Where would we finish in the Championship?

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by tiger76 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:36 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:18 pm
Imo if we keep Dyche, we won't go back up. Not because Dyche is a poor manager but because many of our better players don't suit the Dyche football, the feeling around the place has been bleak for 2 years and it's near impossible to turn around. The whole thing has gone stale and we have no idea how to win games of football, we've forgot. That suddenly doesn't all change once you're relegated and hit with financial cuts.
Hence why I said the manager, I sense it's the end of an era with Dyche, he's been brilliant for us, but all good things come to an end, and it feels like the ideal time to cut ties given all the OOC players, now whether Alan Pace will see it that way I don't know, and he might now be bitterly regretting extending Sean's contract, especially for so long, as it'll mean a hefty pay out to get shot of Sean.

Of course Sean isn't a poor manager, but he's been here for the best part of 10 years, and the whole club badly needs a shake-up, our situation is drastically different to our last relegation, back then we had the basis of a decent Championship squad, and players still at their peak, now we have an over the hill squad, and players nearing the end of their careers at the top level.

Which is why I fear it'll take at least a season to consolidate, and that doesn't even take into account our dire financial position compared to 2015, when we could sweep up the top Championship talent, as we did to great effect and profit with Andre Gray.

Parachute payments might cushion the blow, but the key for me is reducing the wage bill, and that's why I'd be reluctant to give new contracts to many of the over 30's, surely we have guys in our under 23's who can contribute during a Championship campaign, Benson & Dunne seem to have performed fairly well at that level this season, so you'd hope there's a few others who can make the step up to the bench at the very least.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by PremierLeagueClass » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:37 pm

We would be very strongly placed to go back up. Given how important it is that we do come back up, you can bet that Pace will work hard to get the squad ready.
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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by BERNIEU » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:38 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:28 pm
Things will need to change and with the OOC players we have the ideal opportunity to do that.
I'm thinking though - surely it's best to offer some players a new contract and only have to sign 3-5 new players; than to allow them all to pop off and we need to spend twice as much? I think doing this over 2-3 windows: Summer - Jan - Summer, is better than just potting them all and trying to sign half a squad almost.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by PremierLeagueClass » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:39 pm

And let’s not forget that Dyche has already brought us straight back once before.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by BERNIEU » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:40 pm

PremierLeagueClass wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:39 pm
And let’s not forget that Dyche has already brought us straight back once before.
And got us promoted twice. A lot of people I can tell have had that wiped from memory.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:41 pm

Top 2 confidently.

For a start we wouldn't play this style of football in the championship. We have enough talent to beat most clubs, so long as we approach the games correctly.
It would also be a good time to lose some OOC players, blood the best of the youngsters, and spend what little money we have available, looking for a few nuggets to fill the gaps.
It would be a lot easier to build a new side in the championship, than in the Prem, but I haven't given up hope yet.
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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:42 pm

BERNIEU wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:38 pm
I'm thinking though - surely it's best to offer some players a new contract and only have to sign 3-5 new players; than to allow them all to pop off and we need to spend twice as much? I think doing this over 2-3 windows: Summer - Jan - Summer, is better than just potting them all and trying to sign half a squad almost.
I can see us offering a couple deals but for me we need younger legs in midfield especially
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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Guller Bull » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:42 pm

Lets find out!

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by EarbyClaret » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:43 pm

Some people perhaps over-estimate the quality of the Championship. If we keep the nucleus of a decent squad we will have decent buying power at that level. I would envisage something similar to last time. In and around the play-off places by the turn of the year. Astute purchases in the January window making us genuine contenders. Somewhere between automatic and nailed-on for the play-offs

We need look at what the likes of Fulham and Bournemouth have done though and steer well clear of the Stoke, Swansea and West Brom models

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by BERNIEU » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:44 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:42 pm
I can see us offering a couple deals but for me we need younger legs in midfield especially
But we still need depth. I'd like at least to offer Jay and Lennon a 1 years contract. Pieters too to remain cover for Taylor. Westwood and Cork can add depth if we did bring in a younger central midfielder.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by BERNIEU » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:45 pm

EarbyClaret wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:43 pm
Some people perhaps over-estimate the quality of the Championship.
I agree with this.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Bosscat » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:47 pm

Be very careful what you wish for on here ... I can just imagine the meltdown of people if we don't challenge in the Championship ...

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:50 pm

BERNIEU wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:29 pm
Dyche already had a very healthy existing contract. Think about it. Would he sign a new one if it meant he could be easily let off at the end of this season? It only makes sense that he renewed if both (a) a higher wage and (b) long term stability, were in his favour.
He'd previously liked the rolling contract, he had less than 12 months to run before resigning his current deal. With the wages being so high, I'd be shocked if there wasn't some kind of financial safety net in there for the club to activate especially a club like ours in a financial mess.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:52 pm

BERNIEU wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:44 pm
But we still need depth. I'd like at least to offer Jay and Lennon a 1 years contract. Pieters too to remain cover for Taylor. Westwood and Cork can add depth if we did bring in a younger central midfielder.
you would expect all those players to be at the top of our pay scale even on new deals - finances will dictate it, can we afford to have those level of contracts on the bench ? I know what you are saying, just not sure if it's viable and we also don't know what those players themselves think. Maybe they will want to leave anyway.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:52 pm

EarbyClaret wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:43 pm
Some people perhaps over-estimate the quality of the Championship. If we keep the nucleus of a decent squad we will have decent buying power at that level. I would envisage something similar to last time. In and around the play-off places by the turn of the year. Astute purchases in the January window making us genuine contenders. Somewhere between automatic and nailed-on for the play-offs

We need look at what the likes of Fulham and Bournemouth have done though and steer well clear of the Stoke, Swansea and West Brom models
Fulham and Norwich were up down up down.

Stoke, Blackburn, Bolton, Leeds, Bournemouth, Charlton, Southampton, Swansea, Sunderland were up up up up up up down
Last edited by KRBFC on Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:54 pm

It's not so much over estimating the quality of the Championship, it's the games come thick and fast, not winning football matches is a habit that's incredibly difficult to shake. The notorious relegation hangover, there's been many sides relegated to League One from the PL in quick succession.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by BurnleyFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:55 pm

The squad as it currently stands - top 6.

The squad after the notable losses of Pope, Tarks and whoever else gets snapped up - bottom half.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by BERNIEU » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:56 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:52 pm
you would expect all those players to be at the top of our pay scale even on new deals - finances will dictate it, can we afford to have those level of contracts on the bench ? I know what you are saying, just not sure if it's viable and we also don't know what those players themselves think. Maybe they will want to leave anyway.
Would you? Lennon couldn't find a club before we brought him back on a 1 year contract.

But do we sign someone for 1 year or go out and need to spend £10m on a new player?

The club knows these players, they know what they can do. You go out and buy someone new and who knows what can happen. They go for a 12-month contract with Lennon vs signing a new player for £10 million. Lennon is the safer option and it allows us to split the project into 2-3 windows as opposed to 1.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:04 pm

BERNIEU wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:56 pm
Would you? Lennon couldn't find a club before we brought him back on a 1 year contract.

But do we sign someone for 1 year or go out and need to spend £10m on a new player?

The club knows these players, they know what they can do. You go out and buy someone new and who knows what can happen. They go for a 12-month contract with Lennon vs signing a new player for £10 million. Lennon is the safer option and it allows us to split the project into 2-3 windows as opposed to 1.
£10m to replace Lennon? lol

We haven't got time to split the project into 2-3 windows. Where is the money coming from to rebuild this team?

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by EarbyClaret » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:06 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:54 pm
It's not so much over estimating the quality of the Championship, it's the games come thick and fast, not winning football matches is a habit that's incredibly difficult to shake. The notorious relegation hangover, there's been many sides relegated to League One from the PL in quick succession.
Absolutely right - as witnessed by Sheffield United, who after an abysmal start will now be looking at top six as a minimum requirement

I don't think we fall into the Coventry/Sunderland/Wigan category of implosion and still have the pulling power to sign someone like Adebayo, Gyokeres or Jakobsen - in much the same way as we signed Andre Gray last time

Not taking anything for granted but anyone who comes down from the PL after 5/6 years and retains their core stability should be realistically aiming for the business end of the Championship

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by BERNIEU » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:07 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:04 pm
£10m to replace Lennon? lol
Well you can't mean less than £10m so fine - £15 million.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:09 pm

EarbyClaret wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:06 pm
Absolutely right - as witnessed by Sheffield United, who after an abysmal start will now be looking at top six as a minimum requirement

I don't think we fall into the Coventry/Sunderland/Wigan category of implosion and still have the pulling power to sign someone like Adebayo, Gyokeres or Jakobsen - in much the same way as we signed Andre Gray last time

Not taking anything for granted but anyone who comes down from the PL after 5/6 years and retains their core stability should be realistically aiming for the business end of the Championship
They should if they've added quality players while in the PL. We've got 10 players out of contract and we don't have a pot to **** in to replace them?
Where is money coming from this time to fund signings like Andre Gray of last time? we're broke and in the minus.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Milltown1882 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:10 pm

EarbyClaret wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:06 pm
Absolutely right - as witnessed by Sheffield United, who after an abysmal start will now be looking at top six as a minimum requirement

I don't think we fall into the Coventry/Sunderland/Wigan category of implosion and still have the pulling power to sign someone like Adebayo, Gyokeres or Jakobsen - in much the same way as we signed Andre Gray last time

Not taking anything for granted but anyone who comes down from the PL after 5/6 years and retains their core stability should be realistically aiming for the business end of the Championship
Sunderland

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:10 pm

BERNIEU wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:07 pm
Well you can't mean less than £10m so fine - £15 million.
I'd take Jed Wallace on a free transfer over Aaron Lennon every day of the week.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by dougcollins » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:15 pm

Where would we finish in the Championship?

You'll get the answer in just over a year.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:21 pm

I don't think anyone who predicts top 2 has considered how different our financial position is this time compared to last time we were relegated.

We've 10 players out of contract and no money to replace them.

We owe Lyon most of Cornet's 13 million fee.
We owe Garlick £60m in 3 instalments.
the £60m MSD loan hangs over our head, £5m a year we owe in interest.
The money for ALK to buy the fans' shares, where is that coming from?
We've got Dyche on 75 grand a week (and no doubt his staff got a hefty wage increase).
We'll have lost quite a decent amount in income from fans paying with ''club credit'' for tickets and other stuff.
Cat 1 Academies are not cheap to run, Blackburn downgraded after relegation.
We've seen significant downgrades on players value in the last 12 months (Pope, Mcneil)
Tark and Mee leaving on free transfers (as it stands).

Having considered all of the above, if we got £15m-£20m in for Mcneil, are you confident that money would be reinvested? even if it was reinvested in new players, it would be a **** or bust situation.
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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:22 pm

If you want to know how broke we are, Pace said we weren't planning on doing ANY business in the previous January window (before Wood left).

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:31 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:09 pm
They should if they've added quality players while in the PL. We've got 10 players out of contract and we don't have a pot to **** in to replace them?
Where is money coming from this time to fund signings like Andre Gray of last time? we're broke and in the minus.
I asked CP about a month or so ago specifically about the effect of relegation, he was pretty confident we would be ok for 2 seasons. Your saying things about our finances that aren't correct (at this point)

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:32 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:31 pm
I asked CP about a month or so ago specifically about the effect of relegation, he was pretty confident we would be ok for 2 seasons. Your saying things about our finances that aren't correct (at this point)
What did I say that wasn't correct?

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by BERNIEU » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:33 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:22 pm
If you want to know how broke we are, Pace said we weren't planning on doing ANY business in the previous January window (before Wood left).
Previous January window? January 2021?

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Milltown1882 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:34 pm

BERNIEU wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:33 pm
Previous January window? January 2021?
No, 2 months ago.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by BERNIEU » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:36 pm

But we already know the finances, so why are people confused as to what money there is to spend? The money we spend is an investment. Like with any other business.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:36 pm

We’ll see I guess. But I think the championship is hugely overrated on here. We’ve spent years in the PL and built a squad for that. How many players have we signed for around £10 million, championship clubs can’t do that. Depends who stays but even the likes of brownhill were the best in the championship at the time they moved here and he’s developed a lot with us.
I genuinely believe a team of:
Pope
Roberts Collins Mee Taylor
Lennon Brownhill any/new McNeil
Cornet Weghorst

Easily wins it. The whole back 5 are too good for the championship, midfield solid and the two upfront have champions league pedigree never mind Championship. If we can keep something like that together, we would have absolutely nothing to worry about, the defence is obviously pretty solid and that frontline would do nasty things to championship defences. It would be largely about retaining a first 11 like that and bringing in players to boost the squad with potential to develop.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Milltown1882 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:37 pm

BERNIEU wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:36 pm
But we already know the finances, so why are people confused as to what money there is to spend? The money we spend is an investment. Like with any other business.
A football club is like no other business, significantly more variables.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:38 pm

BERNIEU wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:36 pm
But we already know the finances, so why are people confused as to what money there is to spend? The money we spend is an investment. Like with any other business.
We need money in the first place to be able to invest it.....

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:39 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:32 pm
What did I say that wasn't correct?
read what I put, I didn't say you were incorrect in the long term, I merely said that CP said we'd be ok for a couple of seasons (to get back up before **** hits the fan). You are suggesting that the minute we go down we are well and truly screwed - that simply isn't the case according to what CP said a month or so ago (he clearly knows more about this than the majority of us on here).

If you want to get into a blind panic about it that's your prerogative of course

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by taio » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:39 pm

BERNIEU wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:36 pm
But we already know the finances, so why are people confused as to what money there is to spend? The money we spend is an investment. Like with any other business.
We don't know the ins and outs beyond speculation and we certainly don't know what money there is to spend going forward, not least because there are different nuances and scenarios right now.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by BERNIEU » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:41 pm

Milltown1882 wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:37 pm
A football club is like no other business, significantly more variables.
We were buying players with more debt. But people can follow the finance thread to discuss that.

This seems to be a thread for the most pessimistic people in the country to discuss how badly we'll do next season.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:43 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:39 pm
read what I put, I didn't say you were incorrect in the long term, I merely said that CP said we'd be ok for a couple of seasons (to get back up before **** hits the fan). You are suggesting that the minute we go down we are well and truly screwed - that simply isn't the case according to what CP said a month or so ago (he clearly knows more about this than the majority of us on here).

If you want to get into a blind panic about it that's your prerogative of course
I didn't say we'd be screwed once we're down. CP saying we'll be fine for 2 years financially is completely different when it comes to competing for automatic promotion and investing in new players. Finding money to pay outstanding loans/payments can be selling a couple of our better players but that harms our chances of promotion.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:45 pm

BERNIEU wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:41 pm
We were buying players with more debt. But people can follow the finance thread to discuss that.

This seems to be a thread for the most pessimistic people in the country to discuss how badly we'll do next season.
We didn't buy any players with debt, there would've likely been money remaining in the club after the sale (even after ALK borrowed from the club) to fund Collins. Plus player fees are paid across the length of contract, so we didn't need to find the entire 13m euros for Cornet instantly.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:48 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:43 pm
I didn't say we'd be screwed once we're down. CP saying we'll be fine for 2 years financially is completely different when it comes to competing for automatic promotion and investing in new players. Finding money to pay outstanding loans/payments can be selling a couple of our better players but that harms our chances of promotion.
Haha, if you think your posts don't give off that vibe then fair enough but we'll see of course what happens. I can't be arsed with blind panic and in all my time on earth I've never once witnessed anybody being able to cross a bridge before they've got to it

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:50 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:48 pm
Haha, if you think your posts don't give off that vibe then fair enough but we'll see of course what happens. I can't be arsed with blind panic and in all my time on earth I've never once witnessed anybody being able to cross a bridge before they've got to it
I just put out finances to consider, important to consider when predicting we'll be fighting for automatic promotion and investing in players. Incredibly risky to reinvest money on players from outgoings imo. It's not blind panic, it's the reality of our finances and I'm not panicking, just informing.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Milltown1882 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:52 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:50 pm
I just put out finances to consider, important to consider when predicting we'll be fighting for automatic promotion and investing in players. Incredibly risky to reinvest money on players from outgoings imo. It's not blind panic, it's the reality of our finances and I'm not panicking, just informing.
Jay and Vydra are gonna bang in 40 between them though after scoring about 6 combined in the last three years

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:54 pm

I think Weghorst, Cornet and Mcneil will be a serious threat under a new manager, a manager who suits their style. Launching it doesn't suit those 3.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:57 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:50 pm
I just put out finances to consider, important to consider when predicting we'll be fighting for automatic promotion and investing in players. Incredibly risky to reinvest money on players from outgoings imo. It's not blind panic, it's the reality of our finances and I'm not panicking, just informing.
so what do we do then, I'm like you in wanting new players (i agree with the losing is a habit scenario 100%) - we have to sign players, we do have to go up again (because of the long term finances, unless there is something we don't know). Who would you attempt keep this summer ?

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by EarbyClaret » Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:00 pm

I'm no football expert and the point about more variables - compared to the real world - is a valid one

Based on the criteria used for risk assessment more generally I see it something like this for a relegated PL club

Challenge for automatic/play-offs (Bournemouth/Fulham/Norwich/Watford) - best case - probable: worst case - possible
Get bogged down in the mid-table obscurity (Stoke, Swansea, West Brom) - best case - possible: worst case - probable
Crash, burn and return (Blackburn, Blackpool, Hull) - best case - unlikely: worst case - possible
Sink into L1/L2 (Bolton, Sunderland, Wigan) - best case - highly unlikely: worst case - unlikely/possible

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by BERNIEU » Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:01 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:54 pm
I think Weghorst, Cornet and Mcneil will be a serious threat under a new manager, a manager who suits their style. Launching it doesn't suit those 3.
We wouldn't launch it in the Championship.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by RVclaret » Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:13 pm

BERNIEU wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:56 pm
Would you? Lennon couldn't find a club before we brought him back on a 1 year contract.

But do we sign someone for 1 year or go out and need to spend £10m on a new player?

The club knows these players, they know what they can do. You go out and buy someone new and who knows what can happen. They go for a 12-month contract with Lennon vs signing a new player for £10 million. Lennon is the safer option and it allows us to split the project into 2-3 windows as opposed to 1.
Why does a new player need to cost £10m? I don’t get that.

Jed Wallace free
John Swift free
Billy Gilmour loan
Jason Knight £5m

Lewis Richardson promote
Mancini Gomez promote

There’s 6 ‘new players’ for the team off the top of my head with a net spend of £5m. Okay I’m in speculation mode there but I wouldn’t say any are unrealistic either.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by BERNIEU » Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:16 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:13 pm
Why does a new player need to cost £10m? I don’t get that.
No worries. I don't believe it's worth going into a conversation with you so we'll agree to disagree.

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Re: Where would we finish in the Championship?

Post by RVclaret » Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:18 pm

BERNIEU wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:16 pm
No worries. I don't believe it's worth going into a conversation with you so we'll agree to disagree.
Did you choose to ignore the rest of my reply?

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