerrin (sp)...or social media sources where you try to filter out information from attention seeking garbage.?

[TheFamilyCat]

Some of the posted links which supposedly are factual are in fact highly contentious & disputable, unless you are actually there in person people are highly reliant on media information which can be conflicting.

I realise it doesn't come easy to you but stop being a dick.

The posters who are posting information on here are being very careful what they post, sticking to journalists they know are on the ground there and highlighting where information isn't yet confirmed.

I guess you have your reasons for trying to turn this thread into your usual dribble, but knock it off.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Some people are just posting a load of nonsense twitter links with no real bearing on what’s actually happening, but like orsic should have been starting at selhurst park Saturday if that was to be believed.

Have a day or week off will ya

[ksrclaret]

A few posters not liking what they read on this thread. They prefer to get their info elsewhere.

I can only imagine they are being forced to read and post on it.

Anyway, please keep on topic out of respect for those that find this thread useful and want it to remain open. It’s not asking a lot.

[TsarBomba]

Internet "" discussions"" like this one proliferate across the world. Personally I'd prefer not to attach too much credence to this or any similar information source, relying as it does on a ragbag of questionable evidence from umpteen unverifiable social media sources.

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer to trust the BBC,with actual reporters, on the ground, researching, questioning, and putting out the most reliable picture they can.

John Simpson Clive Mirie Orla Guerrin (sp)...or social media sources where you try to filter out information from attention seeking garbage.?

The world of social media and camera phones has radically changed how you can get your information. Of course this information needs to be verified and posted responsibly and I think by and large we’ve all taken care to do that.

Just because it isn’t the ‘traditional’ way of watching BBC News, doesn’t mean it can’t be as accurate.

The sources that I have used to post links on here are sources that I personally have followed for years- Journalists, soldiers, photographers, academics, local residents. People that are on the ground in Ukraine right now, and let’s be frank, these will be the exact same sources BBC and Sky will be going to for their information.

During the first day of the invasion, when Russian forces were attempting to take Gostomel, BBC and Sky News were still showing footage of the previous nights initial invasion and bombardment. They were about 10 hours behind.

If you prefer BBC or Sky then fine, good for you. Some of us perhaps look to different sources, as well as the ‘traditional’ ones. There’s no need to sneer.

[Willieonthewing]

I realise it doesn't come easy to you but stop being a dick.

The posters who are posting information on here are being very careful what they post, sticking to journalists they know are on the ground there and highlighting where information isn't yet confirmed.

I guess you have your reasons for trying to turn this thread into your usual dribble, but knock it off.

Careful what they post?
I didn't want to repeat what has been said, I thought people would be clever enough to work it out themselves, obviously not

Posting that we are all going to be vapourised in our beds is in no way helpful

[chekhov]

I realise it doesn't come easy to you but stop being a ****

Respectfully Thefamilycat, comments like this don’t help either. Probably better to ignore or at least be tactful.

[TsarBomba]

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv?s=11

A link to Nexta, who describe themselves as the largest media outlet in Eastern Europe. Worth a follow.

[chekhov]

Spot on, you wouldn’t trust somebody working at KFC to fix your alternator on your motor anybody with any sense would go to a garage & see a mechanic.

Jakubclaret, I think it’s perfectly fine for you to look elsewhere for your information.

[Zlatan]

please can we keep the thread on topic, whilst I am not actively contributing to the thread, I am interested in fellow clarets findings and info and I dont want the thread closed. I have reported as many of the "off topic" posts as I can, and instead of responding to them I would urge others to do the same when they see them, thanks

[Burt]

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv?s=11

A link to Nexta, who describe themselves as the largest media outlet in Eastern Europe. Worth a follow.

Thanks great link

[Gibbo]

Lots of credible stuff stating Putin has lost the plot, brought about by his isolation over the last 2 years be size he fears covid. Hence the long tables keeping people at a distance.
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-deba ... nyt-2022-2

[ClaretTony]

FINAL WARNING - SINCE THIS THREAD WAS RE-OPENED, THE MODS HAVE HAD TO DEAL WITH A RIDICULOUS NUMBER OF REPORTS AND COMPLAINTS. IF THIS CONTINUES, THERE WILL BE NO OTHER OPTION BUT TO EITHER LOCK OR EVEN REMOVE THE THREAD.

[Billy Balfour]

please can we keep the thread on topic, whilst I am not actively contributing to the thread, I am interested in fellow clarets findings and info and I dont want the thread closed. I have reported as many of the "off topic" posts as I can, and instead of responding to them I would urge others to do the same when they see them, thanks

Yep. Sick of the childish bickering on here.

[TsarBomba]

EU no fly zone for Russia appears to be holding.

Two instances this morning of Russian planes being intercepted and/or turned round.

One looked to be making a mad dash for Kaliningrad and was intercepted by the Poles.

A second looked to be trying to enter the EU via the back door, but Greece were alert to it.

[Tribesmen]

It's a shame at times as i do like reading this thread but it will go .

[Jakubclaret]

You could of course do the following which would solve the problem

Ban Jakubclaret permanently

and

Wonder why someone with 10 posts who registered two weeks ago is trying to derail it

I can find out that info in two seconds, and I'm sure you can to

This is my last post on the subject, all I’ve simply said is that people are posting unverified nonsense twitter links & it’s not helping with the discussions, you can ban me for telling the truth or maybe ban people for posting nonsense, I’ve noticed my posts have been deleted I’m not sure why, I’ll leave you to your fairytale fantasy twitter be my guest, I’m respectfully leaving so the thread doesn’t get pulled it’s a mature adult course of action.

[Willieonthewing]

This is my last post on the subject, all I’ve simply said is that people are posting unverified nonsense twitter links & it’s not helping with the discussions, you can ban me for telling the truth or maybe ban people for posting nonsense, I’ve noticed my posts have been deleted I’m not sure why, I’ll leave you to your fairytale fantasy twitter be my guest, I’m respectfully leaving so the thread doesn’t get pulled it’s a mature adult course of action.

I will also retreat

I was only trying to help to protect the vulnerable who read this board, as I said I had no problem with facts, just the language used by some, and not as Lancasterclaret suggests trying to derail anything.

[Lancasterclaret]

I will also retreat

I was only trying to help to protect the vulnerable who read this board, as I said I had no problem with facts, just the language used by some, and not as Lancasterclaret suggests trying to derail anything.

Fine, then I retract what I said

[Lancasterclaret]

As mentioned on here yesterday, pretty clear that Russia is going to resort to its usual tactics when dealing with people who for some reason don't want to be told what to do by Russians

Essentially their doctrine hasn't changed fundamentally from what worked in WWII. Artillery and rocket launchers, concentrated en masse to attempt to crush the opposition

It didn't work in Aleppo, but caused huge damage and loads of casualties, but it might well be effective in the fighting outside of the towns and cities

[TsarBomba]

https://twitter.com/girkingirkin?s=11

Not sure if I or someone else has already posted a link to this chap.

This was the go to account for all the troop movements in the months prior to invasion.

[Hipper]

Internet "" discussions"" like this one proliferate across the world. Personally I'd prefer not to attach too much credence to this or any similar information source, relying as it does on a ragbag of questionable evidence from umpteen unverifiable social media sources.

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer to trust the BBC,with actual reporters, on the ground, researching, questioning, and putting out the most reliable picture they can.

John Simpson Clive Mirie Orla Guerrin (sp)...or social media sources where you try to filter out information from attention seeking garbage.?

I watch the BBC news and their web pages but find that, on the TV news in particular, they concentrate too much on the human interest side (babies born, six year old killed, refugees etc.) and not enough on the military. It may be that's what appeals to most watchers or it's just easier to tug at people's emotions but I want is an impression of the wars progress, where it's going, the consequences of various actions to us here in the UK (I'm selfish!).

I find this thread, whilst containing some useless or dubious material (including stuff I've posted) does on the whole have some very interesting links. The best was one posted by Vegas Claret:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... ry-28-2022

It seems to be a similar site to our RUSI:

https://rusi.org/news-and-comment

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The International Court is investigating for possible War Crimes.

[TsarBomba]

Kherson surrounded this morning.

Reports now that Russian troops are entering the city.

[Mala591]

Russian soldiers who lay down their arms and surrender to the Ukrainian army should be guaranteed western asylum.

[Lancasterclaret]

Good thread on how far NATO can go

*Spoiler* - if you think a no fly zone won't lead to war, then you are wrong

https://twitter.com/daltman_IR/status/1 ... 9552883714

[ŽižkovClaret]

https://www.facebook.com/rochdaleukrain ... 4274663593

This is a message from Keighley Ukrainian Club:
Hi
We have just been invited on behalf of the Chairman of Burnley Football Club as guests to their match tomorrow night Tuesday against Leicester, and Chelsea this Saturday
The invitation open to any Ukrainians and friends , and supporters of any football club.
So rally round your football fans, or non football fans.
They will allocate space for us all.
They want to support our cause.
my contact there was Joe Ferguson, 07435 635583
Let me know if you want to send anyone.
We've also been invited to attend KEIGHLEY Cougars rugby league match on Sunday.
Let me know if you want to to attend as guests,
Stefan
regards.
Stefan Pryimuk
Secretary
Keighley Association of Ukrainians in Great Britain Limited (AUGB)

Love this.

UTC and Glory to Ukraine

[TsarBomba]

https://www.facebook.com/rochdaleukrain ... 4274663593



Love this.

UTC and Glory to Ukraine

Fantastic!!

[claretonthecoast1882]

https://www.facebook.com/rochdaleukrain ... 4274663593



Love this.

UTC and Glory to Ukraine

What a brilliant gesture from the club

[RingoMcCartney]

Sizable Ukrainian Community in Rochdale. Had the pleasure of their company a couple times . Good people with strong traditional family values.

[Lancasterclaret]

Exactly this. History teaches us nothing.

It does though

"Those that fail to learn the lessons from history are doomed to repeat it"

Or even more bluntly

"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus

(If you desire peace, prepare for war)

[Boss Hogg]

Havn’t read all the thread so may have been covered but what are the chances of Putin being overthrown from within. Clearly people in his own circle doubt him but people are scared to speak up. He can’t arrest everyone that protests but more more will as the economy suffers and people can’t afford to live.

[Lancasterclaret]

Havn’t read all the thread so may have been covered but what are the chances of Putin being overthrown from within. Clearly people in his own circle doubt him but people are scared to speak up. He can’t arrest everyone that protests but more more will as the economy suffers and people can’t afford to live.

I don't know the chances, but its is the most desirable outcome at this moment

But he's purged or killed anyone around him who isn't fanatically loyal to him, and surrounded himself by people who think Russia are entitled to do what its doing, while at the same time enjoying all the benefits of the money that being part of the Western economic sphere brings, and its whether the reality of essentially becoming a much bigger North Korea will bring him (or his entourage) around

I just don't see a win here for Putin though

Even if he wins, he's essentially unified the West against him (to the extent that Germany has changed its decades old policies and if Sweden and Finland don't join NATO this year I'll be amazed), crippled his economy and will have 45 million furious Ukrainians to try to control

Its really worrying

[Lancasterclaret]

Two different videos of abandoned Russian equipment (the first one in particular are clearly in fully working order)

https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status ... 3122143236

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1498612647704641537

Lots of videos like these, showing Russian Troops in Kherson

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1498609667257344000

[TsarBomba]

https://twitter.com/danriversitv?s=11

Dan Rivers- ITV Correspondent out on the ground in Kharkiv.

[Boss Hogg]

If he is not removed there could be a stand-off with the West for years. I can see guerilla warfare / a resistance continuing in Ukraine even if their government is removed. Is it likely Russia could prohibit travel for its citizens to the new Western Europe so they are not over exposed to Western influence ( similar to in Cold War times) ? There could also be a mass exodus if not ( although not by flight !)

[holycustard]

Cant the americans look the other way and let a ukraine borrow one of those stealth bombers to take out that massive convoy the russians wont even see it especially if they turn the bombers lights out.

[CoolClaret]

Internet "" discussions"" like this one proliferate across the world. Personally I'd prefer not to attach too much credence to this or any similar information source, relying as it does on a ragbag of questionable evidence from umpteen unverifiable social media sources.

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer to trust the BBC,with actual reporters, on the ground, researching, questioning, and putting out the most reliable picture they can.

John Simpson Clive Mirie Orla Guerrin (sp)...or social media sources where you try to filter out information from attention seeking garbage.?

The BBC has absolutely been putting out unverified info during this crisis on numerous occasions.

To believe that the BBC/Sky etc are absolutely objective and have no spin of there own is naive at best and absolutely disingenuous at worst.

The only true way to (and it is a double edged sword for reasons you stated) is to see an original source uploaded to for example Twitter by someone who is there in real time and you can see through their camera lens what they’re seeing/experiencing and come to your own conclusions.

Of course that could also be nonsense as well - but usually can be verified by looking at the replies / number of followers etc

[ŽižkovClaret]

The BBC has absolutely been putting out unverified info during this crisis on numerous occasions.

To believe that the BBC/Sky etc are absolutely objective and have no spin of there own is naive at best and absolutely disingenuous at worst.

The only true way to (and it is a double edged sword for reasons you stated) is to see an original source uploaded to for example Twitter by someone who is there in real time and you can see through their camera lens what they’re seeing/experiencing and come to your own conclusions.

Of course that could also be nonsense as well - but usually can be verified by looking at the replies / number of followers etc

I'm going to come right out and say i'm perfectly ok with pro-Ukraine propaganda

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1498625804426792962

Russian BTR (seriously out of date equipment btw) and a artillery shell going off

Russian troops are clearly in Kherson, but they are also clearly not in control of it, and its a big city

You can't control areas this big with what Russia has, you just can't