Weghorst to… Man United?

[Claret Toni]

Does anyone know if we got a fee for WW's appearance at the World Cup.

I recall reading that FIFA would pay $10,000 per day and each club with whom the player was registered in the 2 years prior to the tournament would receive a share.

[Paul Waine]

Does anyone know if we got a fee for WW's appearance at the World Cup.

I recall reading that FIFA would pay $10,000 per day and each club with whom the player was registered in the 2 years prior to the tournament would receive a share.

If we understand the rules accurately, Burnley should have received about 25% (6 months) for every day that Wout Weghorst and Netherlands were in the world cup. Let's say 20 days at $2,500/day would bring in $50,000. I doubt Burnley would also have received payment for the time WW was on loan at Besiktas, that payment would have gone to them.

[Lowbankclaret]

I cannot get why fans are so obsessed with this.

He absolutely didn’t want to play for us in the championship, his life, he can do what he wants.

Went out on loan, has done ok. Went to the WC, did ok.

If he goes to Man Utd, we will be getting a better deal, giving VK more money flexibility.

If he does well, we win, we will get a good fee.

If he is pants, we lose as his value will nose dive.

But let’s focus on our players that are here and want to be.

[dsr]

I'm still at a loss to understand how any club other than Burnley FC can trade our player.

Besiktas aren't trading Weghorst at all.

If this happens, it consists of two parts. One, Besiktas agree to cancel the loan deal. Two, Burnley agree to lend Weghorst to Man U. Man U, I suspect and assume, are paying twice over, once to persuade Besiktas to cancel the loan contract, and once for a loan fee.

[Big Vinny K]

You don’t care yet you are happy to spread a lie about someone? A lie deliberately made up to damage someone’s reputation. There aren’t two sides, you are deliberately misleading ( I’ll won’t call you a malicious liar, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt) to support your agenda for whatever reason.

WTAF ?
Are you being deliberately stupid and antagonistic ?
The 2 viewpoints are in reference to those fans who like him and those that don’t.
I have zero agenda against Weghorst.

I have no clue what you are talking about but would appreciate it now if you back off and stop trying to make a big thing about this.

[Clive 1960]

I cannot get why fans are so obsessed with this.

He absolutely didn’t want to play for us in the championship, his life, he can do what he wants.

Went out on loan, has done ok. Went to the WC, did ok.

If he goes to Man Utd, we will be getting a better deal, giving VK more money flexibility.

If he does well, we win, we will get a good fee.

If he is pants, we lose as his value will nose dive.

But let’s focus on our players that are here and want to be.

Exactly mate

[Damo]

The championship is a top division compared to the Dutch league !!

He got brought off against Watford and then was sat there reading the programme when the rest of the team were celebrating us scoring in what was a massive game. I can see why that could have caused some fans to question his attitude. Put this together with his comments after we got relegated and the speed he left and you can see why he may not be to some fans liking.

Personally I don’t know how much of this is true - none of us do really - but I can see both sides.
What you cannot doubt though is that irrespective of whether he has done or said some things which are misplaced or could have at least been dealt with better that if an opportunity like joining United comes up playing for a manager who he is familiar with then I doubt any player would not try his very best to make the deal happen. Beskitas always feels like a club that players go to for a few months to get their career back on track - they seem to be happy to cover short term decent wages. I doubt Weghorst came to the Premier League thinking he would end up in Turkey so would jump at the chance of getting back here but for it to be United who are looking at him must be his wildest dreams come true.

How is the championship a top division compared to the Dutch league?
Bit of an odd post all in all

[Taffy on the wing]

........is this the right room for an argument?

[dougcollins]

........is this the right room for an argument?

No.

[FulledgeClaret]

How i see it is Besiktas paid us for a season loan, Utd have paid Besiktas to take over the last half of that loan we probably dont get anything from Utd or if we do it will be minimal, we are not out of pocket as we have had the loan fee from Besiktas and our asset is now in a bigger shop window and if he performs either Utd or another big spender might want him in the summer for the 12m or more he cost us. Its nothing but Win win for us. I'm half expecting Besiktas to come in with a derisory offer for him in the summer but doubt he will want to go back there after playing for Utd. come on Wout bag a hat full.

[arise_sir_charge]

Not sure his value will plummet if he bombs, having Man United in his CV will arouse the interest of those who may previously not have taken much notice.

[Ric_C]

Don't know about anyone else, but Wout mouthing "Bye Bye" with his love heart celebration to the Besiktas fans, fully knowing he would be off despite only being halfway through his agreed year contract, made me throw up in my mouth a little.

[beeholeclaret]

How i see it is Besiktas paid us for a season loan, Utd have paid Besiktas to take over the last half of that loan we probably dont get anything from Utd or if we do it will be minimal, we are not out of pocket as we have had the loan fee from Besiktas and our asset is now in a bigger shop window and if he performs either Utd or another big spender might want him in the summer for the 12m or more he cost us. Its nothing but Win win for us. I'm half expecting Besiktas to come in with a derisory offer for him in the summer but doubt he will want to go back there after playing for Utd. come on Wout bag a hat full.

I can’t imagine Besiktas will want him back next season if he has “done them over” with this deal for United. Most of their recent words of protest will be in order to wring the maximum cash out of this deal. They like us will want to protect their own investment (even though he is not really their player).

[MancunianClaret]

Don't know about anyone else, but Wout mouthing "Bye Bye" with his love heart celebration to the Besiktas fans, fully knowing he would be off despite only being halfway through his agreed year contract, made me throw up in my mouth a little.

Felt somewhat unprofessional but clearly designed to heap pressure on Besiktas to let him go - and it worked.

[agreenwood]

As much as I see this whole saga as a bit bizarre and I’m not fully clear what we gain from embroiling ourselves in the negotiations on Weghorst and Man U’s behalf, I do think some of the negativity towards him is wilfully ignoring understandable human ambition.

He left us so he could take his chance to play in what will probably be his one and only World Cup. He now wants to end his loan in Turkey early because he’s been made aware that Manchester United want him.

You can take issue with the fact that he’s been more up front than most in pursuing opportunities, but he’s simply trying to make the most of his career.

[Fretters]

I’m not fully clear what we gain from embroiling ourselves in the negotiations on Weghorst and Man U’s behalf

Based on his record in decent footballing sides, there's every chance he'll be a hit at United and they want to buy him in the summer for much more than Besiktas would have.

[It Is What It Is]

If Weghorst gets Man Utd on his CV....his stock would definitely go up whether he is good or bad, so we should hopefully make a few quid on him.

[AshevilleNCClaret]

As much as I see this whole saga as a bit bizarre and I’m not fully clear what we gain from embroiling ourselves in the negotiations on Weghorst and Man U’s behalf, I do think some of the negativity towards him is wilfully ignoring understandable human ambition.

He left us so he could take his chance to play in what will probably be his one and only World Cup. He now wants to end his loan in Turkey early because he’s been made aware that Manchester United want him.

You can take issue with the fact that he’s been more up front than most in pursuing opportunities, but he’s simply trying to make the most of his career.

Agreed. If Man U call, what player (except maybe the handful of world class players) wouldn't want to go?

Burnley have nothing to lose in this, and they are not holding up the deal. Besiktas are looking foolish in this whole thing,and honestly, i think they will need to get rid of him, rather than have an unhappy player for the rest of the season.

[Notsosuperstevedavis]

No one can gripe about people having ambition.
I think most of us get that.

The issue is, that they are at the pinnacle of their profression and as such maybe fans ask that their ambition behave a little more professionally.

You didnt hear Dwight and Pope making his goodbye gestures to the crowd six months before the end of the season.
Their was a dignity and class to how they went about getting their moves done.

For me, I’d anticipate thats where most take umbridge with WW.

This is the second club in one season he’s stamped his feet and demanded he gets his own way.

Tarks didnt get his own way. We didnt sell him.
He gave us his every effort till full time.

There’s the difference.

[boatshed bill]

I wonder what would have happened if we had said to Man Utd "if you want him you'll have to buy him, and compensate Besiktas"?

[Paul Waine]

No one can gripe about people having ambition.
I think most of us get that.

The issue is, that they are at the pinnacle of their profression and as such maybe fans ask that their ambition behave a little more professionally.

For me, I’d anticipate thats where most take umbridge with WW.

This is the second club in one season he’s stamped his feet and demanded he gets his own way.

There’s the difference.

Wout Weghorst was approached by Burnley in Jan 2022 (after agreement with his then club) and asked him to join Burnley when Burnley were in one of the relegation spots and amongst the favourites to be relegated from the Premier League. Wout Weghorst also had ambitions to play for Netherlands in the World Cup and knew the national coach had said that he wouldn't pick any players who weren't playing in the top division in the country they played in. So, Wout Weghorst's contract with Burnley was written such that if Burnley were to be relegated Wout Weghorst would go out on loan to another club in a top division - and that is the basis that Wout Weghorst signed for Burnley. I don't see any "stamping of feet" in those actions.

I guess - it can only be a guess - that Wout Weghorst's contract didn't include a relegation clause that reduced his wage effective summer 2022 if Burnley were relegated. There was no need as his contract said he would go out on loan for the season. Perhaps his contract does say that if Burnley weren't promoted in 2022/23 season then a relegation clause would kick-in in summer 2023. It doesn't look like this clause will come into effect should Burnley return to Premier League.

I don't take any umbrage with Wout Weghorst. I don't understand why any Burnley fan does. I wish him every success at Manchester United. Who knew that last January we were signing a player that 12 months later would be going on loan to ManU?

UTC

[Duffer_]

So, Wout Weghorst's contract with Burnley was written such that if Burnley were to be relegated Wout Weghorst would go out on loan to another club in a top division - and that is the basis that Wout Weghorst signed for Burnley. I don't see any "stamping of feet" in those actions.

Except Paul, it wasn't written in the contract according to The Athletic and other outlets, it was a verbal agreement. I believe, for reasons that I have previously posted so won't bore you with them again, that it was a failure to not stipulate the terms of the subsequent loan on relegation in his written contract with Burnley.

[martin_p]

Except Paul, it wasn't written in the contract according to The Athletic and other outlets, it was a verbal agreement. I believe, for reasons that I have previously posted so won't bore you with them again, that it was a failure to not stipulate the terms of the subsequent loan on relegation in his written contract with Burnley.

Still, a verbal agreement still means his position was clear when we signed him so he can’t really be accused of ‘stamping his feet’.

[Duffer_]

Still, a verbal agreement still means his position was clear when we signed him so he can’t really be accused of ‘stamping his feet’.

Agreed.

[Paul Waine]

Except Paul, it wasn't written in the contract according to The Athletic and other outlets, it was a verbal agreement. I believe, for reasons that I have previously posted so won't bore you with them again, that it was a failure to not stipulate the terms of the subsequent loan on relegation in his written contract with Burnley.

I'd be surprised if any footballer is allowed to sign a contract without every single term being written down. All the governing bodies, Premier League, FA, EFL are very strict on these things, not least to ensure that all contractual payment conditions are properly honoured - and no club Chairman can claim they had other performance bonuses, for example, that were verbally agreed...

A loan agreement for a player is an agreement between two clubs, in this case Burnley and Besiktas. It would be extremely difficult for Burnley and Wout Weghorst to agree terms of his loan agreement with Besiktas when WW's original contract was agreed with Burnley - the club that he was going on loan to wouldn't be known.

[1882Clarets1882]

Gordon Mcqueen on signing for Man utd from Leeds got dogs abuse from the Leeds fans.

"99% of players want to play for Man Utd. The 1% are liars"

[Duffer_]

I'd be surprised if any footballer is allowed to sign a contract without every single term being written down.

Seems this did not stop AP entering into a "gentleman's agreement" with WW. Or at least that's how it was widely reported...

The Athletic:
"With the World Cup on the horizon, Weghorst had verbally agreed with the club when he joined that he would be allowed to leave this summer if Burnley did not avoid the drop so he was always expected to depart."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theathleti ... e/%3famp=1

Lancs Live:
"The Netherlands international, whose main objective is to secure a spot in the World Cup squad this winter, said that was the driving force behind his decision to depart and that he certainly does not feel the Championship is beneath him. Weghorst and Clarets chairman Alan Pace discussed the scenario prior to him joining Burnley in January and there was a verbal agreement that he could leave on loan should the Clarets be relegated."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lancs. ... 400608.amp

[Duffer_]

A loan agreement for a player is an agreement between two clubs, in this case Burnley and Besiktas. It would be extremely difficult for Burnley and Wout Weghorst to agree terms of his loan agreement with Besiktas when WW's original contract was agreed with Burnley - the club that he was going on loan to wouldn't be known.

Sure, but that's not what I was saying or would have expected to happen. If AP wanted to give WW assurances that he would be allowed to go out on loan if we were relegated, then I don't understand why those assurances were not written into the contract. I wouldn't have expected Besiktas to have been named in the contract but, perhaps, wording such as:

'Should BFC be relegated, WW will be allowed to join a club in the major leagues of Europe, providing:

1) his wages are paid in full by that club;
2) there is a recall option available to BFC: and
3) there is an obligation to purchase WW at €xm.'

You get the gist.

[tarkys_ears]

Verbal agreement? In todays day and age??

Don't believe that for one second.

[Paul Waine]

Sure, but that's not what I was saying or would have expected to happen. If AP wanted to give WW assurances that he would be allowed to go out on loan if we were relegated, then I don't understand why those assurances were not written into the contract. I wouldn't have expected Besiktas to have been named in the contract but, perhaps, wording such as:

'Should BFC be relegated, WW will be allowed to join a club in the major leagues of Europe, providing:

1) his wages are paid in full by that club;
2) there is a recall option available to BFC: and
3) there is an obligation to purchase WW at €xm.'

You get the gist.

I get what you are saying. I doubt any of your (1), (2) and (3) would be written into a player's contract. All 3 points are things that could only be agreed with a club on the other side of the loan. Paying wages in full or not paying any wages and paying a loan fee to the parent club can only be agreed between the two clubs. Similarly, mid-season recall may or may not be agreed between the two clubs involved. Ditto obligation to buy (or option to buy) can only be agreed between the clubs.

No one seems to consider the possibility that half way through the season the player gets a better offer, as in this situation.

Media reports indicate that ManU have agreed to pay a fee to Besiktas of upwards of £2 million, £2.5 million or Euro 3 million. There's no mention of ManU making any payment to Burnley. There's no mention of how much of WW's wages were being paid by Besiktas and no mention of the fee that Besiktas have paid Burnley for the loan. Maybe more information will emerge at some point. (Do ManU still ahve to post details of transfers in public domain because their shares are publicly listed)? Whatever money is changing hands I consider it a good deal for Burnley as well as a good deal for Wout Weghorst.

[clarethomer]

I'd be surprised if any footballer is allowed to sign a contract without every single term being written down. All the governing bodies, Premier League, FA, EFL are very strict on these things, not least to ensure that all contractual payment conditions are properly honoured - and no club Chairman can claim they had other performance bonuses, for example, that were verbally agreed...

A loan agreement for a player is an agreement between two clubs, in this case Burnley and Besiktas. It would be extremely difficult for Burnley and Wout Weghorst to agree terms of his loan agreement with Besiktas when WW's original contract was agreed with Burnley - the club that he was going on loan to wouldn't be known.

Agree with all of the above.

Could it be that a standard and approved contract was signed. In the contract it would state that upon relegation to a lower division, the pay would reduce in line. So for example a reduction of 50% for championship.

WW and his agent have said to AP - we don't expect WW to be in the club if you go down next year as he has been told that his WC place is dependent playing at the top league.

Im not sure it would have been possible to cover off all the scenarios that could happen from there. So could it have been as simple as they didn't put the relegation clause into his contract? Perhaps they said that this remained 100% on the basis that this would incentivise the club to get him off the wage bill?

Perhaps the verbal agreement was actually more risk to the club than the player?

[Duffer_]

I get what you are saying. I doubt any of your (1), (2) and (3) would be written into a player's contract. All 3 points are things that could only be agreed with a club on the other side of the loan. Paying wages in full or not paying any wages and paying a loan fee to the parent club can only be agreed between the two clubs. Similarly, mid-season recall may or may not be agreed between the two clubs involved. Ditto obligation to buy (or option to buy) can only be agreed between the clubs.

I won't bang on about this because I think clarethomer is probably on the money. Just to say, how are release clauses written? They also require an unspecified third party to satisy criteria set by the club holding the registration, typically payment of a transfer fee in excess of £×m. As always, appreciate the convo Paul.

[IanMcL]

I would hope Besiktas get a 'free loan' and Burnley have a zero cost player on the books. Until next season, when the next write down in value takes place. Then, with luck there is a profit to be made.

[No Ney Never]

If ever I'm in court, I won't bother with a lawyer, I'll employ a number of UTC posters. The judges head will be so mashed they will simply surrender and dismiss the case.

[CaptJohn]

Breaking news in Mail on-line: WW left out of Besiktas squad for weekend fixture and is flying to UK to sign with Utd.

[Lancasterclaret]

If ever I'm in court, I won't bother with a lawyer, I'll employ a number of UTC posters. The judges head will be so mashed they will simply surrender and dismiss the case.

Ideally he's throw a lot of them into prison for contempt of court

[HiThere]

I'll be pleased when this is over regardless of where he ends up.

[FeedTheArf]

I'll be pleased when this is over regardless of where he ends up.

Romano has given it the “here we go” so I’d expect it to be announced in time for him to feature at the weekend.

[HiThere]

Romano has given it the “here we go” so I’d expect it to be announced in time for him to feature at the weekend.

I guess Burnley will be mentioned even more now on Sky - every time Man U play.

[jedi_master]

Hopefully he scores a hat-trick a game and we somehow have a £25m striker this summer with a host of top clubs after his signature.

[Elizabeth]

Cant wait to see what Man Utd can get out of Weghorst.
Of course the biggest focus is on what financial benefits it brings us.

[Lancasterclaret]

Dream move for him

Hope it goes well

[Swizzlestick]

Confirmed United have agreed to pay £2.5m to Besiktas. Player on his way. Not sure what United’s terms with us are.

[eastcoastclaret]

I think he will be a top player for United. Be very interesting to see what happens at the end of the season.

[Lancasterclaret]

Confirmed United have agreed to pay £2.5m to Besiktas. Player on his way. Not sure what United’s terms with us are.

Lancs Live suggested we'd get a loan fee, and his wages are being paid

Win/win for us really

Much bigger profile for him, and he clearly is signed to fit Uniteds style

[Clarets4me]

Cant wait to see what Man Utd can get out of Weghorst.
Of course the biggest focus is on what financial benefits it brings us.

Quite, seeing as we have no " skin " in the Premier League game this season, I hope he averages a goal a game, his shirt becomes a best-seller, the fans cheer him to the echo as he scores the winner in the FA Cup final. On the last day, he's carried shoulder high from the field with supporters chanting " For he's jolly good fellow ", as a final game hat-trick propels United into, at the very least, a Champions League spot ...

Richard Arnold ( Utd's Chief Exec ) - " Hello Alan, your chap did great for us, we'd like to sign him permanently .. "
Alan Pace - " So glad you're pleased, now about the fee ... "

[MancunianClaret]

Lancs Live suggested we'd get a loan fee, and his wages are being paid

Which article was this? Can't seem to find it

[ClaretPete001]

Cant wait to see what Man Utd can get out of Weghorst.
Of course the biggest focus is on what financial benefits it brings us.

They'll get what we saw.. A player that can sit deep and link play and arrive late in the box. Ironically his best assist was against Man Utd.

Not very effective in a 4-4-2 with a deep press but I would guess quite useful in a counter attacking side with world class players and lots of pace running from deep as demonstrated by Marcus Rashford against us. He'd probably work quite well in the current Burnley side.

So, a win win for us but I guess the churlish might ponder why a second club has decided to let go a 1 goal in 2 games centre forward in January. He has scored a third of Besiktas' goals this season so he is a big loss for them...

[Swizzlestick]

I think if it was of a club of a lower standing than United, Besiktas would've done all they could to keep him. The fact it was United probably meant Besiktas were snookered as it seems clear that WW was desperate to join, understandably - kissing goodbye before terms had even been agreed etc. No point digging your heels in and forcing an unhappy player to stay.

[martin_p]

They'll get what we saw.. A player that can sit deep and link play and arrive late in the box. Ironically his best assist was against Man Utd.

Not very effective in a 4-4-2 with a deep press but I would guess quite useful in a counter attacking side with world class players and lots of pace running from deep as demonstrated by Marcus Rashford against us. He'd probably work quite well in the current Burnley side.

So, a win win for us but I guess the churlish might ponder why a second club has decided to let go a 1 goal in 2 games centre forward in January. He has scored a third of Besiktas' goals this season so he is a big loss for them...

I don’t think it’s a case of them deciding to let him go, it’s him deciding he’s going.