Benefit system to get a 10.1% pay increase

[martin_p]

But you are conveniently forgetting that some of the high end earners are usually late starters & have spent years studying at college & then university before graduation & along the way have accrued debt not all are propped up by the bank of mum & dad they are playing catch up to the low end for a good few years.

It’s easy to conveniently forget something that just isn’t true. .

[Jakubclaret]

It’s easy to conveniently forget something that just isn’t true. .

It must be 1 of the most collosal myths of mankind that students don't run up various forms of credit & take out loans plunging themselves into debt.

[jrgbfc]

Yes, but what I’m saying is how is that fair? The person earning 10 times more as a general rule of thumb has a considerably harder job. They will also be paying ten times more tax than the person earning less.

It was the working class, doing relatively low paid jobs that kept the country going during lockdown.

[Nori1958]

Excellent... But you still haven't explained what it is you want us to sacrifice, for the benefit of others

Come on Lancaster, you're not normally shy in your response..... What do you want us to sacrifice.... Its been over 24 hours now with no answer....... Did you use the wrong word?

[CombatClaret]

So, it looks like I am going to be paying an extra 15k in taxes over the next 5 years to supplement the underclasses. What a country we live in. And that's why everyone from Europe and beyond wants to come here.

You're being taxed in an attempt to curb inflation.
Taxes do not pay for government spending. The money is spent or 'created' first and taxed or 'deleted' later.

[pushpinpussy]

You're being taxed in an attempt to curb inflation.
Taxes do not pay for government spending. The money is spent or 'created' first and taxed or 'deleted' later.

Absolute rubbish. The rich are being taxed again to pay for the poor. The country is not a charity. Get out there and work. There are plenty of jobs

[Bordeauxclaret]

Lots of imaginary ones as well.

[Nori1958]

Absolute rubbish. The rich are being taxed again to pay for the poor. The country is not a charity. Get out there and work. There are plenty of jobs

Those that want to work do

Those that don't want to work dont

Nothings changed

[Nori1958]

Come on Lancaster, you're not normally shy in your response..... What do you want us to sacrifice.... Its been over 24 hours now with no answer....... Did you use the wrong word?

Ok
I'll sacrifice one car, season ticket, one meal out a week, 3 holidays instead of 4, sky, amazon prime, broadband... How does that benefit anybody else?

[Jakubclaret]

Those that want to work do

Those that don't want to work dont

Nothings changed

We can talk about it until the cows come home & often have done on this site before today. It's the age old problem that for certain people work doesn't pay when you are earning minimum wage renting the rent itself & the council tax & NHS allowances you'd be getting out of bed for a few quid an hour, some do out of pride & should be applauded for that but it's a slender minority that do.

[JohnMcGreal]

Absolute rubbish. The rich are being taxed again to pay for the poor. The country is not a charity. Get out there and work. There are plenty of jobs

The vast majority of the welfare budget is spent on state pensions, which is once again set to increase in line with inflation.

Once pensions are taken out, the majority of benefits are paid to people who are in work. Like pensions, these benefits are set to increase in line with inflation.

So who exactly is supposed to 'get out there and work'? Pensioners? People who are already in work?

You're not making much sense.

[Bosscat]

The vast majority of the welfare budget is spent on state pensions, which is once again set to increase in line with inflation.

Once pensions are taken out, the majority of benefits are paid to people who are in work. Like pensions, these benefits are set to increase in line with inflation.

So who exactly is supposed to 'get out there and work'? Pensioners? People who are already in work?

You're not making much sense.

nowt new there then

[fatboy47]

Absolute rubbish. The rich are being taxed again to pay for the poor. The country is not a charity. Get out there and work. There are plenty of jobs

There are indeed lots of jobs.

Over here on the island they just can't get folk to skivvy on minimum wage in the cold and damp on their hands and knees in the bulb fields whilst paying exorbitant rents for accommodation fit only for the most desperate of peasants.
The lazy gets.
Mind you, the job got done every year until brexit.

[Nori1958]

The vast majority of the welfare budget is spent on state pensions, which is once again set to increase in line with inflation.

Once pensions are taken out, the majority of benefits are paid to people who are in work. Like pensions, these benefits are set to increase in line with inflation.

So who exactly is supposed to 'get out there and work'? Pensioners? People who are already in work?

You're not making much sense.

Not many employers would take me on, age wise

But I paid into pension system since I was 16

They have moved the age I can claim it a couple of times

It's not free money, we have paid for it for many many years

[evensteadiereddie]

The triple lock has been kept to buy the Tories votes.
That's it.

[martin_p]

It must be 1 of the most collosal myths of mankind that students don't run up various forms of credit & take out loans plunging themselves into debt.

That’s not what you said.

[Jakubclaret]

That’s not what you said.

I said people what I'd describe as students studying throughout college & university accruing debt & as a result of that also bearing in mind the time spent studying they'd be slow out of the traps when it came down to earning money & paying the debt off.

[Nori1958]

The triple lock has been kept to buy the Tories votes.
That's it.

Yet Labour pleaded with them to keep it

[roperclaret]

Not many employers would take me on, age wise

But I paid into pension system since I was 16

They have moved the age I can claim it a couple of times

It's not free money, we have paid for it for many many years

That sixpence a week when you were 16 would go a long way now

[Nori1958]

That sixpence a week when you were 16 would go a long way now

If only..... If you don't know owt, don't make it up

[martin_p]

I said people what I'd describe as students studying throughout college & university accruing debt & as a result of that also bearing in mind the time spent studying they'd be slow out of the traps when it came down to earning money & paying the debt off.

And you said they’d be ‘playing catch up’ with the low paid for a number of years. Not true.

[evensteadiereddie]

Yet Labour pleaded with them to keep it

Hardly surprising.
Upset us gimmers at your peril!
Seriously though, the twenty odd quid a week rise is too much if you've got a works pension as well.

[roperclaret]

Bit tongue in cheek but this has been the issue. In 1980 average life expectancy was 72 (7 years of drawing a pension) now its 82. Millions of people needing paying for 10 extra years. On top of the cost to the NHS for keeping them alive. It’s the right thing to do but costs us all money

[Jakubclaret]

And you said they’d be ‘playing catch up’ with the low paid for a number of years. Not true.

Don't try to play clever because I'm capable of running circles around you. Depending on the course studied & also assuming no part time work & no other financial assistance that could well be the case that for a substantial period of time no real money would be earned.

[evensteadiereddie]

[Nori1958]

Hardly surprising.
Upset us gimmers at your peril!
Seriously though, the twenty odd quid a week rise is too much if you've got a works pension as well.

So labour support it because it gets tory votes.. You couldn't make that up..... Well you could

Does the 20quid cover the energy rises?

[evensteadiereddie]

No, you misunderstand.
Labour have had to swallow that pill because they can't afford to lose many pensioners' votes now so they have to go along with it.
At this rate, only pensioners, and a few of them at that, will be voting Tory anyway.
Im getting a £500 Winter Allowance too. Barmy.

[ClaretPete001]

The vast majority of the welfare budget is spent on state pensions, which is once again set to increase in line with inflation.

Once pensions are taken out, the majority of benefits are paid to people who are in work. Like pensions, these benefits are set to increase in line with inflation.

So who exactly is supposed to 'get out there and work'? Pensioners? People who are already in work?

You're not making much sense.

Pensions account for around about 40 per cent of the welfare budget.

[boatshed bill]

No, you misunderstand.
Labour have had to swallow that pill because they can't afford to lose many pensioners' votes now so they have to go along with it.
At this rate, only pensioners, and a few of them at that, will be voting Tory anyway.
Im getting a £500 Winter Allowance too. Barmy.

Same here, Eddie, and I didn't ask for it.

[Nori1958]

No, you misunderstand.
Labour have had to swallow that pill because they can't afford to lose many pensioners' votes now so they have to go along with it.
At this rate, only pensioners, and a few of them at that, will be voting Tory anyway.
Im getting a £500 Winter Allowance too. Barmy.

Or labour think its the right thing to do

I have no problem taking anything on offer, I've paid enough into the system

[evensteadiereddie]

Well, there is that I thought you were being a bit snarky when you made the comment about Labour..
Same here, I'm happy to accept anything the Govt chuck at me financially. They're wasting their time trying to buy my vote and I make a point of redistributing half of my Winter Allowance to those that really do need it.
The other half buys me a ski pass in January...

[martin_p]

Don't try to play clever because I'm capable of running circles around you. Depending on the course studied & also assuming no part time work & no other financial assistance that could well be the case that for a substantial period of time no real money would be earned.

Utter garbage. Please run rings around me.

[evensteadiereddie]

This should be fun.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Don't try to play clever because I'm capable of running circles around you. Depending on the course studied & also assuming no part time work & no other financial assistance that could well be the case that for a substantial period of time no real money would be earned.

Is that you Winston White

[Jakubclaret]

Utter garbage. Please run rings around me.

Please? that's already happened you had nothing really of any substance to counter my claim that's it's possible for some students to lag behind financially for a considerable amount of time (years) in some cases subject to the length of studying & the debt built up as a complete package.

[martin_p]

Please? that's already happened you had nothing really of any substance to counter my claim that's it's possible for some students to lag behind financially for a considerable amount of time (years) in some cases subject to the length of studying & the debt built up as a complete package.

Well for a start students have to be earning over approximately £26k a year before they pay a penny back so they’re already earning more than the really low paid before their loan repayments kick in.

[TheFamilyCat]

Don't try to play clever because I'm capable of running circles around you. Depending on the course studied & also assuming no part time work & no other financial assistance that could well be the case that for a substantial period of time no real money would be earned.

FFS. I've just pulled a muscle laughing at that.

[Jakubclaret]

Well for a start students have to be earning over approximately £26k a year before they pay a penny back so they’re already earning more than the really low paid before their loan repayments kick in.

Exactly it will take them ages to get themselves on a even keel can we just forget about the years lost when they could have been potentially earning & the debt attached? You are basing everything post graduation & not starting from leaving school.

[evensteadiereddie]

It's a shame I've got to go out in a few minutes.
Looks like Jakub's playing the role of the board's crash test dummy again.
Should be a good 'un.

[Nori1958]

Well, there is that I thought you were being a bit snarky when you made the comment about Labour..
Same here, I'm happy to accept anything the Govt chuck at me financially. They're wasting their time trying to buy my vote and I make a point of redistributing half of my Winter Allowance to those that really do need it.
The other half buys me a ski pass in January...

I was only being snarky because of the comment about it being a only a vote winner when all political parties supported it
I paid tax and NI from 16 to 55.....at present I get nothing from the state, but my wife gets state pension, I reckon I've paid enough in to get something back.

[martin_p]

Exactly it will take them ages to get themselves on a even keel can we just forget about the years lost when they could have been potentially earning & the debt attached? You are basing everything post graduation & not starting from leaving school.

Given that the average graduate starting salary is about 5k higher than the U.K. wide average for 18-21 year olds it looks like that three year extra education is giving them a decent boost.

[CoolClaret]

I’m not sure how suggesting everyone pays the same level of tax equals that?

All this increase in taxation will do is result in more tax avoidance. The loopholes are there and people will just take advantage.

Because the rich will buy all the assets in the country (because they are the only ones that can) and in 20 years the middle class will be eroded and there will be rich and poor.

On our current trajectory, the average house price will probably be 10-20x the yearly salary.

It’s not sustainable, this neo-liberal end game is like frigginf feudalism

[boatshed bill]

Because the rich will buy all the assets in the country (because they are the only ones that can) and in 20 years the middle class will be eroded and there will be rich and poor.

On our current trajectory, the average house price will probably be 10-20x the yearly salary.

It’s not sustainable, this neo-liberal end game is like frigginf feudalism

This, and if way continue on our current path this country will be akin to the third world by 2050 (according to certain studies)

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/alexandrakuri/statu ... 3305024513

[Nori1958]

https://twitter.com/alexandrakuri/statu ... 3305024513

Last time of asking..... But any chance of an answer to my posts over last 24hrs

[Jakubclaret]

Given that the average graduate starting salary is about 5k higher than the U.K. wide average for 18-21 year olds it looks like that three year extra education is giving them a decent boost.

The 26k trigger you mentioned probably won't be reached for some not for a lot of years have you any idea how many are working at Sainsbury's stacking the shelves after leaving university the lucky 1s make it plenty don't it's not guaranteed.

[Nori1958]

Because the rich will buy all the assets in the country (because they are the only ones that can) and in 20 years the middle class will be eroded and there will be rich and poor.

On our current trajectory, the average house price will probably be 10-20x the yearly salary.

It’s not sustainable, this neo-liberal end game is like frigginf feudalism

I guess we thought that when our mortgage was 18%

[CoolClaret]

I guess we thought that when our mortgage was 18%

Christ almighty, stop being a parody for a second and get in the real world

[Gaia]

Nori have you had a state pension forecast lately. I know some pensioners who retire early find out they need a few post 2016 qualifying years to get full SP, especially if they contracted out

[martin_p]

The 26k trigger you mentioned probably won't be reached for some not for a lot of years have you any idea how many are working at Sainsbury's stacking the shelves after leaving university the lucky 1s make it plenty don't it's not guaranteed.

So these ‘high earners’ you referenced in your original post are going to university, getting a good class of degree then spending years working in Sainsbury’s before their degree finally gets them the high paid job the degree merits. Yeah ok.