Principles.

[Billy Balfour]

They could get Bungle to paint the whole team with a rainbow.

[HahaYeah]

e

[wilks_bfc]

Gutless cowards.

FIFA has demanded Belgium change their kit and remove the word 'love' which appears under the number. It's ostensibly something to do with an Adidas range, but it is being viewed as provocative. This is Qatar running the WC, not merely hosting it. It's a regional power play by making western nations by proxy of FIFA bend to their will.

The thing with this is that the word is on the inside of the collar so it’s not even visible whilst being worn

[HahaYeah]

Just watching the Wales match and one of the USA. Team has red white and blue dyed hair. So it looks like dyed hair is acceptable to FIFA - so why do England not have rainbow dyed hair??

+ Just add a red nose for the complete effect.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I don't think I'm any more ethical, moral or decent a person than anyone else on this forum, but I think a lot of you are very slow learners, and that's sad to see. This is happening before your eyes, and in the confusion of the moment it's difficult to see clearly, but it's a relatively new iteration of an old idea: using the prestige that comes with being a host to confer legitimacy upon oneself. All hosts do this to a degree, but then you ask yourself, 'considering their values, is it a good thing if the host nation is empowered?' But to separate the sport from the politics behind it and only pay attention to the spectacle is wilful blindness. That's allowing a corruption of your own mind, of your own principles and beliefs.

In the 1936 Berlin games the Nazis invented the myth of the eternal flame used in the Olympics. There was no such flame in the games held more than two-and-a half-thousand years ago. The Olympic torch is Nazi propaganda, still used today, the idea being that by hosting the event you're given the honour of being a protector or guardian of the eternal flame, mythologically connecting the present day (meaning, at the time, Nazi Germany and its worldview) to the past, to antiquity, to the games held in ancient Greece, a period — along with the Roman empire — which the Nazis alluded to a lot so as to draw a connecting line from Greek antiquity (the dawn of western civilisation), through the Roman Republic, then the Empire, then later the Holy Roman Empire, and finally, to the Nazis themselves, portraying themselves as having recaptured European power and culture for Germany, as though it were their destiny to have dominion over Europe.

So tell me, now that the lens of history provides us with a clearer picture, is your take-away from the 1936 Berlin Olympics merely that sport is "all about the escape from the regular?" And if you are willing and able to take a more nuanced stance on the 1936 Olympics (I hope you are), why do you resist doing so today with this World Cup, and with the model of nation-state club ownership more generally?

If that’s your opinion that’s fine I’m not particularly fussed with way.

Perhaps it’s just the people I hang around with, but when we are watching the games in person or on TV the promotions are never discussed and no one even notices unless the media highlight them.

I just genuinely don’t believe they carry the emphasis you think they do. I just think right now everyone should focus on the football bringing people together and stop looking at the things that pull people apart.

[bobinho]

Let’s hope Belgium grow a pair and tell FIFA to FIFA off.

Football needs to unite now and show FIFA the red card.

[No Ney Never]

Let's hope football is the main focus, after all, it is the reason why they're there.

[Spiral]

If that’s your opinion that’s fine I’m not particularly fussed with way.

Perhaps it’s just the people I hang around with, but when we are watching the games in person or on TV the promotions are never discussed and no one even notices unless the media highlight them.

I just genuinely don’t believe they carry the emphasis you think they do. I just think right now everyone should focus on the football bringing people together and stop looking at the things that pull people apart.

You enjoy the comfort of blinkers and care only for your own entertainment. Fine. That's always been the first rung on the collaborationist ladder. I pray this country doesn't take a turn for the worse in my lifetime with people with your attitude so abundant.

[Spiral]

And by the way, the idea that sport brings people together is a fiction. People compete on the field and shake hands before and after, then part ways, but tell me, is sport reconciling the Islamic theocrats who rule Qatar to the gay people in that country who are imprisoned for their sexuality? Does football bring together the families of the dead slaves who built those stadiums in which those players of ours smile without a care in the world when they scored today? Does sport bring Jews and Arabs together, Jews who have been banned from public prayer? How does a 90-minute farce bring those people together?

This is a cosy fiction you allow yourself to believe because you want to be entertained without feeling guilt.

[Newcastleclaret93]

And by the way, the idea that sport brings people together is a fiction. People compete on the field and shake hands before and after, then part ways, but tell me, is sport reconciling the Islamic theocrats who rule Qatar to the gay people in that country who are imprisoned for their sexuality? Does football bring together the families of the dead slaves who built those stadiums in which those players of ours smile without a care in the world when they scored today? Does sport bring Jews and Arabs together, Jews who have been banned from public prayer? How does a 90-minute farce bring those people together?

This is a cosy fiction you allow yourself to believe because you want to be entertained without feeling guilt.

Why would anyone in England feel remotely guilty about the laws and culture of a foreign country.

Just calm down we live in one of the most multicultural countries in the world with some of the most LGBTQ inclusive rights in the world. I wouldn’t worry that somehow all of that is going to collapse in the U.K. because they haven’t worn an armband today.

[Spiral]

Why would anyone in England feel remotely guilty about the laws and culture of a foreign country.

Just calm down we live in one of the most multicultural countries in the world with some of the most LGBTQ inclusive rights in the world. I wouldn’t worry that somehow all of that is going to collapse in the U.K. because they haven’t worn an armband today.

It's posts like that that make we question if people even read the thread and the words they're responding to.

[Newcastleclaret93]

It's posts like that that make we question if people even read the thread and the words they're responding to.

Ok let’s keep it simple.

What are you so outraged about? What change are you expecting

[Vino blanco]

The first modern Olympic Games where the olympic flame, lit by a torch, burned throughout the duration of the games was In Amsterdam 1928, not in Berlin in 1936.

[Spiral]

Ok let’s keep it simple.

What are you so outraged about? What change are you expecting

I've explained it all already over this and multiple other threads, even in conversation with you yourself. I usually like to flesh out the points I make and state them thoroughly, but in this instance, I'll stick to bullet point form.

• FIFA has sold football into political slavery. The Qataris, like all tournament hosts, use the prestige of hosting international tournaments to their benefit, politically more than economically. They are using this tournament to flex their muscles and demonstrate regionally as well as globally the power and prestige of the nation of Qatar.

• That show of power has now extended to the ability to bend FIFA, to make FIFA Qatar's bitch, in coarser terms. In the Arab world this is a coup, something of which other Arab countries will be envious. All it cost was a bit of pocket change by Qarar's standards.

• The Qatari regime is a horror show of human rights abuses, and the awarding of the tournament a horror show of corruption. Everyone knows this.

• This isn't a case of 'when in Rome do as the Romans do'. People say we should respect other cultures, but bigotry, despotism and corruption is not a 'culture', and if it is, it is not one to be respected.

• The meek concession to FIFA's demands is a de facto concession to Qatar's demands, as by this point FIFA has lost control of its own tournament. Qatar has fallen far short of the standards that FIFA, and by extension, individual federations, including our own English FA, expect of its hosts.

• The OneLove armband was a signal, a virtue signal, if you wish, that affirms England's stance on LGBT inclusion. Given what was said in the previous three bullet points, this is important, because it delineates between FIFA (who are beyond contempt at this point) and its practices, and our own beliefs and practices. We also could have used the publicity of the tournament to reaffirm our stance on workers' rights and human rights more generally. It is more important to do this now than in domestic or European football because our participation in this tournament could be viewed as indifference to Qatar's human rights abuses.

• The armband — as a form of protest — had little meaning beyond a signal of solidarity not only with LGBT people in Qatar, but also in England. The minute FIFA (read: Qatar) banned the armband with threat of punishment elevated the wearing of the armband from a signal, or gesture of solidarity, to an actual act of solidarity. To wear it and bear the consequences is greater and more defiant act, but those players capitulated, and end up making it even worse than if they hadn't decided to wear it at all, because now we know they aren't willing to stand up for what they believe in when there's actual skin in the game. This sends a message at home. The players capitulated, and all campaigns we hold in this country that promote inclusion are enfeebled and made empty because it's clear those players aren't willing to actually make a sacrifice.

• This is not a fatal wound for LGBT inclusion in this country because this is in my opinion one of the most — arguably the most inclusive country on Earth. However, this capitulation does two things: 1. it's a signal to LGBT people in England that they don't actually have the allies in powerful places they might have thought they had; and 2. it has shown that FIFA will suffer no consequences for its appeasement of a country which exhibits behaviours to which FIFA otherwise objects — the tournament could have become a farce if the European nations stuck to their guns, and demonstrate to FIFA that actions have consequences. The credibility of our objections is in tatters; it can only be restored by wearing the armband in the second game and suffering the consequences.

• I don't expect much change. Protest turning into farce might have spooked FIFA (more importantly, its sponsors), which could have brought the organisation back to decency, but the capitulations by the people with the power to do that — the players — has given a green light for FIFA to accept all the luxuries in the world that Saudi Arabia will offer its officials when they bid (and succeed) to host the tournament in 2030, where we will do this sorry song and dance all over again, because people didn't put up enough resistance the first time. I expect FIFA's apologism for barbarous practices to continue totally uninterrupted.

[Spiral]

The first modern Olympic Games where the olympic flame, lit by a torch, burned throughout the duration of the games was In Amsterdam 1928, not in Berlin in 1936.

My apologies, I should have spoken clearer. The relay, the quite literal passing of the torch, symbolically representing the link from ancient Greece to Nazi Germany, was a Nazi invention. They were attempting to have one foot symbolically in the past to create the image of legitimacy in the present.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I've explained it all already over this and multiple other threads, even in conversation with you yourself. I usually like to flesh out the points I make and state them thoroughly, but in this instance, I'll stick to bullet point form.

• FIFA has sold football into political slavery. The Qataris, like all tournament hosts, use the prestige of hosting international tournaments to their benefit, politically more than economically. They are using this tournament to flex their muscles and demonstrate regionally as well as globally the power and prestige of the nation of Qatar.

• That show of power has now extended to the ability to bend FIFA, to make FIFA Qatar's bitch, in coarser terms. In the Arab world this is a coup, something of which other Arab countries will be envious. All it cost was a bit of pocket change by Qarar's standards.

• The Qatari regime is a horror show of human rights abuses, and the awarding of the tournament a horror show of corruption. Everyone knows this.

• This isn't a case of 'when in Rome do as the Romans do'. People say we should respect other cultures, but bigotry, despotism and corruption is not a 'culture', and if it is, it is not one to be respected.

• The meek concession to FIFA's demands is a de facto concession to Qatar's demands, as by this point FIFA has lost control of its own tournament. Qatar has fallen far short of the standards that FIFA, and by extension, individual federations, including our own English FA, expect of its hosts.

• The OneLove armband was a signal, a virtue signal, if you wish, that affirms England's stance on LGBT inclusion. Given what was said in the previous three bullet points, this is important, because it delineates between FIFA (who are beyond contempt at this point) and its practices, and our own beliefs and practices. We also could have used the publicity of the tournament to reaffirm our stance on workers' rights and human rights more generally. It is more important to do this now than in domestic or European football because our participation in this tournament could be viewed as indifference to Qatar's human rights abuses.

• The armband — as a form of protest — had little meaning beyond a signal of solidarity not only with LGBT people in Qatar, but also in England. The minute FIFA (read: Qatar) banned the armband with threat of punishment elevated the wearing of the armband from a signal, or gesture of solidarity, to an actual act of solidarity. To wear it and bear the consequences is greater and more defiant act, but those players capitulated, and end up making it even worse than if they hadn't decided to wear it at all, because now we know they aren't willing to stand up for what they believe in when there's actual skin in the game. This sends a message at home. The players capitulated, and all campaigns we hold in this country that promote inclusion are enfeebled and made empty because it's clear those players aren't willing to actually make a sacrifice.

• This is not a fatal wound for LGBT inclusion in this country because this is in my opinion one of the most — arguably the most inclusive country on Earth. However, this capitulation does two things: 1. it's a signal to LGBT people in England that they don't actually have the allies in powerful places they might have thought they had; and 2. it has shown that FIFA will suffer no consequences for its appeasement of a country which exhibits behaviours to which FIFA otherwise objects — the tournament could have become a farce if the European nations stuck to their guns, and demonstrate to FIFA that actions have consequences. The credibility of our objections is in tatters; it can only be restored by wearing the armband in the second game and suffering the consequences.

• I don't expect much change. Protest turning into farce might have spooked FIFA (more importantly, its sponsors), which could have brought the organisation back to decency, but the capitulations by the people with the power to do that — the players — has given a green light for FIFA to accept all the luxuries in the world that Saudi Arabia will offer its officials when they bid (and succeed) to host the tournament in 2030, where we will do this sorry song and dance all over again, because people didn't put up enough resistance the first time. I expect FIFA's apologism for barbarous practices to continue totally uninterrupted.

I understand the above points, but why would nations with so much power and influence across the world bow to our culture and beliefs?

I wouldn’t bet on England doing anything to upset the Qataris, the FA and British government will be scared of financial repercussions that the Qataris could afflict. Best not to forget that the Qataris them selves are heavily invested into U.K. business. As are the wider Middle Eastern family.

[Spiral]

I understand the above points, but why would nations with so much power and influence across the world bow to our culture and beliefs?

I wouldn’t bet on England doing anything to upset the Qataris, the FA and British government will be scared of financial repercussions that the Qataris could afflict. Best not to forget that the Qataris them selves are heavily invested into U.K. business. As are the wider Middle Eastern family.

This is precisely the problem.

The thing you need to understand is that in power relations there is only the force of the will. Objective notions of right and wrong don't come into it, because there's no such thing. You impose your will, your values, everywhere, incessantly, and you never yield. Compromise, perhaps, but compromise is the art of finding a mutually tolerable path between two opposing sets of values. What we've seen today is capitulation in a scene set by corruption. We think of corruption as backhanders and briefcases full of cash, metaphorically speaking, but it also means the process of degradation and decay, which is precisely what this state of affairs has led FIFA to suffer, a degradation of those principles of inclusivity (sport brings people together blah blah blah) that it was convenient formerly for FIFA to uphold. Its will, so to speak. If you want to host tournament, you must do X, Y, Z. Soft power in action. But this has been reversed. So debased is FIFA as an organisation that it doesn't bother even bother with artifice anymore. FIFA isn't a governing body in 2022, it's a racket, and one that we allowed to humiliate us...well, I say 'us', I actually mean the players, managers and associations of those seven European countries who everyone thought before today actually wanted to put up a tiny bit of resistance to Qatar's bull$hit.

[Spiral]

Female (but reportedly not male) Wales fans have rainbow-themes bucket hats confiscated by stadium security in USA match today.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -game.html

So if it's true that it was only women to have these hats confiscated, you can add discrimination on the basis of gender to this laundry list of utter bull$hit.

Are folk still confident sport is "bringing people together?"

[Newcastleclaret93]

Female (but reportedly not male) Wales fans have rainbow-themes bucket hats confiscated by stadium security in USA match today.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -game.html

So if it's true that it was only women to have these hats confiscated, you can add discrimination on the basis of gender to this laundry list of utter bull$hit.

Are folk still confident sport is "bringing people together?"

Spiral your losing a lost battle.

It’s the culture/religion. Nothing is or will ever change. It’s one of the scenarios where you just accept it and move on.

[Lancasterclaret]

This is precisely the problem.

The thing you need to understand is that in power relations there is only the force of the will. Objective notions of right and wrong don't come into it, because there's no such thing. You impose your will, your values, everywhere, incessantly, and you never yield. Compromise, perhaps, but compromise is the art of finding a mutually tolerable path between two opposing sets of values. What we've seen today is capitulation in a scene set by corruption. We think of corruption as backhanders and briefcases full of cash, metaphorically speaking, but it also means the process of degradation and decay, which is precisely what this state of affairs has led FIFA to suffer, a degradation of those principles of inclusivity (sport brings people together blah blah blah) that it was convenient formerly for FIFA to uphold. Its will, so to speak. If you want to host tournament, you must do X, Y, Z. Soft power in action. But this has been reversed. So debased is FIFA as an organisation that it doesn't bother even bother with artifice anymore. FIFA isn't a governing body in 2022, it's a racket, and one that we allowed to humiliate us...well, I say 'us', I actually mean the players, managers and associations of those seven European countries who everyone thought before today actually wanted to put up a tiny bit of resistance to Qatar's bull$hit.

I can think of something else in which the absolute hardcore minority refused to compromise, refused to do anything but derail any other solution to a clear issue, and here we are now, pretty f**ked

Beware the fanatics and those who believe that only they know the solutions

[Spiral]

Spiral your losing a lost battle.

It’s the culture/religion. Nothing is or will ever change. It’s one of the scenarios where you just accept it and move on.

Talking to you is infuriating.

I'm not expecting Qatar to change because I know they never will. I'm asking for people who talked the talk before this tournament started to actually walk the walk. FIFA has rolled over, and so have the craven, spineless countries whose criticisms of Qatar made before the tournament have been shown to be without substance. You've got a narrow view of this where the sheer inability to bring Qatar around to our worldview means we must sit back and let it happen, but that's not the point. What I'm saying that if the seven European nations stuck to their guns after being told they'd be banned, it would have sent a clear message to FIFA.

Accept it and move on?

What business is it of ours if the Nazis are openly antisemitic? It's the ideology. Nothing will ever change. It's one of the scenarios where you just accept it and move on.

You see how ridiculous your attitude is?

Only this time, FIFA is bending over backward to appease the host, threatening bans for protesting, and our craven virtue signalling players have shown that their words mean nothing.

Every single time a criticism is made of FIFA and Qatar on here, you pipe in to say words that amount to, 'please stop talking about this, it's making me feel guilty for enjoying it.' That's what it all boils down to with you, your selfish indulgence.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I can think of something else in which the absolute hardcore minority refused to compromise, refused to do anything but derail any other solution to a clear issue, and here we are now, pretty f**ked

Beware the fanatics and those who believe that only they know the solutions

How in any way are we ‘pretty ******’

Our country has the best LGBTQ rights in the world?

I also don’t see the point in forcing people to wear the armbands if they don’t believe in it. Like Alex Scott today, is it not hypocritical to wear that armband but to holiday in Middle East twice a year? She literally holidays in a place that has even stricter sentences than Qatar.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Talking to you is infuriating.

I'm not expecting Qatar to change because I know they never will. I'm asking for people who talked the talk before this tournament started to actually walk the walk. FIFA has rolled over, and so have the craven, spineless countries whose criticisms of Qatar made before the tournament have been shown to be without substance. You've got a narrow view of this where the sheer inability to bring Qatar around to our worldview means we must sit back and let it happen, but that's not the point. What I'm saying that if the seven European nations stuck to their guns after being told they'd be banned, it would have sent a clear message to FIFA.

Accept it and move on?

What business is it of ours if the Nazis are openly antisemitic? It's the ideology. Nothing will ever change. It's one of the scenarios where you just accept it and move on.

You see how ridiculous your attitude is?

Only this time, FIFA is bending over backward to appease the host, threatening bans for protesting, and our craven virtue signalling players have that their words mean nothing.

Every single time a criticism is made of FIFA and Qatar on here, you pipe in to say words that amount to, 'please stop talking about this, it's making me feel guilty for enjoying it.' That's what it all boils down to with you, your selfish indulgence.

Your comparison to Nazism is very strange. They were a political party.

This is an entire religion that over a quarter of the worlds population believe in.

Not at all, I am just open to other peoples religions and beliefs. I try to respect everyone. I worked in the Middle East for a while and they were an incredibly friendly group, that unfortunately had different views from myself.

[Spiral]

Your comparison to Nazism is very strange. They were a political party.

This is an entire religion that over a quarter of the worlds population believe in.

Missing the point again. You're focussing on the host. Can you not read in my post that I'm outraged at FIFA for being enablers, and with our own players (and the other seven European countries) for backing down? Qatar is beneath my contempt. I don't expect any better from them.

It's not about them, I'm pi$$ed off with us for effectively kowtowing.

[Spiral]

Not at all, I am just open to other peoples religions and beliefs. I try to respect everyone. I worked in the Middle East for a while and they were an incredibly friendly group, that unfortunately had different views from myself.

Sorry, I don't respect people who imprison others for being homosexual. Little more do I respect those who think it's acceptable to turn a blind eye to this fact while awarding a international sporting event those people.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Missing the point again. You're focussing on the host. Can you not read in my post that I'm outraged at FIFA for being enablers, and with our own players (and the other seven European countries) for backing down? Qatar is beneath my contempt. I don't expect any better from them.

It's not about them, I'm pi$$ed off with us for effectively kowtowing.

Have you ever been to the Middle East? Your posts about the place are getting quite extreme.

Qatar is genuinely not a bad place. The people are not evil villains trying to ruin everyone’s lives. They just have strong religious beliefs. Regardless of what people they say they are football crazy in the Middle East and enjoy talking about the premier league as much as any other person does.

[Spiral]

Apologism for a bigotry I presume you yourself are opposed to. This is what a complete sportswashing cycle looks like.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Apologism for a bigotry I presume you yourself are opposed to. This is what a complete sportswashing cycle looks like.

To keep it simple, I have spent time out there and can honestly say they have treated me with nothing but respect.
Just because we don’t have the same believes /views doesn’t mean we have to hate each other.

[daveisaclaret]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... s-28421444

Something to think about.

[Spiral]

To keep it simple, I have spent time out there and can honestly say they have treated me with nothing but respect.

They can't be bigots, they didn't treat ME, a (presumably) straight man, with disrespect.

Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb here, make a big assumption about you, and suggest you weren't imprisoned for homosexuality because you're not gay.

You were treated with respect because you, I presume, are not openly LGBT, nor were you, I presume, a low skilled immigrant labourer from a poorer country whose poverty was exploited, nor are you, I presume, a woman.

Your comprehension and understanding of things beyond your own personal experience is so low it's unreal. It must be so blissful to be in your head.

[fatboy47]

Some great posts there Spiral... But I guess youre playing chess with pigeons where Newcastle is concerned.
I'd save your breath now....the guys not for learning or understanding.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Some great posts there Spiral... But I guess youre playing chess with pigeons where Newcastle is concerned.
I'd save your breath now....the guys not for learning or understanding.

Fat boy I am merely saying that an entire religion is not evil.

I am not saying I agree with them, just that I don’t discriminate based on there religious beliefs.

[Spiral]

Some great posts there Spiral... But I guess youre playing chess with pigeons where Newcastle is concerned.
I'd save your breath now....the guys not for learning or understanding.

That's true, but my attitude toward these kinds of debates is kind of Socratic in spirit, in that I think there might be some value in it being read by others, it's not just about me and Newcastleclaret, and perhaps the conversation can raise things which other readers might not have thought about. Maybe in reading the dialogue, some others might see things in a different light, even if Newcastleclaret won't. I say that because I've read dialogues on here that give me a new angle on some topic or other, even if I'm not involved, and even if neither party budges. Some little truth might be found by way of dialectic, if you catch my drift.

[Spiral]

I am merely saying that an entire religion is not evil.

It's loathsome that this actually has to be pointed out, but literally nobody is saying that it is.

[Newcastleclaret93]

It's loathsome that this actually has to be pointed out, but literally nobody is saying that it is.

Perhaps it’s being lost in written form. That is just how I am reading it.

[Newcastleclaret93]

For the record spiral I think you have some very fair and accurate points. I agree with a lot of them.

I just like to share my personal experiences of the place and share my thoughts for the discussion

[Spiral]

Perhaps it’s being lost in written form. That is just how I am reading it.

Perhaps I'm not being explicit.

Let them believe what they want. Just don't lavishly reward those whose beliefs inform a bigotry on which they are completely unmovable.

[tiger76]

Christian Eriksen is adamant he's still going to wear the armband for Denmark today so we'll see if he sticks to that or not.

And if he does what will the ref or FIFA do.

[fidelcastro]

In four years time, I'm looking forward to the same media personalities virtue signaling about America's laws on abortion.

It's the same principle, right?

[evensteadiereddie]

I'm sure it will be mentioned, right?
It bloody well should be.

[RVclaret]

In four years time, I'm looking forward to the same media personalities virtue signaling about America's laws on abortion.

It's the same principle, right?

Yes already can’t wait for Lineker’s 2 minute long intro discussing the frequent school shootings in the US and their abortion laws, as well as Mexico’s cartel culture and corruption.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Yes already can’t wait for Lineker’s 2 minute long intro discussing the frequent school shootings in the US and their abortion laws, as well as Mexico’s cartel culture and corruption.

Must admit it will be interesting to see England take the knee when they play against the US team.

[evensteadiereddie]

Yes already can’t wait for Lineker’s 2 minute long intro discussing the frequent school shootings in the US and their abortion laws, as well as Mexico’s cartel culture and corruption.

Not sure the school shootings are state sponsored but hey ho...

[Newcastleclaret93]

Not sure the school shootings are state sponsored but hey ho...

Does that matter it’s still a systematic issue that no one in the state is willing to change.

There disregard of womens rights in relation to abortion is also incredibly poor.

[martin_p]

Does that matter it’s still a systematic issue that no one in the state is willing to change.

There disregard of womens rights in relation to abortion is also incredibly poor.

Blimey, this is whataboutery on an industrial scale!

[Newcastleclaret93]

Blimey, this is whataboutery on an industrial scale!

How is it? They are facts. Are they not worthy of highlighting?

[martin_p]

How is it? They are facts. Are they not worthy of highlighting?

Well for a start they are not facts. Abortion isn’t illegal in the USA, just certain states, so you’d have to direct your ire at host cities in those states. And mass shootings are actually illegal. You can argue over gun controls but using them to shoot people is against the law. Comparing that to it being illegal to be born a certain way in Qatar is utterly bizarre and should be beneath you.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Well for a start they are not facts. Abortion isn’t illegal in the USA, just certain states, so you’d have to direct your ire at host cities in those states. And mass shootings are actually illegal. You can argue over gun controls but using them to shoot people is against the law. Comparing that to it being illegal to be born a certain way in Qatar is utterly bizarre and should be beneath you.

I’m not comparing it? I’m saying surely this is worth highlighting on the world stage at the next World Cup?

[Bigbopper]

Christian Eriksen is adamant he's still going to wear the armband for Denmark today so we'll see if he sticks to that or not.

And if he does what will the ref or FIFA do.

He will wear an armband but will not refuse to play in the competition. Well there is money involved after all.

[martin_p]

I’m not comparing it? I’m saying surely this is worth highlighting on the world stage at the next World Cup?

What’s worth highlighting? The fact that there are murders or the fact that a previous administration loaded the Supreme Court with conservatives to overturn Roe/Wade which the current administration don’t agree with but can’t do anything to reverse?