Burnley Football Club - first accounts under ALK

[ClaretPete001]

Just on the technical accounting matter. The club's accounts were signed off by Alan Pace on 28th April just gone. If the £10 million was advanced any time after 31st July and before 28th April would need to be reported.

Sorry, I don't know how the proportions of tv money are split.

Yes, of course, there was careful cost control commencing with the suspension of Premier League games in March 2020. That's what Mike Garlick was speaking about, I think in April that year. No surprise that the cost control extended through the summer transfer window. I don't think anyone knew that there'd be a vaccine by the end of the year (2020), never mind how long the pandemic would continue for.

EDIT: We know Mike Garlick was looking for buyers of the club through the summer transfer window period. However, I think it's more likely the cost control on player contracts was more about covid-19 than about any prospective deal for the club.

Point taken but we still don't know what the 10 million was for...

And without knowing the extent and timing of the broadcast revenue we don't know how vulnerable the club is too cash flow problems.

And again it is clear that MGs actions has meant that the accounts are more positive than they would have been, however, only to the extent that we are in danger of relegation and need to rebuild the squad going forward.

On a general note it bothers me that a rather dry and technical conversation about finance detracts from the reality that we are talking about tens of millions of pounds disappearing from the club and not being used to invest in the playing assets.

On the one hand we have the narrative that MG and Co were splendidly cautious with regard to COVID and on the other perfectly happen to see nearly £50 million in cash disappear to other companies, a further £60 odd million in inter company debt and a £65 million loan from MSD.

It just give me cognitive dissonance. I shall end up at the DRs demanding something medicinal to cure my inability to square a circle shaped headache in my pre-frontal cortex.

[ClaretPete001]

It's not risk management at all. In the unlikely event that Saudi Arabia can't afford to pay the £12.5m in February, BFC will have to repay the new loan from another source. It's a secured loan, we haven't sold the debtor.

I think you've had to work hard to make some fairly sensible points on this thread dsr so well played.

It's not good business to incur 7 figure fees to deal with cashflow issues. I know other clubs do it but that's because a lot of clubs are in a mess.

The irony of the NUFC connection is not lost on me. On the one hand, new owners spent £80 million and transformed their club, on the other, we have owners who are paying a million quid to unlock cash that is not yet due.

The contrast could not be more stark.

[Paul Waine]

It's not risk management at all. In the unlikely event that Saudi Arabia can't afford to pay the £12.5m in February, BFC will have to repay the new loan from another source. It's a secured loan, we haven't sold the debtor.

Have you read the deed? It includes a notice of assignment which requires Newcastle United to pay £12.5 million to Macquarie - via the Premier League's transfer fee clearing account.

Agree, BFC haven't "sold the debtor." However, the debt has been assigned to Macquarie and NUFC have been requested to make payment to Macquarie.

This is good risk management, making sure cash is available in the event of it being required.

[RVclaret]

I think you've had to work hard to make some fairly sensible points on this thread dsr so well played.

It's not good business to incur 7 figure fees to deal with cashflow issues. I know other clubs do it but that's because a lot of clubs are in a mess.

The irony of the NUFC connection is not lost on me. On the one hand, new owners spent £80 million and transformed their club, on the other, we have owners who are paying a million quid to unlock cash that is not yet due.

The contrast could not be more stark.

One set of owners are quite literally state backed oil backed blood money which happens to make them the richest in the world. The other set of owners are by all accounts decent people but are private equity investors, who, aside from not having massive finances, are still trying to take our club to the next level. Let’s add some balance because the comparison is a bit daft. Most posters on here during the Newcastle takeover said they’d stop supporting our club if that was us.

[Paul Waine]

I think you've had to work hard to make some fairly sensible points on this thread dsr so well played.

It's not good business to incur 7 figure fees to deal with cashflow issues. I know other clubs do it but that's because a lot of clubs are in a mess.

The irony of the NUFC connection is not lost on me. On the one hand, new owners spent £80 million and transformed their club, on the other, we have owners who are paying a million quid to unlock cash that is not yet due.

The contrast could not be more stark.

Where do you get the "million quid" from, Pete? It's only 9 months. I doubt Macquarie are charging that much.

Don't forget if the £12.5 million is paid to MSD it will immediately save the club the Libor + 8% on that amount. I'd expect MSD's interest rate on a 5 year loan to be higher than Macquarie's interest rate on a 9 month loan - and, that's before we consider the nature of the different credit risks in the two separate transactions.

[dsr]

Have you read the deed? It includes a notice of assignment which requires Newcastle United to pay £12.5 million to Macquarie - via the Premier League's transfer fee clearing account.

Agree, BFC haven't "sold the debtor." However, the debt has been assigned to Macquarie and NUFC have been requested to make payment to Macquarie.

This is good risk management, making sure cash is available in the event of it being required.

Yes, I have read it. It is a deed of security, not a deed of assignment.

Burnley FC have instructed Newcastle that they have to pay Macquarie rather than BFC, and Newcastle have confirmed they will (or at least, they won't pay it to anyone else). That's the assignment you are talking about. But read clause 4 on page 5, "Liability of the borrower". It says that the borrower's liability will not be affected by the security becoming void or unenforceable, and that the BFC waives any right to insist that Macquarie goes after Newcastle to enforce security if Macquarie prefers to go after BFC.

So if Newcastle get hit by any sort of embargo that stops them paying this debt, then BFC still has to pay it to Macquarie.

file:///C:/Users/David/Documents/Sundry/Burnley%20FC%20deed%20of%20assignment.pdf

[superdimitri]

Yes, I have read it.

You may want to edit or delete your last post in case it has your full name.

[dsr]

Where do you get the "million quid" from, Pete? It's only 9 months. I doubt Macquarie are charging that much.

Don't forget if the £12.5 million is paid to MSD it will immediately save the club the Libor + 8% on that amount. I'd expect MSD's interest rate on a 5 year loan to be higher than Macquarie's interest rate on a 9 month loan - and, that's before we consider the nature of the different credit risks in the two separate transactions.

As a comparison, Bournemouth's 2020 accounts showed debtors of £20,000,000 transfer fees, £14m due before June 2021 and £6m due after June 2021, and they got a cash sum from their lender on the same sort of terms as ours from Macquarie, of £17,397,000. Cost 13% of the gross. I see know reason why ours shouldn't be of that sort of order.

[Swizzlestick]

I think you've had to work hard to make some fairly sensible points on this thread dsr so well played.

It's not good business to incur 7 figure fees to deal with cashflow issues. I know other clubs do it but that's because a lot of clubs are in a mess.

The irony of the NUFC connection is not lost on me. On the one hand, new owners spent £80 million and transformed their club, on the other, we have owners who are paying a million quid to unlock cash that is not yet due.

The contrast could not be more stark.

I’m sorry, but what a ridiculous comparison.

[dsr]

You may want to edit or delete your last post in case it has your full name.

Thanks. I posted my download not the Companies House link. Though it's only my first name, so not really an issue I don't think.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docu ... 3acc74048f

[Sleeping Cat]

I mentioned this at the time, but with the club purchasing minor shareholdings held by fans in return for club "credit" that they can use to purchase tickets and retail at the club was reducing future potential commercial revenue. On top of the loss of TV revenue, the "significant" repayment of the MSD loan this seems another ill thought out idea that will further financially weaken us if relegated.

The club gained nothing from this repurchasing at all, but ALK have a larger shareholding which might appeal to a potential new buyer, and might pocket ALK some money in the event of a sale.

[ClaretTony]

I mentioned this at the time, but with the club purchasing minor shareholdings held by fans in return for club "credit" that they can use to purchase tickets and retail at the club was reducing future potential commercial revenue. On top of the loss of TV revenue, the "significant" repayment of the MSD loan this seems another ill thought out idea that will further financially weaken us if relegated.

The club gained nothing from this repurchasing at all, but ALK have a larger shareholding which might appeal to a potential new buyer, and might pocket ALK some money in the event of a sale.

Believe the offer for these shares related to the terms of the loan with MSD. I've managed to use a bulk of my credit now with season tickets and away tickets for the last three games.

[Chester Perry]

Believe the offer for these shares related to the terms of the loan with MSD. I've managed to use a bulk of my credit now with season tickets and away tickets for the last three games.

it makes sense for the club to take the majority (if not all) cashflow hit this season on this deal, particularly with relegation still threatening - I would imagine VSL would be happy for people to spend the credit as quickly as possible

though I am intrigued as to how it will appear in the accounts - particularly if there is a intention for VSL to re-imburse the credit

[Paul Waine]

As a comparison, Bournemouth's 2020 accounts showed debtors of £20,000,000 transfer fees, £14m due before June 2021 and £6m due after June 2021, and they got a cash sum from their lender on the same sort of terms as ours from Macquarie, of £17,397,000. Cost 13% of the gross. I see know reason why ours shouldn't be of that sort of order.

I've just now looked at AFC Bournemouth's accounts for the period end 30th June 2021. Companies House shows a charge entered into on 24th September 2021 with Macquarie. The security is the 2nd and 3rd instalments of transfer fee due from VillaReal with respect to Arnaut Danjuma Groeneveld. The two amounts are each Eur 6,000,000 due and payable on 1 July 2022 and 1 July 2023 (so, Eur 12,000,000 in total). The first is due a little over 9 months from the date Macquarie advanced the funds to Bournemouth. The second is a little over 21 months later. The accounts, note 27, events after the reporting period, provide the following amounts: £9,644,000 rec'd net against the gross receivable of £10,247,000. So, that's pretty close to 6% interest and charges for a loan period that is for half roughly the same as Burnley's advance re Chris Wood and the other half for more than double the time re Burnley's advance re Chris Wood. Shall we agree, something of the order of 4% per annum would be a generous amount to pay Macquarie for these forms of secured advances?

I've also looked at AFCB's 30-Jun-2020 accounts. Yes, there's a similar advance against transfer fees reported in those accounts. But, the amounts are net received £17,397,000 and gross amount £20,000,000. I can see where you get 13% from. BUT, the gross amount includes sell-on fees due to former clubs.

BTW, for anyone interested - and it's the first time I've looked at AFC B's accounts - they owe their owner a little under £130 million at 30-Jun-2021. I'd hazard a guess that's increasing further as the re-join the Premier League at the end of this season.

So, let's go with the assumption that Macquarie's charge for £12.5 million secured advance to BFC against Chris Wood's transfer instalment is no more than 4%, or £500,000 at absolute most.

Very good business in my book.

[Paul Waine]

it makes sense for the club to take the majority (if not all) cashflow hit this season on this deal, particularly with relegation still threatening - I would imagine VSL would be happy for people to spend the credit as quickly as possible

though I am intrigued as to how it will appear in the accounts - particularly if there is a intention for VSL to re-imburse the credit

I'm pretty sure that BFC will receive payment from VSL (via Calder Vale, I assume) to cover the cost of the "club credit." I don't think HMRC would be happy to see value exchanged between the club and the club's shareholders without the correct tax treatments. Perhaps future accounts will reveal something about related party transactions with respect to the club credit.

[gawthorpe_view]

Two things, do short-term loans usually attract higher interest rates than long-term loans?
If we've got circa £50 million cash reserves, why do we need to borrow £12.5 million?

[ClaretPete001]

I've just now looked at AFC Bournemouth's accounts for the period end 30th June 2021. Companies House shows a charge entered into on 24th September 2021 with Macquarie. The security is the 2nd and 3rd instalments of transfer fee due from VillaReal with respect to Arnaut Danjuma Groeneveld. The two amounts are each Eur 6,000,000 due and payable on 1 July 2022 and 1 July 2023 (so, Eur 12,000,000 in total). The first is due a little over 9 months from the date Macquarie advanced the funds to Bournemouth. The second is a little over 21 months later. The accounts, note 27, events after the reporting period, provide the following amounts: £9,644,000 rec'd net against the gross receivable of £10,247,000. So, that's pretty close to 6% interest and charges for a loan period that is for half roughly the same as Burnley's advance re Chris Wood and the other half for more than double the time re Burnley's advance re Chris Wood. Shall we agree, something of the order of 4% per annum would be a generous amount to pay Macquarie for these forms of secured advances?

I've also looked at AFCB's 30-Jun-2020 accounts. Yes, there's a similar advance against transfer fees reported in those accounts. But, the amounts are net received £17,397,000 and gross amount £20,000,000. I can see where you get 13% from. BUT, the gross amount includes sell-on fees due to former clubs.

BTW, for anyone interested - and it's the first time I've looked at AFC B's accounts - they owe their owner a little under £130 million at 30-Jun-2021. I'd hazard a guess that's increasing further as the re-join the Premier League at the end of this season.

So, let's go with the assumption that Macquarie's charge for £12.5 million secured advance to BFC against Chris Wood's transfer instalment is no more than 4%, or £500,000 at absolute most.

Very good business in my book.

They do owe the owners a lot of money as do many other clubs - Rovers, PNE ..... it's not unusual.

And the point is not that it is good for clubs to owe owners a lot of money but that is who we are competing against.

The seven figure number came from other on here who will probably challenge your assumptions but even so a half a million quid just to receive payments early does not seem like good business. It might be necessary but not good.

[RVclaret]

Two things, do short-term loans usually attract higher interest rates than long-term loans?
If we've got circa £50 million cash reserves, why do we need to borrow £12.5 million?

Short term loans are less risky - more chance they get paid back. Vice versa for long term loans, more time = more chance something could go wrong.

£50m cash includes approx 30-35m of the following seasons PL tv payment which would be allocated towards player wages. So actually the cash reserves are more towards £15-20m.

[ClaretPete001]

One set of owners are quite literally state backed oil backed blood money which happens to make them the richest in the world. The other set of owners are by all accounts decent people but are private equity investors, who, aside from not having massive finances, are still trying to take our club to the next level. Let’s add some balance because the comparison is a bit daft. Most posters on here during the Newcastle takeover said they’d stop supporting our club if that was us.

The discussion is about finance and business models that is the context I make the point

17 PL clubs are owned by billionaires who are amongst the richest in the world. As are our traditional rivals: Rovers and PNE.

Is it a daft to compare our business model with the norm in the PL?

I think not..

[ClaretPete001]

Short term loans are less risky - more chance they get paid back. Vice versa for long term loans, more time = more chance something could go wrong.

£50m cash includes approx 30-35m of the following seasons PL tv payment which would be allocated towards player wages. So actually the cash reserves are more towards £15-20m.

Without seeing a full cash flow it's hard to say how much cash we have surplus to trading requirements because there is Tax, VAT etc.

[RVclaret]

The discussion is about finance and business models that is the context I make the point

17 PL clubs are owned by billionaires who are amongst the richest in the world. As are our traditional rivals: Rovers and PNE.

Is it a daft to compare our business model with the norm in the PL?

I think not..

Well it appeared you were trying to say ‘wow look at how good and rich Newcastle are compared to the skint Alan Pace’.

If billionaires are that attracted to PL clubs, what do you think held them back from buying the most well-run club in the league?

[RVclaret]

Without seeing a full cash flow it's hard to say how much cash we have surplus to trading requirements because there is Tax, VAT etc.

Incomes taxes were already on the cash flow statement at a net + £2.3m. VAT not sure but won’t be much.

[Jakubclaret]

Apparently every conversation on the internet eventually ends up with the Nazi’s, Schrödinger’s Cat, or Simon Jordan…. That’s evolution for you.

Ah bless, you mean the unpleasant truth some of us are uncomfortable with because it goes against what we’ve been officially told & most have gullibly sucked up & absorbed to the core.

[Paul Waine]

They do owe the owners a lot of money as do many other clubs - Rovers, PNE ..... it's not unusual.

And the point is not that it is good for clubs to owe owners a lot of money but that is who we are competing against.

The seven figure number came from other on here who will probably challenge your assumptions but even so a half a million quid just to receive payments early does not seem like good business. It might be necessary but not good.

As I said, Pete. £500k or 4% for 9 months, based on the assumption the interest charged is very similar to that charged by Macquarie's to AFC Bournemouth as shown in their Jun-2021 accounts (and, with no confusion with any sell-on fees to previous clubs) is less than half the amount the club will be paying MSD for the same amount under the term loan agreement.

[Paul Waine]

Incomes taxes were already on the cash flow statement at a net + £2.3m. VAT not sure but won’t be much.

VAT generally costs the club very little. They charge it on transactions when it's required by HMRC and pay it over to the HMRC after deducting any VAT the club has had to pay out to other entities required to charge the club VAT - and can offset against VAT collected. Yes, there may be VAT amounts on the club's balance sheet, depending on the VAT reporting and payment periods.

[ClaretPete001]

Well it appeared you were trying to say ‘wow look at how good and rich Newcastle are compared to the skint Alan Pace’.

If billionaires are that attracted to PL clubs, what do you think held them back from buying the most well-run club in the league?

No, I was trying to show the difference between a normal football club investment and a leveraged buyout.

The evidence would suggest it is because a leveraged buyout generates more money for the seller and those with enough money to buy the club did not see the point in paying an inflated price.

[aggi]

No, I was trying to show the difference between a normal football club investment and a leveraged buyout.

The evidence would suggest it is because a leveraged buyout generates more money for the seller and those with enough money to buy the club did not see the point in paying an inflated price.

I don't think many are viewing Newcastle as a "normal" football club investment.

If you're working on that basis you were always going to be disappointed.

[KRBFC]

I don't think many are viewing Newcastle as a "normal" football club investment.

If you're working on that basis you were always going to be disappointed.

I think he meant a normal football club takeover, where the incoming pay for shares using their own funds.

[ClaretPete001]

I think he meant a normal football club takeover, where the incoming pay for shares using their own funds.

Indeed - thanks.

[Down_Rover]

It is very hard to draw conclusions about accounts that are over 12 months in the past.

Another season has gone by and it is reasonable to assume the Balance Sheet has improved since then. This is because the P&L Account is likely to be better, attendances at the ground and a further years trading. Even in 2021 the loss of £3m was after charging £20m+ on amortisation of player contracts. Further, a note to the 2021 accounts suggests that net transfer spend in this season was £1.3m ie minimal.

The likelihood is that cash at bank is now much higher than £50m

So what happens if we are relegated. MSD will want their loan back. The Club says we cant pay and needs a compromise. We agree, say, to pay half and then two quarters in 2024 and 2025.

We will have cash in the Bank, sale of players on expensive contracts who will leave anyway and the parachute payments. We will still be better funded than most Championship clubs until the parachute payments stop, by which time our cost base will reduce. The worst scenario I can see is that we will have to compete against Championship clubs with no financial edge. It is where we started.

In the background we have ALK who will not want the £102m debt to crystallise and MSD who will agree to a compromise rather than see the club fall over and they lose their dosh. Both ALK and MSD are in too deep to allow the club to fall over.

On the other hand if we avoid relegation ALK and MSD will invest to attempt to ensure a longer term survival plan

I got ridiculed for posting the above when the 2021 accounts were published

Can I ask why now?

[Elbarad]

So after looking over the accounts, have we gotten past the concern that 'evil American' owners were setting this up as a giant scheme to steal all of the club's funds and then head off back to Utah leaving the supporters holding the bag yet?

Because I have to say as an American supporter who's never even visited Burnley, that was certainly the feeling I got from some posters on here and I have to say, it annoyed me.

Not everyone here to be sure, or even the majority by quite a long ways, but enough that it wasn't a lone conspiracy theorist either.

[Down_Rover]

So after looking over the accounts, have we gotten past the concern that 'evil American' owners were setting this up as a giant scheme to steal all of the club's funds and then head off back to Utah leaving the supporters holding the bag yet?

Because I have to say as an American supporter who's never even visited Burnley, that was certainly the feeling I got from some posters on here and I have to say, it annoyed me.

Not everyone here to be sure, or even the majority by quite a long ways, but enough that it wasn't a lone conspiracy theorist either.

In every town and city throughout the world there reside people who don’t trust anything they don’t understand. After what has happened I suspect such of the Burnley fans who did fear the worst have now been converted.

Take no offence it is human nature

[FeedTheArf]

So after looking over the accounts, have we gotten past the concern that 'evil American' owners were setting this up as a giant scheme to steal all of the club's funds and then head off back to Utah leaving the supporters holding the bag yet?

Because I have to say as an American supporter who's never even visited Burnley, that was certainly the feeling I got from some posters on here and I have to say, it annoyed me.

Not everyone here to be sure, or even the majority by quite a long ways, but enough that it wasn't a lone conspiracy theorist either.

Seen a number of posts on here today somehow vindicating that the “Americans” aren’t as bad as some would have you believe.

They could be American, Swahili or a dyed in the wool Claret born on Harry Potts Way. I couldn’t give a flying fig where people are from. I care about how they develop and safeguard my club whilst they are owners and custodians.

On the pitch has been exceptional, no doubting that. Decent set of accounts considering. They’ve paid down some of the debt they created and the work they’ve done since the accounting period ended with promotion, squad development and bringing new investment and interest into the club has been great. I just wish people would stop making concerned fans out to be small-minded little Englanders. Their nationality couldn’t be less important!

[gandhisflipflop]

So after looking over the accounts, have we gotten past the concern that 'evil American' owners were setting this up as a giant scheme to steal all of the club's funds and then head off back to Utah leaving the supporters holding the bag yet?

Because I have to say as an American supporter who's never even visited Burnley, that was certainly the feeling I got from some posters on here and I have to say, it annoyed me.

Not everyone here to be sure, or even the majority by quite a long ways, but enough that it wasn't a lone conspiracy theorist either.

Don’t worry about it. I’m from Burnley and it annoyed me too. I completely understand where you are coming from.

[eastcoastclaret]

So after looking over the accounts, have we gotten past the concern that 'evil American' owners were setting this up as a giant scheme to steal all of the club's funds and then head off back to Utah leaving the supporters holding the bag yet?

Because I have to say as an American supporter who's never even visited Burnley, that was certainly the feeling I got from some posters on here and I have to say, it annoyed me.

Not everyone here to be sure, or even the majority by quite a long ways, but enough that it wasn't a lone conspiracy theorist either.

It was only ever a small minority, but a vocal one on this board.

[Paul Waine]

So after looking over the accounts, have we gotten past the concern that 'evil American' owners were setting this up as a giant scheme to steal all of the club's funds and then head off back to Utah leaving the supporters holding the bag yet?

Because I have to say as an American supporter who's never even visited Burnley, that was certainly the feeling I got from some posters on here and I have to say, it annoyed me.

Not everyone here to be sure, or even the majority by quite a long ways, but enough that it wasn't a lone conspiracy theorist either.

Hi Elbarad, I hope you enjoy the Mission to Burnley documentary when it is broadcast later this year. I also hope you get the opportunity to visit Turf Moor sometime.

There's "nowt as strange as folk" and we can certainly apply that description to football fans. Burnley had always previously been owned by people born in and around Burnley. Change is threatening to some. The fact that new owners turned up without their pockets stuffed with money to spend was a new experience, especially when football demands a lot of money.

Of course, Burnley's history, in living memory for many on here, includes difficult times. So, a lot of nervousness that difficult times would be visiting Burnley again.

We've all enjoyed a wonderful season of very entertaining football. We are all excited that Vincent Kompany is the club's manager. Yes, some continue to have reservations about an owner that is outside their experience. But, take away concerns about "investment bankers" and we can all see that Alan Pace is a smart guy and he can make smart decisions.

I believe more and more are seeing what I was expressing when I said in the fall of 2020, when we learnt that Alan Pace was bidding to buy Burnley:

Exciting times.

[Elbarad]

Hi Elbarad, I hope you enjoy the Mission to Burnley documentary when it is broadcast later this year. I also hope you get the opportunity to visit Turf Moor sometime.

There's "nowt as strange as folk" and we can certainly apply that description to football fans. Burnley had always previously been owned by people born in and around Burnley. Change is threatening to some. The fact that new owners turned up without their pockets stuffed with money to spend was a new experience, especially when football demands a lot of money.

Of course, Burnley's history, in living memory for many on here, includes difficult times. So, a lot of nervousness that difficult times would be visiting Burnley again.

We've all enjoyed a wonderful season of very entertaining football. We are all excited that Vincent Kompany is the club's manager. Yes, some continue to have reservations about an owner that is outside their experience. But, take away concerns about "investment bankers" and we can all see that Alan Pace is a smart guy and he can make smart decisions.

I believe more and more are seeing what I was expressing when I said in the fall of 2020, when we learnt that Alan Pace was bidding to buy Burnley:

Exciting times.

Thank you Paul Waine and others, absolutely I do not want to portray the reaction I'm talking about as more then it was, it was a small number of folks, some of which were some shall I say prominent members of this board.. It was very noticeable as a fellow countryman of the new owners. But understandable to an extent as you say.

But my question is genuine to those who are much more skillful and knowledgeable then I am in matters of finance. Having seen the accounts, does it put to bed, or start to at least the narrative that this ownership group is little better then a bunch of grifters? Those of you who are able to make heads or tails of if, such as yourself or CP and others. Is there anything that is still a concern for you or can we finally believe that, whether ultimately successful or not, that Pace and company are a legitimate ownership group with the best interests of the club, and by the success of the club their own, in mind.

You seem to think so. And I am grateful for your response. As I would welcome a response that showed reasons for concern as well.

[Paul Waine]

Thank you Paul Waine and others, absolutely I do not want to portray the reaction I'm talking about as more then it was, it was a small number of folks, some of which were some shall I say prominent members of this board.. It was very noticeable as a fellow countryman of the new owners. But understandable to an extent as you say.

But my question is genuine to those who are much more skillful and knowledgeable then I am in matters of finance. Having seen the accounts, does it put to bed, or start to at least the narrative that this ownership group is little better then a bunch of grifters? Those of you who are able to make heads or tails of if, such as yourself or CP and others. Is there anything that is still a concern for you or can we finally believe that, whether ultimately successful or not, that Pace and company are a legitimate ownership group with the best interests of the club, and by the success of the club their own, in mind.

You seem to think so. And I am grateful for your response. As I would welcome a response that showed reasons for concern as well.

For me, no concerns. I feel I understand the challenge Alan Pace and his colleagues have taken. I feel I understand the offer they are making to their fellow investors in Velocity Sports Partners, with ALK Capital alongside them as managing partners. Their offering is to the guys who can't buy a football club in their own right, but are happy to share in the financial rewards that may come in successful football club ownership. Alan Pace in his previous position at Citigroup may well have known people such as JJ Watt and Lealia Watt. Or, perhaps he knew Malcolm Jenkins and through Jenkins has been introduced to Watt. Similarly, Alan Pace (and colleagues) may already have known the MSD guys, as well as other finance guys - that's the world they come from. So, it's putting all these things together and the football. I can't think of a manager better than Vincent Kompany to take Alan Pace's Burnley forward and with Vincent Kompany comes all the new exciting footballers.

Yes, there are challenges ahead. Can dealings in the transfer window always keep Burnley ahead in finance terms? What are the other plans B, C and D when financial plans fall short?

Exciting times.

[KlyBfc]

So after looking over the accounts, have we gotten past the concern that 'evil American' owners were setting this up as a giant scheme to steal all of the club's funds and then head off back to Utah leaving the supporters holding the bag yet?

Because I have to say as an American supporter who's never even visited Burnley, that was certainly the feeling I got from some posters on here and I have to say, it annoyed me.

Not everyone here to be sure, or even the majority by quite a long ways, but enough that it wasn't a lone conspiracy theorist either.

I was very much a wait and see but with trepidation.
That’s has to be natural. Many a football club has suffered at the hands of new owners and nobody truly knew how this was going to go. Some had more trust than others that’s a fact but even those couldn’t ever be sure in the world of football if Pace would be successful. We were coming out of our most successful period in decades, we had lost players and picked up a debt… it was an anxious time because for most of us our club plays a HUGE part in our lives

[Swizzlestick]

The posts from a year back from some contributors are highly illuminating.

[summitclaret]

Some people on here are anti- American because there are so far left it's laughable. Trump is a nutter, but I think most people know which side their bread is buttered, when it matters.

There are some that still want unilateral nuclear disarmament, like the SNP despite Putin. UTC.

[Burnley1989]

For me, no concerns. I feel I understand the challenge Alan Pace and his colleagues have taken. I feel I understand the offer they are making to their fellow investors in Velocity Sports Partners, with ALK Capital alongside them as managing partners. Their offering is to the guys who can't buy a football club in their own right, but are happy to share in the financial rewards that may come in successful football club ownership. Alan Pace in his previous position at Citigroup may well have known people such as JJ Watt and Lealia Watt. Or, perhaps he knew Malcolm Jenkins and through Jenkins has been introduced to Watt. Similarly, Alan Pace (and colleagues) may already have known the MSD guys, as well as other finance guys - that's the world they come from. So, it's putting all these things together and the football. I can't think of a manager better than Vincent Kompany to take Alan Pace's Burnley forward and with Vincent Kompany comes all the new exciting footballers.

Yes, there are challenges ahead. Can dealings in the transfer window always keep Burnley ahead in finance terms? What are the other plans B, C and D when financial plans fall short?

Exciting times.

I agree, if they can make themselves some money whilst also making us successful, everyone’s a winner!

[Swizzlestick]

Some people on here are anti- American because there are so far left it's laughable. Trump is a nutter, but I think most people know which side their bread is buttered, when it matters.

There are some that still want unilateral nuclear disarmament, like the SNP despite Putin. UTC.

This post was some rollercoaster ride.

[lucs86]

Sorry if someone's already done an explainer but I can't see one. I've read the LancsLive article about the accounts being released. It's positive in tone but I don't understand it (or finance in general tbh).

It reads like we've got a £40M loan to pay, but Calder Vale Holdings owes us £114M? Is that an OK position?

[Commy]

It's the money owed to us for transfers that worries me. I hope Everton don't owe us much as, if they go down, they might be a bit skint.

[mybloodisclaret]

Thank you Paul Waine and others, absolutely I do not want to portray the reaction I'm talking about as more then it was, it was a small number of folks, some of which were some shall I say prominent members of this board.. It was very noticeable as a fellow countryman of the new owners. But understandable to an extent as you say.

But my question is genuine to those who are much more skillful and knowledgeable then I am in matters of finance. Having seen the accounts, does it put to bed, or start to at least the narrative that this ownership group is little better then a bunch of grifters? Those of you who are able to make heads or tails of if, such as yourself or CP and others. Is there anything that is still a concern for you or can we finally believe that, whether ultimately successful or not, that Pace and company are a legitimate ownership group with the best interests of the club, and by the success of the club their own, in mind.

You seem to think so. And I am grateful for your response. As I would welcome a response that showed reasons for concern as well.

Hi Elbarad.

I was one of those hugely excited by the takeover and it has proved thus far to be an enormous success. Our club was falling and very quickly under the previous stewardship, ageing squad and no investment in the squad.

Pace and Co. have changed all that. We have a really exciting young squad and added to that, we are back in the big time with atleast some money to bring more quality talent into the squad.

The stadium has had loads of great work done to it also, the boards, advertising, improved catering options. It looks good.

I managed to speak to Alan Pace at Bristol outside the ground where I thanked him for what he and ALK had done he simply replied, "You're very welcome, we've only just started, there is a lot more to come!!!"

Very exciting times, those who are negative will always be so, I enjoy life being positive, it seems to work for me.

[Longsider]

Hi Elbarad.

I was one of those hugely excited by the takeover and it has proved thus far to be an enormous success. Our club was falling and very quickly under the previous stewardship, ageing squad and no investment in the squad.

Pace and Co. have changed all that. We have a really exciting young squad and added to that, we are back in the big time with atleast some money to bring more quality talent into the squad.

The stadium has had loads of great work done to it also, the boards, advertising, improved catering options. It looks good.

I managed to speak to Alan Pace at Bristol outside the ground where I thanked him for what he and ALK had done he simply replied, "You're very welcome, we've only just started, there is a lot more to come!!!"

Very exciting times, those who are negative will always be so, I enjoy life being positive, it seems to work for me.

Spot on. Good positive post my friend. UP THE CLARETS

[mybloodisclaret]

Spot on. Good positive post my friend. UP THE CLARETS

UTC.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It's the money owed to us for transfers that worries me. I hope Everton don't owe us much as, if they go down, they might be a bit skint.

Football creditors rule means we get first dibs on money from clubs, so they'll have to pay regardless, even ahead of the taxman

[Jel]

https://theathletic.com/4493166/2023/05 ... ed-article

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