Benefit system to get a 10.1% pay increase

[atlantalad]

When I started work decades ago there was a "works" pension scheme running that I could join at 21. Most industry had these schemes running because there was a recognition that state pensions were a minimal safety net and, even then people were aware it would not provide enough for a person to retire on. At the time I recall it was optional but it was stressed it would be beneficial to give up some salary and put it into a pension to support yourself in retirement. Same applied for self employed - they put aside a % of earnings into a pension.

So, decades on........ do we really have a situation where people have not contributed to their own pension through their working life? Are there really people who have worked all their life just relying on a state pension?

[Mala591]

1C7709DB-D9F5-4DDD-919D-83DA93274C22.jpeg (110.66 KiB) Viewed 1909 times

I’ve just been on the Government pension credit calculator. I entered that I received £10 per week state pension and I had £56 in a savings account (imaginary information). This is the amount (as shown above) of credit I might get even though I hadn’t paid hardly any national insurance over 40 years.

Does this mean that someone who doesn’t pay any NI (or very little) gets (more or less) the same pension as those who pay many thousands of pounds every year?

[Gaia]

You get full council tax rebate on guaranteed pension credit so you would be better off than someone on full Suspension £185.15 per week.

[Jakubclaret]

I really don't think that is the reason the government haven't looked into encouraging drug driving.

Or perhaps a more salient point could be that with the nature of the medication & the mental state it's probably deemed unwise to proceed with trusting people to self medicate & no other reason.

[Billy Balfour]

OBR says living standards to fall by 7%. What a ******* mess.

[Nori1958]

OBR says living standards to fall by 7%. What a ******* mess.

Depends what standards that's based on.... Another headline with no meat on the bone

[Gaia]

7% fall back to 2013 level according to obr.

[Nori1958]

7% fall back to 2013 level according to obr.

Mine won't be I can assure you

[Lancasterclaret]

Its a pretty big deal to see a 7% drop in living standards

Pretending it isn't does suggest either an ignorance of reality or a "I'm all right Jack" attitude

[Nori1958]

Its a pretty big deal to see a 7% drop in living standards

Pretending it isn't does suggest either an ignorance of reality or a "I'm all right Jack" attitude

No ignorance here..... I know I will have no drop in any standard they want to mention
Iam nothing special, worked all my life, works pension but not yet state pension age, and I cannot see anything I need to cut back on in the next 12 months. There will be millions in my postion

[boatshed bill]

Its a pretty big deal to see a 7% drop in living standards

Pretending it isn't does suggest either an ignorance of reality or a "I'm all right Jack" attitude

I often wonder how they work this out, and to who it mainly applies.
I'm guessing the wealthiest 25% of the population won't even notice.

[Nori1958]

I often wonder how they work this out, and to who it mainly applies.
I'm guessing the wealthiest 25% of the population won't even notice.

Iam nowhere near the top 25%,and I won't notice

My mother living on her own, even further away from that top 25% won't notice either...

[CoolClaret]

Its a pretty big deal to see a 7% drop in living standards

Pretending it isn't does suggest either an ignorance of reality or a "I'm all right Jack" attitude

Yeah LC but just imagine if Labour was in power and what a state we’d be in then!

(This is satire just in case you were wondering)

[Lancasterclaret]

I often wonder how they work this out, and to who it mainly applies.
I'm guessing the wealthiest 25% of the population won't even notice.

Of course, if you have substantial wealth, then recessions and stuff like this don't matter

But if you are okay off, then it does, and if you are already struggling, then its even worse

[Volvoclaret]

Right all, I believe that now is the time to wrap up the experiment of Jakub using this message board whilst under the influence. It's pretty obvious that his mental capacity is impaired.

[Tall Paul]

Its a pretty big deal to see a 7% drop in living standards

Pretending it isn't does suggest either an ignorance of reality or a "I'm all right Jack" attitude

Looks like it's the second one.

[Bigbopper]

Of course, if you have substantial wealth, then recessions and stuff like this don't matter

But if you are okay off, then it does, and if you are already struggling, then its even worse

Have you any facts to back this up.

[Nori1958]

Have you any facts to back this up.

I doubt it... I might be in the okay category he talks about..... No impact on me

[Foshiznik]

Does anyone better informed than I, know why all the budget announcements don’t take effect until April rather than immediately?

[boatshed bill]

Of course, if you have substantial wealth, then recessions and stuff like this don't matter

The thing is that it should matter, because recession isn't just a financial thing, there will be social implications that will affect us all.

[Stacky_claret]

Depends what standards that's based on.... Another headline with no meat on the bone

Assuming it will be the average person / household

[Big Vinny K]

No ignorance here..... I know I will have no drop in any standard they want to mention
Iam nothing special, worked all my life, works pension but not yet state pension age, and I cannot see anything I need to cut back on in the next 12 months. There will be millions in my postion

The lack of self awareness of what you are saying is laughable.
There will be many more millions who will need to cut back than those few millions who won’t.
Energy costs will be around £1000 higher for the average household when the £400 runs out and the price guarantee cap increases.
Inflation is running significantly higher than wage rises.
Council tax will increase significantly.
Mortgage rates will go up further
Rental costs will go up even further on the back of fewer houses being sold because of the mortgage hike.
Etc etc

This is all extra costs and pressure on the millions of people who are already on their arses.

But you’ll be fine so thumbs up eh

[houseboy]

Proof is difficult to provide in some cases its just personal experience
When I started work 50 yrs ago, anyone wanting to bend the system went off with a bad back, in those days it was a difficult ailment to prove or disprove, many people took earlier retirement, sick pensions etc
Medical science moved on, and bad backs were easier to diagnose, so the less honest started to claim mental illness, something they had seen had left them unable to return to work, very difficult to disprove, and gives a bad name to those with genuine problems
Do I have the numbers.... No
Do I know who they were.... Yes
Can I prove it on here.... Not to the acceptable forensic level some require, but it definitely happened.... In a national organisation.

I take your point bud. To be honest I hate all these demands for proof as I have said often. My point wasn’t a demand for proof so much as pointing out the slight hypocrisy of asking for proofs and stats while being unable or unwilling to do so oneself. This is a message board for football (primarily) not a debating society at Oxford, but some seem to think it is.

[NewClaret]

7% fall back to 2013 level according to obr.

To be honest, I can’t recall my living standards being so bad in 2013 (arguably better) so if that’s where we’re headed I can’t see it as being such a bad thing.

It’s either an alarmist headline or they measure and present these things in the wrong way.

[Gaia]

Richard Hughes(Chair OBR) "Our real living standards will fall around 7% for the next 2 years.. the biggest fall on record.. meaning GDP will fall by 2% & it won't recover to its pre-pandemic level until the end of 2024.. wiping out 8 years of improvements in living standards.. "

[bfcjg]

TBH it is a worldwide issue the war the B word and covid pay back, however we do appear to be performing worse then a lot in the West and that is due to our low quality successive governments of all persuasions and their inability or desire to tackle the key issue of low productivity.

[NewClaret]

Richard Hughes(Chair OBR) "Our real living standards will fall around 7% for the next 2 years.. the biggest fall on record.. meaning GDP will fall by 2% & it won't recover to its pre-pandemic level until the end of 2024.. wiping out 8 years of improvements in living standards.. "

So our living standards are going to retreat to pre-Brexit levels.

Interesting.

[fatboy47]

TBH it is a worldwide issue the war the B word and covid pay back, however we do appear to be performing worse then a lot in the West and that is due to our low quality successive governments of all persuasions and their inability or desire to tackle the key issue of low productivity.

Ahhh... Mainly Labour's fault then. Got you

[Nori1958]

The lack of self awareness of what you are saying is laughable.
There will be many more millions who will need to cut back than those few millions who won’t.
Energy costs will be around £1000 higher for the average household when the £400 runs out and the price guarantee cap increases.
Inflation is running significantly higher than wage rises.
Council tax will increase significantly.
Mortgage rates will go up further
Rental costs will go up even further on the back of fewer houses being sold because of the mortgage hike.
Etc etc

This is all extra costs and pressure on the millions of people who are already on their arses.

But you’ll be fine so thumbs up eh

Glad to see you back...... Many assumptions again....

[Gaia]

OBR expects a rise in unemployment from 3.6% today to 4.9% in 2024 before falling to 4.1%.
OBR inflation forecasts:
2022 9.1%
2023 7.4%

OBR growth forecasts
2023 -1.4%
2024 1.3%
2025 2.6%
2026 2.7%

[Bigbopper]

Does anyone better informed than I, know why all the budget announcements don’t take effect until April rather than immediately?

It is the start of the new tax year, which possibly makes it easier to implement the changes.

[Big Vinny K]

Glad to see you back...... Many assumptions again....

Which are those are assumptions ? Many have already started and the rest are forecasts based on what pretty much every economist has predicted.

[bfcjg]

Ahhh... Mainly Labour's fault then. Got you

They are all culpable, including the lib dems in coalition, the most incompetent though was kicked out after 40 days or so,anyway politics will get this locked.

[Big Vinny K]

So our living standards are going to retreat to pre-Brexit levels.

Interesting.

That’s not really how living standards are measured.
It’s not a matter of going back to 2013 and remembering that was an ok year so it’s going to be ok now.
A drop in living standards basically means that a greater proportion of a persons income is being spent on the basics you need to live - food, energy etc.

It’s a complex formula to measure but it’s basically people having less disposable income and also a lot more people having no disposable income as their living costs start to exceed their income (all kinds of statistics like bankruptcy, IVAs, repossessions, etc etc will increase in the next few years)

[NewClaret]

But in that case my original post on the subject was correct - the way they measure or present the figures is wrong.

If you say 2013/8 years of improvement people immediately think “what were things like in 2013/8 years ago” and they’ll likely recall things weren’t so bad at all and arguably better.

So it’s either alarmist or a poor way to measure/present what they’re seeking to.

[LS7]

This message board is so profoundly depressing and most of its participants are utterly tragic middle aged men.

[Jakubclaret]

This message board is so profoundly depressing and most of its participants are utterly tragic middle aged men.

& probably dodged & fallen down the pitfalls of life & come through with plenty of experience & wisdom & should be listened to.

[Stacky_claret]

To be honest, I can’t recall my living standards being so bad in 2013 (arguably better) so if that’s where we’re headed I can’t see it as being such a bad thing.

It’s either an alarmist headline or they measure and present these things in the wrong way.

Not really getting that statement as we had much more spare in 2013 than we do now and that’s by some way
And the new measures haven’t even taken hold yet

[boatshed bill]

& probably dodged & fallen down the pitfalls of life & come through with plenty of experience & wisdom & should be listened to.

Are you sure about that?

[Jakubclaret]

Are you sure about that?

I'm still alive but showing the battle scars admittedly that surely must mean something

[Nori1958]

Which are those are assumptions ? Many have already started and the rest are forecasts based on what pretty much every economist has predicted.

You forgot to mention the help many will be getting

Anyway, Iam enjoying my fourth holiday abroad this year to much to get involved with somebody who makes things up about me.... Enjoy your evening

[Big Vinny K]

But in that case my original post on the subject was correct - the way they measure or present the figures is wrong.

If you say 2013/8 years of improvement people immediately think “what were things like in 2013/8 years ago” and they’ll likely recall things weren’t so bad at all and arguably better.

So it’s either alarmist or a poor way to measure/present what they’re seeking to.

I agree it’s not the best measure. Or probably more accurate the way it’s reported is usually confusing.

As we know over many decades the standard of living has risen. Poverty now is not the same as poverty in Victorian England or even in the 1970s.

As a country develops its infrastructure, its hospitals and care systems, education, working conditions, housing etc etc the ‘standard’ of living increases. So really for the most it should be an upward graph throughout history as a country develops. For example you are not going to close and get rid of half of your hospitals or schools.

A drop in living standards will often happen in a recession and also at times of high inflation - the more elongated the period the more serious the drop in standard of living.

It’s much more than a blip in the economy when a country goes back in standard of living by almost a decade. Tens of millions of people will feel this in the next few years. Does it mean they will all end up homeless or back in poor houses ? Nope because it’s all relative to the generation you live in and no recession would last long enough to result in this (or no recession in history has lasted that long to take standards back by generations)

[No Ney Never]

It's the notion that we should be cutting back that bothers me. How far do we cut back? Surely there's a limit as to how far we can. On the other hand, there's no limit to how much extra we can make/earn.
Costs will always rise, they rarely fall. In order to sustain or even improve our standard of living, we need to find ways of increasing our income, not cutting back.

[NewClaret]

Not really getting that statement as we had much more spare in 2013 than we do now and that’s by some way
And the new measures haven’t even taken hold yet

Exactly….

It sounds like a road back to paradise from where I’m sat. Give me 2013!!

[Gaia]

As people have less disposable income it's going to hit pubs restaurants and other forms of leisure, football clubs too.

[Jakubclaret]

As people have less disposable income it's going to hit pubs restaurants and other forms of leisure, football clubs too.

Time for people to get real about the prices their charge across the board. If you make no effort to diversify or evolve you deserve to sink you need to look at the trends & listen to your customers & proactively respond to change.

[NewClaret]

As people have less disposable income it's going to hit pubs restaurants and other forms of leisure, football clubs too.

Interesting you say this because, throughout this season as inflation has been soaring, attendances at BFC have been getting better.

For the first year ever (due to a family bereavement) my family decided to go out on Christmas Day this year. I tried every nice restaurant in 20 miles, with prices up to £120 per head - massively more than I ever thought of spending but was getting desperate as my wife really didn’t want to stay in - and they were all booked 2 months out. Oddly, the place I booked was £55/£30 and so the cheapest & only one with spaces after trying about 20.

Two very small examples and I appreciate that BFC has something special going on, and Christmas restaurant bookings are one day a year/special occasion… but I keep seeing signs like this that suggest people aren’t cutting back on these things yet.

[Gaia]

Yeah New but the recession hasn't properly hit us yet. The wealthier are not going to be affected as much so the higher end restaurants will be able to weather the storm. It's low wage towns like Burnley that will be affected more than more affluent places. May hit the club in terms of less merchandise sold.

[warksclaret]

Interesting you say this because, throughout this season as inflation has been soaring, attendances at BFC have been getting better.

For the first year ever (due to a family bereavement) my family decided to go out on Christmas Day this year. I tried every nice restaurant in 20 miles, with prices up to £120 per head - massively more than I ever thought of spending but was getting desperate as my wife really didn’t want to stay in - and they were all booked 2 months out. Oddly, the place I booked was £55/£30 and so the cheapest & only one with spaces after trying about 20.

Two very small examples and I appreciate that BFC has something special going on, and Christmas restaurant bookings are one day a year/special occasion… but I keep seeing signs like this that suggest people aren’t cutting back on these things yet.

Interesting New Claret-I think that Covid was such an unforseen disaster it made those that survived it realise that you just don't know whats round the corner. I am in this camp and made me think "enjoy life while you can". I am no better off than pre Covid, and infact retired just before it hit us, but today I would not think twice about going out for a meal,whereas a few years ago I almost needed to justify it. Or spending that bit more on holiday accomodation than I would have done two years ago.

[Nori1958]

Yeah New but the recession hasn't properly hit us yet. The wealthier are not going to be affected as much so the higher end restaurants will be able to weather the storm. It's low wage towns like Burnley that will be affected more than more affluent places. May hit the club in terms of less merchandise sold.

When I come to Burnley the beer prices are cheaper than most other places, so they've already adapted