Dwight McNeil

[JohnDearyMe]

He played as a 10 at Palace away a season or 2 ago and ran the game (we won 1-0 thanks to a Mee header). Hasn’t played there since bizarrely.

Given how poor our results have been just what is stopping Dyche from trying this out again? As you say, very strange. If some of the more articulate posters on here are suggesting it you'd imagine the issue has been discussed amongst Dyche and his coaching staff.

[spt_claret]

Given how poor our results have been just what is stopping Dyche from trying this out again? As you say, very strange. If some of the more articulate posters on here are suggesting it you'd imagine the issue has been discussed amongst Dyche and his coaching staff.

I would imagine because our top scorer (and top goals per minute in the entire league) in Cornet generally plays there drifting off the shoulder of the forward, you don't really want to move your top scorer backwards away from goal when you need goals, and Dyche judges McNeil's defensive contributions wide are better than Cornet's while Cornet's attacking contributions as a 10 are better than McNeil's.

McNeil has definitely lost a step or two wide and I'd be inclined to play him as a CM in the most forward thinking of a midfield 3, roaming wide or forwards to link with Cornet doing similar from further ahead. But I can understand the reasoning why he isn't- Dwight used to have a hell of a cross on him, if he can rediscover that he's far more useful wide.

[RVclaret]

I would imagine because our top scorer (and top goals per minute in the entire league) in Cornet generally plays there drifting off the shoulder of the forward, you don't really want to move your top scorer backwards away from goal when you need goals, and Dyche judges McNeil's defensive contributions wide are better than Cornet's while Cornet's attacking contributions as a 10 are better than McNeil's.

McNeil has definitely lost a step or two wide and I'd be inclined to play him as a CM in the most forward thinking of a midfield 3, roaming wide or forwards to link with Cornet doing similar from further ahead. But I can understand the reasoning why he isn't- Dwight used to have a hell of a cross on him, if he can rediscover that he's far more useful wide.

To be fair apart from the worldie goals Cornet has actually offered quite little playing as a striker. He isn’t a back to goal hold up player and will be far more effective out wide.

[spt_claret]

To be fair apart from the worldie goals Cornet has actually offered quite little playing as a striker. He isn’t a back to goal hold up player and will be far more effective out wide.

I do agree he gets more involved wide, but when you want goals I wouldn't move him back and McNeil, a player who has 1 goal in his last 25+ games, into a second striker role.
I'd only move Cornet wide if we had a solid number 10 type in the wings- Vydra's injured, Jay's painfully low on form, Barnes is a shadow of his former self and not a #10. Plus it would mean him or Dwight going right, which I'm not a huge fan of.
If we had a right wing option that was a definitive upgrade options massively open up. Even Orsic would have made a difference as LW or not he's right footed.
If Vydra was fit I'd like a 433 with Dwight as the advanced CM and Vydra/Cornet wide right/left, we did something vaguely similar against Chelsea to success. Maybe even try Jay as he managed it then. But I'm not a fan of putting the goal-shy McNeil more advanced than Cornet.

[JohnDearyMe]

I would imagine because our top scorer (and top goals per minute in the entire league) in Cornet generally plays there drifting off the shoulder of the forward, you don't really want to move your top scorer backwards away from goal when you need goals, and Dyche judges McNeil's defensive contributions wide are better than Cornet's while Cornet's attacking contributions as a 10 are better than McNeil's.

McNeil has definitely lost a step or two wide and I'd be inclined to play him as a CM in the most forward thinking of a midfield 3, roaming wide or forwards to link with Cornet doing similar from further ahead. But I can understand the reasoning why he isn't- Dwight used to have a hell of a cross on him, if he can rediscover that he's far more useful wide.

Thanks, very interesting & considered post

[RVclaret]

I do agree he gets more involved wide, but when you want goals I wouldn't move him back and McNeil, a player who has 1 goal in his last 25+ games, into a second striker role.
I'd only move Cornet wide if we had a solid number 10 type in the wings- Vydra's injured, Jay's painfully low on form, Barnes is a shadow of his former self and not a #10. Plus it would mean him or Dwight going right, which I'm not a huge fan of.
If we had a right wing option that was a definitive upgrade options massively open up. Even Orsic would have made a difference as LW or not he's right footed.
If Vydra was fit I'd like a 433 with Dwight as the advanced CM and Vydra/Cornet wide right/left, we did something vaguely similar against Chelsea to success. Maybe even try Jay as he managed it then. But I'm not a fan of putting the goal-shy McNeil more advanced than Cornet.

Hendrick played the 10 (or an advanced 8) in the season we finished 7th. Definitely wasn't playing as a second striker like you suggest McNeil would need to be. It’s more to provide a closer passing option for the midfield two than they currently get when receiving the ball, I remember at times in that season Hendrick even dropped really deep to receive the ball from the defence. A big issue we face every single match is retaining possession, this is partly due to the rigid formation (as well as players).

Understand the reluctance to move Cornet wide but with a defensive Pieters behind him it might just allow him to still get involved (he scored 2 goals in 90 minutes from the left against Leicester then Southampton). He will still get into scoring positions.

[spt_claret]

Hendrick played the 10 (or an advanced 8) in the season we finished 7th. Definitely wasn't playing as a second striker like you suggest McNeil would need to be. It’s more to provide a closer passing option for the midfield two than they currently get when receiving the ball, I remember at times in that season Hendrick even dropped really deep to receive the ball from the defence. A big issue we face every single match is retaining possession, this is partly due to the rigid formation (as well as players).

Understand the reluctance to move Cornet wide but with a defensive Pieters behind him it might just allow him to still get involved (he scored 2 goals in 90 minutes from the left against Leicester then Southampton). He will still get into scoring positions.

I would be nitpicky and argue Hendrick was not a conventional 10 as he didn't tend to make the attacking runs off the shoulder, or have the pace/dynamism/goal threat, he was much more a central attacking midfielder or central false-10 with hold-up and link-up play, it was a role I've not seen a ton of players actually occupy even though positionally it isn't that unusual. A classical number 10 and second striker are quite interchangeable often, but I'd say Cornet operates as a second striker. McNeil's lack of goal threat would put him more in the Hendrick mould, but he lacks Hendrick's physical presence, so I can't see it working unless he has 2 wide men as advanced as he is in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with him in an advanced position of that midfield 3. And again I don't think we currently have the personnel to make that work- if Vydra was fit maybe, maybe you try Jay wide or Lennon that far forwards, but I'm not entirely convinced and can see why our coaching setup aren't.
I would probably risk the gamble for a game or 2 but with an eye to changing and getting Cornet back more central/advanced if it wasn't working, and can definitely see why Cornet hasn't been moved away from goal.

[RVclaret]

I would be nitpicky and argue Hendrick was not a conventional 10 as he didn't tend to make the attacking runs off the shoulder, or have the pace/dynamism/goal threat, he was much more a central attacking midfielder or central false-10 with hold-up and link-up play, it was a role I've not seen a ton of players actually occupy even though positionally it isn't that unusual. A classical number 10 and second striker are quite interchangeable often, but I'd say Cornet operates as a second striker. McNeil's lack of goal threat would put him more in the Hendrick mould, but he lacks Hendrick's physical presence, so I can't see it working unless he has 2 wide men as advanced as he is in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with him in an advanced position of that midfield 3. And again I don't think we currently have the personnel to make that work- if Vydra was fit maybe, maybe you try Jay wide or Lennon that far forwards, but I'm not entirely convinced and can see why our coaching setup aren't.
I would probably risk the gamble for a game or 2 but with an eye to changing and getting Cornet back more central/advanced if it wasn't working, and can definitely see why Cornet hasn't been moved away from goal.

Yeah I don’t disagree re. Hendrick’s role but can McNeil link play and get us playing through the midfield more? It’s clear we need a change and United at home represents a good chance to make that change and at least try. I think it’s possible it will work. Weghorst looks like he can play a bit with his feet so I think they could link up well. I mentioned previously Dwight played there when we won 1-0 at Palace recently and was the best player on the park. That was with Pieters playing wide.

[spt_claret]

Yeah I don’t disagree re. Hendrick’s role but can McNeil link play and get us playing through the midfield more? It’s clear we need a change and United at home represents a good chance to make that change and at least try. I think it’s possible it will work. Weghorst looks like he can play a bit with his feet so I think they could link up well. I mentioned previously Dwight played there when we won 1-0 at Palace recently and was the best player on the park. That was with Pieters playing wide.

Definitely see the argument for it and I think until he rediscovers his crossing ability McNeil is probably better served central. Just not thrilled at moving Cornet back without a comparable player on the other side.
Genuinely, had we signed Orsic not only would I be much more comfortable with the switch, I think Dyche would likely have employed it.

[boatshed bill]

Dwight McNeil is fine on the left wing.
Lately he seems to be part of a tactical/positional experiment that isn't working.

[Rileybobs]

Did anyone see Dyche giving McNeil some pointers on the bench during the first half today? I thought it was interesting and something I haven’t seen him do before. It was immediately after Cornet had made a run in behind Liverpool’s defence onto a Westwood ball and was flagged offside.

I wonder whether he was pointing out the runs that Cornet makes to get into positions to affect the game. McNeil certainly seemed more intent to put balls into the box when he came on.

[RalphCoatesComb]

Did anyone see Dyche giving McNeil some pointers on the bench during the first half today? I thought it was interesting and something I haven’t seen him do before. It was immediately after Cornet had made a run in behind Liverpool’s defence onto a Westwood ball and was flagged offside.

I wonder whether he was pointing out the runs that Cornet makes to get into positions to affect the game. McNeil certainly seemed more intent to put balls into the box when he came on.

He was more effective today than he has been this year. Hopefully, a short spell on the bench is all that he needs.

[Vegas Claret]

put in a great ball for Barnes

[boatshed bill]

A young man who has carried the majority of our attacking creativity for at least two seasons.
If there's anything wrong with Dwight McNeil at present look no further than the coaching staff... as I see it they have collectively failed to improve a single player
Apart from Nick Pope, possibly

[Rileybobs]

A young man who has carried the majority of our attacking creativity for at least two seasons.
If there's anything wrong with Dwight McNeil at present look no further than the coaching staff... as I see it they have collectively failed to improve a single player
Apart from Nick Pope, possibly

I’d say our coaching staff have helped to improve almost all of our players.

[boatshed bill]

I’d say our coaching staff have helped to improve almost all of our players.

Could you be more specific?
Not disrespecting your point of view, I'm interested

[Rileybobs]

Could you be more specific?
Not disrespecting your point of view, I'm interested

Well the majority of our players have been signed from a lower level than the Premier League, and have improved to play numerous seasons at a higher level.

[alboclaret]

Although players have been improved in the past i cant think of one that's been improved since Dwight broke through.

Can't teach an old dog new tricks, applies to some though

[boatshed bill]

Well the majority of our players have been signed from a lower level than the Premier League, and have improved to play numerous seasons at a higher level.

I'm maybe looking at it from a different angle.
Several may have peaked at Burnley; few (Wood. only) have attracted interest and a bid from other PL clubs.
I'd say (in the SD era) Tarkowski is the real success, and we won't see a penny from it.

[Rileybobs]

Although players have been improved in the past i cant think of one that's been improved since Dwight broke through.

Can't teach an old dog new tricks, applies to some though

Pope, Mee, Long, Tarkowski, Taylor, Brownhill, Westwood, Wood - straight off the bat. Obviously more senior players are beyond being improved, but that isn’t a reflection of the coaching.

[Rileybobs]

I'm maybe looking at it from a different angle.
Several may have peaked at Burnley; few (Wood. only) have attracted interest and a bid from other PL clubs.
I'd say (in the SD era) Tarkowski is the real success, and we won't see a penny from it.

You’ve said yourself that several have peaked at Burnley which kind of proves my point. And we don’t know how many have attracted interest or bids from other PL clubs. And not seeing a penny from Tarkowski is irrelevant considering his contribution to the success of this team.

[boatshed bill]

Pope, Mee, Long, Tarkowski, Taylor, Brownhill, Westwood, Wood - straight off the bat. Obviously more senior players are beyond being improved, but that isn’t a reflection of the coaching.

Have they improved, or just been moulded into a system?
I see these as two completely different things.
But Tarkowski and Pope...definitely improved, I give you that

[alboclaret]

Pope, Mee, Long, Tarkowski, Taylor, Brownhill, Westwood, Wood - straight off the bat. Obviously more senior players are beyond being improved, but that isn’t a reflection of the coaching.

Since Dwight broke through?

Pope. Aye

[wilks_bfc]

I could be wrong but I think that was the first time Dwight had been “dropped” since he broke into the team.

It may be the kick he needs and he did look more like his old self when he came on, although felt there were a few moments he could have made the pass quicker but decided to try bet the man again

[The Enclosure]

Taylor has definitely made great strides forward from when he first came.I would say Westwood and Brownhill also.

[boatshed bill]

I could be wrong but I think that was the first time Dwight had been “dropped” since he broke into the team.

It may be the kick he needs and he did look more like his old self when he came on, although felt there were a few moments he could have made the pass quicker but decided to try bet the man again

No, he needs to be played on the left wing.
He used to be near the international set-up for his age group,
now his main stat is that he is our top tackler.

[Andreshotboots]

The Manager mentioned in his post match interview that he only turned backwards once when he came on. Seems to me they are working on him being more forward thinking, running at the opposition and taking them on more.

[CoolClaret]

Awful

Really sick of him and his poor attitude on the pitch

[Milltown1882]

Bang average Championship winger on current form.

[Pommieclaret]

To 1 footed easy to read and defend against

[joey13]

Terrible attitude all season even worse today

[Andreshotboots]

Laughable. This is just like the start of the season where we have an under 11 standard 10-15 minutes and concede for fun. Fact it we should have been at least 2 up at half time and yet again spurn chance after chance.

[BurnleyFC]

I’ve been a big advocate of McNeil and think he receives a lot of undue criticism but he’s been absolutely dreadful today.

[ElectroClaret]

He might be OK in the Championship, that's where we're heading.

[RVclaret]

1 assist and 0 goals in 26 games for a supposed creative threat is pretty alarming.

[tiger76]

He can't start next week surely after today's performance. Not all on him, but a large part of it is.

[Burnley1989]

Decent until his miss, then he was a disgrace, hiding, no confidence, lip out! Should have been dragged instead of Jay. Certainly not a player you want next to you in the trenches

[Tribesmen]

Did not play well today , had ther chance to close down James but did not and scored , now as for the miss in the first half ............................... well needs to looks at MOTD

[KRBFC]

I still don't see this £50m player Sidney was raving about, I think my football expert opinion of £20m-£25m may have been a touch over the top.

[boatshed bill]

I'm glad I missed this game,.
As for Dwight McNeil....
I suppose people need to vent their ire, so why not pick on Dwight?

[BOYSIE31]

Cost us the game today

[Milltown1882]

I still don't see this £50m player Sidney was raving about, I think my football expert opinion of £20m-£25m may have been a touch over the top.

Be playing for Huddersfield in a couple of years

[Taffy on the wing]

Ladies and Gentlemen .....i give you todays Scapegoat...........Dwight McNeil!
....Maybe he's tired? Maybe the rest of them are tired too.

[KRBFC]

He's an oreyt player is Dwight, not sure he's a wide player. The comparisons on here with Smith Rowe, Saka, Foden, Mount etc were always absolutely ridiculous.

[CoolClaret]

Ladies and Gentlemen .....i give you todays Scapegoat...........Dwight McNeil!
....Maybe he's tired? Maybe the rest of them are tired too.

He's a 22 yr old professional football player

[DCWat]

To be fair to McNeil, he’s had and has a lot of expectation put on him ever since he broke into the team. It’s a lot for a young lad and he’s not helped by there being so few options - either to give him a spell on the sidelines or to share the creative requirements on the pitch.

We all know that there’s a damn good player in there, he’s shown as much on plenty of occasions. He will come good again but at the moment he does look devoid of confidence.

Him getting dogs abuse from the stands won’t help him or the team.

[RVclaret]

He's an oreyt player is Dwight, not sure he's a wide player. The comparisons on here with Smith Rowe, Saka, Foden, Mount etc were always absolutely ridiculous.

To be fair when he burst onto the scene at 19 years old, scoring and assisting plus was in the 21s side, it looked like he had a big future. The player of back then scores or assists in the first half today.

[Burnley1989]

He's a 22 yr old professional football player

You can’t criticise on here…. he was shite and fans are entitled to say so

We’ve one fan above defending him, yet didn’t see the game… says it all

[KRBFC]

To be fair when he burst onto the scene at 19 years old, scoring and assisting plus was in the 21s side, it looked like he had a big future. The player of back then scores or assists in the first half today.

He's been ran into the ground and has absolutely zero confidence because of it. Top 5 in the league in the tackles chart, he's one of the players you will see improve dramatically with a new manager in.

[gandhisflipflop]

There is no excuses for a premier league footballer to miss the chance he missed today.