Vydra injury.

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FeedTheArf
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Re: Vydra injury

Post by FeedTheArf » Mon May 09, 2022 11:33 am

Granny WeatherWax wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 11:29 am
What if the deal is a vastly reduced one with increases linked to appearances?, especially if we go down.
Then even given his current injury situation, based on his past experience with us and the few appearances he does get, he'd still earn more elsewhere if a club takes a punt on him. Without being attached to a club he could train with a club to get fit with a view to signing for them in Jan/Feb time.

It's come at the worst possible time for him and for us.

warksclaret
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Re: Vydra injury

Post by warksclaret » Mon May 09, 2022 11:37 am

A most under rated player, however we cannot afford to be charitable. I sense in the last season or so he has shown no desire to remain a Burnley player, which I can appreciate, as at times I felt SD, particularly early on, kept him out of the side bar a few substitute appearances. He will become a free agent.We all hope he makes a 100% recovery, and would like to think, like Dave Jones we will allow him to recuperate and train within our facilities as a gesture

ClaretTony
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Re: Vydra injury.

Post by ClaretTony » Mon May 09, 2022 11:49 am

I've merged the two threads - the one from Saturday and the one from Sunday
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fidelcastro
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Re: Vydra injury

Post by fidelcastro » Mon May 09, 2022 11:55 am

warksclaret wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 11:37 am
A most under rated player, however we cannot afford to be charitable. I sense in the last season or so he has shown no desire to remain a Burnley player, which I can appreciate, as at times I felt SD, particularly early on, kept him out of the side bar a few substitute appearances. He will become a free agent.We all hope he makes a 100% recovery, and would like to think, like Dave Jones we will allow him to recuperate and train within our facilities as a gesture
What evidence have you got that he's "shown no desire to remain a Burnley player"?
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daveisaclaret
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Re: Vydra injury

Post by daveisaclaret » Mon May 09, 2022 11:59 am

fidelcastro wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 11:55 am
What evidence have you got that he's "shown no desire to remain a Burnley player"?
I think his agent's reaction to us using our option to extend his contract made this very clear, to be fair.

Feel for the lad, hope he catches on somewhere in the summer.

ClaretTony
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Re: Vydra injury

Post by ClaretTony » Mon May 09, 2022 12:00 pm

fidelcastro wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 11:55 am
What evidence have you got that he's "shown no desire to remain a Burnley player"?
I'm more concerned with his belief that Vydra is a most underrated player.
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ClaretTony
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Re: Vydra injury

Post by ClaretTony » Mon May 09, 2022 12:02 pm

daveisaclaret wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 11:59 am
Feel for the lad, hope he catches on somewhere in the summer.
Going to be difficult with an injury like that and unlikely to play again until 2023. I believe he will have the option to remain at Burnley to do his rehab.

Dark Cloud
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Re: Vydra injury.

Post by Dark Cloud » Mon May 09, 2022 12:09 pm

I have never, ever doubted Vydra's technical abilities, pace and most importantly his desire to get into the team and actually play. Clearly SD rightly or wrongly had him some way down the striker pecking order and at times it felt almost to the point of downright stubbornness and I found that very frustrating and I can only assume Vydra found it even more so. However, having said that, Vydra has missed his fair share of scoring chances and has often given the impression he's an excellent championship player who may be JUST short of what it takes to score regularly in the PL. I like him and I hope he stays, especially if we go down and I actually think paired with a striker like Wout might just bring out the best in him as its the traditional big guy, small quick guy type of partnership.
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spt_claret
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Re: Vydra injury.

Post by spt_claret » Mon May 09, 2022 12:21 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 12:09 pm
I have never, ever doubted Vydra's technical abilities, pace and most importantly his desire to get into the team and actually play. Clearly SD rightly or wrongly had him some way down the striker pecking order and at times it felt almost to the point of downright stubbornness and I found that very frustrating and I can only assume Vydra found it even more so. However, having said that, Vydra has missed his fair share of scoring chances and has often given the impression he's an excellent championship player who may be JUST short of what it takes to score regularly in the PL. I like him and I hope he stays, especially if we go down and I actually think paired with a striker like Wout might just bring out the best in him as its the traditional big guy, small quick guy type of partnership.
I think Vydra is ultimately not the best suited to a 442 or really 4411 in the PL. I rate him and like him as he is a different option but he's a different option who also tends to benefit from different setup.
We changed our shape when he came on against Chelsea in November and it resulted in us equalising and nearly stealing it. I think he's suited better to a 433 or 4231 (or even 4321 Christmas Tree) in the PL as he's quick, technical and has good movement but isn't the most direct runner or line leader and isn't a PL standard finisher.
As for his injury it's awful timing for us and him, and any slim chance of an extension is now no longer worth it for us given his likely layoff. Shame as he'd have been my preferred extension of the 3 OOC forwards. Just bad news all round.

Dark Cloud
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Re: Vydra injury.

Post by Dark Cloud » Mon May 09, 2022 12:27 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 12:21 pm
I think Vydra is ultimately not the best suited to a 442 or really 4411 in the PL. I rate him and like him as he is a different option but he's a different option who also tends to benefit from different setup.
We changed our shape when he came on against Chelsea in November and it resulted in us equalising and nearly stealing it. I think he's suited better to a 433 or 4231 (or even 4321 Christmas Tree) in the PL as he's quick, technical and has good movement but isn't the most direct runner or line leader and isn't a PL standard finisher.
As for his injury it's awful timing for us and him, and any slim chance of an extension is now no longer worth it for us given his likely layoff. Shame as he'd have been my preferred extension of the 3 OOC forwards. Just bad news all round.
Agreed. Definitely really sad and unfortunate re the injury as it means the decision about his contract is really a non stater and like you, on balance I'd have liked to keep him. His finishing at this level has been his achilles heel and tbf I'm still fuming about what happened in the final seconds against Palace at home before Christmas. How precious would those 2 points be now!!!?

Nori1958
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Re: Vydra injury.

Post by Nori1958 » Mon May 09, 2022 12:48 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 12:27 pm
Agreed. Definitely really sad and unfortunate re the injury as it means the decision about his contract is really a non stater and like you, on balance I'd have liked to keep him. His finishing at this level has been his achilles heel and tbf I'm still fuming about what happened in the final seconds against Palace at home before Christmas. How precious would those 2 points be now!!!?
I take it you're not Cornets biggest fan either?

JohnMcGreal
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Re: Vydra injury

Post by JohnMcGreal » Mon May 09, 2022 1:10 pm

Swizzlestick wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 11:20 pm
Not great. Think we need to look at Cornet up top now. It’s not ideal, but we need somebody up there with a bit more dynamism. Weghorst and Barnes yesterday was painful.
I think Weghorst with Cornet playing just off him is our only choice now up front. Which is a shame because Lennon is clearly in need of a spell on the bench and a returning Cornet would have given us that option, had Vydra/Rodriguez been available.

They're dropping like flies.

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Re: Vydra injury

Post by spt_claret » Mon May 09, 2022 1:12 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 1:10 pm
I think Weghorst with Cornet playing just off him is our only choice now up front. Which is a shame because Lennon is clearly in need of a spell on the bench and a returning Cornet would have given us that option, had Vydra/Rodriguez been available.

They're dropping like flies.
We have the option of playing Pieters wide left or Roberts right with McNeil returning left and Lowton in defence, but I can't argue that that's not square pegs in round holes. Threadbare doesn't cut it.

Dark Cloud
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Re: Vydra injury.

Post by Dark Cloud » Mon May 09, 2022 2:07 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 12:48 pm
I take it you're not Cornets biggest fan either?
I just see Cornet's fluff at Norwich (which I was right behind at the time and already celebrating! 😕) and the penalty debacle at West Ham as slightly different as anything could still have happened and the game could still have played out differently. Vydra's miss in the Palace game was a nailed on match winner as it was literally the last kick of the game. I know he took the ball down brilliantly to create the chance, but then missing it kind of sums him up as a player imo and it's haunted me all season because I somehow felt at the time that it would still be crucial some 6 months later.

Superjohnnyfrancis
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Re: Vydra injury.

Post by Superjohnnyfrancis » Mon May 09, 2022 2:41 pm

I hope we’re going to renew his contract if he will stay, how are we going to replace him with no money plus it’s another player signed for £10m that we’re going to let walk for free.

If we’re giving Jay Rod another two years I would say he’s done as well as him plus he’s not had a proper run in the team under Dyche apart from the lockdown season when he played really well.
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Andreshotboots
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Re: Vydra injury.

Post by Andreshotboots » Mon May 09, 2022 4:55 pm

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 2:41 pm
I hope we’re going to renew his contract if he will stay, how are we going to replace him with no money plus it’s another player signed for £10m that we’re going to let walk for free.

If we’re giving Jay Rod another two years I would say he’s done as well as him plus he’s not had a proper run in the team under Dyche apart from the lockdown season when he played really well.
Unless you sign a young player who gets better over the years, or an unknown who has a wonderful season or two, the vast majority of players value depreciates. He has also chosen to run his contract down so we can't stop him walking for free. Vyds has chosen his bed and now must lay in it now I'm afraid..

I take your point about his replacement with not much money, but I would respond by saying why would we pay the best part of a years salary of a possible new 2 year deal, to a guy who we know won't kick a ball for us for in anger over that time.

Vydra has taken a huge gamble to leave his options open and run down his contract, just like Tarky.

Tarky is only a serious injury away from being in the same boat.

Maybe he left the pitch on Saturday with a slight strain doing exactly this, protecting his own future...stranger things have happened..

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Re: Vydra injury.

Post by elwaclaret » Mon May 09, 2022 5:05 pm

I presume the club still take insurances out against serious injury? In which case getting him back fully fit is the clubs responsibility?

… if my assumptions are correct I’d be seriously contemplating a revised 2 year deal, with club option on a third year. Vids has been sadly largely wasted in his time here, and still has a lot more to give when fully fit.

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Re: Vydra injury.

Post by Superjohnnyfrancis » Mon May 09, 2022 5:53 pm

Andreshotboots wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 4:55 pm
Unless you sign a young player who gets better over the years, or an unknown who has a wonderful season or two, the vast majority of players value depreciates. He has also chosen to run his contract down so we can't stop him walking for free. Vyds has chosen his bed and now must lay in it now I'm afraid..

I take your point about his replacement with not much money, but I would respond by saying why would we pay the best part of a years salary of a possible new 2 year deal, to a guy who we know won't kick a ball for us for in anger over that time.

Vydra has taken a huge gamble to leave his options open and run down his contract, just like Tarky.

Tarky is only a serious injury away from being in the same boat.

Maybe he left the pitch on Saturday with a slight strain doing exactly this, protecting his own future...stranger things have happened..
Think an acl is six months may be wrong, still given our difficulty to buy and persuade people to join it would be an insurance policy to get him to sign especially if we suffer relegation. He may not want to sign or be waiting to see who the manager is as I feel it was fairly obvious he wasn’t getting a look in from the previous manager for whatever reason.

He wasn’t really trusted to start but when he was thrown on with ten minutes left he was almost expected to get us out of a hole and sometimes he did. Can’t say fairer than that.

A more progressive manager would get a lot more out of him especially playing as a ten. He’s obviously not good enough to start upfront but as an attacking midfielder I feel he would flourish probably in a 3-5-2. Someone like knutsen would be able to see that.

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