Mike Garlick

[ClaretTony]

The trouble is, it would appear that the cash in the bank wasn't being built up for the benefit of the club, just for certain individuals

As far as I can see the current owners haven't done anything so badly wrong in the day to day running of the club, to justify people's changing opinion of the club, so that now everything that happens seems to get criticised

Agree with the first part of that.

[taio]

Agree with the first part of that.

Was the takeover not contigent on the build up of cash reserves?

[ClaretPete001]

Just to ease a few concerns on here about the finances if we go down. These are purely forecasts based on 1. Our recent accounts 2. West Brom’s recent accounts (shows how they adapted to loss of tv income, commerical income decreases, wage cuts etc).

Income

Broadcasting: 53 (includes 55% of PL TV money as year 1 parachute payments)
Ticket sales: 5
Commerical: 10

Turnover: 68

Wages: 40 (approx 90m in our last accounts which also includes large bonus’ for staying up, I’ve forecasted 10%, bringing the actual wage bill to around 80m, then a 50% wage cut)
Other expenses: 12
Interest payable: 5.4 (9% of 60m)

Expenses: 56.4

EBITDA: 11.6

I’m missing player amortisation off here and profit on player sales, which is on the real accounts, as it’s hard to know how deals this year got accounted for and which payments will have finished by the time of new accounts. But total in v total out would give a ‘net spend’ of 5m following the Wood sale.

That above suggests an 11.6m ‘profit’ (it won’t be after tax etc and not sure on amortisation / player profits) but also don’t forget interest on debt is tax deductible which acts in our favour - perhaps one of the accountants can shed more light on that assumption. Overall, year 1 in the Champ our finances don’t look that bad. I haven’t factored into the 50% wage cut 10 OOC players too and some big earners literally leaving, our 50% cut might even be bigger.

Plus I’d expect at least a couple of players to be sold, McNeil, Cornet possibly, Pope maybe. All would give substantial cash to provide a buffer for the following season, should be not good up, but also more than enough to build a very good squad.

We've been through this RV I think that is very optimistic even with 50 per cent relegation clauses West Brom made a loss.

But the real issues is that we are going to loss another £50 million quid's worth of Broadcasting revenue in years 2 and 3. And MSDs debt and ALKs management charges.

So, update your revenue forecast for years 2 and 3 and take £50 million off the very very optimistic 11.6 profit in year 1 in the Championship and you will have a more accurate picture of the club over the next 3 years.

[Willieonthewing]

Agree with the first part of that.

If we take away the financial issues, which to be fair none is know all the details, what have the new owners done so badly that you cannot agree with the second point

[daveisaclaret]

If we take away the financial issues, which to be fair none is know all the details, what have the new owners done so badly that you cannot agree with the second point

"But other than that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?"

[Rodleydave]

RV Claret how did Dyche force the chairman into a sale?
Just let me check... that is what you wrote?

[RVclaret]

RV Claret how did Dyche force the chairman into a sale?
Just let me check... that is what you wrote?

Just going off comments made on here suggesting it was either one or the other that had to leave, and due to Dyche’s power within the club, it had to be Garlick.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Just going off comments made on here suggesting it was either one or the other that had to leave, and due to Dyche’s power within the club, it had to be Garlick.

It didn't have to be Garlick, he could've potted Dyche anytime he liked.

He chose to sell the club, nothing was forced.

[Jakubclaret]

Just going off comments made on here suggesting it was either one or the other that had to leave, and due to Dyche’s power within the club, it had to be Garlick.

It’s a strange situation somebody having so much power & influence within a club the closest resemblance is SAF at Manchester United, for some strange reason large sections of the fanbase are/were conditioned into thinking that other managers don’t exist beyond SD & couldn’t replicate or replace him here the idea of somebody else is unthinkable.

[taio]

It’s a strange situation somebody having so much power & influence within a club the closest resemblance is SAF at Manchester United, for some strange reason large sections of the fanbase are/were conditioned into thinking that other managers don’t exist beyond SD & couldn’t replicate or replace him here the idea of somebody else is unthinkable.

If comparing to Ferguson and United, the concerns from a large proportion of their supporters about potential demise of the club after Ferguson have been proven right.

[Jakubclaret]

If comparing to Ferguson and United, the concerns from a large proportion of their supporters about potential demise of the club after Ferguson have been proven right.

Yes but without factoring the massive amounts of money that’s been pumped into Chelsea & Man City & Liverpool since SAF retired, it’s not down to 1 bloke calling it a day it’s also down to a combination of teams spending hell of a lot of money overtaking them.

[Stayingup]

I forgot to add, Pace etc have tried to sign midfielders across the last few windows, it's just the signings haven't been completed

Yes they thought they had the Croation lad all tied up but were let down for whatever reasons.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Yes but without factoring the massive amounts of money that’s been pumped into Chelsea & Man City & Liverpool since SAF retired, it’s not down to 1 bloke calling it a day it’s also down to a combination of teams spending hell of a lot of money overtaking them.

Fergie retired knowing they needed another squad overhaul, probably why he thought Moyes was the right man for the job.
The Utd fans didn't have the patience for that and the club panicked and pulled the trigger on him.
Since then they've have a very disjointed transfer strategy.

That, combined with the rise of other clubs, is why Utd haven't won a title since Fergie

[Jakubclaret]

Fergie retired knowing they needed another squad overhaul, probably why he thought Moyes was the right man for the job.
The Utd fans didn't have the patience for that and the club panicked and pulled the trigger on him.
Since then they've have a very disjointed transfer strategy.

That, combined with the rise of other clubs, is why Utd haven't won a title since Fergie

That’s true, it’s nothing like the situation mirroring here if dyche left turf moor as tiao seemed to be suggesting decline wise.

[taio]

That’s true, it’s nothing like the situation mirroring here if dyche left turf moor as tiao seemed to be suggesting decline wise.

You made the comparison not me

[Jakubclaret]

You made the comparison not me

I made a comparison you decided to inexplicably forecast a decline like for like club to club upon a potential SD departure implying we would go down that same road as Manchester United if we parted ways.

[ClaretTony]

If we take away the financial issues, which to be fair none is know all the details, what have the new owners done so badly that you cannot agree with the second point

You can’t take away the financial issues.

[taio]

I made a comparison you decided to inexplicably forecast a decline like for like club to club upon a potential SD departure implying we would go down that same road as Manchester United if we parted ways.

No I didn't

[Willieonthewing]

You can’t take away the financial issues.

So the way they purchased the club is the only problem you have with the owners?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

You can’t take away the financial issues.

For the sake of discussion we could.

[Willieonthewing]

For the sake of discussion we could.

Of course we could
I personally don't have any problem with the day to day running of the club, others obviously do, and I'd find it interesting what changes have been made that people disagree with, and why.

[DCWat]

Yes they thought they had the Croation lad all tied up but were let down for whatever reasons.

Hardly the midfield reinforcements that weee needed. Central midfield is a glaring problem and one that needed sorting - we haven’t and it’s why we are where we are.

Each of of soon to be three relegations are as a result of not having the necessary quality in midfield.

We’ve not learned.

[jedi_master]

I think the financial issues and removal of many, many key and experienced staff somewhat squash the ‘pluses’ from ALK which include, off the top of my head:

- Ridiculous swathes of LED lighting
- Painted turnstiles
- Walls being painted black
- Random NFL players being brought in as ‘investors’ Never to be heard from again
- Womens football being available on TikTok (which will, I assume, be getting a regular audience somewhere between 7-18 people?)
- Letting Vizeh co-commentate with Phil Bird
- Marketing eSports
- Replacing the old ‘next match’ board

The only plus I genuinely give them is tying down Sean Dyche to a new contract. In retrospect, with performances on the pitch since, you’d have to say Dyche has had the better end of that deal too (even though I’m all for giving him a shot in the Championship). The transfer activity has produced nothing of note bar Collins who looks a player.

As said, plunging us into debt that we cannot hope to manage without selling every good player we have surely trumps any of the random ‘good things’ that they have done?

[Willieonthewing]

I think the financial issues and removal of many, many key and experienced staff somewhat squash the ‘pluses’ from ALK which include, off the top of my head:

- Ridiculous swathes of LED lighting
- Painted turnstiles
- Walls being painted black
- Random NFL players being brought in as ‘investors’ Never to be heard from again
- Womens football being available on TikTok (which will, I assume, be getting a regular audience somewhere between 7-18 people?)
- Letting Vizeh co-commentate with Phil Bird
- Marketing eSports
- Replacing the old ‘next match’ board

The only plus I genuinely give them is tying down Sean Dyche to a new contract. In retrospect, with performances on the pitch since, you’d have to say Dyche has had the better end of that deal too (even though I’m all for giving him a shot in the Championship). The transfer activity has produced nothing of note bar Collins who looks a player.

As said, plunging us into debt that we cannot hope to manage without selling every good player we have surely trumps any of the random ‘good things’ that they have done?

If the best you can come up with is the colour of the turnstiles and walls then all is not bad

When reffering to the LED lights you mean the adverts, then we need as much income away from Premier league as we can

I know nothing about female football, or Phil birds commentary so cannot comment on those as they have no affect on me, likewise I don't go past the next match board, but I don't think when I did, I took much notice of it.

No mention of season ticket prices, or fans involment in attempting to improve the ticketing?

Of the staff you refer to, I think a few needed replacing, others would leave because they didn't like change, but were any actually sacked?

[Newcastleclaret93]

If the best you can come up with is the colour of the turnstiles and walls then all is not bad

When reffering to the LED lights you mean the adverts, then we need as much income away from Premier league as we can

I know nothing about female football, or Phil birds commentary so cannot comment on those as they have no affect on me, likewise I don't go past the next match board, but I don't think when I did, I took much notice of it.

No mention of season ticket prices, or fans involment in attempting to improve the ticketing?

Of the staff you refer to, I think a few needed replacing, others would leave because they didn't like change, but were any actually sacked?

So after 18 months of ownership our big positive is some led boards. Brilliant.

If only them Led boards could play CM

[fidelcastro]

So after 18 months of ownership our big positive is some led boards. Brilliant.

If only them Led boards could play CM

I don't see how it affects you. You don't even bother attending, do you?

[Newcastleclaret93]

I don't see how it affects you. You don't even bother attending, do you?

Been plenty of times this season, but yes I’m glad I gave up my season ticket. I won’t be getting a season ticket next year either.

Why pay hard earned money to watch the worst football in country.

[fidelcastro]

Been plenty of times this season, but yes I’m glad I gave up my season ticket. I won’t be getting a season ticket next year either.

Why pay hard earned money to watch the worst football in country.

With an attitude like yours, you won't be missed.

[jedi_master]

If the best you can come up with is the colour of the turnstiles and walls then all is not bad

When reffering to the LED lights you mean the adverts, then we need as much income away from Premier league as we can

I know nothing about female football, or Phil birds commentary so cannot comment on those as they have no affect on me, likewise I don't go past the next match board, but I don't think when I did, I took much notice of it.

No mention of season ticket prices, or fans involment in attempting to improve the ticketing?

Of the staff you refer to, I think a few needed replacing, others would leave because they didn't like change, but were any actually sacked?

I think you misunderstand, that is indeed the BEST I can come up with - as in, those are the good things that ALK have done.


That is not intended to be a list of bad things - though it’s easy to see how some could interpret it that way.

[Newcastleclaret93]

With an attitude like yours, you won't be missed.

Not an attitude at all.

Used to love going with all the lads. Very few of us can justify the expense to watch what has been on show for the last few years.

[fidelcastro]

Not an attitude at all.

Used to love going with all the lads. Very few of us can justify the expense to watch what has been on show for the last few years.

"Worst football in the country"

Get a grip man.

[KRBFC]

No mention of season ticket prices, or fans involment in attempting to improve the ticketing?

?

[Newcastleclaret93]

"Worst football in the country"

Get a grip man.

Yes that is correct. Statistically we have won the fewest games and returned the fewest points over the last 18 months.

The style is not pleasing to watch either.

[dsr]

The big problem with the owners is that they are investors. In the USA, sports club owners expect to make money out of it, both in withdrawing income from the club and in selling at a profit later. That's what our investors are in it for - the money. They want to make profits. I expect the directors are getting paid, I expect that ALK is taking fees out of the club - when the accounts come out we will know, at least for 2020-21, how much if any. But if you get a vanity owner who just wants to own the club and isn't in it for the money, you are several million better off in not paying his fees. Until Garlick took that fortune out of the club, one of his biggest "selling points" was that he wasn't taking money out.

[fidelcastro]

Yes that is correct. Statistically we have won the fewest games and returned the fewest points over the last 18 months.

The style is not pleasing to watch either.

We were always going to get relegated eventually. Clubs our size always do.

The "style" you so easily deride has given us six seasons in a row at this level, so it must've worked at some point. I think you must watch too much 'tica taca' on the telly, as you just sound like a football snob in the Arsene wenger mould.

[Willieonthewing]

I think you misunderstand, that is indeed the BEST I can come up with - as in, those are the good things that ALK have done.


That is not intended to be a list of bad things - though it’s easy to see how some could interpret it that way.

Sorry, my mistake, when the first thing was the.. Ridiculous lighting I didn't realise you meant that as a good thing
As I said I would add season ticket prices, fan involment in certain aspects, the ground does look more up to date, more willing to look at different markets for players.

[Willieonthewing]

?

By the poster

[Newcastleclaret93]

We were always going to get relegated eventually. Clubs our size always do.

The "style" you so easily deride has given us six seasons in a row at this level, so it must've worked at some point. I think you must watch too much 'tica taca' on the telly, as you just sound like a football snob in the Arsene wenger mould.

The style of football has got progressively worse since we qualified for Europe. If you can justify spending what you do for a match day then great.

For me to get to a game and home it’s roughly £100 a match day at least. I don’t bother going to every game now as none of my mates are interested and the football is boring. If that means I can no longer have an opinion then fair enough.

[Jakubclaret]

If comparing to Ferguson and United, the concerns from a large proportion of their supporters about potential demise of the club after Ferguson have been proven right.

Purely in terms of a departure sense I don’t see any correlation or likeness to both situations because the circumstances are different, my comparison was purely based upon the stranglehold in a controlling sense both managers have/had. The major reason things have gone on a sh1t slope since SAF left is because of the funding other teams have invested.

[taio]

Purely in terms of a departure sense I don’t see any correlation or likeness to both situations because the circumstances are different, my comparison was purely based upon the stranglehold in a controlling sense both managers have/had. The major reason things have gone on a sh1t slope since SAF left is because of the funding other teams have invested.

The other teams were spending vast sums of money when Ferguson was there, and Man United have spent vast sums of money since he departed. The biggest difference to City and Liverpool is the quality of their managers and the opposite is true of Man United when compared to one of the best managers ever. While there of course other factors at play the greatest factor has been down to manager capability.

[Rileybobs]

Question for the accountants;

Had the club spent, say £50m of its reserves on playing staff, would the valuation of the club have decreased? It seems, to a layman, that the valuation of the club would remain roughly the same as we would have an additional £50m worth of assets.

Obviously the cash in the bank was necessary for the takeover of the club, as it appears that there were only two interested parties and neither had the funds to outright purchase the club.

Therefore the previous board all received market value for their shares, as they deserved to. Not sure how anyone can dispute that. People’s gripe seems to be where the money came from, but it seems pretty clear to me that no money in the bank=no sale. Which would have been fine by me, by the way. But I guarantee a lot of you who are sniping were part of the ‘Garlick Out’ mob.

[Swizzlestick]

Purely in terms of a departure sense I don’t see any correlation or likeness to both situations because the circumstances are different, my comparison was purely based upon the stranglehold in a controlling sense both managers have/had. The major reason things have gone on a sh1t slope since SAF left is because of the funding other teams have invested.

United have been the fourth highest spenders in world football over the last ten years, being broadly the time since Ferguson retired

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... 882410.amp

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Utd have spent £1 billion since Fergie left on players.

[Jakubclaret]

The other teams were spending vast sums of money when Ferguson was there, and Man United have spent vast sums of money since he departed. The biggest difference to City and Liverpool is the quality of their managers and the opposite is true of Man United when compared to one of the best managers ever. While there of course other factors at play the greatest factor has been down to manager capability.

That’s true to certain degree money was spent elsewhere during SAF tenure but you will notice the substantial increase coupled with United spending less, SAF was a top quality manager but United didn’t go bad overnight due to him retiring other teams started spending far more after he retired.

[taio]

That’s true to certain degree money was spent elsewhere during SAF tenure but you will notice the substantial increase coupled with United spending less, SAF was a top quality manager but United didn’t go bad overnight due to him retiring other teams started spending far more after he retired.

Manager capability far bigger factor than money. Those clubs have consistently spent huge sums of money before and after Ferguson retired.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Question for the accountants;

Had the club spent, say £50m of its reserves on playing staff, would the valuation of the club have decreased? It seems, to a layman, that the valuation of the club would remain roughly the same as we would have an additional £50m worth of assets.

Obviously the cash in the bank was necessary for the takeover of the club, as it appears that there were only two interested parties and neither had the funds to outright purchase the club.

Therefore the previous board all received market value for their shares, as they deserved to. Not sure how anyone can dispute that. People’s gripe seems to be where the money came from, but it seems pretty clear to me that no money in the bank=no sale. Which would have been fine by me, by the way. But I guarantee a lot of you who are sniping were part of the ‘Garlick Out’ mob.

This an interesting read....

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... k#p1390448

[KRBFC]

But I guarantee a lot of you who are sniping were part of the ‘Garlick Out’ mob.

I was certainly in the Garlick out mob after we spent £1m in the summer window on Stephens, probably more ''Garlick sort it out'' than ''out'' actually. That doesn't mean I wanted a leveraged buyout, I was all for ALK until I read the reports around the finances of the deal. Is there another deal in the history of English football where it's been a leveraged buyout (aside from Man United)?

[dsr]

Question for the accountants;

Had the club spent, say £50m of its reserves on playing staff, would the valuation of the club have decreased? It seems, to a layman, that the valuation of the club would remain roughly the same as we would have an additional £50m worth of assets.

Obviously the cash in the bank was necessary for the takeover of the club, as it appears that there were only two interested parties and neither had the funds to outright purchase the club.

Therefore the previous board all received market value for their shares, as they deserved to. Not sure how anyone can dispute that. People’s gripe seems to be where the money came from, but it seems pretty clear to me that no money in the bank=no sale. Which would have been fine by me, by the way. But I guarantee a lot of you who are sniping were part of the ‘Garlick Out’ mob.

If we had spent money on players, then the value of the club the day before the sale would have been no different. That's not the issue at all.

The point about people who don't like the way it was done is that the day after the sale, the club was worth £100m less than it had been and £100m that had been generated out of club profits (or could have been borrowed on the strength of future profits) and could have been used for club benefit, was sitting instead in Garlick's (and john B's) bank accounts. Garlick could equally have taken out £10m salary for each of 10 years with the same effect on BFC.

There's no need for snide remarks like the last sentence.

[BurnleyFC]

Garlick and Pace have both done brilliantly out of this deal. The actual football club, not so much.

[taio]

Question for the accountants;

Had the club spent, say £50m of its reserves on playing staff, would the valuation of the club have decreased? It seems, to a layman, that the valuation of the club would remain roughly the same as we would have an additional £50m worth of assets.

Obviously the cash in the bank was necessary for the takeover of the club, as it appears that there were only two interested parties and neither had the funds to outright purchase the club.

Therefore the previous board all received market value for their shares, as they deserved to. Not sure how anyone can dispute that. People’s gripe seems to be where the money came from, but it seems pretty clear to me that no money in the bank=no sale. Which would have been fine by me, by the way. But I guarantee a lot of you who are sniping were part of the ‘Garlick Out’ mob.

There were plenty of 'Garlick In' mob