Alan Pace

[daveisaclaret]

Because you're blaming nobody but Pace. Garlick wanted to sell the club and Garlick agreed to the leveraged sale. If you're blaming Pace for what's happened, you have to blame the previous regime more.

I'm blaming Pace because he's the one that's done it.

[NRC]

Alan Pace using the club's money to buy the club and putting the club into debt is nothing to do with Alan Pace???

Correct.

[taio]

I’ve no doubt about that.
Some people have been a disgrace though and should not be trusted going forwards.
You can’t trust people who can so easily be swayed.

I genuinely don't know who you are referring to here.

[ChristheViking]

Of course Pace made a gutsy decision. Do you think he just woke up 4 days after Norwich and thought I know I’ll sack Sean today.

He recognized we were going down under Dyche. Most fans recognized we were going down under Dyche.

My view we gave ourselves a far better chance of staying up. The players looked liberated. The formations changed from the rigid 4-4-2 that had got us 5 wins in 13 months.

Pace knew Dyche was revered (rightly revered too) but the time had come. We came up short - just - but given we were 9 points behind Leeds with 8 games to go Pace’s decision gave us a chance.

[tarkys_ears]

Big deal. Pope is off anyway, as is Cornet. Chuck in a few big wages and that's the £65m covered.

[taio]

Big deal. Pope is off anyway, as is Cornet. Chuck in a few big wages and that's the £65m covered.

No it isn't.

[daveisaclaret]

Correct.

If Pace farts in a lift is that Garlick's fault?

[willsclarets]

It's been the same every year since we qualified for Europe, but the summer transfer window is crucial. We absolutely have to get this one right.

[Murger]

If Pace farts in a lift is that Garlick's fault?

The previous owner chose to sell it to Pace. So why is that Paces fault?

[daveisaclaret]

The previous owner chose to sell it to Pace. So why is that Paces fault?

I don't know how to say it in any other terms. It's Pace's fault because he did it.

[BurnleyFC]

If we’re really fortunate then Mike might defer some of the money owed to him.

[ClaretTony]

Garlick must have Tony over a barrel, 2 threads of mine deleted calling the previous owner out.

Iv no doubt ill receive a ban but thus forum is in the pits if fans can't speak openly.

1 They were not removed by me
2 They were libellous.

Had I removed them, I'd have removed you too for putting this message board at risk.

[NRC]

If Pace farts in a lift is that Garlick's fault?

Yes, because Pace told him “if you put me in that lift I’m going to fart.”

[Bordeauxclaret]

If Pace farts in a lift is that Garlick's fault?

If Pace tells the right people who did it then does it matter.

[AotearoaClaret]

I think football wise, you can argue that Pace made a big call with dyche, but I think it’s much bigger than that. Football managers come and go and competition means that relegation is always a possibility. Ups and downs are part and parcel of the game we love.

More debt round the clubs shoulders than ever before is the real concern. Facts are facts and it’s there on the balance sheet in black and white. 10 years of building and it looks like it’s all going to be sold to the highest bidder to pay off the owners debt, and yet people still come on here convinced that everything is fine and we can sell a few players and the debt is covered.

People have the right to defend pace if they think a leveraged buyout is ok, I and many others aren’t ok with the level of risk associated with the buyout and for me, it’s both immoral and unethical the way it was done. I have to question Mike Garlick in this as he claimed to be a fan, but sold the clubs soul and o the highest bidder. This football club is so much more than a business to the community it serves. He should, and probably does know that. But money talks, and he obviously had his price.

One thing I’m convinced of is that we will all still be here supporting long after these Americans have gone back across the pond, be that with profit or loss. It’s just where they leave the club that concerns me.

Our Football Clubs Are For Life, Not Just For Business.

UTC

[Culmclaret]

I have a funny feeling that Pace is going to make John Bond look like Captain Popular

[Vegas Claret]

Big deal. Pope is off anyway, as is Cornet. Chuck in a few big wages and that's the £65m covered.

we don't owe anything like 65 million today. We owe a portion now and a portion the following year if we don't get promoted.

[IanMcL]

End of 10 years of building. 10 gone, rest will be sold and no management.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

If Garlick had bought some decent midfielder’s instead of hoarding the money for himself we wouldn’t be in this mess. Pace is a businessman that got a good deal nowt to do with him.

[Culmclaret]

If Garlick had bought some decent midfielder’s instead of hoarding the money for himself we wouldn’t be in this mess. Pace is a businessman that got a good deal nowt to do with him.

Other than that he has had the last season and a half to sort it out

[ChristheViking]

“End of 10 years of building”

That was about 4 years ago.

[Ilkley claret]

If Pace farts in a lift is that Garlick's fault?

Yes it’s his fault on son many levels

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Other than that he has had the last season and a half to sort it out

I think he’s done okay considering, if it wasn’t for his signings we’d have been down by Christmas.

3.5 years of no proper investment from 2018 onwards under Garlick have come home to roost.

[BabylonClaret]

As LTL said on another thread we stopped doing what worked for us in an effort to become the favourite Underdog and "pretty up a bit" - thats come from Pace and the new team and ultimately their chasing "exciting" players that don't really fit our wider framework (or necessarily the grouo) has done for us after 2 years of standing still.

[AwayClaret]

Without a shadow of a doubt more Dyche/Garlick fault.

[Lancasterclaret]

I'm trying to look at this as positively as I can

We've got a big debt, and a big chunk needs paying off this summer, but I think player sales sorts that out (we'll get v good money for Pope, and probably our money back on Cornet* and Weghorst*) which leaves us a lot of wages freed up, plus the out of contract players frees up a lot more as well, plus parachute payments

I can see us being competitive for one season, possibly two, but if we still in the championship after that then I suspect we might be in a bit of trouble

*assuming they want to leave, but I think with their wages they have to be sold

[NewClaret]

As LTL said on another thread we stopped doing what worked for us in an effort to become the favourite Underdog and "pretty up a bit" - thats come from Pace and the new team and ultimately their chasing "exciting" players that don't really fit our wider framework (or necessarily the grouo) has done for us after 2 years of standing still.

Not seen LTL’s post but I can say I was thoroughly sick of our “framework”. I couldn’t stand it any longer, even if it’d have maintained our PL status (which I don’t think it would, actually).

[BabylonClaret]

I think he’s done okay considering, if it wasn’t for his signings we’d have been down by Christmas.

3.5 years of no proper investment from 2018 onwards under Garlick have come home to roost.

But we needed a right midfield (and perhaps central too) and in Jan we clearly needed another forward before Wood left.

Didn't deliver any of those.

Anyone who thinks Dyche carries the can for this is mental

[taio]

I'm trying to look at this as positively as I can

We've got a big debt, and a big chunk needs paying off this summer, but I think player sales sorts that out (we'll get v good money for Pope, and probably our money back on Cornet* and Weghorst*) which leaves us a lot of wages freed up, plus the out of contract players frees up a lot more as well, plus parachute payments

I can see us being competitive for one season, possibly two, but if we still in the championship after that then I suspect we might be in a bit of trouble

*assuming they want to leave, but I think with their wages they have to be sold

Transfer receipts are usually paid over multiple years.

[NewClaret]

Transfer receipts are usually paid over multiple years.

Unless you get Macquarie Bank to pay you them up front.

[taio]

Unless you get Macquarie Bank to pay you them up front.

True but would make things even more risky now..

[Lancasterclaret]

Transfer receipts are usually paid over multiple years.

Good point!

Ok, some money plus parachute payments coming in

We shouldn't need to panic for a couple of seasons is the point I'm badly trying to make!

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

But we needed a right midfield (and perhaps central too) and in Jan we clearly needed another forward before Wood left.

Didn't deliver any of those.

Anyone who thinks Dyche carries the can for this is mental

No one in the club thought we needed those players so how Dyche doesn’t take the blame is strange to say the least but yet you want to blame Pace?

Most fans knew where to strengthen the team so why didn’t Dyche or Pace , odd all round.

Cornet and Collins good signings can’t rebuild the entire team in 3 windows .

[AwayClaret]

But we needed a right midfield (and perhaps central too) and in Jan we clearly needed another forward before Wood left.

Didn't deliver any of those.

Anyone who thinks Dyche carries the can for this is mental

Anyone who doesn't think Dyche is majorly to blame is mental.

[Chester Perry]

we don't owe anything like 65 million today. We owe a portion now and a portion the following year if we don't get promoted.

well that depends on how you classify debt - in accounts terms it tends to be within the next reporting period and then longer term, Many would include the money VSL owe to the sellers simply because they appear to be using club funds *via related company loans) to pay for it -the club accounts will not

on that basis this morning we had over £25m to the sellers and ljkely some transfer stage payments in the current accounting period - interest payments are cashflow outgoings but are not debt, same applies to the wages to the dismissed management team

this evening we need to add a "significant" payment to MSD to that amount which may include a penalty for the reduced interest to be earned on the lower principal going forward

this morning we had £65m longer term debt to MSD, at least £20m in transfer payments and the outstanding amount owed to the sellers


I would say it is probably more important to look at the cash flow and the problems that may lead from that than debt in the short term

[NewClaret]

True but would make things even more risky now..

Not at all. Factoring a future income makes good sense (particularly if they have a good covenant and it’s therefore a lower interest rate than on the outstanding debt) and of course there’s not much more risky than defaulting on the secured debt so definitely de-risks the situation!

[Nori1958]

well that depends on how you classify debt - in accounts terms it tends to be within the next reporting period and then longer term, Many would include the money VSL owe to the sellers simply because they appear to be using club funds *via related company loans) to pay for it -the club accounts will not

on that basis this morning we had over £25m to the sellers and ljkely some transfer stage payments in the current accounting period - interest payments are cashflow outgoings but are not debt, same applies to the wages to the dismissed management team

this evening we need to add a "significant" payment to MSD to that amount which may include a penalty for the reduced interest to be earned on the lower principal going forward

this morning we had £65m longer term debt to MSD, at least £20m in transfer payments and the outstanding amount owed to the sellers


I would say it is probably more important to look at the cash flow and the problems that may lead from that than debt in the short term

What about the loan repayments being deferred for the first season, have you heard that from your trusted sources?

[taio]

Not at all. Factoring a future income makes good sense (particularly if they have a good covenant and it’s therefore a lower interest rate than on the outstanding debt) and of course there’s not much more risky than defaulting on the secured debt so definitely de-risks the situation!

It would be a worrying trend in my view taking on more debt to pay debt. But I accept there might be no choice such is the precarious nature of the club's finances.

[Chester Perry]

What about the loan repayments being deferred for the first season, have you heard that from your trusted sources?

there were no deferred interest payments as the accounts have clearly shown

[NewClaret]

It would be a worrying trend in my view taking on more debt to pay debt. But I accept there might be no choice such is the precarious nature of the club's finances.

It’s not really taking on more debt though, it’s more like invoice factoring. Which is a pretty common financing mechanism. It’s effectively an advance on money you are owed vs new debt.

Albeit would be better if it weren’t required at all, I agree.

[RVclaret]

there were no deferred interest payments as the accounts have clearly shown

He’s talking about the ‘rumours’ posted on here recently that the 65m loan ‘immediate repayment’ taken from the accounts has been renegotiated with a 12 month deferral.

[Chester Perry]

It’s not really taking on more debt though, it’s more like invoice factoring. Which is a pretty common financing mechanism. It’s effectively an advance on money you are owed vs new debt.

Albeit would be better if it weren’t required at all, I agree.

that catches up with you and can be very difficult cycle to get out of

[KRBFC]

I'm trying to look at this as positively as I can

We've got a big debt, and a big chunk needs paying off this summer, but I think player sales sorts that out (we'll get v good money for Pope, and probably our money back on Cornet* and Weghorst*) which leaves us a lot of wages freed up, plus the out of contract players frees up a lot more as well, plus parachute payments

I can see us being competitive for one season, possibly two, but if we still in the championship after that then I suspect we might be in a bit of trouble

*assuming they want to leave, but I think with their wages they have to be sold

We haven't paid for Cornet, so if the 17.5m release clause is true, we'd get about 4m from that sale.

[NewClaret]

that catches up with you and can be very difficult cycle to get out of

I agree.

In all likelihood though, our only means of repaying the substantial part of the £65m we now owe.

That is, unless there’s some agreement that Garlick/JB buy back some of their shares and those funds are used to repay it (which is what I’m hoping).

[taio]

It’s not really taking on more debt though, it’s more like invoice factoring. Which is a pretty common financing mechanism. It’s effectively an advance on money you are owed vs new debt.

Albeit would be better if it weren’t required at all, I agree.

It's a mechanism meaning we owe money so is debt. Slippery slope.

[Nori1958]

there were no deferred interest payments as the accounts have clearly shown

One that's been agreed recently?

[NewClaret]

We haven't paid for Cornet, so if the 17.5m release clause is true, we'd get about 4m from that sale.

If we sold Cornet for £17.5m, it doesn’t necessarily mean we have to accelerate the payments does it?

[Nori1958]

He’s talking about the ‘rumours’ posted on here recently that the 65m loan ‘immediate repayment’ taken from the accounts has been renegotiated with a 12 month deferral.

Not heard it on here, but have from elsewhere

[NewClaret]

It's a mechanism meaning we owe money so is debt. Slippery slope.

Someone will need to clarify, but I think the Wood deal just requires NUFC to pay Macquarie directly? But as stated, not really something I want us to be doing but the only way I can see is repaying the debt now.

[DCWat]

Lovely, so we’re storing up a problem, which presumably piles more pressure on achieving promotion, next season?