Muric

[Steve1956]

I would question whether every player in our team today other than Cork would be adequate in the Premier League next season. I think that might face a bit more resistance than doing it about just Muric.

The thing is the other players in the team actually look like they have a clue what their jobs are...Muric sadly is a rabbit in the headlights who at the moment is winging it in a pretty dominating football team...he has little to do in games,when he's called upon he tends to struggle .

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The thing is the other players in the team actually look like they have a clue what their jobs are...Muric sadly is a rabbit in the headlights who at the moment is winging it in a pretty dominating football team...he has little to do in games,when he's called upon he tends to struggle .

You're sniffing glue with that statement

[Rileybobs]

I would question whether every player in our team today other than Cork would be adequate in the Premier League next season. I think that might face a bit more resistance than doing it about just Muric.

It’s a fair point, and I wouldn’t even be confident enough to claim that Cork will be good enough for the PL next season despite excelling at this level in this system. But we have depth and options in most positions (granted that some loan signings will depart). What we will need is a firm, solid number one. I think most would agree that Muric is a better option than BPF, but I would have very little confidence if he was our number one in the PL next season.

[helmclaret]

The thing is the other players in the team actually look like they have a clue what their jobs are...Muric sadly is a rabbit in the headlights who at the moment is winging it in a pretty dominating football team...he has little to do in games,when he's called upon he tends to struggle .

'Muric sadly is a rabbit in the headlights'

Eh?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

A lot of keepers in the Prem aren't comfortable with high balls. Pope is an exception.

Very true, just looking at those now

[Casper]

I don't know, because as we all know a GK needs to have solid defenders in front of them in the PL or they're left horribly exposed in the PL and can look worse than they actually are.

I think Muric is developing well with us, he's clearly improved from the start of the season and I think he'll get better.
He's getting good experience now and I think it will stand him in good stead for next season, in which he could well be a steady GK for us.

Based on today he clearly hasn’t improved

[Steve1956]

You're sniffing glue with that statement

Muric ....let's face it is a crap goalkeeper is what I meant to say

[helmclaret]

OK you are clearly on the wind up now. Never easy to have a balanced debate on here.

[Rileybobs]

Crosses into our box this season - 253
Crosses he's caught - 19/7.5%

The keeper who's faced the most crosses is Woodman at Preston, 388 crosses, 21 caught/5.4%

The highest catch rate is Patterson at Sunderland
Crosses - 377
Caught - 35/9.3%


Championship keepers aren't catching many crosses but you're determine to use this stick to bash Muric with

Firstly, I’m not bashing Muric with any stick, what a silly thing to say - I’m just saying what I see. Secondly, your post demonstrates how utterly pointless statistics are if used in the wrong context. I haven’t criticised Muric for not coming to collect crosses, I’ve criticised him for coming to collect crosses and missing them, thus leaving behind an open goal and chaos in the box.

Your statistics just show that he catches less crosses than one keeper and more crosses than another keeper. It’s a totally pointless statistic and irrelevant to the points being made.

[Steve1956]

'Muric sadly is a rabbit in the headlights'

Eh?

I thought you had gone to bed? Did you just log back on to say Eh....

[daveisaclaret]

It’s a fair point, and I wouldn’t even be confident enough to claim that Cork will be good enough for the PL next season despite excelling at this level in this system. But we have depth and options in most positions (granted that some loan signings will depart). What we will need is a firm, solid number one. I think most would agree that Muric is a better option than BPF, but I would have very little confidence if he was our number one in the PL next season.

I just don't see how it's a sensible or fair way to judge our signings. We're walking the league with Muric playing every game he can and he's definitely added more value than he's taken away from us this season.

[daveisaclaret]

The thing is the other players in the team actually look like they have a clue what their jobs are...Muric sadly is a rabbit in the headlights who at the moment is winging it in a pretty dominating football team...he has little to do in games,when he's called upon he tends to struggle .

Is this the thing is it aye?

[Steve1956]

Someone who is 6 foot six and can't catch a ball....I rest my case sorry guys it's just an opinion....but I think he's crap at his job ....goalkeeping....stopping the ball going in the net....I think that's his job ...which he fails at ....passing the ball around to his fellow defenders he's brilliant

[helmclaret]

'stopping the ball going in the net....I think that's his job ...which he fails at'

He saved a penalty today.

[DCWat]

I just don't see how it's a sensible or fair way to judge our signings. We're walking the league with Muric playing every game he can and he's definitely added more value than he's taken away from us this season.

That’s probably not a great measure, when we consider just how dominant we have been in most games. When we come under pressure, which we will far more frequently, should we make it back to the Premier League, he’s looked shaky.

There’s no taking away from some of his contributions to the team offensively (though I do think he’d be caught out a bit playing like this in the division above). Equally, the areas of concern in his game are fair comment.

Putting his distribution to one side and assessing him purely as someone keeping goal, he leaves a lot to be desired.

He may come good, though I have my reservations. I think there are just too many areas of his game that look to be suspect. I’d wager that if we go up and he is our number one, it won’t take long before the majority are calling for a replacement.

[Steve1956]

'stopping the ball going in the net....I think that's his job ...which he fails at'

He saved a penalty today.

Which was his fault because he can't catch a ball,when Kompany leaves which we all know isn't to far away Muric will be right behind him playing football in his home country or somewhere else obscure....he was on loan at Forest and they couldn't wait to get rid of him.

[daveisaclaret]

That’s probably not a great measure, when we consider just how dominant we have been in most games. When we come under pressure, which we will far more frequently, should we make it back to the Premier League, he’s looked shaky.

There’s no taking away from some of his contributions to the team offensively (though I do think he’d be caught out a bit playing like this in the division above). Equally, the areas of concern in his game are fair comment.

Putting his distribution to one side and assessing him purely as someone keeping goal, he leaves a lot to be desired.

He may come good, though I have my reservations. I think there are just too many areas of his game that look to be suspect. I’d wager that if we go up and he is our number one, it won’t take long before the majority are calling for a replacement.

But my point is we signed him because he'd be an asset to our team in the Championship, and he has been. It's unfair to discount that just because you think he will struggle next season. VK's job over the summer was not to build a new Premier League squad, it was to build a new Championship squad and through that lens Muric has clearly been a success.

[DCWat]

But my point is we signed him because he'd be an asset to our team in the Championship, and he has been. It's unfair to discount that just because you think he will struggle next season. VK's job over the summer was not to build a new Premier League squad, it was to build a new Championship squad and through that lens Muric has clearly been a success.

You’re correct in saying he’s for this season and he has contributed to the team, I’m certainly not denying that. Whether he will be for next season remains to be seen.

I’ve seen enough of him at this level to have a view that he’s not a particularly good Championship goalkeeper. He has benefitted because we’ve been so dominant and he rarely has much to do.

Had we been under pressure more regularly this season, I think he’d be coming in for some real criticism. As it is, he’s got away with looking shaky on the few occasions we have been pressured because of his decent distribution and because we’re winning games.

I’d love for him to prove me wrong, I just don’t see a keeper who is good enough at this level - he’d look awful in a side that weren’t so in control of games.

We’ve been spoiled in recent years with Heaton and Pope, in terms of proper goalkeepers, which probably doesn’t help him. His distribution is a real positive, his keeping less so.

[Vegas Claret]

he's improved quite a bit since the beginning of his first season, still work in progress but that's what we signed. Let the lad crack on with it

[Nori1958]

'He lacks very basic goalkeeping skills'

He wouldn't be on City's books if that was the case.

You mean like the Boro keeper?

[Swizzlestick]

Which was his fault because he can't catch a ball,when Kompany leaves which we all know isn't to far away Muric will be right behind him playing football in his home country or somewhere else obscure....he was on loan at Forest and they couldn't wait to get rid of him.

And yet VK is happy to keep him as number one. He’s not doing that for a laugh. Of course he can improve in certain areas but your contributions just reek of somebody who has pre-conceived opinions and is utterly unwilling to be objective.

[Nori1958]

You're sniffing glue with that statement

Look at the last two games
One player has nearly cost us the points in games we were winning at a canter, twice at qpr and twice today, but its OK.... He can pass a ball OK

[Swizzlestick]

Made a key save in that QPR game too but hey, we’ve got a narrative to keep here.

[blake's wand]

Pope was number one in the league for taking high balls in the prem when he was with us. Truly exceptional at it.

I think Muric is a good keeper but this is one of his major weaknesses. Given the quality of the opposition in this league, we'll get away with it though. However, his distribution is excellent and he makes up for it in other ways

[Quicknick]

Why didn't he stick his arm out for Boro's goal? He seemed to pull it back in. Good penalty save.

[RVclaret]

You’re correct in saying he’s for this season and he has contributed to the team, I’m certainly not denying that. Whether he will be for next season remains to be seen.

I’ve seen enough of him at this level to have a view that he’s not a particularly good Championship goalkeeper. He has benefitted because we’ve been so dominant and he rarely has much to do.

Had we been under pressure more regularly this season, I think he’d be coming in for some real criticism. As it is, he’s got away with looking shaky on the few occasions we have been pressured because of his decent distribution and because we’re winning games.

I’d love for him to prove me wrong, I just don’t see a keeper who is good enough at this level - he’d look awful in a side that weren’t so in control of games.

We’ve been spoiled in recent years with Heaton and Pope, in terms of proper goalkeepers, which probably doesn’t help him. His distribution is a real positive, his keeping less so.

You credit his distribution but at the same time struggle to understand that very attribute is part of the reason we are able to dominate games so much. The positions he takes up when we are in possession, the calmness on the ball no matter the situation, the ability to play long with accuracy or clip mid length balls to the wings, the entire team has full confidence in playing it back to him if they dont have a ball on forwards. Put Hennessey in net and you don’t see Burnley dominate games in the way that we are doing. I know people won’t understand that concept but I’ll keep trying to help.

[KRBFC]

Kevin Long could have played in goal today....and we would have won 3-0...don't get this "huge part of how we play shite"

Then you just don't know what you're watching, it's not our fault.

[KRBFC]

it clear people want him to fail for some reason.

He's a young keeper - give him a chance.

That's quite clear, Steve is one of those people. He slated him from the start without taking into account crucial factors like his age/lack of experience/new club/new team and now he's firmly stuck on that hill and nothing will change regardless of how Muric develops.

As RV pointed out, Nick Pope was playing in non league at the same age as Muric but people still wanna drag the same points? we get it, he's got areas of his game to work on, is that not obvious by the fact he's playing for us? in the 2nd tier.... 23/24 is incredibly young for a GK.

[KRBFC]

Someone who is 6 foot six and can't catch a ball....I rest my case sorry guys it's just an opinion....but I think he's crap at his job ....goalkeeping....stopping the ball going in the net....I think that's his job ...which he fails at ....passing the ball around to his fellow defenders he's brilliant

This is where your lack of football knowledge is incredibly evident, a goalkeepers job in a system like Kompany's isn't just to keep the ball out of the net. Nor is it just about ''passing it around to his defenders''. This isn't 1956.

It's the ability to receive the ball in tight areas whilst remaining calm enough to find a teammate, rushing off his line to sweep behind a high defensive line (which he's done immaculately so far). The ability to control the tempo of the game from the back as a unit relies on the ability of a goalkeeper to see the pass and then execute it. He's the best long passer of a football at the club without doubt.

Look at Pep Guardiola and some of the goalkeepers he's used, Claudio Bravo, Ederson and Victor Valdes, I wouldn't say any of them are brilliant shot stoppers or dominant from crosses. That isn't the most important thing for him, if it was he'd have kept Joe Hart (when he was really good) and not shipped him out instantly.

[CryerBFC]

I’ve been a fan of his since the day he signed, and continue to be. Could he be better at crosses, absolutely, but to be picky about one aspect of his game when he offers us so much going the other way, is daft.

Yesterday for example, watching closely, Boro countered with a minimum of 5 players. We give the ball away sloppily, there’s gaps to run in behind, or in the channels, they swing a ball in, with 3/4 of our defenders, and 3/4 Boro players attacking the ball, that’s a hell of lot of bodies for Muric to get through and claim, not to mention 2 seconds before he’s probably just sprinted back to his goal line, having previously been on the edge of the box before conceding possession, cause that’s how high he, and us, play.

He continues to make game changing saves, continues to put us on the front foot, and each game gets better. He gets my vote on confidence and will continue to do so every time he pulls on that shirt!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Firstly, I’m not bashing Muric with any stick, what a silly thing to say - I’m just saying what I see. Secondly, your post demonstrates how utterly pointless statistics are if used in the wrong context. I haven’t criticised Muric for not coming to collect crosses, I’ve criticised him for coming to collect crosses and missing them, thus leaving behind an open goal and chaos in the box.

Your statistics just show that he catches less crosses than one keeper and more crosses than another keeper. It’s a totally pointless statistic and irrelevant to the points being made.

He catches less crosses than several keepers, but they're not facing the same number of crosses.
It's only irrelevant if you're not interested in the stats, which clearly you're not whilst you're wielding this stick.

All keepers come for and miss the majority of crosses.
Even in the PL the highest catch % is less than 20%, but you're not interested in learning anything about that.

Muric is about average for collecting crosses into our box, yet the way some of you lot are going on you'd think he's an absolute calamity

Last season Pope had 605 crosses come into the box and he dealt with 46 of them, 7.6%, that's it but he was 4th in the rankings.
His % of crosses dealt with doesn't go above 9% whilst the number of crosses he faced is fairly similar for the seasons he was first choice for the entire season.

GK's just don't deal with many crosses into the box and thats because the defenders are meant to be the first players to get to them.

[taio]

He catches less crosses than several keepers, but they're not facing the same number of crosses.
It's only irrelevant if you're not interested in the stats, which clearly you're not whilst you're wielding this stick.

All keepers come for and miss the majority of crosses.
Even in the PL the highest catch % is less than 20%, but you're not interested in learning anything about that.

Muric is about average for collecting crosses into our box, yet the way some of you lot are going on you'd think he's an absolute calamity

Last season Pope had 605 crosses come into the box and he dealt with 46 of them, 7.6%, that's it but he was 4th in the rankings.
His % of crosses dealt with doesn't go above 9% whilst the number of crosses he faced is fairly similar for the seasons he was first choice for the entire season.

GK's just don't deal with many crosses into the box and thats because the defenders are meant to be the first players to get to them.

Crosses into the box tell us very little unfortunately

[JohnMcGreal]

I really like him. He's a better passer of the ball than half the chumps playing outfield in this league and has some very decent saves in him as well.

[helmclaret]

You mean like the Boro keeper?

That’s the first time I’ve seen that keeper play and he had a poor game. Again, he wouldn’t be on City’s books or playing in the Championship if he lacked basic goalkeeping skills.

I enjoy watching Muric play. He’s very young in keeper terms and rather worry about ‘what he would be like in the Premier League’ I’m happy to back him for now. VK knows best and I’ll back his judgement too.

[Nori1958]

That’s the first time I’ve seen that keeper play and he had a poor game. Again, he wouldn’t be on City’s books or playing in the Championship if he lacked basic goalkeeping skills.

I enjoy watching Muric play. He’s very young in keeper terms and rather worry about ‘what he would be like in the Premier League’ I’m happy to back him for now. VK knows best and I’ll back his judgement too.

VK's judgement was that he wanted another keeper, who fell through at the last minute, Muric even had the other guys welcome video

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Crosses into the box tell us very little unfortunately

If they tell us very little then why is it an issue for several people on here that he's average at coming out for them?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

VK's judgement was that he wanted another keeper, who fell through at the last minute, Muric even had the other guys welcome video

The deals for both keepers were at the same stage, hence why when one fell through at the last minute, the Muric deal was announced very quickly.
As for the video, maybe, just maybe, they used it as a parody

[taio]

If they tell us very little then why is it an issue for several people on here that he's average at coming out for them?

Those stats tell us very little in isolation - the box is a big place. It's crosses that weren't claimed that should have been, and whether handling crosses is a keeper's strength or an area of improvement, that are much more relevant. Many people won't need stats to know that Pope's strengths are Muric's improvement areas and vice versa.

[Hapag Lloyd]

Whilst he’s excellent with the ball at his feet, his basic goalkeeping skills leave a lot to be desired.

[Nori1958]

Whilst he’s excellent with the ball at his feet, his basic goalkeeping skills leave a lot to be desired.

It's like having a centre forward who cannot score, but is good at defending, unable to do the job he should be doing, but good at something else.

[NewClaret]

I really like him. He's a better passer of the ball than half the chumps playing outfield in this league and has some very decent saves in him as well.

Basically sums up my feelings. His passing is a joy to watch and could make him an elite level keeper imo. Obviously needs to tidy up his command of the box and positioning. If he nails those two over the next few years (he’s very young) we have one hell of a keeper on our hands. Just need to get behind the lad as we did today.

[Rileybobs]

He catches less crosses than several keepers, but they're not facing the same number of crosses.
It's only irrelevant if you're not interested in the stats, which clearly you're not whilst you're wielding this stick.

All keepers come for and miss the majority of crosses.
Even in the PL the highest catch % is less than 20%, but you're not interested in learning anything about that.

Muric is about average for collecting crosses into our box, yet the way some of you lot are going on you'd think he's an absolute calamity

Last season Pope had 605 crosses come into the box and he dealt with 46 of them, 7.6%, that's it but he was 4th in the rankings.
His % of crosses dealt with doesn't go above 9% whilst the number of crosses he faced is fairly similar for the seasons he was first choice for the entire season.

GK's just don't deal with many crosses into the box and thats because the defenders are meant to be the first players to get to them.

Why do you keep going on about a stick? I don’t have a stick.

You’ve ignored my whole post. You are talking about the number of crosses into our box and how many of them he collects. I’m talking about the number of crosses he attempts to collect and fails to, which is very high. Your stats are meaningless.

[RVclaret]

It's like having a centre forward who cannot score, but is good at defending, unable to do the job he should be doing, but good at something else.

As I pointed out on the previous page of this thread, statistically he’s the best shot stopper in the league.

This graphic also shows him above average for crossing and shot stopping.

I’m unsure what you mean when you say he isn’t doing the job he should be (a big part of his job for VK is ball playing, btw).

[Culmclaret]

He’s part of a team and a way of playing that doesn’t give the opposition a sniff. I’ve changed my view. I was very much a traditionalist when it came to goalkeepers but the game changes….perhaps you could argue it has gone back to the 1880s in terms of the keeper role. His range of passing is critical to the way we play and for that I am prepared to put up with his shortcomings. That said I am still not sure why he dived but failed to extend his arms for their goal uesterday

[Nori1958]

As I pointed out on the previous page of this thread, statistically he’s the best shot stopper in the league.

This graphic also shows him above average for crossing and shot stopping.

I’m unsure what you mean when you say he isn’t doing the job he should be (a big part of his job for VK is ball playing, btw).

How are stats about best shot stopper done?. Because we are dominating games he has little to do, so he may make 3 routine saves, but let a howler in, does that give him a 75% success rate and just ignore the goal?

[RVclaret]

How are stats about best shot stopper done?. Because we are dominating games he has little to do, so he may make 3 routine saves, but let a howler in, does that give him a 75% success rate and just ignore the goal?

No, quite the opposite of that. Post shot xG is one of the method analysts will look at. For an in depth explanation check out this article:

https://statsbomb.com/articles/soccer/a ... ted-goals/

It’s quite interesting, essentially it measures the quality of shot faced and places a probability on whether that shot should go in.

Muric is currently ranking as the top performing keeper in the Champ using this metric.

[Cooclaret]

I would question whether every player in our team today other than Cork would be adequate in the Premier League next season. I think that might face a bit more resistance than doing it about just Muric.

I hope you’ve sobered up champ.

Cork/Westwood are two certainties to be replaced if we move back up.

Cork is brilliant at this level, but he’s not got another season in the Prem in his legs.

[taio]

I hope you’ve sobered up champ.

Cork/Westwood are two certainties to be replaced if we move back up.

Cork is brilliant at this level, but he’s not got another season in the Prem in his legs.

Disagree. No sign yet that Cork won't be an important part of our squad next season even if we are promoted. Especially as we play a different formation than two central midfielders being exposed in the PL in a 442.

[Rileybobs]

No, quite the opposite of that. Post shot xG is one of the method analysts will look at. For an in depth explanation check out this article:

https://statsbomb.com/articles/soccer/a ... ted-goals/

It’s quite interesting, essentially it measures the quality of shot faced and places a probability on whether that shot should go in.

Muric is currently ranking as the top performing keeper in the Champ using this metric.

It seems very much like you’re finding a favourable statistic to back up your stance. Interestingly the author of the article says the following in your link;

’We don’t know if the data can show us whether different keepers have different strengths and weaknesses.

So I question your claim that he’s statistically the best shot stopper in the Championship because there is probably a statistical model which could be used to show that he’s the worst shot stopper in the Championship.

[RVclaret]

It seems very much like you’re finding a favourable statistic to back up your stance. Interestingly the author of the article says the following in your link;

’We don’t know if the data can show us whether different keepers have different strengths and weaknesses.

So I question your claim that he’s statistically the best shot stopper in the Championship because there is probably a statistical model which could be used to show that he’s the worst shot stopper in the Championship.

No, I’m using StatsBomb (partnered with several EFL clubs including Hull), they recently asked ‘Who have been the best shot stoppers?’

Again Riley, you challenge my use of stats by implying I’m being selective, and suggest there’s stats which show he’s the worst, please find it and show me as I’m very much open minded.