Southgate to stay

[Devils_Advocate]

Yep, really don’t rate him much higher than I did when he was potted by Middlesbrough. He has been very very lucky to have taken over just as massive investment in the national team brought through a golden generation. He has a squad of players that Bobby Robson would have killed for, and his England record wasn’t bad.

The way Southgate has transformed the way young players are brought through the England set up and into the full squad is one of the big reasons we have such a talented bunch of young players who have a lot of international and tournament experience

Next football has come along way in 30 years and relatively speaking players like Walker, Platt, Gazza, Baernes and Lineker were all world class in 1990. Then you have players like Butcher, Pearce, Robson, Waddle and Beardsley who were all top players on a par with our current squad in relative terms

Finally this was Robson's full competitive record that if judged across his whole tenure is average at best and in the most part pretty poor

Failed to qualify to '84 Euros from a group consisting of Hungary, Greece, Luxemburg and Denmark

In the whole of the '86 campaign we managed to beat Finland, Turkey, N. Ireland, Romania, Poland and Paraguay

In the whole '88 campaign we managed to beat N. Ireland, Yugoslavia, Turkey and we lost all three games in the tournament

In the whole '90 campaign we managed to beat Albania, Poland, Egypt, Belgium and Cameroon

So in 8 years and 4 competitions the only decent team we managed to beat was Belgium with the last kick of extra time

[Tall Paul]

The way Southgate has transformed the way young players are brought through the England set up and into the full squad is one of the big reasons we have such a talented bunch of young players who have a lot of international and tournament experience

Next football has come along way in 30 years and relatively speaking players like Walker, Platt, Gazza, Baernes and Lineker were all world class in 1990. Then you have players like Butcher, Pearce, Robson, Waddle and Beardsley who were all top players on a par with our current squad in relative terms

Finally this was Robson's full competitive record that if judged across his whole tenure is average at best and in the most part pretty poor

Failed to qualify to '84 Euros from a group consisting of Hungary, Greece, Luxemburg and Denmark

In the whole of the '86 campaign we managed to beat Finland, Turkey, N. Ireland, Romania, Poland and Paraguay

In the whole '88 campaign we managed to beat N. Ireland, Yugoslavia, Turkey and we lost all three games in the tournament

In the whole '90 campaign we managed to beat Albania, Poland, Egypt, Belgium and Cameroon

So in 8 years and 4 competitions the only decent team we managed to beat was Belgium with the last kick of extra time

And calling Belgium decent in 1990 is a bit of a stretch.

[Greenmile]

TIL Jordan Pickford, Harry Maguire, Luke Shaw, Jordan Henderson, and Mason Mount are part of a “golden generation”

[Devils_Advocate]

And calling Belgium decent in 1990 is a bit of a stretch.

Yep but i'm trying to throw them a bone

[elwaclaret]

The way Southgate has transformed the way young players are brought through the England set up and into the full squad is one of the big reasons we have such a talented bunch of young players who have a lot of international and tournament experience

Next football has come along way in 30 years and relatively speaking players like Walker, Platt, Gazza, Baernes and Lineker were all world class in 1990. Then you have players like Butcher, Pearce, Robson, Waddle and Beardsley who were all top players on a par with our current squad in relative terms

Finally this was Robson's full competitive record that if judged across his whole tenure is average at best and in the most part pretty poor

Failed to qualify to '84 Euros from a group consisting of Hungary, Greece, Luxemburg and Denmark

In the whole of the '86 campaign we managed to beat Finland, Turkey, N. Ireland, Romania, Poland and Paraguay

In the whole '88 campaign we managed to beat N. Ireland, Yugoslavia, Turkey and we lost all three games in the tournament

In the whole '90 campaign we managed to beat Albania, Poland, Egypt, Belgium and Cameroon

So in 8 years and 4 competitions the only decent team we managed to beat was Belgium with the last kick of extra time

You have listed less than a team… do you want to add Terry Fenwick and an aging Peter Reid? Not tht Iam making any case I need to defend. I have yet to see anything from Southgate that leads to such faith. As for bringing the kids through, that was all put in place before Southgate; which is why he could rebuild his reputation leading the U21’s.

[Devils_Advocate]

You have listed less than a team… do you want to add Terry Fenwick and an aging Peter Reid? Not tht Iam making any case I need to defend. I have yet to see anything from Southgate that leads to such faith. As for bringing the kids through, that was all put in place before Southgate; which is why he could rebuild his reputation leading the U21’s.

I've named 10 outfield payers all from one squad for a single tournament (Shilton was the keeper so unless you thoink Pickford is a world beater then there's not much in it). Neither Fenwick or Reid were in that squad but there were players like Trevor Steven, Neil Webb and Mark Wright who were all very good players

Southgate definitely was very influential in setting up the structure to bring in and manage young players and was one of the main reasons the FA looked to him and was very much his initial brief. An example of this was how he used playing 3 games where he could in international breaks with one game being focused on the young players getting game time. He even arranged a specific match against Wales where both teams would field young players at the cost of a normal friendly

[elwaclaret]

I've named 10 outfield payers all from one squad for a single tournament (Shilton was the keeper so unless you thoink Pickford is a world beater then there's not much in it). Neither Fenwick or Reid were in that squad but there were players like Trevor Steven, Neil Webb and Mark Wright who were all very good players

Southgate definitely was very influential in setting up the structure to bring in and manage young players and was one of the main reasons the FA looked to him and was very much his initial brief. An example of this was how he used playing 3 games where he could in international breaks with one game being focused on the young players getting game time. He even arranged a specific match against Wales where both teams would field young players at the cost of a normal friendly

All performed well for their clubs… as do the current bunch, but there is a lot more of them at similar level. I was pleasantly surprised by the way Southgate worked as U21 boss and by his first England steps. But Southgate was part of the Lillishall coaching system (though he only qualified later) that was pushing new techniques and development, so pretty much any one of them had those tools, but credit where it is due, he did the job he was still being trained for.

That England squad is as good as we have ever had, with the best attacking options overall of any nation and yet time and time again we concede the initiative to any quality we come across. England then play like Burnley did ‘fighting above their weight’ trying to soak up pressure and counter attack. Is he a safe pair of hands, undoubtedly… too safe England should be on the front foot against 95% of teams. They are not because Southgate is overcautious.

[Greenmile]

...That England squad is as good as we have ever had...

Were you born in 2010 or something?

[RVclaret]

That England squad is as good as we have ever had, with the best attacking options overall of any nation and yet time and time again we concede the initiative to any quality we come across. England then play like Burnley did ‘fighting above their weight’ trying to soak up pressure and counter attack. Is he a safe pair of hands, undoubtedly… too safe England should be on the front foot against 95% of teams. They are not because Southgate is overcautious.

Sorry but you must not have watched any of the World Cup as that’s exactly what we didn’t play like this year.

[Rileybobs]

That England squad is as good as we have ever had

2006 World Cup possible starting lineup;

Robinson
Neville
Terry
Ferdinand
Cole
Beckham
Gerrard
Lampard
J Cole
Rooney
Owen

with the best attacking options overall of any nation

France, Brazil, Argentina? Sure, we’ve got a lot of attacking players of a similar quality, but we can’t play all of them. We don’t have a Mbappe, Neymar or Messi.

[RVclaret]

2006 World Cup possible starting lineup;

Robinson
Neville
Terry
Ferdinand
Cole
Beckham
Gerrard
Lampard
J Cole
Rooney
Owen



France, Brazil, Argentina? Sure, we’ve got a lot of attacking players of a similar quality, but we can’t play all of them. We don’t have a Mbappe, Neymar or Messi.

Ahh the pain of seeing that line up and what Sven did with it.

[Greenmile]

2006 World Cup possible starting lineup;

Robinson
Neville
Terry
Ferdinand
Cole
Beckham
Gerrard
Lampard
J Cole
Rooney
Owen

Of our current 1st XI, there’s only Kane who gets in that team, imo. Maybe Saka or Foden for Joe Cole, at a push. Bellingham might yet turn out to be better than both Lampard and Gerrard, but he’s a way to go yet.

But yeah, the current “golden generation” is the best we’ve ever had, and it’s just Southgate holding them back

[bfcjg]

Ahh the pain of seeing that line up and what Sven did with it.

Yep,it wasn't just Ulrika he f#(ked.

[Devils_Advocate]

Ahh the pain of seeing that line up and what Sven did with it.

To be fair to Sven he turned around Keegans mess pretty quickly and we were pretty good in 2002. Then in 2004 we looked easily the best team and had Rooney not got injured we'd have probably won that Euro's. Even after Rooney went off we has a perfectly good goal disallowed in the last minute to win the game and even came back from the dead in exrta time to get it to pens.

2006 was a shambles and Sven had lost it by then but his 2004 England team was the best Id ever seen until our last Euro's campaign under Southgate

[elwaclaret]

2006 World Cup possible starting lineup;

Robinson
Neville
Terry
Ferdinand
Cole
Beckham
Gerrard
Lampard
J Cole
Rooney
Owen



France, Brazil, Argentina? Sure, we’ve got a lot of attacking players of a similar quality, but we can’t play all of them. We don’t have a Mbappe, Neymar or Messi.

You have not made a single point relevant to what I actually said, but it is not a subject that interests me overly either way.

[elwaclaret]

Sorry but you must not have watched any of the World Cup as that’s exactly what we didn’t play like this year.

In fairness I had papers due, so wasn’t taking much notice during the World Cup.

[elwaclaret]

Were you born in 2010 or something?

If you noticed I said Squad, not team.

[Rileybobs]

You have not made a single point relevant to what I actually said, but it is not a subject that interests me overly either way.

You said that this is the best England squad we’ve ever had. I’ve just gone back 16 years and shown you a starting lineup which is much better than one which could be fielded from our current squad. I’d say that’s quite relevant to what you said.

As for my second point, you said that we have the best attacking options overall of any nation. Again, I would dispute that. For example, I would say that having Lionel Messi is having better attacking options than Foden, Sterling, Saka and Rashford. I would much rather have a superior player for every position, than 4 players of equally inferior quality. So again, perfectly relevant to what you said.

[elwaclaret]

You said that this is the best England squad we’ve ever had. I’ve just gone back 16 years and shown you a starting lineup which is much better than one which could be fielded from our current squad. I’d say that’s quite relevant to what you said.

As for my second point, you said that we have the best attacking options overall of any nation. Again, I would dispute that. For example, I would say that having Lionel Messi is having better attacking options than Foden, Sterling, Saka and Rashford. I would much rather have a superior player for every position, than 4 players of equally inferior quality. So again, perfectly relevant to what you said.

And you are entitled to you opinion. Where have I said England have the biggest individual star? When is a starting 11 a squad?
That is why it is irrelevant to what I said. I am happy you are all delighted, and really I’m not that bothered.

[Rileybobs]

And you are entitled to you opinion. Where have I said England have the biggest individual star? When is a starting 11 a squad?
That is why it is irrelevant to what I said. I am happy you are all delighted, and really I’m not that bothered.

Nobody said a starting eleven is a squad, but it’s a lot easier to demonstrate the relative strengths of each squad by listing eleven players instead of twenty odd. How is the quality of England’s third choice goalkeeper, for example, relevant to how successful or not Southgate has been with the players at his disposal? You claimed that this England squad is as good as we’ve ever had, and whilst it is subjective, I challenge anyone to look at this squad, and the 2016 squad, and come to the conclusion that this squad is as good.

Again, I know you didn’t claim that England have the biggest star. But my example with Messi perhaps just goes to demonstrate how irrelevant your points actually are. Because do you think Southgate would rather be able to start with Saka and have the option to replace him with Sterling, or do you think he’d prefer to have Messi, and not replace him? You seem to have chosen some very selective criteria and used them as a reason as to why Southgate should have won trophies.

[Vino blanco]

I would get rid of Southgate and put Brendan McCullem and Ben Stokes in charge. They believe they are winners, not gallant also-rans.

[Swizzlestick]

Yes, in ******* cricket, one of the most ridiculous sports in existence. Get the tiddlywinks coaching staff in while we're at it.

[Spijed]

First interview since deciding to stay:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64397469

[fatboy47]

Everton fans breathe communal sigh of relief.

[tiger76]

First interview since deciding to stay:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64397469

Honest as ever by Southgate, however what concerns me is he still insists he wouldn't change his tactics in the France game.

Yes England have massively improved during his reign, but the nagging doubts remain over whether he's got that ruthless mentality that wins tournaments.

Sounds like the Euro's will be his last tournament for England anyway, so the FA at least have time to properly consider his successor.

[Jakubclaret]

As long as the team keeps on improving I don't have a problem with the bloke he gets my backing, it's not as if before he took the reins we were some sort of world beaters as it stands we are a decent side & slowly but surely getting better. Some people have completely unrealistic expectations almost delusional about our national side what we are capable of which isn't a lot but more with him stopping on.

[equinox]

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