Football Ramble Drop In - Ben Mee

[Cleveleys_claret]

The lookey likey interview was so cringe worthy, all the journalists laughing when it was not funny in the slightest

[boatshed bill]

It's a real shame that 4 successive brilliant seasons in the Pl get eclipsed by the last 2 in which SD seemed to get further and further up his own rear end.

[warksclaret]

My guess is Stone. Plenty of issues with him in the past and it all seemed to go downhill after Tony Loughlan left and Steve Stone replaced him.

My lasting impression of Stone was towards the end of the SD era when SD went to him and Woan during the latter part of a game we were losing. It was obviously to seek their views on substitutions. Stone just looked up at the sky chewing gum vigorously offering no comment.It told me everything I needed to know about him

[claret2018]

The lookey likey interview was so cringe worthy, all the journalists laughing when it was not funny in the slightest

Oh god I’d forgotten about that, it was awful wasn’t it.

He had the air of “team leader after a few beers who no one likes but has to pretend to at work”

[JohnMcGreal]

Interesting stuff from Mee.

Listening to Dyche's interviews and podcasts, the contempt he has for people he considers to be below him is clear. If that had started to translate to the players, it's no wonder things went downhill.

Maybe he really was the Ginger Mourinho after all.

[TsarBomba]

It’s widely known that Dyche was disliked around the club by most of the staff and there was lots of eye rolling at the difference between how he was in front of the cameras compared to how he was around the place, day to day. This had been going on for years

Dyche was very much disliked around the club, and that had been the case for many, many years.

I also remember an interview he did on Soccer AM after our first promotion under him. Right at the start of the interview Dyche was congratulated, and as quick as a flash, he replied along the lines of, ‘yeah not bad considering I was getting booed not so long ago by the fans’. You could tell by the speed of his reply that he had thought about it beforehand. He was angry and bitter. A man like Dyche doesn’t forget being slighted.

In the end, Dyche and his ego became bigger than the club.

[Pickles]

The lookey likey interview was so cringe worthy, all the journalists laughing when it was not funny in the slightest

The cringeworthy peak of his interviews.

[dsr]

But apart from the two promotions, the inspired signings, the European qualification, and the 7 years in the Premier League, what did Sean Dyche ever do for us?

[Spiral]

Some of this is surprising news to me. When people say he wasn't liked around the club, are people referring to the staff who were subordinate to him like the medical staff and youth team coaches etc, or are we talking, like, ticket office people and the cooks and the security? Because I can see how his personality might grate being around him for a prolonged period of time on the football side of things (he isn't half as funny as he thinks he is, and I'd agree with the posts saying he was cringeworthy at times), but if he's doing catering's head in and the media team and such, that's out of order.

Also, he was great for us, that can't be denied, but this doesn't absolve being a knob, not does being a knob detract from his achievements. Personality and achievements are separate parts of a biography.

[HunterST_BFC]

But apart from the two promotions, the inspired signings, the European qualification, and the 7 years in the Premier League, what did Sean Dyche ever do for us?

Plus the training ground and turning budget and free players into internationals and often profits.

I'm stunned at some of the disreguard on this thread...

I'm guessing but - the ageing team was going to be broken down and funds were not available if we stayed up to fill with players capable of another PL campaingn... Thus followed a kind of resigning to the fact a change was coming, one way or another.
I'd be stunned if at some point SD did not upset the cart stating the glaring facts (as he had also had done the year before) and SD's frustration may have put a nose or two out of joint.

Just a hunch from me - I'm guessing the real reality of relegation and the ramifications and clear training ground issues (Woan? Stone?) plus the above maybe brought things to a head...

I for one am hugely grateful for the 10 years and transformation of our BFC he made happen on a tiny player budget.

I also feel the way the club failed to recognise his efforts and achievments over his time in charge, on his sudden departure was wrong!
Whatever the reason of how it ended. (very poor BFC)

Time moves on but never forget.
UTC

[SammyBoy]

Even during the great times at the start I was never able to listen to Dyche’s interviews, he constantly sounded like the manager of a big Tesco applying for a promotion. That said, you could always add the caveat “but by God he gets results” to any discussion of him. I reckon once we started struggling he just came across as a bit of a tool and got on peoples nerves.

[helmclaret]

Says Dyche was approachable at the start and ‘stand offish’ towards the end.

Anyone else pick up on the ‘lack of ideas’ comment as well?

It’s clear he doesn’t have much to say about Dyche which is a bit odd after all those years working with him and being captain.

[beeholeclaret]

I think to be a manager of any club you have to have leadership qualities an air of confidence about you otherwise others will take that mantle and walk all over you. You have to be the “gaffer” as they say in football terms. Some might get away with being one of the boys but not many are successful in this business. Bill Shankly was a successful manager popular with supporters but there were tales that if a player got injured (and was therefore unavailable for selection) he would walk past them at the ground and wouldn’t speak to them.

Inevitably almost every week a football manager will have to make decisions which put someone’s nose out of joint. Largely he appears to have been successful in managing his team to great effect. Besides the obvious fantastic achievements on the field which have put BFC ond the town firmly ‘on the map’ his other legacy is the building of the modern training centre at Gawthorpe. Most managers desperate for success would be banging on the chairman’s door for money every eeek. Dyche however appear to work prudently with the chairman to ensure he had money to attract the players he needed without jeopardising the future of the club. It’s a shame that things deteriorated in that relationship.

We’ve read about previous managers at the club and it is a precarious role with no doubt massive pressures which have to be dealt with, the press and media being one. Most managers have to put on a ‘mask’ and Dyche was good at this with his media bytes. Other managers (Paul Ince at Reading) wear their hearts on a sleeve and come across unprofessionally at times!

Jimmy Adamson was an icon at our club and had a band of players who loved him but apparently a number of players thought him to be arrogant and aloof. Think Owen Coyle, John Bond, Chris Waddle and Martin Buchan. All very different managers and personalities who had differing levels of success.

As I read some of the comments regarding Ben Mee it does create doubts about Dyche’s image about the place but it may not have been representative of all the years he was boss (maybe just a decline in relationships in recent years). I just think of players like Joey Barton, David Jones, George Boyd and Scott Arfield who achieved great success at Burnley. I wonder if they all had the same feelings about playing under Dyche.

I’m more than happy with his achievement at The Turf and hope his legacy is not tarnished by reports leaking out as they do.





He must’ve been doing something right to inspire such loyalty in his players.

[Hibsclaret]

It’s all very strange tbh.

On one hand you’ve had a great number of players that have played for Dyche successfully. On another there are few that have acknowledged him in a positive way. Joey Barton and Michael Duff I have heard acknowledge his management nous and that’s about it. Listening to Ben was surprising as he even sites his current boss as a good manager whilst not even wanting to talk about the one he had for ten successful years.

I think in normal life you would acknowledge a boss you had been successful with for ten years even if the relationship ended on a sour note. It seems to me that whatever has gone on behind the scenes has left a very bitter pill to be swallowed.

[Swizzlestick]

Yes, it does suggest something deeper has happened behind the scenes. These are surprising comments from Mee. It’s worth pointing out those who were with us in the glory years and for a shorter period, very different players like Barton and Defour, have been highly complimentary about Dyche.

I think things started to fall apart at the beginning of lockdown, when Dyche started kicking off about Garlick publicly, which was both unprofessional and jarring. Long story short, even the top managers can outstay their welcome, despite their achievements, and this is essentially what’s happened.

[andyh]

I think it makes Pace’s decision a lot more understandable.

At the time I thought it was madness but looking back it was a gutsy inspired call… even though we didn’t stay up.

[CoolClaret]

Yes, it does suggest something deeper has happened behind the scenes. These are surprising comments from Mee. It’s worth pointing out those who were with us in the glory years and for a shorter period, very different players like Barton and Defour, have been highly complimentary about Dyche.

I think things started to fall apart at the beginning of lockdown, when Dyche started kicking off about Garlick publicly, which was both unprofessional and jarring. Long story short, even the top managers can outstay their welcome, despite their achievements, and this is essentially what’s happened.

I think the real rot started to set in was during the Europa League Qualification he played a second string side away at Olympiakos.

Leaving out many of the first XI that got us there in the first place I believe left a sour taste.

It was also the sort of first time that Burnley fans were collectively a bit ticked off with downtooling for what could possibly be a once in a lifetime opportunity.

Maybe I’m clutching at straws but that’s how I and many others see it.

[Burnley1989]

Even Sir Alex had his critics from ex players, so it doesn’t concern me.

Great manager for us, always said he’d not be my cup of tea and he was like that nob head uncle at times but time to move on everyone.

[claret2018]

It’s interesting he has been out of work for 7 months now. Maybe his reputation within the game precedes him.

Or maybe he wants some time off, who knows.

[NewClaret]

I think it makes Pace’s decision a lot more understandable.

At the time I thought it was madness but looking back it was a gutsy inspired call… even though we didn’t stay up.

Very much so. Listening to Mee has made question whether it should’ve been done sooner. In hindsight though, probably perfect timing. Any earlier and the fans may have been much less understanding about the decision.

[Hibsclaret]

I think the real rot started to set in was during the Europa League Qualification he played a second string side away at Olympiakos.

Leaving out many of the first XI that got us there in the first place I believe left a sour taste.

May be close to the truth there. I was at Besaksehir for the away game and really thought it was one of the first times we had turned up not trying to win the game. We never had an attempt of note in the game. It was tepid.

[NewClaret]

It’s interesting he has been out of work for 7 months now. Maybe his reputation within the game precedes him.

Or maybe he wants some time off, who knows.

Can’t imagine this interview will help so have to hope he wants the time off!

I think this and the lack of messages from players after he left is pretty telling something was wrong in the dressing room.

V interesting also that Mee picked up that the club had been going backwards for a few years, just scraping survival. He was pretty scathing about that, whoever’s fault it was.

[Eloise Laws]

I haven’t listened to this article with Ben yet, but will do. Interesting to hear people’s views on Dyche after this, but I wish we could just move on, he’s gone. I doubt he reads this message board but if he does the fact some fans are still dissecting his tenure must feed his ego even more????
Memories are great to have but new exciting things happening around the Club/Team now with our new management team, let’s look forward.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I got abuse on here for bringing up Olympiacos at various times in recent years but I believed at the time, and ever since, that Mee would have had the hump with Dyche for sitting in the stand being spat at instead of playing. That was, and probably always will be, the biggest game of his career and he was benched. Maybe not the most consequential like a promotion or survival game but the biggest nonetheless when these players look back at their careers. For example, Jay’s biggest game was his England cap, even though for England that was a minor game.

The rot set in then.

[arise_sir_charge]

I always maintained that the European campaign was a major blot on his copy book.

It was the first time in his tenure that we stepped away from his ‘relentless’ mantra and took a more ‘toss it off’ approach and it transferred into our league form as well that year.

[NewClaret]

Even if Mee stayed, would VK have played him? No doubt he's a class defender but he doesn't offer much else like forward through balls and bringing the ball out of defence as THB & Beyer do. Can't see how he would have fit in and it would have been expensive in wages to keep him.

One interesting thing is that he said he was only offered a contract on 25th April, which ties in to CT’s previous comments on this.

I can only imagine then, that if Dyche were part of the future planning he’d have wanted Ben tied up long before then. So maybe this was always “on the cards” and ALK weren’t prepared to commit to Dyche players too early. You’d have to think that VK had verbally committed by that point (I’ve heard his strategists were helping the interim team in the final games) and had sanctioned the contract.

I personally think Vinny is probably more pragmatic than we think. I expect he’d have liked to have kept Pope & Mee had we stayed up. A top class, assured, experienced defender cannot be underestimated in the dressing room and we’re we to go up I’m sure he’d want one, even if they were less able on the ball.

By the sounds of it, his first team place isn’t assured at Brentford and if we went up I’d like to think we might look at whether we could bring him back in. Him or Dawson now he’s out of favour at WHU.

[Pickles]

Totally agree with others re the European fixtures. I spent a small fortune getting to Istanbul, gladly, and once there Dyche's selection and the performance was woeful.

I didn't expect Burnley to win, but to treat a very possibly once in a lifetime occasion for supporters (and I suspect Dyche himself) with such disdain made me lose a bit of faith and enthusiasm for Dyche's Burnley.

[Quickenthetempo]

I've just seen an interview on an Everton page with Tarky, where he his bigging up Frank Lampard so much. Saying he his learning so much from the coaching etc..

I get he wants to say nice things about his new manager, but things can't have been that bad at Burnley that a player of his age learns so much more?

[Lancasterclaret]

How many teams our size finish 7th?

Not bloody many

Expecting us to kick on from there with the long term injuries to three of our best players was (and still is) a tad unrealistic

And again, that home game v Olympiakos we absolutely battered them and Vokes missed two chances that he would normally bury

It happens

[CoolClaret]

I haven’t listened to this article with Ben yet, but will do. Interesting to hear people’s views on Dyche after this, but I wish we could just move on, he’s gone. I doubt he reads this message board but if he does the fact some fans are still dissecting his tenure must feed his ego even more????
Memories are great to have but new exciting things happening around the Club/Team now with our new management team, let’s look forward.

It’s a false dichotomy to infer that talking about the time around & leading up to Dyche’s departure means that we haven’t ‘moved on’.

The last few years were a puzzle and is rightly being debated/aired out on a football forum.

It’s bound to happen, the bloke was our manager for 9.5 years and seemingly had the Midas touch; all for it to turn toxic with rumours of fallouts etc pouring out left, right and centre after what a near decade of water tight leaks and a purported togetherness to be envied.

Non of this means we as clarets fans haven’t moved on - we’re unanimously behind the team as seen evident in our following for both home and away matches

[Swizzlestick]

I always maintained that the European campaign was a major blot on his copy book.

It was the first time in his tenure that we stepped away from his ‘relentless’ mantra and took a more ‘toss it off’ approach and it transferred into our league form as well that year.

It could be argued that he had a similarly blasé attitude to the domestic cup competitions before (and after) this too.

[Hibsclaret]

It’s the silence that has been deafening since his departure. This is literally the first time we have heard from someone other than Dyche that was in the know and rather than “he was great for me personally and the club” or even “he did ok” we get “can we move on” etc.

Moving on does not mean you can’t discuss a topic of interest to us all on a Burnley fc message board. What Ben has said is very strange and helps us get more clarity on the events leading to relegation.

[arise_sir_charge]

It could be argued that he had a similarly blasé attitude to the domestic cup competitions before (and after) this too.

Yes but the fundamental difference is that those are yearly events and the players hadn’t sweat blood and tears the previous year to qualify.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Things clearly fell apart at the end but I’m not convinced the rot set in after the Europa campaign.
We finished 10th the season after that. Which is a huge achievement in itself.

[Quickenthetempo]

How many teams our size finish 7th?

Not bloody many

Expecting us to kick on from there with the long term injuries to three of our best players was (and still is) a tad unrealistic

And again, that home game v Olympiakos we absolutely battered them and Vokes missed two chances that he would normally bury

It happens

You can't have it both ways haha. We wouldn't have finished 7th if every side buried their chances like your saying Vokes should.

The away leg at Olympiakos, Ben Mee was looking over the stand onto the pitch looking distraught he wasn't playing.
He was rested for the shambles at Fulham away a few days later.

As someone who spent 1000s going to both games with the family, it wasn't Dyche's finest hour.

He had massive bonuses to keep the club up though, so I can see why he did it.
But I can also see why it didn't win him many friends.

[ClaretPete001]

How many teams our size finish 7th?

Not bloody many

Expecting us to kick on from there with the long term injuries to three of our best players was (and still is) a tad unrealistic

And again, that home game v Olympiakos we absolutely battered them and Vokes missed two chances that he would normally bury

It happens

Indeed and this kind of highlights the bizarre nature of this thread and of the interview.

Both Mee and Dyche achieved amazing things with the club and to listen to such a downbeat and negative interview is quite bizarre.

Two of the three reasons why we got relegated was investment and the loss of Chris Wood - the third was a lack of ideas.

It doesn't take a genius to see that all three would have had a big impact and are self-evidently true.

My guess is that the whole club ran out of steam because the investment dried up, the senior leadership team wanted out and I guess everyone could see the writing on the wall.

Dyche was clearly wanted by ALK, and I guess they had enough feelers on the ground to know what relationships were like within the club before they bought it.

You would think in a few years time he will look back more fondly on Dyche and acknowledge what both achieved at the club. At this point, he probably just wants to move on. Been there myself - know what it's like.

[arise_sir_charge]

Indeed and this kind of highlights the bizarre nature of this thread and of the interview.

Both Mee and Dyche achieved amazing things with the club and to listen to such a downbeat and negative interview is quite bizarre.

Two of the three reasons why we got relegated was investment and the loss of Chris Wood - the third was a lack of ideas.

It doesn't take a genius to see that all three would have had a big impact and are self-evidently true.

My guess is that the whole club ran out of steam because the investment dried up, the senior leadership team wanted out and I guess everyone could see the writing on the wall.

Dyche was clearly wanted by ALK, and I guess they had enough feelers on the ground to know what relationships were like within the club before they bought it.

You would think in a few years time he will look back more fondly on Dyche and acknowledge what both achieved at the club. At this point, he probably just wants to move on. Been there myself - know what it's like.

I think ALK were heavily influenced by the outside view of Dyche and Burnley ie there is only him that can succeed and that the whole of Burnley idolises him. The truth was much different.

I believe that had fans been in the ground when ALK first took the reigns that Dyche would not have landed the contract he did.

The whole place was stale and compare that with what we see now at games in respect of crowd engagement, they are poles apart.

ALK aren’t daft and if they’d got the feel they ultimately got early in their tenure, he wouldn’t have landed the new deal.

[Lancasterclaret]

You can't have it both ways haha. We wouldn't have finished 7th if every side buried their chances like your saying Vokes should.

The away leg at Olympiakos, Ben Mee was looking over the stand onto the pitch looking distraught he wasn't playing.
He was rested for the shambles at Fulham away a few days later.

As someone who spent 1000s going to both games with the family, it wasn't Dyche's finest hour.

He had massive bonuses to keep the club up though, so I can see why he did it.
But I can also see why it didn't win him many friends.

I think you are missing my point

SD picked a team to win the home leg, and we should have won it by the required margin

It wasn't a weakened side, it was a side that dominated the game and if we'd taken our chances, we'd have won

[Lancasterclaret]

Its all moot anyway, pretty clearly Ben Mee and SD had a great relationaship or he wouldn't have been here as captain for as long as he was, and its not surprising that during COVID, with boardroom/manager discontent and the club up for sale that soured

[Hibsclaret]

Unfortunately he picked a weakened team in the couldron in Athens. We definitely needed Tarks and Mee playing that game. It was a mistake of that there is no doubt. The last thing you want is to be 2 down in a game against someone of the calibre of Olympiakos. Yes he played a stronger team in the home leg but the damage was done.

[CoolClaret]

Things clearly fell apart at the end but I’m not convinced the rot set in after the Europa campaign.
We finished 10th the season after that. Which is a huge achievement in itself.

The season after we finished 15th, it was the season after that, that we finished 10th in what was quite a weak Premier League.

It’s more the fact that Dyche reverted to type and sort of ‘battened down the hatches’ so to speak… Our style of play regressed as did the players we looked to bring in… then there was the Crouch head-on-stick fiasco that was quite frankly, laughable.

Fast forward to last season we had some games (such as Brighton away) where injuries forced a slight different lineup and play style and we got a result, only to go to type the following week; to stay in the game and try to knick a late goal… the players probably thought that they were better than that.

I think it’s obvious that Dyche and Garlick had a falling out for sure with regard to finances, but Dyche must also remember he’s the bloke that signed a lot of free agents north of 30 on big money. Probably to ‘minimise risk’ and just be able to do enough to keep us in the premier league following formulaic football to, over the course of the season, do enough to stay up.

Not to mention there was expensive signings that didn’t work out - most notably Ben Gibson

[ClaretPete001]

I think ALK were heavily influenced by the outside view of Dyche and Burnley ie there is only him that can succeed and that the whole of Burnley idolises him. The truth was much different.

I believe that had fans been in the ground when ALK first took the reigns that Dyche would not have landed the contract he did.

The whole place was stale and compare that with what we see now at games in respect of crowd engagement, they are poles apart.

ALK aren’t daft and if they’d got the feel they ultimately got early in their tenure, he wouldn’t have landed the new deal.

He got the contract in September 21 as far as I recall. ALK had been there 9 months and picked up no vibes whatsoever?

I live in the area and most fans I speak to are reluctant to speak as negatively about Dyche as fans on here. There is a general recognition of his achievements at the club.

[Bordeauxclaret]

The season we were in the Europa League we finished 15th.
After a poor start we had a very good finish to the season, taking our foot off the gas once safe as we often did.
Like I said the season after we finished 10th. No matter the strength of the league that was another big achievement for a club like Burnley.

[Lancasterclaret]

Unfortunately he picked a weakened team in the couldron in Athens. We definitely needed Tarks and Mee playing that game. It was a mistake of that there is no doubt. The last thing you want is to be 2 down in a game against someone of the calibre of Olympiakos. Yes he played a stronger team in the home leg but the damage was done.

He could have picked Brazil 1970 mate and it would not have made a difference

You not remembering the 2nd half referring performance?

[Big Vinny K]

I think you are missing my point

SD picked a team to win the home leg, and we should have won it by the required margin

It wasn't a weakened side, it was a side that dominated the game and if we'd taken our chances, we'd have won

Burnley did not have strikers who were good enough to take their chances. As much as I love Sam Vokes the reason he was at Burnley is because he needs more chances than the top strikers to score.
We were a team that when we won it was usually by small margins and it often needed us to have outstanding defensive or goal keeping displays or the opposition strikers to have off days.
The last thing a Burnley team under Dyche needed was to give the opposition a few goals start.
Pick your best team and hope they pull off one of their best defensive performances and bring back a draw or a 1-0 defeat and the team has a chance.

It’s this that is the point and why many fans were upset with the side Dyche picked in the first leg against a side with a very good pedigree in Europe.

[JohnMac]

I watched an interview Ben did 9 months ago and his comments were quite different regarding Dyche.

[RVclaret]

The whole approach to the Europa League stank. Recruitment which stretched as far as Staffordshire services and manager who clearly viewed it as far less important than the PL. Absolutely gutting looking back at it, no wonder the likes of Mee were p***** off.

[Hibsclaret]

He could have picked Brazil 1970 mate and it would not have made a difference

You not remembering the 2nd half referring performance?

Playing Gibson and Long in that game was a mistake. You can blame the ref or whatever else but it was a very poor team selection for a game that needed absolute full strength. We had barely started the prem season and he was treating it like a cup game. It was incredible for those wonderful defenders to have to watch second rate stand ins for that particular game. It was an incredible achievement to get into the Europa playoffs but we bottled it with apathy.

Nobody admires Dyche more than me for his achievements and the times he gave us as fans but there is still an air of what could have been.

[warksclaret]

Learned a lot from this interview from a guy who seems to be a very rounded and honest individual.Supports a lot of what I was fearing, the biggest lines I heard on it were that we had run out of ideas, and that we were rather fortunate not to have been found out in earlier seasons too.Interesting too that he was a different man for the media than to the team. Did not sense any love for him

I think SD looking back will know he had a fabulous position at Burnley, where he almost became bigger than the club. He got them consistency and a long spell in the PL,and got huge loyalty and patience back from the club. But he is never ever going to get a position like that again, and only has to go on one of his famous run of winless games that stretches 7 or 8 matches or more, and he is out on his ear. If he leaves it much longer to get a new managers job he will be quickly forgotton by the outside world

[Devils_Advocate]

I've got to agree with the points made around the Europa League team selection being a turning point. For me its not so much about whether we gave everything to win but its more that I think a lot of our players (Mee being one of them) wanted the chance to play European cup competition football with their teammates who worked damn hard to get themselves there.

In the grand scheme of things for Dyche and the club performance in the league is understandably more important but for some of the players (and the fans) this was a once in a lifetime opportunity and as a result resentment towards Dyche of the way he handled it is also understandable.

I think it was a few years before cracks started to fully surface but I think seeds of doubt in players and fans minds from what went on that Europe season will have helped widen those cracks more quickly