What will the lasting legacy of ALK be?

[Billy Balfour]

We've done well to stay in the EPL this long, given our very limited resources. The scary thing is that we go down with massive debts. We are ****** if we don't get back before the parachute money runs out.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Exciting times

[RVclaret]

What's the net spend under ALK in the 3 transfer windows? they haven't brought in a single CM or RM? key areas of the squad that needed improving before they arrived. 18 months later haven't been addressed. Talk about under investment...

Their net spend was almost 15m, had the Orsic deal gone through as many believe was expected. And who’s to say Dyche suggested CM wasn’t a priority for him and he was happy to go with the 4 he had? Certainly seems that way to me seen as though close to 0 centre mids were linked.

[KRBFC]

Their net spend was almost 15m, had the Orsic deal gone through as many believe was expected. And who’s to say Dyche suggested CM wasn’t a priority for him and he was happy to go with the 4 he had? Certainly seems that way to me seen as though close to 0 centre mids were linked.

What do you mean almost? lol I asked a simple question. Did Blackburn not almost sign Ronaldinho and Lewandowski?

[RVclaret]

What do you mean almost? lol I asked a simple question. Did Blackburn not almost sign Ronaldinho and Lewandowski?

Just saying they tried to spend the remaining money from the Wood sale, and in the end got screwed over by Zagreb.

[randomclaret2]

Their net spend was almost 15m, had the Orsic deal gone through as many believe was expected. And who’s to say Dyche suggested CM wasn’t a priority for him and he was happy to go with the 4 he had? Certainly seems that way to me seen as though close to 0 centre mids were linked.

I think the actual net spend has been less than £5m, but even had it been nearer to the £15m you suggest, that is still chicken feed in Premier League terms

[Chester Perry]

What's the net spend under ALK in the 3 transfer windows? they haven't brought in a single CM or RM? key areas of the squad that needed improving before they arrived. 18 months later haven't been addressed. Talk about under investment...

not meaning to fan the flames, a little game for you
Is the net spend to date?

- considerably less than the annual interest payment to MSD
- less than the increase in the wage bill as a result of ALK actions
- less than Sean Dyche's new salary
- probably less than a third of the reported actual cash of their own that VSL invested in the takeover
- less than half of the value of the staged payment due to be made to the sellers last month
- probably less than the cost of the refurbishment of the hospitality suites last summer (money put aside under Garlick)
- possibly similar to the cost of all those LED boards and their instalation
- less than we receive for shirt sponsorship

[ChristheViking]

Well nobody knows for sure but the strong balance of probability is that we will be in deep financial doo-doo. ALK have paid WAY over the odds to make the takeover happen, and have loaded the club up with debt to pay for it.

It looks like an enormous gamble. Credit where it's due, some of the ideas Alan Pace is bringing forward are actually quite interesting (AIScout, blockchain, etc) but if the short to medium term future of the club rests on them... that to me is terrifying.

My personal nickname for Alan Pace is "Walter Mitty"... seems like a nice bloke but seems to have a head full of fantastical dreams. I heard a credible report of him telling local business people that we'll be better off in the Championship because of wage cuts. This does not inspire confidence. The only way this gamble has any chance of working is if we retain Premier League status. Under the old model, relegation was bad news. Under the new model, it will little short of disastrous.

Agree with all this. This $90m debt is not going away and I simply don't see how we can pay the money back if we go down. Pope will go. McNeil will go. We gambled on Tarkowski but a 40m asset is going to walk for nothing. But it doesn't clear the debt.

What puzzles me now as it puzzled me then is how/why were the Club's Finances be allowed to buy Garlick out. That was the Club's money. I have never understood how it was allowed to be used to pay for the sale. ALK/Dell should have had to pay Garlick without taking the family silver - and if they couldn't then no sale.

As for Pace the impression I get is that he is a good guy. His PR is good. Plenty of fans speak well of him. And that's good and I think in this day and age it's important too. But the debt question doesn't go away. how do we cut our cloth accordingly with that amount of debt - and would anyone else be even remotely interested in taking that debt on?

[Papabendi]

not meaning to fan the flames, a little game for you
Is the net spend to date?

- considerably less than the annual interest payment to MSD
- less than the increase in the wage bill as a result of ALK actions
- less than Sean Dyche's new salary
- probably less than a third of the reported actual cash of their own that VSL invested in the takeover
- less than half of the value of the staged payment due to be made to the sellers last month
- probably less than the cost of the refurbishment of the hospitality suites last summer (money put aside under Garlick)
- possibly similar to the cost of all those LED boards and their instalation
- less than we receive for shirt sponsorship

Probably all

[RVclaret]

I think the actual net spend has been less than £5m, but even had it been nearer to the £15m you suggest, that is still chicken feed in Premier League terms

Oh absolutely. It’s clear they don’t appear to have the funds to invest big sums themselves. I suppose their strategy is more, find value and then on sell at profits when the opportunities arise. We’ve got to be a selling club again and hope a better scouting system / willingness to look abroad can find some talent.

[Chester Perry]

Probably all

Carlsberg is the the answer

[randomclaret2]

not meaning to fan the flames, a little game for you
Is the net spend to date?

- considerably less than the annual interest payment to MSD
- less than the increase in the wage bill as a result of ALK actions
- less than Sean Dyche's new salary
- probably less than a third of the reported actual cash of their own that VSL invested in the takeover
- less than half of the value of the staged payment due to be made to the sellers last month
- probably less than the cost of the refurbishment of the hospitality suites last summer (money put aside under Garlick)
- possibly similar to the cost of all those LED boards and their instalation
- less than we receive for shirt sponsorship

I'd say the answer is " all of them"

[KRBFC]

not meaning to fan the flames, a little game for you
Is the net spend to date?

- considerably less than the annual interest payment to MSD
- less than the increase in the wage bill as a result of ALK actions
- less than Sean Dyche's new salary
- probably less than a third of the reported actual cash of their own that VSL invested in the takeover
- less than half of the value of the staged payment due to be made to the sellers last month
- probably less than the cost of the refurbishment of the hospitality suites last summer (money put aside under Garlick)
- possibly similar to the cost of all those LED boards and their instalation
- less than we receive for shirt sponsorship

People talk about investment on players, I'm asking, what investment? Pace came out and said they weren't planning to add during January until we lost Chris Wood, I swear we were bottom of the league at the start of January, that tells you all you need to know.

[spt_claret]

What's the net spend under ALK in the 3 transfer windows? they haven't brought in a single CM or RM? key areas of the squad that needed improving before they arrived. 18 months later haven't been addressed. Talk about under investment...

Lay off poor Alan. He allegedly had a flight to Zagreb to ask Orsic to come. That's definitely not just a PR stunt.

Their net spend was almost 15m, had the Orsic deal gone through as many believe was expected. And who’s to say Dyche suggested CM wasn’t a priority for him and he was happy to go with the 4 he had? Certainly seems that way to me seen as though close to 0 centre mids were linked.

But it didn't go through.
As for centre midfield we were linked with Barkley, Alli, Ramsey, that Millwall lad, an Ivorian CM in France, a Brazillian CAM, and I believe another French CM. Remarkable that Alan really really tried hard to sign them but Dyche wasn't bothered.

[Spijed]

Oh absolutely. It’s clear they don’t appear to have the funds to invest big sums themselves. I suppose their strategy is more, find value and then on sell at profits when the opportunities arise. We’ve got to be a selling club again and hope a better scouting system / willingness to look abroad can find some talent.

One thing that will take time is the academy. Even being Cat 1 will take several years to start unearthing players of real quality.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Would imagine Cornet would be in the fire sale as well and anybody else we can get money for ( however little) and they will be replaced by cheap free transfers on low wages

[RVclaret]

Lay off poor Alan. He allegedly had a flight to Zagreb to ask Orsic to come. That's definitely not just a PR stunt.

But it didn't go through.
As for centre midfield we were linked with Barkley, Alli, Ramsey, that Millwall lad, an Ivorian CM in France, a Brazillian CAM, and I believe another French CM. Remarkable that Alan really really tried hard to sign them but Dyche wasn't bothered.

1. Many would have you believe that deal was almost done and Zagreb pulled the plug at the last minute. You can call it a PR stunt if you want but I think that’s utterly moronic.

2. Alli and Barkley? We weren’t even linked. CT suggests we were never interested in Barkley. Ramsey plays CAM. Brazilian CAM, no idea who this is. Ivorian CM was probably nothing in that seen as though his club wanted 50m and we ‘supposedly’ offered 15m. Millwall lad? Wallace? He’s right wing.

[RVclaret]

Would imagine Cornet would be in the fire sale as well and anybody else we can get money for ( however little) and they will be replaced by cheap free transfers on low wages

so we are going to sell our whole squad for no reason? What an awful take

[KRBFC]

But the debt question doesn't go away. how do we cut our cloth accordingly with that amount of debt - and would anyone else be even remotely interested in taking that debt on?

The question also is, how do we finance replacements for the 10 players out of contract in the summer, when we owe MSD £60m, £5m a year to MSD in interest and staged payments to Garlick totalling £50m(ish)?

The plan might have been to pay the MSD loan once they sell the club but that surely has to change now we're relegated and the value of the club plummets.

Is that it now? All incoming money goes towards the £100m+ debts we owe and we sign free transfers, loans and youngsters to try and stay in the Championship?

I'm not sure how we possibly fight near the top of the Championship, when we haven't got a bean to invest in replacements for departing players and any incoming money will probably be needed to minimise debt.

A potential sad state of affairs if all of Dyche's hardwork over the years is simply wiped out in 1 flash to pay ALK debts...

[KRBFC]

so we are going to sell our whole squad for no reason? What an awful take

For no reason, are you ignoring the debts?

[IanMcL]

Calm down

We are still playing prem.

[spt_claret]

1. Many would have you believe that deal was almost done and Zagreb pulled the plug at the last minute. You can call it a PR stunt if you want but I think that’s utterly moronic.

2. Alli and Barkley? We weren’t even linked. CT suggests we were never interested in Barkley. Ramsey plays CAM. Brazilian CAM, no idea who this is. Ivorian CM was probably nothing in that seen as though his club wanted 50m and we ‘supposedly’ offered 15m. Millwall lad? Wallace? He’s right wing.

People say what sounds good and people believe what they want to believe. We've very little to go on beyond a single local press line that the flight happened. Even less than the transfer links you're dismissing.
We were linked with Barkley, and (much more tenuously but still linked) with Alli. I was even saying on the threads at the time that if that came off I'd retract all my criticism of their transfer policy.
Earlier you were saying CT is just sour grapes about personal scoops now you're referring to him, which is it?
Ramsey plays CAM and CM.
The Brazilian was back in December I think. Strange link but lots of people on here said it showed ALK thinking outside the box.
I'm certain I've seen Wallace play CAM/CM and Whoscored agrees.

[randomclaret2]

Calm down

We are still playing prem.

In the same way that Scunthorpe are still playing in the Football League

[Chester Perry]

not meaning to fan the flames, a little game for you
Is the net spend to date?

- considerably less than the annual interest payment to MSD
- less than the increase in the wage bill as a result of ALK actions
- less than Sean Dyche's new salary
- probably less than a third of the reported actual cash of their own that VSL invested in the takeover
- less than half of the value of the staged payment due to be made to the sellers last month
- probably less than the cost of the refurbishment of the hospitality suites last summer (money put aside under Garlick)
- possibly similar to the cost of all those LED boards and their instalation
- less than we receive for shirt sponsorship

I should say that all this is guff when you add signing on fees and agent fees (£6m+) - just like the notion we only spent £1m the season before - as the soon to be published accounts will show

[quoonbeatz]

If you know it's guff, why post it?

[agreenwood]

Whatever your thoughts on the boardroom, for new owners they have been remarkably patient with the coaching staff.

We’ve almost been exclusively poor on the pitch since ALK took over and they stuck with the manager and his staff. I can’t think of another takeover that hasn’t quickly changed manager in those circumstances.

I’d say if you’re fully behind Dyche right now, you have to acknowledge the admirable faith ALK have shown him. It demonstrates that they aren’t the trigger happy bunch so many owners prove to be when it comes to the playing side.

[ClaretTony]

Whatever your thoughts on the boardroom, for new owners they have been remarkably patient with the coaching staff.

We’ve almost been exclusively poor on the pitch since ALK took over and they stuck with the manager and his staff. I can’t think of another takeover that hasn’t quickly changed manager in those circumstances.

I’d say if you’re fully behind Dyche right now, you have to acknowledge the admirable faith ALK have shown him. It demonstrates that they aren’t the trigger happy bunch so many owners prove to be when it comes to the playing side.

From day one, and literally day one, Pace spoke about how important Dyche was to them and was one of the reasons they were so attracted to Burnley. They loved the longevity. That must have been music to Dyche's advisors when they went into contract talks.

[agreenwood]

From day one, and literally day one, Pace spoke about how important Dyche was to them and was one of the reasons they were so attracted to Burnley. They loved the longevity. That must have been music to Dyche's advisors when they went into contract talks.

Aye. That patience should probably being tested right now, but it’s very unusual in this day and age.

[daveisaclaret]

Have to admit I'm left cold by discussion of the "net spend." Spending the football club's money on signing and paying footballers isn't a radical act, it's what all the other clubs in the league (and country) were doing all along. The way Garlick went about selling the club might not have been great but I don't think it's smart to argue the merits of ALK on whether they do the bare minimum even if Garlick didn't.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

We are cash strapped to get rid of Dyche would cost a lot of cash the owners don’t have
Not Rocket Science

[BLH_Claret]

From day one, and literally day one, Pace spoke about how important Dyche was to them and was one of the reasons they were so attracted to Burnley. They loved the longevity. That must have been music to Dyche's advisors when they went into contract talks.

Very true, they were naive in the extreme and we are now paying for that naivety. Maybe Sean Dyche has found Chris Wood’s comfort zone?

[Chester Perry]

Have to admit I'm left cold by discussion of the "net spend." Spending the football club's money on signing and paying footballers isn't a radical act, it's what all the other clubs in the league (and country) were doing all along. The way Garlick went about selling the club might not have been great but I don't think it's smart to argue the merits of ALK on whether they do the bare minimum even if Garlick didn't.

This is a a reasonable argument

UEFA and the EFL (the Premier League are likely to follow) are moving to a new variation of of FPP/Profit and Sustainability regulations whereby the old wages to revenue ratio (UEFA) and maximum losses/investment (PL/EFL) are going to be replaced by an overall football cost (wages + amortisation) in relation to revenues - the target being a ratio of 70%. There will be a phased introduction, likely to be Year 1 90%, Year 2 80%, Year 3 70% (though this may prove difficult in the Championship as some clubs are paying wages well over 100% of revenues before adding amortisation)

here is our recent history on this new measure (the real numbers will not include wages of non football staff)

2019/20 - 99% (13 month accounting period)
2018/19 - 90%
2017/18 - 79%
2016/17 - 69%
2015/16 - 93%
2014/15 - 44%
2013/14 - 95%
2012/13 - 123% (FFP introduced)
2011/12 - 95%
2010/11 - 90%
2009/10 - 61%
2008/09 - 139%

[Chester Perry]

If you know it's guff, why post it?

When you have made an arse of yourself you acknowledge the mistake and try and move on - I had made an arse of myself (not for the first time )

[aggi]

Obviously the flip side is that it's in ALK's interests to go back up again as quickly as possible. A fire sale and zero investment isn't much good for them.

[aggi]

This is a a reasonable argument

UEFA and the EFL (the Premier League are likely to follow) are moving to a new variation of of FPP/Profit and Sustainability regulations whereby the old wages to revenue ratio (UEFA) and maximum losses/investment (PL/EFL) are going to be replaced by an overall football cost (wages + amortisation) in relation to revenues - the target being a ratio of 70%. There will be a phased introduction, likely to be Year 1 90%, Year 2 80%, Year 3 70% (though this may prove difficult in the Championship as some clubs are paying wages well over 100% of revenues before adding amortisation)

here is our recent history on this new measure (the real numbers will not include wages of non football staff)

2019/20 - 99% (13 month accounting period)
2018/19 - 90%
2017/18 - 79%
2016/17 - 69%
2015/16 - 93%
2014/15 - 44%
2013/14 - 95%
2012/13 - 123% (FFP introduced)
2011/12 - 95%
2010/11 - 90%
2009/10 - 61%
2008/09 - 139%

As you probably know, it's more than "some" clubs paying wages over 100% of revenue in the Championship, only a handful that aren't

[Chester Perry]

As you probably know, it's more than "some" clubs paying wages over 100% of revenue in the Championship, only a handful that aren't

It is what makes the prospect of the new rules so interesting - you do wonder how they will achieve it though

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It is what makes the prospect of the new rules so interesting - you do wonder how they will achieve it though

I suspect there will be restrictions on what they can offer new signings to ensure the wage bills are smashed down

[Papabendi]

From day one, and literally day one, Pace spoke about how important Dyche was to them and was one of the reasons they were so attracted to Burnley. They loved the longevity. That must have been music to Dyche's advisors when they went into contract talks.

That was one piece that stood out as terribly naive at the time and an awful position to negotiate from. We have to hope the contract does actually include some clauses that work in the club's favour.

[Chester Perry]

I suspect there will be restrictions on what they can offer new signings to ensure the wage bills are smashed down

It may bring a crash in transfer values too as amortisation has such an important role, in recent years we have only met the 70% limit when wages were less than 55% of revenue - needless to say it doesn't really affect the big six to much and for their owners it is likely to mean quite large profits each year - for the rest commercial revenue growth is imperative

[quoonbeatz]

When you have made an arse of yourself you acknowledge the mistake and try and move on - I had made an arse of myself (not for the first time )

Fair play, Chester, I thought it was an odd one from someone who's posts are always well reasoned!

[matucana]

As previously stated

Relegation, substantial debt, flashing lights, pathetic AiScout system, and removing Burnley's best manager for well over 2 generations. Shameful.

[IanMcL]

Effed up totally.

[BurnleyFC]

Absolute *****.

[taio]

Pace out.