How many current prem managers as well as SD would........

[Boss Hogg]

As people keep saying be careful what you wish for. With a different manager we could have won 1 or 2 in 27 instead of the 3 in 27 that Dyche has achieved this season.

The probability is that we probably wouldn’t have a worse record.

[s6t9a2f3f]

The OP is Dyche out, always has been and any time we hit a rough patch the OP appears and makes threads slating Dyche off etc, like this one, which is clearly a Dyche out thread.
When we do well the OP quietens down and pretty much disappears

Exact opposite don't want SD to be able to take the easy way out, take the millions we have paid him over the years and leave the next manager with what to work with on the pitch ??
Mcneil gone from a 50m player to a 5m, we have lost one of the best we have had in tarks for nothing, will cornet want to play in championship ? And don't be naive with the "he is under contract" we know who has the power, will pope in a world Cup year want to stay ?
SD mess so let him earn the big bucks as he will be the highest paid manager in the championship no doubt.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Exact opposite don't want SD to be able to take the easy way out, take the millions we have paid him over the years and leave the next manager with what to work with on the pitch ??
Mcneil gone from a 50m player to a 5m, we have lost one of the best we have had in tarks for nothing, will cornet want to play in championship ? And don't be naive with the "he is under contract" we know who has the power, will pope in a world Cup year want to stay ?
SD mess so let him earn the big bucks as he will be the highest paid manager in the championship no doubt.

If we were higher up the table we wouldn't hear from you, that's a fact.

[boatshed bill]

Brighton -over £200 million in debt to Bloom, don't own their ground or training facilities last I checked.
Brentford - over £60 million in debt to their owner....

Both ran so well that without rich owners they'd be in the lower leagues still.

We always get these spending comparisons.
Thing is that the Brighton and Brentford fans won't care about debt if they watch reasonable PL football from their teams next season.

[s6t9a2f3f]

If we were higher up the table we wouldn't hear from you, that's a fact.

Lol well if there was a forum when we beat Leyton orient at home to stay in the league back in 1987 we wouldn't have heard from you - as you wasn't there.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Lol well if there was a forum when we beat Leyton orient at home to stay in the league back in 1987 we wouldn't have heard from you - as you wasn't there.

Not sure what point you're trying to make there tbh and that game is no longer relevant in this day and age
If we stay up this season you'll disappear until the next bad patch, you're fairly predictable like that.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

We always get these spending comparisons.
Thing is that the Brighton and Brentford fans won't care about debt if they watch reasonable PL football from their teams next season.

I know they won't give a toss, but people comparing us to those two clubs and others like them aren't looking at the reality of the situation and why those clubs have an inflated league position

[Spijed]

We always get these spending comparisons.
Thing is that the Brighton and Brentford fans won't care about debt if they watch reasonable PL football from their teams next season.

They will if they get relegated.

[boatshed bill]

I know they won't give a toss, but people comparing us to those two clubs and others like them aren't looking at the reality of the situation and why those clubs have an inflated league position

unfortunately too many on here are not using the finances as a comparison, more as an excuse.
Some of us enjoy watching football. it's not about money...
...but if it was then I'd guess that our points over the last two years have cost a hefty some.

[taio]

unfortunately too many on here are not using the finances as a comparison, more as an excuse.
Some of us enjoy watching football. it's not about money...
...but if it was then I'd guess that our points over the last two years have cost a hefty some.

Money has a massive bearing on things including performance whether you like it or not.

[boatshed bill]

Money has a massive bearing on things including performance whether you like it or not.

yes, i totally accept that.
so do effort, talent, imagination. even belief.

we achieved PL status under Coyle with very little money (comparitively speaking)

[GodIsADeeJay81]

unfortunately too many on here are not using the finances as a comparison, more as an excuse.
Some of us enjoy watching football. it's not about money...
...but if it was then I'd guess that our points over the last two years have cost a hefty some.

Our points per £ spend have been better value last time I saw anything

[taio]

yes, i totally accept that.
so do effort, talent, imagination. even belief.

we achieved PL status under Coyle with very little money (comparitively speaking)

And went straight back down

[boatshed bill]

And went straight back down

With all that lovely parachute money.

[taio]

With all that lovely parachute money.

Yes. Not really the point though.

[boatshed bill]

Yes. Not really the point though.

well it certainly helped us build for the next promotion.
We have done very well investing what we have had, what we have in effect earned ourselves.
To achieve 7th proves it's just about possible without billionaires' backing.

[boatshed bill]

They will if they get relegated.

And they will do much the same as the fans of any relegated club, they will find something else to do on a match day.
This of course includes BFC fans.
It's perfectly normal

[KRBFC]

As people keep saying be careful what you wish for. With a different manager we could have won 1 or 2 in 27 instead of the 3 in 27 that Dyche has achieved this season.

What's the difference though? 7 wins in 51 games, 3 wins in 27 this season. It can't get any worse than being relegated and that's where we're heading.

[s6t9a2f3f]

What's the difference though? 7 wins in 51 games, 3 wins in 27 this season. It can't get any worse than being relegated and that's where we're heading.

But apparently there are no other managers in the world that can match these win ratios - never mind dare I say beat them.

[KRBFC]

But apparently there are no other managers in the world that can match these win ratios - never mind dare I say beat them.

Anybody saying that should be banned from speaking about football

[KRBFC]

And went straight back down

Aye because Kilby wouldn't sanction the January signings, he felt he wasn't backed enough to keep us up. I admire his stance on that, ''back me or I'm off, I don't want a relegation on my CV because of you''. Too many managers get comfy with mediocrity, like they're hoping to be sacked rather than doing the noble thing and leaving to protect their own stock. Wenger being the biggest example of that, stuck around for 5 years too long, under backed and just settled for mediocre results. Let's not forget, Coyle turned down Celtic in the summer too, wasn't repaid with the same loyalty from us, he'd have kept us up with Wilshere, Weiss and Holden.

[Jakubclaret]

Money has a massive bearing on things including performance whether you like it or not.

That’s funny your positions drifted from managerial capability amounting to override the money aspect to money’s got a “massive bearing”. Moneys everything in football we just don’t have enough coupled with a lousy manager well past his sell by date & a chairman hocked up to the eyeballs in debt.

[Vegas Claret]

I have long hated the binary bickering on here about the various issues but I thank the lord that we haven't reached this stage yet and hope we never do - for the uninitiated this is about Bale after last nights strong performance for Wales

https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1 ... KMn-spAAAA

I'm still hoping Roberts and Hennessey manage to persuade him to play for us for a season !

[Shaggy]

If you all want to look at it from another angle. Say Dyche had upped and left and Mr New manager comes in and delivers the same set of results as Dyche with the same football would he still
Be here?

[Vegas Claret]

How many managers have earned the right as much as Dyche ? I would say none at all. Doesn't mean I don't think the footy on show is utterly crap though. I'm now at the stage where I don't care either way if he stays or leaves.

[Shaggy]

His credit in the bank so to say got used up a long time ago. He is well into the overdraft now. The reality is nothing is going to change whilst he is in charge.. it’s the same players ( mostly ) playing the same formation set up to stifle the same way with a load of hoofs for good measure.. then on the 83rd minute when we are 2 nil down, SD decides to throw in a tactical gem.. replace a player like for like…. That’ll outfox them.

[taio]

That’s funny your positions drifted from managerial capability amounting to override the money aspect to money’s got a “massive bearing”. Moneys everything in football we just don’t have enough coupled with a lousy manager well past his sell by date & a chairman hocked up to the eyeballs in debt.

It hasn't drifted at all. I'm sure I was on about the vast sums of money that Man United, Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea have spent and, therefore, the biggest difference in their deterioration or improvement was managerial capability. I was saying the main reason for Man United's demise was down to Ferguson leaving and that Man United had spent a massive amount of money since then.

In our case, and in the case of many other clubs, money has a massive bearing which is why Dyche has completely overachieved here.

Strange you can't see the difference.

[Jakubclaret]

It hasn't drifted at all. I'm sure I was on about the vast sums of money that Man United, Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea have spent and, therefore, the biggest difference in their deterioration or improvement was managerial capability. I was saying the main reason for Man United's demise was down to Ferguson leaving and that Man United had spent a massive amount of money since then.

In our case, and in the case of many other clubs, money has a massive bearing which is why Dyche has completely overachieved here.

Strange you can't see the difference.

I can see the difference dyche has previously done brilliant here but now the magics waned & footballs moved on if you are using the past as a blueprint for the future then fair enough. Man United spent great sums of money also under SAF it wasn’t suddenly decided after he did leave let’s start spending money but what did happen is that man Uniteds rivals upped their spending amounts after he left due to the emergence of takeovers & more investment, but United rivals also spent money whilst SAF was in management just more post SAF retirement & some people seem to be missing this & apportioning other teams fortunes upon the actions of SAF retiring whilst missing/ignoring more money being pumped in elsewhere than previous.

[Spijed]

If football has moved on how come we didn't find it any easier to stay in the Prem under Coyle or SD the first time round.

I think you'll find it's no more difficult for clubs to survive now than it was 10-15 years ago.

[boatshed bill]

If football has moved on how come we didn't find it any easier to stay in the Prem under Coyle or SD the first time round.

I think you'll find it's no more difficult for clubs to survive now than it was 10-15 years ago.

so you are somewhat arguing against your regular assertion then?

[Spijed]

so you are somewhat arguing against your regular assertion then?

What assertion is that

[boatshed bill]

What assertion is that

that the increasing number of billionaire chairmen is making it harder for the smaller (less bank-rolled) clubs to survive?

[Spijed]

that the increasing number of billionaire chairmen is making it harder for the smaller (less bank-rolled) clubs to survive?

But that's not the point though, is it?

Some seem to think that it's becoming harder because SD's methods are outdated and football has moved on in terms of management techniques and team formations.

I say that's not the case because teams have always struggled to survive regardless of the style of play.

[Newcastleclaret93]

But that's not the point though, is it?

Some seem to think that it's becoming harder because SD's methods are outdated and football has moved on in terms of management techniques and team formations.

I say that's not the case because teams have always struggled to survive regardless of the style of play.

Spijed will find any possible way to defend Dyche.

[boatshed bill]

But that's not the point though, is it?

Some seem to think that it's becoming harder because SD's methods are outdated and football has moved on in terms of management techniques and team formations.

I say that's not the case because teams have always struggled to survive regardless of the style of play.

It all depends on which particular argument you (anyone) is involved in.
Technically speaking it's no harder than it has been since the PL had 20 clubs 3/20 chance.
you often state that you are happy with 17th.
Some might say it's harder for us due to limited finance.
Some might say it's down to tactical inflexibility.
You have said it's no harder now than it was in previous seasons, which decreases the scale of our achievement, doesn't it?

[Spijed]

It all depends on which particular argument you (anyone) is involved in.
Technically speaking it's no harder than it has been since the PL had 20 clubs 3/20 chance.
you often state that you are happy with 17th.
Some might say it's harder for us due to limited finance.
Some might say it's down to tactical inflexibility.
You have said it's no harder now than it was in previous seasons, which decreases the scale of our achievement, doesn't it?

It's no different from season to season, because for a club our size just to survive should always be seen as a major achievement. It's not getting harder as it was always very tough to begin with.

[Spijed]

Spijed will find any possible way to defend Dyche.

I'd rather defend someone who achieved a miracle in getting a club of our size to finish 7th

[Newcastleclaret93]

I'd rather defend someone who achieved a miracle in getting a club of our size to finish 7th

Michael Owen once scored a lot of goals as well

[boatshed bill]

I'd rather defend someone who achieved a miracle in getting a club of our size to finish 7th

Same here.
So was it easier then?

[RVclaret]

Same here.
So was it easier then?

Possibly yes. That showed a few seasons later when we finished with the same, if not higher, points total but finished 10th. Even since then, you’ve seen the likes of Villa and Leeds promoted and spend upwards of 100m in a single transfer window, before mentioning Saudi FC this season.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Possibly yes. That showed a few seasons later when we finished with the same, if not higher, points total but finished 10th. Even since then, you’ve seen the likes of Villa and Leeds promoted and spend upwards of 100m in a single transfer window, before mentioning Saudi FC this season.

Spijed has previously used the argument that the points required to stay up is actually getting lower. Does that not suggest the league is easier now?

[boatshed bill]

Spijed has previously used the argument that the points required to stay up is actually getting lower. Does that not suggest the league is easier now?

It suggests to me that the weaker teams are finding points harder to accumulate.
Which in turn infers that the work SD has done in recent years is a greater achievement.
Strangely though, staunch SD supporter Spijed disagrees

[Spijed]

Same here.
So was it easier then?

Same as it always, a constant battle. But we had players in our prime. All down to a perfect team ethic that clicked.

Remember a couple of seasons ago Sheff United did very well but collapsed last year. That's the ongoing nature of the league. The difference is under SD, with his realistic style and pragmatic approach we can sometimes do better than expected, but generally 17th is our goal, season after season.

The second season syndrome has been in evidence for a long time and generally smaller teams have always struggled and always will from one year to the next.

But like all clubs, apart from a few we are bound to get relegated as no club can expect to survive long term apart from the usual suspects. But that's been the case for many years.

[Spijed]

It suggests to me that the weaker teams are finding points harder to accumulate.
Which in turn infers that the work SD has done in recent years is a greater achievement.
Strangely though, staunch SD supporter Spijed disagrees

When we got relegated in 18th under Brian Laws we had 30 points which was the lowest since Fulham last year.

In the last 4-5 years the team in 18th has averaged around 34 points which is about a point down than previously.

[boatshed bill]

When we got relegated in 18th under Brian Laws we had 30 points which was the lowest since Fulham last year.

In the last 4-5 years the team in 18th has averaged around 34 points which is about a point down than previously.

we were terribly equipped for the Coyle/Laws PL season, so it's no more a yardsick to measure achievement than the all time low Derby points total.

I suggest that it would be better to total the points gained by the bottom 3 by season.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

https://www.101greatgoals.com/news/how- ... er-league/

This article suggests 36 is still the average

[Spijed]

we were terribly equipped for the Coyle/Laws PL season, so it's no more a yardsick to measure achievement than the all time low Derby points total.

I suggest that it would be better to total the points gained by the bottom 3 by season.

Here's the points totals for the last ten completed seasons for the bottom three combined:

11/12 92 pts
12/13 89
13/14 95
14/15 98
15/16 88
16/17 86
17/18 97
18/19 76
19/20 89
20/21 77

[Shaggy]

I'd rather defend someone who achieved a miracle in getting a club of our size to finish 7th

An awful lot fell our way that season. We got teams at the right times and squeaked a lot of results. But it was more to other teams not performing than us actually performing..

Dyche has been here at least a few years longer than he should have been. We all know it even you. Nothing is going to change and we are hoofing our way back to the championship.

[fidelcastro]

An awful lot fell our way that season. We got teams at the right times and squeaked a lot of results. But it was more to other teams not performing than us actually performing..

Dyche has been here at least a few years longer than he should have been. We all know it even you. Nothing is going to change and we are hoofing our way back to the championship.

I've heard it all now. So we fluked seventh? We didn't deserve it over the course of a season?

Jesus wept

[Shaggy]

I've heard it all now. So we fluked seventh? We didn't deserve it over the course of a season?

Jesus wept

Yea we we fortunate a lot of things fell our way. We didn’t go out and smash teams. We clung on and squeaked results. That’s all we’ve ever done and will do under this 1 dimensional manager.