Worried About the Price Cap?

[Andy_G]

Have to admit that I just don't understand how all this has happened. I'm genuinely perplexed about it all.

First we print tonnes and tonnes of money to "pay" everybody furlough instead earning a living. Suddenly inflation appears out of nowhere.

This is clearly Putin's fault.

Then we go ahead and put all of our budget for energy into renewables and the price of energy shoots up.

Putin definitely to blame.

You being sarcastic? Are you suggesting that government policies might have something to do with it?

Brexit a major factors as well. Bailing out the energy companies that went bust has cost billions and it's estimated that this has added at least £150 to domestic energy bills.

Highest inflation in G7 and one of the highest inflation rates in Europe show that it's not all Putins fault.

[bfcjg]

Back to topic, I am more worried for children and grandchildren we down sized and live in a well insulated house. We are adopting a like to have and need to have for things, in preparation for the hike in prices. We need long term to get nuclear and green energy sorted, short-term just get gas out of the ground, sod the tambourine bathers peoe will freeze to death sooner then a climate catastrophe.

[Lancasterclaret]

Back to topic, I am more worried for children and grandchildren we down sized and live in a well insulated house. We are adopting a like to have and need to have for things, in preparation for the hike in prices. We need long term to get nuclear and green energy sorted, short-term just get gas out of the ground, sod the tambourine bathers peoe will freeze to death sooner then a climate catastrophe.

Genuine question

Is it quicker to build a wind farm off the coast or build a fracking site?

[groove]

You being sarcastic? Are you suggesting that government policies might have something to do with it?

Brexit a major factors as well. Bailing out the energy companies that went bust has cost billions and it's estimated that this has added at least £150 to domestic energy bills.

Highest inflation in G7 and one of the highest inflation rates in Europe show that it's not all Putins fault.
I'm pretty sure he was indeed being sarcastic.

[BigChaCha]

If the billions of subsidies and tax breaks given to oil and coal companies for the last 40 years had been ploughed into renewables then we would not be in this mess.

If the billions of profit from energy companies that has gone to shareholders been ploughed back into renewables or used to reduce bills as we could have done if the industry was nationalised then we would not be in this mess.

The government has spent the last decade cutting back funding on core services that support the whole of society but especially the working class in order to protect taxing the super rich and so its no wonder that as soon as we've had to face some disruptive events such as Brexit, Covid and the Ukraine war the country has just collapsed on its arse.

Unfortunately the scary thing is we still have a govt thats more interested on stoking culture wars, playing to their base and protecting their donors than they are in actually governing and trying to help the people who need it. Even scarier is that plenty of people who this govt couldn't give a sh*t about and who are being screwed by this govt are still happy to defend and support them

I have about 2000 clients all over the world and deal with businesses internationally on a daily basis so I am more qualified to judge where we are as a nation than most and they are all experiencing exactly the same issues!... Some countries are suffering more from one particular issue but in general, everyone is experiencing the same worldwide... Are Brexit and the Conservatives responsible for their problems too lol?...

In fact, many of my international clients are suffering in different ways compared to my UK clients because they haven't had anywhere near the same handouts during the pandemic that we have and also have to pay for their medical care...

It's not rocket science!... Obviously, it's been exacerbated by the Ukraine issue but I said on the first lockdown and Government handout that we would be paying for this for the next decade at least... The same people who kept moaning about not enough or long enough lockdowns and handouts are the exact same people who are now moaning about the consequences!

[bfcjg]

We need gas short-term most homes are heated by it, the fracking infrastructure has started. We are actually buying fracked gas from the states so there is an element of hypocrisy. I 100% agree we need renewable ASAP and the energy policy should be above politics like the BofE.

[Darthlaw]

Having done the number crunching, I've worked out that, in my household, should we use the same amount of Gas as we did last December, we can look forward to a bill of £600 for December alone at current rates, before any increase in the price cap.

To say I'm concerned is an understatement.

As for what we'll be doing to mitigate, we'll be turning off many of the radiators and increasing the temperature the heating kicks in at. We'll probably spend more time visiting parents houses and the obvious wearing warmer clothes indoors.

We're lucky to be affluent enough to be able to cover the costs and draw from savings to get through this but I really do feel for those who are going to finish up choosing between heating and eating.

[ClaretAndJew]

Not sure if this is a fact or just a subjective observation, but I spent a few days in Scotland over the weekend and on the drive back noticed how many windfarms there are compared to what I've noticed in Northern England at least.

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1 ... 9570556929

Top prices for energy in Europe today

Course, we are No 1 in this

[Murger]

Just come back from Withernsea. There must be about about 20 wind turbines off the coast., most of them not even turning.

[BigChaCha]

Highest inflation in G7 and one of the highest inflation rates in Europe

We are a dynamic economy that is probably the biggest service-based economy in the world per capita... There is certainly no other service-based economy like it in Europe so it tends rubber-band far more than other economies but when on the positive side, it bounces back far faster and stronger than other economies, as seen when we got the temporary international post-covid bounce... You take the rough with the smooth... We had record investment in startups and technology in the last 2 years and have more international investment in technology than the rest of the EU combined so the underlying UK economy is still very strong.

[Lancasterclaret]

We are a dynamic economy that is probably the biggest service-based economy in the world per capita... There is certainly no other service-based economy like it in Europe so it tends rubber-band far more than other economies but when on the positive side, it bounces back far faster and stronger than other economies, as seen when we got the temporary international post-covid bounce... You take the rough with the smooth... We had record investment in startups and technology in the last 2 years and have more international investment in technology than the rest of the EU combined so the underlying UK economy is still very strong.

To back up stuff like this, people need to provide links

I agree with the service industry part btw (so we are going to have a hell of a crash), but I'm not sure about the rest

[Lancasterclaret]

Not sure if this is a fact or just a subjective observation, but I spent a few days in Scotland over the weekend and on the drive back noticed how many windfarms there are compared to what I've noticed in Northern England at least.

There are eight big ones visible from my house, and they were amongst the first ever put up in the UK

Hell of a stink at the time, but now?

Just part of the landscape

I think the NIMBYism is a real issue with wind farms

Fracking is genuine concerns about the short, medium and long term damage

[Jakubclaret]

Are multifuel fires worth the switch when considering the price of wood/coal compared to Gas? I am debating whether to take the plunge at around £2k to get 1 installed. Just conscious that the Government may step in and gas prices lower.

For a start you don't necessarily have to pay for wood in terms of buying it outright but the associated costs of running a chainsaw & parts need to be taken into consideration & a sack of coal isn't that expensive & can heat a 2 bedroomed house up for a good month if you've have the stove set efficiently using it in conjunction with logs, it's cheap if you know what you are doing it's ridiculously cheap to keep warm.

[Devils_Advocate]

I have about 2000 clients all over the world and deal with businesses internationally on a daily basis so I am more qualified to judge where we are as a nation than most and they are all experiencing exactly the same issues!... Some countries are suffering more from one particular issue but in general, everyone is experiencing the same worldwide... Are Brexit and the Conservatives responsible for their problems too lol?...

In fact, many of my international clients are suffering in different ways compared to my UK clients because they haven't had anywhere near the same handouts during the pandemic that we have and also have to pay for their medical care...

It's not rocket science!... Obviously, it's been exacerbated by the Ukraine issue but I said on the first lockdown and Government handout that we would be paying for this for the next decade at least... The same people who kept moaning about not enough or long enough lockdowns and handouts are the exact same people who are now moaning about the consequences!

Nope Conservatives and Brexit aren't responsible for problems other country's are facing but they sure as hell are partly responsible for the problems and size of the problems we are facing.

In terms of lockdowns my criticism was that we didn't lock down quick and hard enough and we didn't use the lockdowns (especially the first one) to build a decent track and trace system to help us manage it better and reduce the number and length of lockdowns needed going forward. As a result our lockdowns went on longer, were less effective and came back round quicker and for that again I have to put a lot of the blame at the door of our incompetent government

[It Is What It Is]

Media Frenzy!
If you didn't listen to or read the daily depressive news, which is all full of doom and gloom, life would be so much better.
Why worry about something which hasn't even happened yet?
Everyone is just walking under a permanent cloud at the moment... Get a grip. Live your life and see what develops.....
Yes, price increases on the way but let's get things into perspective.

[ClaretAndJew]

Media Frenzy!
If you didn't listen to or read the daily depressive news, which is all full of doom and gloom, life would be so much better.
Why worry about something which hasn't even happened yet?
Everyone is just walking under a permanent cloud at the moment... Get a grip. Live your life and see what develops.....
Yes, price increases on the way but let's get things into perspective.

Which perspective is that?

[Bordeauxclaret]

Media Frenzy!
If you didn't listen to or read the daily depressive news, which is all full of doom and gloom, life would be so much better.
Why worry about something which hasn't even happened yet?
Everyone is just walking under a permanent cloud at the moment... Get a grip. Live your life and see what develops.....
Yes, price increases on the way but let's get things into perspective.

Maybe because price increases have already happened????????

[taio]

Media Frenzy!
If you didn't listen to or read the daily depressive news, which is all full of doom and gloom, life would be so much better.
Why worry about something which hasn't even happened yet?
Everyone is just walking under a permanent cloud at the moment... Get a grip. Live your life and see what develops.....
Yes, price increases on the way but let's get things into perspective.

Hasn't happened yet - do you live in a parallel universe or is it just a case of I'm alright jack?

[It Is What It Is]

The perspective is....You cannot change something of which you have no control of. A bit like the weather really.

[Hipper]

I have about 2000 clients all over the world and deal with businesses internationally on a daily basis so I am more qualified to judge where we are as a nation than most and they are all experiencing exactly the same issues!... Some countries are suffering more from one particular issue but in general, everyone is experiencing the same worldwide... Are Brexit and the Conservatives responsible for their problems too lol?...

In fact, many of my international clients are suffering in different ways compared to my UK clients because they haven't had anywhere near the same handouts during the pandemic that we have and also have to pay for their medical care...

It's not rocket science!... Obviously, it's been exacerbated by the Ukraine issue but I said on the first lockdown and Government handout that we would be paying for this for the next decade at least... The same people who kept moaning about not enough or long enough lockdowns and handouts are the exact same people who are now moaning about the consequences!

Is the fact that this country borrowed money to deal with Covid affecting things now? Isn't borrowing usually for around ten years so the effects will be felt when we need to payback, or more likely, re-borrow? Or has the Covid borrowing affected our ability to borrow now?

Geniune questions, no more.

[Jakubclaret]

Media Frenzy!
If you didn't listen to or read the daily depressive news, which is all full of doom and gloom, life would be so much better.
Why worry about something which hasn't even happened yet?
Everyone is just walking under a permanent cloud at the moment... Get a grip. Live your life and see what develops.....
Yes, price increases on the way but let's get things into perspective.

Thing is nobody even knows how cold it's going to get & automatically assume the mercury will plummet to Siberian levels when it won't, a wool jumper & thermal longjohns will stand people in good stead, some people are just soft I think, fair enough old people (vulnerable people) need to be looked after everybody else should be pretty self sufficient with coping with whatevers thrown at them.

[Bordeauxclaret]

The perspective is....You cannot change something of which you have no control of. A bit like the weather really.

He says on a football messageboard.

[It Is What It Is]

I'm not an alright Jack.
if I wasn't a pensioner I'd be out grafting at work.
On cold winter days, I go to the local library where it's warm and comfortable. Read newspapers and t'internet.
Not ideal but saves the pennies...a lot of them.
Meet new people and love the social communication.
Not destitute but I have to be careful.

[Zlatan]

Nope Conservatives and Brexit aren't responsible for problems other country's are facing but they sure as hell are partly responsible for the problems and size of the problems we are facing.

In terms of lockdowns my criticism was that we didn't lock down quick and hard enough and we didn't use the lockdowns (especially the first one) to build a decent track and trace system to help us manage it better and reduce the number and length of lockdowns needed going forward. As a result our lockdowns went on longer, were less effective and came back round quicker and for that again I have to put a lot of the blame at the door of our incompetent government

'kinell DA - politics and Covid in the same post...! you trying to get banned

Whilst recent political issues in the UK cannot attribute to the similar effects worldwide, the political will of those in power across the world certainly has, in the UK the result of that political will was Brexit. So whilst Brexit itself is not the cause, IMO the driving political factors worldwide are the cause. Don't ask me to elaborate on them though, I don't want to be banned

[Boss Hogg]

Locked my energy bills last September with BG and I'm capped until November next year at last year's prices.
Saw it coming

Same thankfully. It’s appalling though when people are struggling to keeo themselves warm over the winter months.

[Boss Hogg]

I didn’t quite say that did I?

I said look for things that will at hedge against inflation as to not lose ~ 18% value of your own cash.

Look at what the value of gold did during Covid

Bear in mind that not everyone had the same personal inflation rate. Mine is nowhere near the headline rate.

[Paul Waine]

Just come back from Withernsea. There must be about about 20 wind turbines off the coast., most of them not even turning.

That's the big issue with wind turbines: if the wind isn't blowing they don't generate any electricity.

What it also means is that, if the wind isn't blowing and we aren't getting electricity from wind turbines, then we generate electricity from gas.

I've not looked, but I'd hazard a guess that we've got low generation from wind turbines these past few days and that the wholesale gas prices are high because we still need the electricity.

[Paul Waine]

I've not looked, but I'd hazard a guess that we've got low generation from wind turbines these past few days and that the wholesale gas prices are high because we still need the electricity.

Energy Dashboard: https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live

Current wind generation 9%. All renewables 32.8%. Fossil Fuels 54.5%

[fatboy47]

Again, if you can afford to do that, then this won't affect you

I think that far too many of us are completely unaware of how bad it is for millions, and that isn't great

Feel sorry for those who actually voted Labour....as for the cloth capped plebs who put their public school masters in charge, they can howl for all I care, as they watch Johnson's sponsors slobbering away at the trough.

[Stayingup]

That's the big issue with wind turbines: if the wind isn't blowing they don't generate any electricity.

What it also means is that, if the wind isn't blowing and we aren't getting electricity from wind turbines, then we generate electricity from gas.

I've not looked, but I'd hazard a guess that we've got low generation from wind turbines these past few days and that the wholesale gas prices are high because we still need the electricity.

Yes I saw a number of turbines recently in East Midlands and in Lancashire they were all stationary therefore no electricity being generated.. But thats the method our glorious elite has chosen for us. Gas turbines produce most of our electricity. So as Boris Johnson recently said. We'll get rid of gas. Good thinking eh? The MP's have enough wind to make the turbines blow.

[Stayingup]

Feel sorry for those who actually voted Labour....as for the cloth capped plebs who put their public school masters in charge, they can howl for all I care, as they watch Johnson's sponsors slobbering away at the trough.

Cloth capped plebs. Nice one. What are you?
Kier Starmer actually came up with a plan - I know its his first ever - which on the face of it looked good. Then you look at how and who will pay for it and it falls down. Except for tge windfall tax on energy companies - possibly. But then again they will pass the bill on to.the flat capped plebs. So its no win. The root of it is demand has exceeded supply.

[android]

If the billions of subsidies and tax breaks given to oil and coal companies for the last 40 years had been ploughed into renewables then we would not be in this mess.

If the billions of profit from energy companies that has gone to shareholders been ploughed back into renewables or used to reduce bills as we could have done if the industry was nationalised then we would not be in this mess.

The government has spent the last decade cutting back funding on core services that support the whole of society but especially the working class in order to protect taxing the super rich and so its no wonder that as soon as we've had to face some disruptive events such as Brexit, Covid and the Ukraine war the country has just collapsed on its arse.

Unfortunately the scary thing is we still have a govt thats more interested on stoking culture wars, playing to their base and protecting their donors than they are in actually governing and trying to help the people who need it. Even scarier is that plenty of people who this govt couldn't give a sh*t about and who are being screwed by this govt are still happy to defend and support them

Some nice populist evidence-free assertions about energy there DA!

On stoking the culture wars - would that include protecting women’s rights, same-sex attraction and child safeguarding (e.g. Tavistock)?

[Devils_Advocate]

Some nice populist evidence-free assertions about energy there DA!

On stoking the culture wars - would that include protecting women’s rights, same-sex attraction and child safeguarding (e.g. Tavistock)?

I've worked in the energy industry for nearly 20 years so I have a good idea how it works and I have seen some shocking changes over the last decade. With regards stoking culture wars then yes that is exactly the kind of stuff Im talking about and the list is endless

[Stayingup]

Is the fact that this country borrowed money to deal with Covid affecting things now? Isn't borrowing usually for around ten years so the effects will be felt when we need to payback, or more likely, re-borrow? Or has the Covid borrowing affected our ability to borrow now?

Geniune questions, no more.

I think and PW may correct me, but, as interest rates are rising then the amount the government will have to repay will have increased as motgages that are not fixed will. Maybe thats why the BOE, who have been heavily critisized for not increseing rates earlier to combat infletion, didn't increase rates earlier. The people who are currently on fixed rates for their energy and mortgages were seemingly very smart. The remainder are paying the price.

[android]

I've worked in the energy industry for nearly 20 years so I have a good idea how it works and I have seen some shocking changes over the last decade. With regards stoking culture wars then yes that is exactly the kind of stuff Im talking about and the list is endless

Interesting. I’m sure you know more about the energy industry than me. It was more the apparent dismissal of all the consequences of shareholders not getting those returns and so on.

As for the so called culture wars. The specific points I mentioned will be far and away the most important issues at the next election for me. Economic problems come and go. I would even be prepared to tolerate a brief flirtation with socialism if it meant protecting those rights. At present, the opposition are utterly deluded on these issues (with some honourable exceptions such as Rosie Duffield).

[fatboy47]

Cloth capped plebs. Nice one. What are you?
Kier Starmer actually came up with a plan - I know its his first ever - which on the face of it looked good. Then you look at how and who will pay for it and it falls down. Except for tge windfall tax on energy companies - possibly. But then again they will pass the bill on to.the flat capped plebs. So its no win. The root of it is demand has exceeded supply.

Fair comment...tend to agree with that, apart from maybe the last sentence.
For me it's been massively noticeable how little emphasis media and government have placed on any drive or campaign to reduce consumption...surely that should have been an integral part of the response.

[Lancasterclaret]

I think people want us to concentrate on the stuff that Android mentions, rather than the economic and social consequences that are coming

I get that up to a point, but I'd rather we spent our time sorting out the economy and the social issues we have, rather than stuff that is clearly very important to a minority on both sides of the debate, but of limited interest to the vast majority

[Devils_Advocate]

As for the so called culture wars. The specific points I mentioned will be far and away the most important issues at the next election for me. Economic problems come and go. I would even be prepared to tolerate a brief flirtation with socialism if it meant protecting those rights. At present, the opposition are utterly deluded on these issues (with some honourable exceptions such as Rosie Duffield).

All I can say is that if you think the points you mentioned in your previous post are by far and away the most important issues that face this country then IMO you are a perfect example of what the culture war tactics of this government and their client journalist driven media are designed to produce

[android]

Actually, the government and the media have been poor on these issues, although there have been signs of improvement thanks to Kemi Badenoch and others. It is mainly left wing lesbians that have brought me to this point. Thanks to some very brave women the fightback is gaining traction but the rights are still up for grabs. Maybe there was slight exaggeration for effect in my "far and away" comment but I definitely would not vote for anyone who is not prepared to make a stand on these issues (women's rights, the right to same-sex attraction and the child safeguarding point).

[android]

I think people want us to concentrate on the stuff that Android mentions, rather than the economic and social consequences that are coming

I get that up to a point, but I'd rather we spent our time sorting out the economy and the social issues we have, rather than stuff that is clearly very important to a minority on both sides of the debate, but of limited interest to the vast majority

People (women mainly!) have been concentrating on these issues long before our current economic ills came along. Astonishing that someone who is normally well informed can dismiss them as a minority issue! It would be well worth you reading up on it.

[IanMcL]

Free you say? Care to share?

Older Tesla. Came with free supercharging when I bought it for football!

[LaLigaClaret]

No need to worry as Richi Soon knackered and Surgical Truss have a Boris type oven ready plan to give you a few coppers towards your thousands of pounds fuel bills. Meanwhile those poor industry bosses will be down to their last few million bonuses and millions of pounds wages and share options and will have to survive going down to 12 bottles of champagne a week from 14.

[Lancasterclaret]

It is mainly left wing lesbians

Not even remotely surprised

[android]

I’m guessing you didn’t understand my point at all Lancs unless you have something against left wing lesbians! Just because I am neither left wing nor homosexual does not mean I am not prepared to defend rights to same-sex attraction. It’s more important than political differences. Crazy that we even have to debate it in this country in 2022.

[Lancasterclaret]

I’m guessing you didn’t understand my point at all Lancs unless you have something against left wing lesbians! Just because I am neither left wing nor homosexual does not mean I am not prepared to defend rights to same-sex attraction. It’s more important than political differences. Crazy that we even have to debate it in this country in 2022.

Its crazy that you think its an issue

[bfcjg]

We need clean energy and if it means getting coal up and used again but with carbon scrubbers etc then so be it, nuclear is the way forward and all electric but pathetic 7seless governments of all persuasions are more interested in short term electoral bribes either handouts or tax cuts we really have been let down badly.

[android]

Its crazy that you think its an issue

Sadly that is the reaction of most men.

Would appreciate you retracting your previous comment where you clearly misunderstood who I was supporting.

[Lancasterclaret]

Sadly that is the reaction of most men.

Would appreciate you retracting your previous comment where you clearly misunderstood who I was supporting.

Its not a case of retracting it, its a case of the thread is about the price cap and how damaging its going to be, and you've decided to take it off on a tangent about the issues that affect a minority

I've seen this stuff on twitter, and both sides do my head in

Its ominously close to the hassale and misinformation that was very prevalent around homosexuality in the 80s

People should be allowed to live how they choose with stuff like this tbh

[Lancasterclaret]

Not even remotely surprised

Android has informed me I've got the wrong end of the stick so I'll retract it

Using the phrase "left wing lesbians" isn't helpful btw