Of those who left, who would you have back NOW?

[Colburn_Claret]

Key bit of my post was in brackets. We'd have more of a keeper than a third centre half with a goalkeepers shirt on but with Ekdal and Beyer we would still be pinging it all over the place.

As for City - Pep decided to ditch an out of form Hart a year before they signed Ederson, who was possibly better with both his hands and his feet at the time.

I just disagree. Don't take my word for it, just listen to Corberan.
The reason West Brom couldn't press us the way we wanted to, is because of Muric. In a game of keep ball it is like playing with an extra man. If we had played Nick in that game, the advantage would be gone, and the outcome could have been very different. Despite his flaws he really is essential to how we play. Yes it will be harder next season, but the whole team including Muric are getting better and better with every passing week. Who's to say that we have finished improving yet. VK certainly doesn't think so, he emphasises it after every game. Come next season the current squad will be even better at playing this game, and we will surely invest in a couple more players on promotion.
A long way to go, but nothing to be frightened of.

[claretcarrot93]

I just disagree. Don't take my word for it, just listen to Corberan.
The reason West Brom couldn't press us the way we wanted to, is because of Muric. In a game of keep ball it is like playing with an extra man. If we had played Nick in that game, the advantage would be gone, and the outcome could have been very different. Despite his flaws he really is essential to how we play. Yes it will be harder next season, but the whole team including Muric are getting better and better with every passing week. Who's to say that we have finished improving yet. VK certainly doesn't think so, he emphasises it after every game. Come next season the current squad will be even better at playing this game, and we will surely invest in a couple more players on promotion.
A long way to go, but nothing to be frightened of.

Exactly that, I don't get how far into the season we are and people still don't realise how important Muric is with that distribution that beats the press.

[HiThere]

https://twitter.com/footballhotwire/sta ... 0JUBQ&s=19

Warning: Play it on mute, the 'music' is bloody horrendous.

[houseboy]

I kept a close eye on Muric on Saturday and he is so much better at what we do now than Pope would be. Pope is a great goalkeeper and we needed him in Dyche football where we let the opposition come at us. But now Muric spends half his time in defensive midfield waiting for back passes if needed and his distribution when he has the ball is astonishing. We have 11 outfield players now with a bloke who runs back to keep goal if the opposition get the ball. Only thing I don’t get is why opposition teams don’t put a man on Muric when he’s out of his area. That would at least prevent the back passes even if he was judged offside a few times. Any way the way we play now unfortunately Pope would be a disaster.
And why was Vydra not mentioned in the OP? I think he would flourish in this set up.

[spt_claret]

Fascinating to me how many people are adamant that proven quality players simply couldn't be accommodated due to "our system" when one of the criticisms of Dyche, one which did have some merit, was his reluctance or difficulty in straying away from his usual system.

There is no perfect system, there's also very little truly new in football. Systems, formations and styles go in and out of vogue and every system can be beaten or found out. It's how we punched above our weight in the Prem for so long against big clubs, it's also part of what caused us to run out of momentum. Really do get the sense of almost a jilted ex syndrome or hubris from some sections of the fans, this isn't to say our current team isn't doing fantastically but that there is a huge difference between one fantastic Championship season and consistent Premier League or international level performance. Such players are always assets.

You'd be absolutely mad to not take Pope back regardless of this system talk. Muric has developed from his early scary decisions into a fantastic ball player but his pure goalkeeping is still to be tested and will be tested much more next season, it's delusional to think we can maintain 60-80% possession nearly every game or that we won't be exposed or forced into more errors. Pope would be an asset to any team.

Likewise I'd leap at Mee. You only need to look at statistical data to see that he has been in the past a much better ball player than credited for. Slot him alongside Beyer and you'd be laughing.

Cornet would fit like a dream but only if he could stay fit, only reason I'd be hesitant.

McNeil could do Gudmundssons role, very similar profile.

Collins would be like for like, yes he's had wobbles in the Prem but our current CB crop have never even been tested yet it's incomparable. He was damn good at this level while younger than our current crop.

Weghorst- you simply don't do what he did in Germany or for the Netherlands, or get a Man U move if you're a donkey. Barnes' renaissance is admirable but Weghorst can and would do all of what he does better, look at some of his pressing last season for evidence of how he can link and play fluidly. The strange bitterness towards a Dutchman being a typically frank Dutchman needs to end, I'd leap to have him back.

Tarkowski is the only one I'm inclined to share doubts on- his ball playing is adequate but was often overrated and I always felt he was protected by Mee. Much like Keane.

[RVclaret]

Likewise I'd leap at Mee. You only need to look at statistical data to see that he has been in the past a much better ball player than credited for. Slot him alongside Beyer and you'd be laughing.

Which stats are these?

Currently he is ranking (vs other PL cb’s) in the

- 5th percentile for pass completion %
- 15th percentile for progressive passes per 90
- 12th percentile for progressive carries per 90
- 36th percentile for successful take ons

This suggests, like many others have suggested, he would not be suited to a VK system, where all the above metrics need to be high for a cb, he is currently scoring very low. We can call Mee lots of great things, which he absolutely is, ball player he is not.

As a comparison, THB is in the 98th percentile for progressive passes, while Beyer is in the 82nd percentile for progressive carries, 98th for pass completion % and 97th for successful take ons.

All data from Fbref.

[equinox]

We obviously haven't needed any of them but the one game or half a game when we could have done with either Mee or Tarkowski was against Sheffield United, either of those two would have sorted McBurnie out, he bullied are centre halves in that second half.

[Goody1975]

Pope (31)
Tarks (30)
Mee (33)
Collins (22)
McNeil (23)
Cornet (26)
Wood (31)
Weghorst (31)

(**) Age at start of next season.

What is the criteria here? How do we resign them, is it for the money they left for? What is the contract length and wages?

Like many have said above there aren't any of them that I'd resign, I've not thought this season about if we just had player x in this side. A lot of these players were signed for relatively small amounts of money and became the players they are now, we have a squad full of that potential.

Ameen Al-Dakhil looks an amazing prospect to me, he is still only 20 and is going to be a real asset for us.

[123EasyasBFC]

Cornet would be great as a 9, Ben mee shown he could do it in a ball playing team, I do think Nathan Collins could of been an animal with kompany coaching him and Beyer next to him

Not to slander McNeil but don’t see how anyone thinks he gets anywhere near this side, too one footed and slow to play this system on current form, the McNeil that broke through the team back in 18/19 would be ideal for this team

[Cooclaret]

Pope, Tarks, Mee, Collins, McNeil, Cornet, Wood, Weghorst.
Right now, in this current team, who would you want back in the first XI ?

Weghorst; he’s a pressing machine and he’s very creative, it’s looking like he’s best deployed as a 10 not a 9.

[spt_claret]

Which stats are these?

Currently he is ranking (vs other PL cb’s) in the

- 5th percentile for pass completion %
- 15th percentile for progressive passes per 90
- 12th percentile for progressive carries per 90
- 36th percentile for successful take ons

This suggests, like many others have suggested, he would not be suited to a VK system, where all the above metrics need to be high for a cb, he is currently scoring very low. We can call Mee lots of great things, which he absolutely is, ball player he is not.

As a comparison, THB is in the 98th percentile for progressive passes, while Beyer is in the 82nd percentile for progressive carries, 98th for pass completion % and 97th for successful take ons.

All data from Fbref.

Firstly look at previous seasons and also heatmaps.
He actually would often play further forward than Tarkowski.
Secondly I wasn't saying he's a better ball player than Beyer or Bellis (whose stats are again at a level lower) just that he's good enough at it. Also frankly his defensive qualities are invaluable and as I already said you can't fixate on a single style or system especially if you're not in a position to afford the best in the league by far at it. There's games next season we will struggle more at with this style than a more reserved or counter attacking one, just as there's games we will likely do better at.
He's proven age 33 at Brentford that the idea he was only good by being protected by Dyche and his system was a myth. Staggers me that people wouldn't want him or Pope back.

[equinox]

Pope (31)
Tarks (30)
Mee (33)
Collins (22)
McNeil (23)
Cornet (26)
Wood (31)
Weghorst (31)

(**) Age at start of next season.

What is the criteria here? How do we resign them, is it for the money they left for? What is the contract length and wages?

Like many have said above there aren't any of them that I'd resign, I've not thought this season about if we just had player x in this side. A lot of these players were signed for relatively small amounts of money and became the players they are now, we have a squad full of that potential.

Ameen Al-Dakhil looks an amazing prospect to me, he is still only 20 and is going to be a real asset for us.

It's just a bit of fun, I think it's safe to say that if you suggest a player on this thread that you'd like to see in our current side we won't resign them tomorrow, apart from anything else the transfer window has closed.

[HiThere]

Fascinating to me how many people are adamant that proven quality players simply couldn't be accommodated due to "our system" when one of the criticisms of Dyche, one which did have some merit, was his reluctance or difficulty in straying away from his usual system.

There is no perfect system, there's also very little truly new in football. Systems, formations and styles go in and out of vogue and every system can be beaten or found out. It's how we punched above our weight in the Prem for so long against big clubs, it's also part of what caused us to run out of momentum. Really do get the sense of almost a jilted ex syndrome or hubris from some sections of the fans, this isn't to say our current team isn't doing fantastically but that there is a huge difference between one fantastic Championship season and consistent Premier League or international level performance. Such players are always assets.

You'd be absolutely mad to not take Pope back regardless of this system talk. Muric has developed from his early scary decisions into a fantastic ball player but his pure goalkeeping is still to be tested and will be tested much more next season, it's delusional to think we can maintain 60-80% possession nearly every game or that we won't be exposed or forced into more errors. Pope would be an asset to any team.

Likewise I'd leap at Mee. You only need to look at statistical data to see that he has been in the past a much better ball player than credited for. Slot him alongside Beyer and you'd be laughing.

Cornet would fit like a dream but only if he could stay fit, only reason I'd be hesitant.

McNeil could do Gudmundssons role, very similar profile.

Collins would be like for like, yes he's had wobbles in the Prem but our current CB crop have never even been tested yet it's incomparable. He was damn good at this level while younger than our current crop.

Weghorst- you simply don't do what he did in Germany or for the Netherlands, or get a Man U move if you're a donkey. Barnes' renaissance is admirable but Weghorst can and would do all of what he does better, look at some of his pressing last season for evidence of how he can link and play fluidly. The strange bitterness towards a Dutchman being a typically frank Dutchman needs to end, I'd leap to have him back.

Tarkowski is the only one I'm inclined to share doubts on- his ball playing is adequate but was often overrated and I always felt he was protected by Mee. Much like Keane.

Bits I agree with. Bits I don't. We've had to put up with a certain poster trying to drum 'framework' down our necks which is complete and utter rubbish. A good manager can change formation depending on the opposition.
I don't agree with your point on Ben Mee. I watch him for Brentford and he's not a ball player.
Ironically, you have doubts on Tarkowski who is a better ball player than Mee. He would suit our play better than Mee.

[SouthLondonexile]

A fit Cornet and Ben Mee.

[boatshed bill]

Funny isn't it?
Who would you have back NOW... that means now, not any projection of what may happen next season.So right now I prefer what we have to what we have had.
Frankly I'm surprised that people are so sure that our most recent PL defenders would fare better than our new young ones this season in our new system.

[wbfc]

Pope is a different class to Modric and Tarkowski is better than any of the guys we have now despite their potential...

Mee has played well this season but too old...

McNeil and Cornet no thank you ..

Wood and Weghorst ...would like better than them and better than what we have now...

[LDNBFC87]

You worry too much. If anything, he's the one player you should have confidence in.

Not sure I do worry too much tbh

[Milltown1882]

Pope is a different class to Modric and Tarkowski is better than any of the guys we have now despite their potential...

Mee has played well this season but too old...

McNeil and Cornet no thank you ..

Wood and Weghorst ...would like better than them and better than what we have now...

Can we bring Modric back? He’s a great player.

[NZclaret]

All the people who said they wouldn’t have Pope surely can’t truely believe that after today (and other suspect performances). This team is insane but Pope would walk into most prem sides let alone ours.

I’d take tarks OR mee back as well just to sure up the defence a little as well for at least the first season in the prem.

[MACCA]

Pope
Collins

[Vincent'sCap]

Trevor Steven
Adrian Randall

& Kevin Russell

[IanMcL]

All those fans who left early, anyone?