We Have Been Spoiled In Defence

[warksclaret]

The start of this season has been exciting. Lots of new faces, no bedding in for many of them-bang straight into the team.Our play has totally changed-great possession stats, plenty of efforts, and some cracking goals. Its lovely to watch and a welcome change

What today however emphasised to me is -we have been spoiled with great defenders. On their day Tarks and Mee would have provided the rear guard and kept Blackpool out with great blocking, defending and reading of the game.If anyone got through we had the brilliance of Nick Pope. We also had the talkng at the back, with all three very vocal and commanding, and if either of the CH's were not available we had the brilliant Collins who seamlessly came into the team.

I have not yet seen todays goals but understand two were down to poor defending (I believe the other was just poor judgement by Muric). What I have seen several times though are the previous 3 goals we have conceded. What we really miss is the awareness of what is happening when the opposition attack. Taylor does not have the awareness of what is happening around him. Seems to be caught up between being a left sided centre back and LB-its understandable.He also dithers with the ball. I think it emphasises to me that we need a strong athletic CH, who is captain material that can talk and mentor THB and keep a calm head at the back.We have made radical improvements in the way we recruit, negotiate and get new players over the line. If we get just one more player this year I would want it to be this CH and I hope that from tomorrow we heighten the search. I suspect that without this player we will still score goals, but we will let the opposition break us down and score as many goals against us, if not more. The team will then soon lose the belief that we can retain a lead and win games

[Woodleyclaret]

THB was superb and Muric made several top saves after his howler. But we have to stop the nonsense of mauling about sideways and back passing. We were guilty of that last season and it's a recipe for disaster as we saw today with another 2 points thrown away

[Vegas Claret]

Defenders shone in our team because that's all we did

[Targetman]

Defenders shone in our team because that's all we did

Defenders like Tarky and Mee shone in our team because they were top class defenders. There wasn't many better centre back pairings in the Premier League.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Defenders shone in our team because that's all we did

Not really. They were by there own rights excellent defenders, true premier league quality.

[Lancasterclaret]

We had premier league defenders and a top class goalkeeper, and a team drilled to perfection over a period of about four years

This lot have had five ******* games so how about people take that into account?

[ksrclaret]

Taylor is not a centre half. Until we recognise that, we will continue to look suspect defensively. Nothing to do with being only 5 games in, and everything to do with him being a left back.

Harwood-Bellis will continue our tradition of having top defenders in the team though.

[Boroclaret]

Bit of pressure and they crumbled.

[TheFamilyCat]

He may well not be the best fit for the style of play, but what would you give to have Ben Mee in that team? I'm pretty sure a slight compromise in the style would be worth it to be more secure at the back. Not to mention his leadership, which we missed badly today. If Kompany decided he didn't want Mee, I think he's made a big mistake.

[Cirrus_Minor]

Granted they are all new to each other and the manager wants to play out from the back but that was a shocker today. Making ridiculous passes around the goal area for what appeared to be no reason whatsoever was stupid. It gave Blackpool hope where up to that point they were outclassed. The entire defence lost confidence and did not know whether to clear it or continue playing tippy tap.

[Quicknick]

This is the area of the side which will unhinge us in our bit for promotion unless we sign a dominant cenre half pronto.

[KRBFC]

Defenders like Tarky and Mee shone in our team because they were top class defenders. There wasn't many better centre back pairings in the Premier League.

Yes there was, the other PL centre backs didn't have the luxury of never leaving their penalty area and having all of their teammates putting in the defensive hard yards. Easy as **** to defend with 11 men behind the ball for 90% of the game.

[wbfc]

Looking at the team that won the Championship after a real battle and our current team ..i am not sure any of the current team would get in the championship team .seem a million miles off to me ... i think they will finish about where there are now...

i enjoyed the game today...that is what it is all about...i started watching in 1975...6 promotions in 47 years that is not very many ...all those teams had a strong spine ...i think we need at least 4 more players ...i do not think we will get more than 1 or 2...

sheffield united look the favourites to me

[FCBurnley]

Charlie should be left back where he excels We are seeing just how good a Dyche defence was !!

[Jakubclaret]

He may well not be the best fit for the style of play, but what would you give to have Ben Mee in that team? I'm pretty sure a slight compromise in the style would be worth it to be more secure at the back. Not to mention his leadership, which we missed badly today. If Kompany decided he didn't want Mee, I think he's made a big mistake.

It was ben mee who initiated the decision making process nothing to do with Kompany not wanting him, Ben wanted a last do in the PL & all the trimmings that go with that & rightly so, heaven & earth wouldn't have kept him here loyalty or no loyalty.

[Wembley09]

Silver lining from Maatsen red, is we will get to see Taylor in his position?

Taylor looks awkward at times in that wide cb role, and he slows us down alot when he's on the ball and looking for a pass.

Charlie at his best was running down the line, looking to beat his man and get a cross in.. not dwelling on the ball looking for vision and pass. Playing as a ball playing cb isn't really his forte.

[louieollie]

The big question is who will replace Taylor as the left sided CB for these three games Riley or McNally ? . If it wasn't for Lowt's being surplus and already ostracized from the squad would he have been an option moving THB over to the left and Lowt's fitting in at Right CB. Didn't he do that for us last season for a game if I remember correctly. I can't see any other options other than us getting a new and much needed LCB .

[Stayingup]

Defenders shone in our team because that's all we did

Nonesense. They were top class were Pope, Mee and Tarkowski. If you couldn't see that I don't know what your doing watching football. Oh and they were organized. They were far better than what we have now.

[Culmclaret]

They were superb defenders and it was a pleasure watching them do their jobs well week in week out until we stopped evolving as a team. Just felt like the Alamo in the past couple of seasons

[Targetman]

Yes there was, the other PL centre backs didn't have the luxury of never leaving their penalty area and having all of their teammates putting in the defensive hard yards. Easy as **** to defend with 11 men behind the ball for 90% of the game.

[IanMcL]

Dyche understood the Championship and the way to score and win. You need tough players. I think we have some 'nice' players but very soft centre.

The forward play is good. The defence not.
Fancying about at the back, at all costs, reminds of Arsenal when we and others, just knew it was going to happen, so clamped down on them, producing errors.

[tiger76]

Nonesense. They were top class were Pope, Mee and Tarkowski. If you couldn't see that I don't know what your doing watching football. Oh and they were organized. They were far better than what we have now.

Sadly it was always going to be tough to replace those 3, who have all moved onto PL clubs BTW, which would suggest they are capable of at least doing a job at that level.

Our biggest problem is VK doesn't yet seem to know what his first choice defence will be, but it's abundantly clear that Charlie can't continue as a LCB, it's simply not working, and it's costing us badly.

And if McNally can't get into the side I do wonder exactly why he's been signed, you'd assume he's the dominant CH we're crying out for.

I can't see where we're keeping a clean sheet at the minute, so to win a game we'll need to score 2, and yesterday even bagging 3 wasn't enough, which has to be a major concern if it isn't resolved soon.

[jrgbfc]

I'd like to see McNally given a go, certainly in the cup on Tuesday.

[RVclaret]

The big question is who will replace Taylor as the left sided CB for these three games Riley or McNally ? . If it wasn't for Lowt's being surplus and already ostracized from the squad would he have been an option moving THB over to the left and Lowt's fitting in at Right CB. Didn't he do that for us last season for a game if I remember correctly. I can't see any other options other than us getting a new and much needed LCB .

I’d imagine it’s a shoot out between McNally and Egan Riley, with the Shrewsbury game the ideal chance to make their claim.

[jrgbfc]

Thing is McNally has played regularly in league 1, so I'm sure he can handle the physical stuff. He should be a bit more battle hardened than Egan Riley.

[Top Claret]

We are going to struggle in finding a centre half who can actually defend and play with there feet on our budget.

That is the reason why I think we are going to struggle this season and like I have said previously we will be nearer the bottom than the top unless VK learns and learns quick. Playing this way will not get us out of the championship with a inexperienced and naive manager like VK he has to learn and learn quick or we are screwed

[paulatky]

Rather than a strong jaw this side has a glass chin

[Top Claret]

Thing is McNally has played regularly in league 1, so I'm sure he can handle the physical stuff. He should be a bit more battle hardened than Egan Riley.

3-1 up and he should have brought on Egan Riley but he put on midfielders and attackers it was crazy

[BleedingClaret]

Defenders like Tarky and Mee shone in our team because they were top class defenders. There wasn't many better centre back pairings in the Premier League.

CB Pairings
They were never asked to do it on their own like THB

[Vegas Claret]

Nonesense. They were top class were Pope, Mee and Tarkowski. If you couldn't see that I don't know what your doing watching football. Oh and they were organized. They were far better than what we have now.

of course they were good, their moves prove that fact - but that clearly wasn't what I was saying.

[Stayingup]

of course they were good, their moves prove that fact - but that clearly wasn't what I was saying.

You said because we defended all the time. Well we won 3-0 at Brighton and by tge same score at home to Brentford. So we didn't defend all the time. Had those three been in the team yesterday Blackpool.woukd never have scored.

[Vegas Claret]

You said because we defended all the time. Well we won 3-0 at Brighton and by tge same score at home to Brentford. So we didn't defend all the time. Had those three been in the team yesterday Blackpool.woukd never have scored.

jesus wept, found another that can't read between lines and takes everything literally. I know what I meant, you've not grasped it

[Targetman]

CB Pairings
They were never asked to do it on their own like THB

No you are correct, however I'm not disputing that, I was commenting on the remarks about last season's defenders.

Harwood-Bellis needs an experienced centre half playing alongside him, someone in the Ben Mee mould would be ideal. He is a fantastic prospect and would improve even more with a player like that who could talk him through the difficult parts of a game.

Its been mentioned on here before but McGreal and Gary Cahill were the perfect example of this.

[Hipper]

Sadly it was always going to be tough to replace those 3, who have all moved onto PL clubs BTW, which would suggest they are capable of at least doing a job at that level.

Our biggest problem is VK doesn't yet seem to know what his first choice defence will be, but it's abundantly clear that Charlie can't continue as a LCB, it's simply not working, and it's costing us badly.

And if McNally can't get into the side I do wonder exactly why he's been signed, you'd assume he's the dominant CH we're crying out for.

I can't see where we're keeping a clean sheet at the minute, so to win a game we'll need to score 2, and yesterday even bagging 3 wasn't enough, which has to be a major concern if it isn't resolved soon.

VK may not know his best defence but he's played the same back five in all the games so far. Before the Blackpool game our defence looked pretty solid, at least in terms of threats on goal, Muric hardly having a save to make. The Blackpool match was different. Either by their abilities or our mistakes they looked a real threat all through the match, particularly the second half.

Clearly a work in progress.

[Raconteur]

Looking at the team that won the Championship after a real battle and our current team ..i am not sure any of the current team would get in the championship team .seem a million miles off to me ... i think they will finish about where there are now...

Its good to remember that the team that won the Championship didn't get their 1st win of the season until the 4th game and only 2 points better off after 5 games with 8 points.

[ClaretTony]

Its good to remember that the team that won the Championship didn't get their 1st win of the season until the 4th game and only 2 points better off after 5 games with 8 points.

It did then win the 6th, 7th and 8th though.

It's no use doing any comparisons but the thread title is absolutely spot on. For a club our size, playing in the Premier League, we were blessed with the likes of Heaton, Pope, Keane, Tarkowski and Mee. Add to that, full backs who were good defensively.

This is a different team, playing in a different division. I agree with the comments on Harwood-Bellis though, looks a real prospect.

[Stalbansclaret]

Pope was (and is) a genuinely world class goalkeeper. Tarks and Mee were as good as any CB pairing in the PL imo ...we were blessed with these three. I think the current defence is OK ...barely conceding a shot until Saturday....but VK surely has to be more pragmatic in choosing substitutions and tactics when the opposition look like getting g on top. On Saturday Blackpool's number 11 Bowler started ripping us apart down their right (our left) side and this side of our defence is vulnerable anyway given Maatsen is an attacking wing-back rather than a real defender. Instead of making a change to lock down that side of our defence VK actually weakened it by taking Tella off (he had been doing a pretty good job of tracking back using his pace) and replacing him with Bastien. At 3-1 we should have been looking to nullify their growing threat.

[Spijed]

Pope was (and is) a genuinely world class goalkeeper.

With all due respect world class goalkeepers wouldn't have played for Charlton, Burnley and Newcastle.

World class goalkeepers play for the best clubs. He might be good but he certainly never will be regarded as world class otherwise he'd have carved out a career at a far bigger club.

[Stayingup]

With all due respect world class goalkeepers wouldn't have played for Charlton, Burnley and Newcastle.

World class goalkeepers play for the best clubs. He might be good but he certainly never will be regarded as world class otherwise he'd have carved out a career at a far bigger club.

To be fair to Pope he was late coming on the scene. World class keepers play for the best clubs? Who would they be? Newcastle have just drawn with the Champions of the best league in the world and are reputedly the richest club in the world.

[Stalbansclaret]

I just genuinely think Pope is as good as keepers who are "proven" world class e.g. Donnarumma, Courtois, Lloris, Neuer. I don't think he would be out of place in any team in the world as a keeper. I accept the reservations about his "footballing" ability but I rate him massively highly as someone who will keep the ball out of the net wherever possible.

[Stayingup]

Pope was (and is) a genuinely world class goalkeeper. Tarks and Mee were as good as any CB pairing in the PL imo ...we were blessed with these three. I think the current defence is OK ...barely conceding a shot until Saturday....but VK surely has to be more pragmatic in choosing substitutions and tactics when the opposition look like getting g on top. On Saturday Blackpool's number 11 Bowler started ripping us apart down their right (our left) side and this side of our defence is vulnerable anyway given Maatsen is an attacking wing-back rather than a real defender. Instead of making a change to lock down that side of our defence VK actually weakened it by taking Tella off (he had been doing a pretty good job of tracking back using his pace) and replacing him with Bastien. At 3-1 we should have been looking to nullify their growing threat.

Regarding Bowler Dyche would have used Arfield to check his runs. But Appleton outhought VK for the second half. They shut out our midfield. VK will learn I am sure and sometimes it may require a big solid defender in there.

[Quicknick]

I just genuinely think Pope is as good as keepers who are "proven" world class e.g. Donnarumma, Courtois, Lloris, Neuer. I don't think he would be out of place in any team in the world as a keeper. I accept the reservations about his "footballing" ability but I rate him massively highly as someone who will keep the ball out of the net wherever possible.

And keeping the ball out of the net is what a goalkeeper should be doing.

[Row Z]

Defenders like Tarky and Mee shone in our team because they were top class defenders. There wasn't many better centre back pairings in the Premier League.

We had a top class defensive set up, with a deep lying midfield and defensive wingers who all contributed to clean sheets.

That’s always been the reason our CBs have never been rated massively highly, because the system always protected them. Michael Keane has struggled consistently at Everton where the system is not as protective of him.

Tarks and Mee get moves to Everton and Brentford respectively. If they were genuine top class they’d be going to a top 4 / 6 team.

Dyche’s system made Kevin Long look adequate….

[Targetman]

We had a top class defensive set up, with a deep lying midfield and defensive wingers who all contributed to clean sheets.

That’s always been the reason our CBs have never been rated massively highly, because the system always protected them. Michael Keane has struggled consistently at Everton where the system is not as protective of him.

Tarks and Mee get moves to Everton and Brentford respectively. If they were genuine top class they’d be going to a top 4 / 6 team.

Dyche’s system made Kevin Long look adequate….

It seems that Tarky and Mee were never rated 'massively highly' by yourself and you are perfectly entitled to your opinion.

Yes we had a very good defensive set up under Sean Dyche but when that set up did get breached Tarky and Mee were inevitably the last line who blocked that goalbound shot or put in that saving last ditch tackle or made that brave headed clearance.

I didn't say they were the best but I did say that there wasn't many better partnerships in the Premier League.
At their respective ages there was little chance of a move to a top 4 club even if they had the skills of a Bobby Moore. Regardless of where they are currently playing they were both top Premier League class defenders for us.

Dyche's system gave us some incredible times watching our club over the last 10 years, admittedly it obviously wasn't all good, but as a Claret that decade will be something I will always remember.