Welcome to Cat 2

[aggi]

Some inaccuracies there. We were audited but it had to be done remotely because of the pandemic but there was absolutely no reason to believe we would not have passed that audit. Given Jon Pepper’s previous role I’d have been astonished had we not passed that audit.

As for being better off - no. We weren’t cat 3 when we got that provisional licence. We’d been cat 2 for three years, so we are not above or better than where we were.

This is a big setback, particularly for a club who are supposedly promoting youth football.

Those audits did only give a provisional licence though which would suggest they weren't viewed as equivalent to an on-site audit.

Of the five provisional licences granted, two were put back to category 2 and one remained as provisional with a further inspection to happen after the first was failed.

That aside, it's definitely a disappointing development and what happens next will be a real measure of ALK.

[Burnley1989]

I suspect after a season or two we would find ourselves in a similar position to Blackburn (also cat 1) where the heavily depend on the academy bringing talent through.

I think Blackburn ranked the highest for number of minutes given to academy players last season

Agreed

[IanMcL]

Straightforward cock up. Board responsible.

Let's see their commitment now.

[ClaretTony]

Those audits did only give a provisional licence though which would suggest they weren't viewed as equivalent to an on-site audit.

Of the five provisional licences granted, two were put back to category 2 and one remained as provisional with a further inspection to happen after the first was failed.

That aside, it's definitely a disappointing development and what happens next will be a real measure of ALK.

Birmingham were the other but they tried to withdraw their application. From what’s been said, they were in a mess and I think they were happy to come out. Reading is the strange one though.

[daveisaclaret]

If we're spending the money it costs to run a Category One academy without reaping the benefits it's a quite disturbing level of incompetence I think.

Nasty little dig at Sean Dyche hidden in there too. Wouldn't mind so much if it came after Kompany actually has a chance to progress us in this area.

[ClaretLoup]

It strikes me that what we have here is a situation where ALK are like a bunch of people who have learnt to sail a dinghy and have taken over an ocean liner.The first thing they seem to have done is fire half the crew, mainly the ones who knew how the ship ran, down in the engine room and in other key departments.

I am wondering if they are sending more time desperately combing the world, Vietnam, China etc to find someone daft enough to pay off Oligarlick and John the Bagman et al rather than actually running the club. Who would cough up circa £200m now for a Championship club with Cat 2 youth system?

Answers via Instagram to ALK.

[Quickenthetempo]

We have known for a few weeks, I presume they have known longer with the appeal process etc..

Have the club took any actions to rectify their failings yet?
Employed more staff etc..?

[DCWat]

I suspect after a season or two we would find ourselves in a similar position to Blackburn (also cat 1) where the heavily depend on the academy bringing talent through.

I think Blackburn ranked the highest for number of minutes given to academy players last season

They have owners who are willing and able to fund it. That’s something we certainly appear not to have.

[Nori1958]

Hand on heart I don't take a lot of notice of our youth teams, but the players people are saying are ready for the first team, did they come through the academy when it was cat B and C?

[Dum Spiro Spero]

In the great scheme of things where kids of incredibly young ages are traded I think it is fairly irrelevent if a club is Cat 1, 2 or 3. Of course Cat 1 is better but as long as we are not Zouma's Cat I don't really care.

[Inchy]

I prefer Cotterballs tactic of scrapping youth football altogether And just having Utds scraps instead

[Vegas Claret]

A bit of a dig at Sean Dyche at the end?

and rightly so

[Newcastleclaret93]

and rightly so

Nonsense

[taio]

and rightly so

No, unnecessary

[BurnleyFC]

and rightly so

How so? Who have we actually let go that would’ve been good enough for us whilst still a Premier League team?

It’ll be a damn sight easier for Kompany to integrate academy players into the first team now we’re in the Championship.

[TsarBomba]

I’ve been largely supportive of ALK.

I want them to do well, obviously.

But we need this sorting, and regardless of whether it was only a provisional Cat 1 licence, ALK quite rightly have some questions to answer.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Very unnecessary dig at Dyche.

It’ll need quite a few good players to match what he did at the club.

[superdimitri]

[/quote]

“The Club’s intention is to continue forward to regain Category One status”

“The Club’s intention is to continue forward to regain Category One status“

Proof is in the pudding obviously.

Ah I somehow missed that. Thanks.

[Rileybobs]

Maybe this is why the club don’t do communication

[JarrowClaret]

I don’t understand why people have to read between the lines just take it as it is read so moving forward we are going to use the youth team more if it is possible. Nobody knows if it was a dig at Sean Dyche or not apart from the person that wrote it so stop guessing just so you can dig out the board.

Statement is definitely poorly worded and the board do need to recover this somehow though.

[Vegas Claret]

How so? Who have we actually let go that would’ve been good enough for us whilst still a Premier League team?

It’ll be a damn sight easier for Kompany to integrate academy players into the first team now we’re in the Championship.

we will never know because he rarely gave them chances and that is pretty undeniable. Thomas was supreme away at Millwall in the cup
and rarely if never got a further look in just as an example.

Don't get me wrong, I know it's far more difficult to play them in Premier League games but there were times some of the younger ones could have been put on the bench and he didn't do that.

[aggi]

Birmingham were the other but they tried to withdraw their application. From what’s been said, they were in a mess and I think they were happy to come out. Reading is the strange one though.

I was surprised to read that up until now no club had lost their category 1 apart from voluntarily. Now there seems to be a whole load of downgrading, special measures, extra inspections, etc

It sounds like Reading had some serious issues, a lot of unhappy people there.

[Newcastleclaret93]

we will never know because he rarely gave them chances and that is pretty undeniable. Thomas was supreme away at Millwall in the cup
and rarely if never got a further look in just as an example.

Don't get me wrong, I know it's far more difficult to play them in Premier League games but there were times some of the younger ones could have been put on the bench and he didn't do that.

Out of interest which one of Collins, Tarks and Mee would you have dropped to start Thomas in the prem?

Given it looks like VK won’t be starting him ahead of a 19 year old and a 20 year old CB in the championship

[daveisaclaret]

we will never know because he rarely gave them chances and that is pretty undeniable. Thomas was supreme away at Millwall in the cup
and rarely if never got a further look in just as an example.

Don't get me wrong, I know it's far more difficult to play them in Premier League games but there were times some of the younger ones could have been put on the bench and he didn't do that.

He could have literally ****** in the young players' chips, it still wouldn't be right to throw a dig at him in the end of an article about how the club has messed up something he helped us achieve to begin with.

[Vegas Claret]

Out of interest which one of Collins, Tarks and Mee would you have dropped to start Thomas in the prem?

Given it looks like VK won’t be starting him ahead of a 19 year old and a 20 year old CB in the championship

what part if cup games didn't you understand ? what part of putting them on the bench didn't you understand

With that I'm done. I have my opinion and it wont change and I'm not going to turn the thread into and **** show

[taio]

we will never know because he rarely gave them chances and that is pretty undeniable. Thomas was supreme away at Millwall in the cup
and rarely if never got a further look in just as an example.

Don't get me wrong, I know it's far more difficult to play them in Premier League games but there were times some of the younger ones could have been put on the bench and he didn't do that.

I can't believe you think it would be right for the club to have a dig at Dyche, if that's where it was aimed, when he was a big reason why we have the infrastructure we now have, and he's in no way at fault for losing our category one status which is what the news release is about.

[daveisaclaret]

what part if cup games didn't you understand ? what part of putting them on the bench didn't you understand

With that I'm done. I have my opinion and it wont change and I'm not going to turn the thread into and **** show

The bench for our last cup game had Helm, Thomas, Dodgson and McGlynn on. More youngsters than seniors.

[bf2k]

I've always wondered why they say this........

'Burnley FC will be making no further comment at this time'

Whinge all you want, we're not bothered.

Because football club owners are virtually answerable to no one.

[Newcastleclaret93]

what part if cup games didn't you understand ? what part of putting them on the bench didn't you understand

With that I'm done. I have my opinion and it wont change and I'm not going to turn the thread into and **** show

Dyche regularly had youngsters on the pitch in cup games and on the bench in the league so again please highlight otherwise?

[Cirrus_Minor]

Being in the Premier league has given the club many opportunities to capitalise. These would include the first team squad, Gawthorpe, Turf Moor and the youth set up.

The first team squad - yes initially. but difficult to maintain without further funding.
Gawthorpe - yes with aplomb,
Turf Moor - Partially, but could have done much more.
Youth set up - failure, after being given opportunity looks like this has been let slip.

Along with the training ground the development of young players would be the most important long term investment, so incredible we have allowed this to fail.

[jrgbfc]

Dyche regularly had youngsters on the pitch in cup games and on the bench in the league so again please highlight otherwise?

Dyche clearly didn't give a monkeys about the cup competitions yet he still preferred to play Bardsley ahead of Dodgson against Huddersfield last season.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Dyche clearly didn't give a monkeys about the cup competitions yet he still preferred to play Bardsley ahead of Dodgson against Huddersfield last season.

Yep he went with an experienced team that day.

But against Bournemouth in the cup 5 academy players featured (4 started the game)

Dyche also gave debuts to plenty of players at Burnley from the academy

[welsbyswife]

I would like to think we would as it’s the only way a club like ours sustainably stay in that league

Can you provide an example of a club of our size being sustained in the Championship by their academy? We all love the idea of developing our own but personally I do wonder if a lot of money is wasted on academies relative to what they produce. Generally over coached footballers who struggle to think on their feet. I can't imagine we'll ever produce enough that will make the grade at the top level. Stan was never too keen was he.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Can you provide an example of a club of our size being sustained in the Championship by their academy? We all love the idea of developing our own but personally I do wonder if a lot of money is wasted on academies relative to what they produce. Generally over coached footballers who struggle to think on their feet. I can't imagine we'll ever produce enough that will make the grade at the top level. Stan was never too keen was he.

I already have. Blackburn

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I already have. Blackburn

They aren't really, Venkys are having to put in millions every year to keep the club ticking over.

Weren't they also under an embargo recently?

[Newcastleclaret93]

They aren't really, Venkys are having to put in millions every year to keep the club ticking over.

Weren't they also under an embargo recently?

That’s the point though, the academy is keeping them afloat.

They need the players coming through. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in the championship

[welsbyswife]

If Rovers are a sustainable Championship club god help us.

[addisclaret]

Cat 2 still better than what Ron Manager and the boys had. Jumpers for goalposts, rush goalies, 2 at the back, three in the middle, four at the front,.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NeRoSFZWbs

[welsbyswife]

Not really sure you can say it's the Academy keeping them up.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

That’s the point though, the academy is keeping them afloat.

They need the players coming through. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in the championship

No, Venkys are keeping them afloat, hence the nearly £200 million owed to Venkys.
They regular issue shares to convert the debts etc.

The academy is providing players, cheaply, but it isn't keeping them afloat.

[DCWat]

That’s the point though, the academy is keeping them afloat.

They need the players coming through. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in the championship

The owners are keeping them afloat.

[Devils_Advocate]

Sounds to me like the old regime tried to pull a fast one and use Covid to help get a Cat 1 status that wasn't truly warranted.

Mr Pace now has to deal with the fallout and is unfairly taking the brunt of the criticism but I expect Mr Pace and Kompany will get more out of a genuine Cat 2 status than Garlick and Dyche ever got out of their make believe Cat 1 status

[dsr]

Sounds to me like the old regime tried to pull a fast one and use Covid to help get a Cat 1 status that wasn't truly warranted.

Mr Pace now has to deal with the fallout and is unfairly taking the brunt of the criticism but I expect Mr Pace and Kompany will get more out of a genuine Cat 2 status than Garlick and Dyche ever got out of their make believe Cat 1 status

Have you ever been known to say something honest, other than by accident?

[Newcastleclaret93]

No, Venkys are keeping them afloat, hence the nearly £200 million owed to Venkys.
They regular issue shares to convert the debts etc.

The academy is providing players, cheaply, but it isn't keeping them afloat.

If they didn’t have an academy they wouldn’t even have a squad.

If they stop pumping in money it’s the academy that will keep the club going.

[Woodleyclaret]

Reading lost thier Cat 1 status this season and they had successfully produced a steady stream of players which they developed and sold on
This pre Bond was our model abandoned by incompetents running our club at the time.
I feel VC may actually play some of our rising stars not leaving them to languish and then leave after a few years. We had U23 players getting on the bench and that was hailed as development with most never used by Sean other than as 3 min subs.

[Top Claret]

Can't believe how naive some are to think that we had players in our academy last season who were capable of playing premier League football when none were capable of going out on loan to a League 1 club at best.

Blackburn Rovers academy doesn't make them competitive in the championship it's the loan market that is there saviour.

As far as Dyche is concerned he did an unbelievable job with the tools and support at his disposal. Fans will soon come to realise that the Dyche way was the only way a club with our resources can survive in the premier League

[arise_sir_charge]

Just catching up on this thread. It’s a shame we have lost Cat one status and I’m pleased to see that the intention is to regain it.

Couple of observations though……

Of the 5 licenses awarded provisionally, two have been made permanent and two have been withdrawn with one staying as provisional. That suggests to me that we were likely very lucky to get it in the first place.

Also, Jon Pepper, appears to be in some opinions the go to man for securing and retaining Cat 1 status. Is that why he’s been snapped up by some team in Nigeria and Chesterfield ladies?

In addition Sean Dyche is often credited with having had complete control of the club and being the one to deliver the facilities, does he take any blame for this?

Finally, people can defend Sean Dyche’s record on youth all they like but he only ever used youth players as an absolute last resort. Multiple instances of two keepers on the bench or an old head getting 5 minutes in a lost cause game ahead of a youngster. No doubting he did what he believed best but he did very little to progress youth players in his time with the club.

[arise_sir_charge]

One other point, there seems a bizarre correlation with the posters concerned about Cat one status and those also hugely concerned that we are likely to start this season with a centre half pairing produced by the best academy in the country……so is youth the go to for us or not? Why would players produced in our Cat one academy fair better than those produced in someone else’s?

[Top Claret]

Reading between the lines it appears that we got last seasons Cat 1 status by default something pushed through by the last owners to push the club asking price up, which doesn't surprise me as they only had one thing in mind and that was lining their own pockets at the clubs expense.

The other thing what alerts me is that it is the usual suspects having a pop at Pace, those who have had there noises pushed out and don't get the same access to the inner circle

[Hipper]

That last paragraph of the club statement may be a dig at Dyche but it's more likely just a clumsy way of looking forward. If you wish then, the previous paragraph can be seen as a complement to Dyche. There were certainly a lot of young players brought in from other clubs for the under 23 side during his time.

To compare Dyche to other managers doesn't seem right anyway as he was here much longer and may well have had a bigger input into non first team aspects of the club. Since the days after Howe I thought it was the (to me sensible) practice to separate the first team management from the youth development set up but of course there must be some connection for the U-23s as that's where new first team players can come from.

I would think the question of Cat 1/Cat 2 will be a financial one - if we get back to the riches of the Prem we'll go for it but if it becomes clear we can't achieve this then Cat 2 it will be. Incidentally, what is the difference between the two of the costs?