Come on Wolves!

[Bin Ont Turf]

And yet we'd scored less at this stage of the season in 2017/18 when we were on our way to Europe. The lack of goals didn't kill us then so why is it now?

Many other clubs in transitional periods at that time (managers, takeovers etc)
Better teams in this league now
Steven Defour
Stephen Ward
Ashley Barnes on fire
Younger team
Luck

[jrgbfc]

Conceding late goals against Leeds, Leicester (twice) & Brentford would never have happened in previous seasons.

I actually thought we'd turned a corner after Arsenal away & then Spurs at home.

Yeah, add in games like Norwich and Watford at home that in previous seasons you feel we'd have nicked a scrappy one nil win.

[ClaretTony]

I don't know Tony, but we obviously haven't scored enough, or we wouldn't be where we are now.

At this stage four years ago we were seventh having scored a goal less. We'd scored less last season but had 30 points at this stage of the season. But in 2017/18, we'd conceded just 24 whereas now we've conceded 38.

We've never scored a lot of goals but there have been games this season that we'd have won in previous seasons, including the opening two league games when we led 1-0 against Brighton and Leeds.

How many late goals have cost us (last 15 minutes)?

Brighton (h) - 78 mins from 1-1 to 1-2
Leeds (h) - 86 mins from 1-0 to 1-1
Leicester (a) - 85 mins from 2-1 to 2-2
Leeds (a) - 77 & 90+2 from 1-1 to 1-3
Leicester (h) - 82 & 90 from 0-0 to 0-2
Brentford (a) - 84 & 90+2 from 0-0 to 0-2

That didn't used to happen very often.

[Vino blanco]

I find it amusing that there is a debate on here now about is it the defence (goals conceded) or the attack (goals scored) which is our downfall. To me this is not the problem: we have a midfield that neither helps protect the defence nor creates anything for our strikers. I said on here, before the season started that if our central midfield was Cork, Westwood, Brownhill and Stephens we would struggle to stay up: this was when everyone was shouting out for speedy wingers and strikers.
After the transfer window closed in August I said it was a disgrace that we hadn't strenghtened midfield and that we would be facing relegation.
This, together with predictable, boring, defensive tactics from the management team, is, in my opinion, the reason why we are where we are now.

[IanMcL]

We will win through.

[Jakubclaret]

Got to begrudgingly admire Leeds tonight. Yes the sending off changed things but fair play to them for scoring 3 second half goals and coming away with the win. It's not over, but I think they have Saints at home the day we play City. The massive disaster was Brentford as I think they were our only realistic hope of dragging somebody down into the fight..

For sure because Brentford were fading despite beating us & I think Norwich (key games for them) but we could have been within 3 pts of them almost touching distance, 9pts is too much now 3 wins we’ve only won 3 all season past the halfway point & they’ll pick up more points. We just haven’t helped ourselves in any sort of way.

[ElectroClaret]

How many late goals have cost us (last 15 minutes)?

Brighton (h) - 78 mins from 1-1 to 1-2
Leeds (h) - 86 mins from 1-0 to 1-1
Leicester (a) - 85 mins from 2-1 to 2-2
Leeds (a) - 77 & 90+2 from 1-1 to 1-3
Leicester (h) - 82 & 90 from 0-0 to 0-2
Brentford (a) - 84 & 90+2 from 0-0 to 0-2

That didn't used to happen very often.

Absolutely.
So us scoring more would have turned a lot (maybe not all, but certainly some) of those results around, no?
Resulting in more points.
And you're right, it didn't used to happen very often.

[ClaretTony]

Absolutely.
So us scoring more would have turned a lot (maybe not all, but certainly some) of those results around, no?
Resulting in more points.
And you're right, it didn't used to happen very often.

What I'm saying is, without scoring more goals, we would more often than not win and draw those games and not concede late goals. We had become masters at winning 1-0 but that is not as common now. Those recent defeats against Leicester and Brentford wouldn't have happened, we'd have seen them out for 0-0s.

Yes, it would be good if we could score more goals but I doubt we'd ever score a lot more than we have. It's always been about controlling the goals against column and while there haven't been any big defeats, until Chelsea, we've conceded goals more easily than some previous seasons. I said ages ago (just before Wolves away) that we would need to start keeping more clean sheets to stay up and I still think that's the case.

[Bin Ont Turf]

What I'm saying is, without scoring more goals, we would more often than not win and draw those games and not concede late goals. We had become masters at winning 1-0 but that is not as common now. Those recent defeats against Leicester and Brentford wouldn't have happened, we'd have seen them out for 0-0s.

Yes, it would be good if we could score more goals but I doubt we'd ever score a lot more than we have. It's always been about controlling the goals against column and while there haven't been any big defeats, until Chelsea, we've conceded goals more easily than some previous seasons. I said ages ago (just before Wolves away) that we would need to start keeping more clean sheets to stay up and I still think that's the case.

Well it's about scoring goals now, lots of goals, more than the opposition.

We aren't going to 'clean sheet' our way out of this.

[ClaretTony]

Well it's about scoring goals now, lots of goals, more than the opposition.

We aren't going to 'clean sheet' our way out of this.

I still believe that if we do it, and it's going to be bloody difficult, then it will be keeping clean sheets and sneaking draws and wins that way. That's the way we've always done it and I don't think we are suddenly start scoring a lot of goals.

[Wokingclaret]

What I'm saying is, without scoring more goals, we would more often than not win and draw those games and not concede late goals. We had become masters at winning 1-0 but that is not as common now. Those recent defeats against Leicester and Brentford wouldn't have happened, we'd have seen them out for 0-0s.

Yes, it would be good if we could score more goals but I doubt we'd ever score a lot more than we have. It's always been about controlling the goals against column and while there haven't been any big defeats, until Chelsea, we've conceded goals more easily than some previous seasons. I said ages ago (just before Wolves away) that we would need to start keeping more clean sheets to stay up and I still think that's the case.

Apart from the new recruits which didn't quite match what was needed, our players are one or two years older and that costs in this league. For example players that have Struggled JBG, Barns, Jay Rod, Cork, Stephens, Westwood & Wood. It especially has shown in back to back games. Also our central midfield has definitely deteriorated.

[dsr]

Well it's about scoring goals now, lots of goals, more than the opposition.

We aren't going to 'clean sheet' our way out of this.

You don't need to score "lots of goals" to get points. Blackburn recently played 12 games and got 12 points, by scoring just 3 goals. If they'd doubled the goal tally, to 6 in 12 games, they might have had 18 points.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Okay then chaps, we need to win matches. To win matches you have to score goals.

I hope I've been clearer there.

[dsr]

The problem is we have had a number of games against relegation rivals that were seen as 'must win' this season and we haven't won any of them. Many of these games saw us putting in pathetic toothless performances.

Norwich (h)
Newcastle (a)
Leeds (a)
Watford (h)
Brentford (a)

We can get out of this but going off our big game performances this season, we have shown no sign of turning it on when it's most needed.

Though to be fair, Everton and Leeds have both proved that pathetic performances can still get you 3 points. I doubt Burnley have played as badly as that all season. It is unbelievable how bad Wolves' defence was.

Goal 1 - the long ball played to the winger, who is marked. so the marker runs 10 yards forward to miss the ball so the winger has time and space to shoot. Then the forwards can keep hitting the rebounds till one goes in.

goal 2 - the ball played to the man unmarked in the area who has the job of lobbing theball into the empty net because the keeper is miles out of position. If he misses, get the ball to another unmarked forward with the same job of getting the ball into the empty net bwith the keeper, this time, several yards further up the pitch. You would have thought one of the many defenders who were standing watching could have advised him that between the sticks was the danger area.

Goal 3 - lob the ball into the box for a dead ball. while two defenders are having a chat about whether it would be a good idea to clear it, nip in and score.

Or Everton's skilled tactic yesterday. Check which side of the penalty are the six defenders are standing in, run into the other side of the penalty area which is vacant, and put the ball into the 4 yards of goal that the keeper has left uncovered because he wants to protect his right hand stanchion.

If Newcastle and Wolves defend like that when they play us, then we get 6 points (almost) guaranteed.

[BabylonClaret]

Conceding late goals against Leeds, Leicester (twice) & Brentford would never have happened in previous seasons.

I actually thought we'd turned a corner after Arsenal away & then Spurs at home.

This.

Saturday effectively killed off my optimism and this week has just put the turd on top of that.

[Somethingfishy]

I find it amusing that there is a debate on here now about is it the defence (goals conceded) or the attack (goals scored) which is our downfall. To me this is not the problem: we have a midfield that neither helps protect the defence nor creates anything for our strikers. I said on here, before the season started that if our central midfield was Cork, Westwood, Brownhill and Stephens we would struggle to stay up: this was when everyone was shouting out for speedy wingers and strikers.
After the transfer window closed in August I said it was a disgrace that we hadn't strenghtened midfield and that we would be facing relegation.
This, together with predictable, boring, defensive tactics from the management team, is, in my opinion, the reason why we are where we are now.

Spot on. Midfield is a real issue for us..but it's not just the personnel we have in there it is the structure of how we play that is holding us back. Our goalscoring record from our central midfielders is dreadful. That isn't just because they aren't good enough but because they are not given licence to get beyond the strikers. We more or less play with two defensive midfielders and our wingers are often expected to be extra full backs. In short we are ridiculously rigid..and that goes back to what another poster said earlier. Dyche is too risk averse and sets us up very defensively. The problem now is they aren't really doing a very good job in that aspect either.

[BabylonClaret]

I think k I agree with Tony here. We have been good at playing effective direct football where we were first and foremost hard to beat.

That makes for some dull football when results aren't the best but it does the job.

Now we've been largely ineffective at this for just about 14 or 15 months (since 2021 started ) as so many have said on here. That is coinciding with our new owners who are trying to sell us as a club worth backing. I think k they have demanded a better style. We've played better than many are giving credit for but we are more open defensively and the squad we have struggles to manage that through a full game.

We are ****** if we don't stop shipping goals and I thi k we are double ****** if we go down with this debt. If we go down I am worried it will kill us

[BabylonClaret]

Or to put it another way teams like Norwich Leeds and Fulham play nice open football but they atill don't win much because they also concede lots and when the goals don't come they drop like a stone

[DCWat]

Our squad is ageing, the midfield is weak and it’s showing on the pitch. We don’t have the levels to keep it up for ninety minutes.

[dsr]

Oh absolutely, while we fail to muster a good chance of our own making against Brentford, they are smashing 3 in at one of the leagues best defences.

To be fair, Leeds didn't muster a good chance of their own making either. At least, all their goals relied on the idea of the defenders standing aside and letting them have the ball. If Brentford had defended like that, we would have won.

[Les Lawrence]

Leeds heading towards championship under Bielsa,,There directors show some balls and sack him, Burnley heading towards championship keep manager after 3 wins all season,and sleepwalk to relegation

[RVclaret]

To be fair, Leeds didn't muster a good chance of their own making either. At least, all their goals relied on the idea of the defenders standing aside and letting them have the ball. If Brentford had defended like that, we would have won.

Yet when we played wolves away we barely had a shot on goal let alone score

[Guitargeorge]

City is now a must win game!

[CrosspoolClarets]

Lots of panic and despair after last night (I feel it too, as will the players).

But I’ve written on here a few times recently that the mindset has to be a points target without looking at other teams. 38 points. As ever. Hit it, you probably stay up, don’t, you deserve to go down.

That’s 5 wins and 2 draws from 11 games.

Very possible, especially as many teams begin to be “on the beach”.

I don’t view City as a “must” anything, but Everton probably is now.

[Jakubclaret]

Lots of panic and despair after last night (I feel it too, as will the players).

But I’ve written on here a few times recently that the mindset has to be a points target without looking at other teams. 38 points. As ever. Hit it, you probably stay up, don’t, you deserve to go down.

That’s 5 wins and 2 draws from 11 games.

Very possible, especially as many teams begin to be “on the beach”.

I don’t view City as a “must” anything, but Everton probably is now.

This idyllic beach that you think some teams will be on when we play them does that only apply to our fixtures? Nobody else will get a easy ride such as Watford, Leeds or Everton from the beach trippers.

[nyclaret]

Lots of panic and despair after last night (I feel it too, as will the players).

But I’ve written on here a few times recently that the mindset has to be a points target without looking at other teams. 38 points. As ever. Hit it, you probably stay up, don’t, you deserve to go down.

That’s 5 wins and 2 draws from 11 games.

Very possible, especially as many teams begin to be “on the beach”.

I don’t view City as a “must” anything, but Everton probably is now.

Very possible? It’s just not though, is it? We’ve won how many games over the past 18 months? And now you’re asking for 5 wins and 2 draws from 11. It’s not happening. This squad of players have ran their course. There’s no character and no will. Accept relegation and rebuild.

[beddie]

City is now a must win game!

[Jakubclaret]

Until it’s mathematically confirmed you’ll get some people conjuring up wild permutations on how we’ll get out of the position we’ve put ourselves in.

[box_of_frogs]

Put another record on

This one is called “We deserve to be where we are”

[gandhisflipflop]

Another nail in the coffin last night without kicking a ball.

[Woodleyclaret]

We are on bad spot but we will pull out of it.
City at home I think we will win and Everton aswell followed by 3 points v Norwich that's 30 and looking good again.

[ClaretMov]

The record has nothing to do with Leeds scoring in stoppage time but another poster who just can't wait to have a go. Of course we wanted Wolves to win but there's nothing we can do about what's happened. It's as if some on this board just can't wait for us to go down so they can tell us that they told us so.

A blind man could tell you are going down since half way through last season, we've been shocking since January 2021

[ClaretMov]

We are on bad spot but we will pull out of it.
City at home I think we will win and Everton aswell followed by 3 points v Norwich that's 30 and looking good again.

Win against City, Do you think we're playing Bradford or Exeter next

[bfcjg]

Win against City, Do you think we're playing Bradford or Exeter next

Or even Lincoln...................oh hang a minute that was another Dyche masterclass.

[Murger]

We are on bad spot but we will pull out of it.
City at home I think we will win and Everton aswell followed by 3 points v Norwich that's 30 and looking good again.

Dreamer.
Dyche might be the reason we've spent so long in the Premier League, but he's also the reason we've been shite for over 18 months. His out-dated dinosaur tactics and blind stubbornness to change things when they are going wrong, is the reason we are going down. He's the man and has to be seen to be the man.

[randomclaret2]

Lots of panic and despair after last night (I feel it too, as will the players).

But I’ve written on here a few times recently that the mindset has to be a points target without looking at other teams. 38 points. As ever. Hit it, you probably stay up, don’t, you deserve to go down.

That’s 5 wins and 2 draws from 11 games.

Very possible, especially as many teams begin to be “on the beach”.

I don’t view City as a “must” anything, but Everton probably is now.

Not sure about " on the beach " .Not many Premier League teams simply give up once they are safe from relegation , like we did last season.
.

[Newcastleclaret93]

We are on bad spot but we will pull out of it.
City at home I think we will win and Everton aswell followed by 3 points v Norwich that's 30 and looking good again.

Win vs city? Hahaha this has got to be a wind up

[gandhisflipflop]

Latest odds

[Bordeauxclaret]

Not sure about " on the beach " .Not many Premier League teams simply give up once they are safe from relegation , like we did last season.
.

I wonder what our record is like when we’ve nothing left to achieve near the end of the season other than a higher position in our time in this league.
We certainly seem to switch off. Even when we secured 7th.

[Billy Balfour]

Now that isn’t going to happen. They have started to implode. Tenth place finish for them, trust me. A local Derby beckons but I won’t be going to Ewood on some crummy old 1980’s double decker.

I don't think they will either. I was just showing the depths my despair had sunk to.

I agree, re Deadwood. Not only that, but I'm not giving up hours of my precious free time to be shepherded around like a convicted prisoner, just to go 10 miles down the road. A journey that usually takes me 20 minutes or so.

[lakedistrictclaret]

I haven't been to Ewood since the bubble system was introduced.

But derbies next season at Preston Blackpool and Wigan look quite inviting.

[Les Lawrence]

100% Dyches fault when we go down this year .His record over last 2 seasons is **** .And he would have been potted at any other club.Highly paid ,one track pony,who's been found out.Still some still think the sun shines out of his arse

[Tall Paul]

Latest odds

A ton of money to be made if we're 100% definitely down as some seem to think.

[BurnleyFC]

The question now has to be how long we give Sean and his back room team next season to turn things around (if indeed he is still our manager next year)

We have to be in and around the play offs come Christmas time or he simply has to go.

[Indecisive]

Leeds heading towards championship under Bielsa,,There directors show some balls and sack him, Burnley heading towards championship keep manager after 3 wins all season,and sleepwalk to relegation

Thing is, if you were in charge we’d never have made the premier league again as you’d have sacked Dyche after that first half a season.

Not sacking Dyche has been key to such a long run in the premier league and the top ten finishes.

[ClaretTony]

This one is called “We deserve to be where we are”

We are exactly where we deserve to be but it amazes me some seem to revel in it.

[Les Lawrence]

Who says we wouldn't have come straight back up under another manager?He's not the only manager to ever do it,

[BurnleyFC]

We are exactly where we deserve to be but it amazes me some seem to revel in it.

No Burnley fan will be revelling in our current situation. I think you’re mistaking it for panic.

Relegation normally wouldn’t be the end of the world but with the current owners and the way the debt is structured it’s looking pretty ominous.

[Billy Balfour]

There's no way Sean will be sacked if we go down. Why would we sack a manager who already has two Championship promotions on his CV, plus years of EPL experience? And yes, it is the years of underinvestment that have come back to bite us, even though some on here don't like to admit it.

He'll be given another chance to get us back, and I'd be mighty pead-off if Pace & Co didn't give him that chance. It will be a different story come December if we are struggling in the Championship and promotion doesn't look likely.

[TheFamilyCat]

No Burnley fan will be revelling in our current situation. I think you’re mistaking it for panic.

Relegation normally wouldn’t be the end of the world but with the current owners and the way the debt is structured it’s looking pretty ominous.

Maybe not revelling in it but there are some posters who seem to place a higher importance on being able to say "I told you so" than the actual fortunes of the club.