Transfer embargo

[clarethomer]

Yes fully aware of that, but I also know clubs and agents set up a close dialogue and moves can be approved in principle well before the window opens. I would be surprised if this had not already happened in the case of Maatsen, Tella and Beyer

I'm not trying to underplay the situation as clearly there is a process that hasn't been followed but you would imagine that this will all be sorted well ahead of any transfer business being able to be completed.

There is nothing in the rules of the embargo that says we can't communicate with agents etc. Providing when we look to sign them we are not embargoed this is likely to have no impact on this.

[ecc]

Best wait to see exactly what the EFL says, no?

[NewClaret]

What is 16.10.2?

[Nonayforever]

Just wondering what would happen if the new auditors don't sign off the accounts

[clarethomer]

Ok. Let's just break this down.

We have been placed under a transfer embargo which means the EFL has found us guilty of "misconduct" - that is the language the EFL uses in their regulations.

According to EFL rules in this situation, as well as getting our house in order, the EFL can ask us to do certain things - such as:

"The Club shall at The League’s request submit such further documentary evidence as The League shall require (including but not limited to Future Financial Information). The League shall have the power (but not the obligation) to commission an external audit for purposes of assisting in its assessment under 16.10.2."

So our misconduct means that we could now be subject to an external audit by the EFL.

But it's fine, nothing to see here.

So you understand that this will be dealt with by the EFL and they will exercise the powers that they feel necessary to make sure we are all OK beforw we can have the embargo removed?

Where do lawyers and other clubs now come into this - thats the bit where your imagination is getting the better of you.

[NewClaret]

Just wondering what would happen if the new auditors don't sign off the accounts

We’ll change auditors again

[claret2018]

Just wondering what would happen if the new auditors don't sign off the accounts

They wouldn’t accept the job if they thought there was a risk of this happening.

[Big Vinny K]

So the club are telling lies?

About what ?

[Nonayforever]

They wouldn’t accept the job if they thought there was a risk of this happening.

Depends on what they are being told.

[forzagranata]

So you understand that this will be dealt with by the EFL and they will exercise the powers that they feel necessary to make sure we are all OK beforw we can have the embargo removed?

Where do lawyers and other clubs now come into this - thats the bit where your imagination is getting the better of you.

We are in a competition with a 100+ million prize and we have been found guilty of misconduct for being late with financial statements.

Why on earth wouldn't lawyers for rival clubs be paying attention to this?

[bf2k]

Is this likely to affect the club’s ability to borrow then?

Not 100% sure tbh as I’m not in finance (I spend the money ). If this is just an EFL deadline, (isn’t HMRC’s deadline end of March?), I’d speculate not.

[NottsClaret]

Just one other point on this, people suggesting it taints the season etc,….does anyone look back at 2009 and think “it was good but that transfer embargo took the shine off”.
I don’t.

I didn't even know about that until about a year later. Two of our most recent four promotions will have seen us under a transfer embargo. It's clearly the way to go.

[Nori1958]

About what ?

That alls ok

[RVclaret]

I didn't even know about that until about a year later. Two of our most recent four promotions will have seen us under a transfer embargo. It's clearly the way to go.

Yes the EFL only started making them public knowledge in 2019 I think

[arise_sir_charge]

We are in a competition with a 100+ million prize and we have been found guilty of misconduct for being late with financial statements.

Why on earth wouldn't lawyers for rival clubs be paying attention to this?

Because the rules that the clubs sign up to have been applied!

What is there for a lawyer to look at?

[clarethomer]

We are in a competition with a 100+ million prize and we have been found guilty of misconduct for being late with financial statements.

Why on earth wouldn't lawyers for rival clubs be paying attention to this?

And what is the penalty for that misconduct.

Under what basis would a lawyer have to make a claim against us for?

There are 2 outcomes that can come from this.

1 - We provide audited accounts and the EFL will be satisfied and lift the embargo.
2 - We provide audited accounts and the EFL are not satisfied
3 - We fail to provide audited accounts.

2 and 3 would likely result in the EFL sending external auditors in most likely.

There is nothing in the misconduct that states we have done anything to cause harm to other clubs or anyone else so the fact that you believe there are lawyers and clubs out there getting all excited about this is just pure fantasy.

[Big Vinny K]

That alls ok

They have said they think it’s all ok with the content of their accounts.
They haven’t said it’s ok that they have filed their accounts late.

I never said anything about what’s in the accounts other than I am pretty definite there’s been no breach of any fair play rules.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

To put it simply, it’s a big enough deal that the club have felt that they need to release a statement about it.

Fans want club to improve their communication, in this instance the club has done that.
The news is out there for people to see, so the club released the statement.

Is it such a shock to your system that they've been open about it?

[Vegas Claret]

Until it gets resolved we can't sign anyone, even free agents. So hopefully it gets resolved before the transfer window opens.

the club has said it will be resolved next month so unless folk are picking and choosing what they want to believe then surely we take the clubs statement as factual at this point

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Best wait to see exactly what the EFL says, no?

Nah, that spoils the fun

[Chester Perry]

If you change your auditors as a tactical way of moving the club forward, you do it after one set of accounts has been signed off but before the next year end. Not 5 months later. The most likely reason for changing so late is because you've fallen out with the old auditors.

Why would they fall out? Here's my guess. We all know that the club is owed ££150m or so from a holding company that has no cash. Perhaps the existing auditors refused to sign the accounts on the basis that the loan is a potential bad debt and should have its value written down?

I don't have an issue in switching auditors between reporting years - it could even be considered good practise to do so every 3-5 years. It is in the fans and the games interest for clubs and auditors not to be in too cosy a relationship.

It is actually more interesting that the club haven't named who the new auditors are, they claim they have new ones, when were they appointed? I have seen other clubs declare the appointment of new auditors (West Brom immediately springs to mind) it would give the club much more credibility to have provided that detail.

"Both the Club and our new auditors are confident this can be resolved swiftly and we hope our submission will be made next month at which point the embargo will be lifted."

I understand not wanting to box themselves in on a timeframe for resolution, but giving themselves room to change auditors again if there is an issue and still use the statement as a precise truth is something we have seen the ownership group employ multiple times now.

[Vegas Claret]

from everything we have seen off the field from the ownership group, do you really think there is no need to not take this at face value

“We believe transparency in these matters is paramount and we want to explain why this has happened.”

just asking for friend who fell off his chair when he saw that

nope, I've no issue with the ownership

[Casper2]

the club has said it will be resolved next month so unless folk are picking and choosing what they want to believe then surely we take the clubs statement as factual at this point

Why has it happened in the first place ?

[PremierLeagueClass]

Whatever the reason, it’s not a good look for the club and isn’t going to paint us in a favourable light.

[Chester Perry]

nope, I've no issue with the ownership

That has been very obvious for a long time, but not what I asked

[taio]

Fans want club to improve their communication, in this instance the club has done that.
The news is out there for people to see, so the club released the statement.

Is it such a shock to your system that they've been open about it?

Is anyone criticising that they've communicated it? I think people are raising legitimate concerns about what has happened, not that they've chosen to communicate it. They probably had to anyway because the EFL may release their own information imminently.

[RVclaret]

Whatever the reason, it’s not a good look for the club and isn’t going to paint us in a favourable light.

It’ll be forgotten about pretty quickly once it’s been (hopefully) resolved. I’ve barely heard Sheffield United’s mentioned since it broke. And theirs was for not actually paying their debts!

[Vegas Claret]

That has been very obvious for a long time, but not what I asked

it is what you asked

[Rileybobs]

Since several news outlets (BBC, The Guardian) have articles about this on their website it would sound alarm bells for many if BFC remained silent on the story.

Why do the BBC and the Guardian have articles about something like this on their website if it’s not a big deal?

[forzagranata]

And what is the penalty for that misconduct.

Under what basis would a lawyer have to make a claim against us for?

There are 2 outcomes that can come from this.

1 - We provide audited accounts and the EFL will be satisfied and lift the embargo.
2 - We provide audited accounts and the EFL are not satisfied
3 - We fail to provide audited accounts.

2 and 3 would likely result in the EFL sending external auditors in most likely.

There is nothing in the misconduct that states we have done anything to cause harm to other clubs or anyone else so the fact that you believe there are lawyers and clubs out there getting all excited about this is just pure fantasy.

Rightly or wrongly, usually privately, other clubs often apply pressure to the PL/ EFL over disciplinary and FFP matters. As Manchester City could testify.

[NewClaret]

Won’t quote as it was a long post but good point by CP re: not naming the auditors.

[Rileybobs]

Fans want club to improve their communication, in this instance the club has done that.
The news is out there for people to see, so the club released the statement.

Is it such a shock to your system that they've been open about it?

No, I was making the point that if it wasn’t a big deal then the club wouldn’t have felt the need to release a statement.

And if you think that they’ve done so to ‘improve their communication’ then you’re being naive in the extreme.

[forzagranata]

Won’t quote as it was a long post but good point by CP re: not naming the auditors.

To be fair maybe the social media team are preparing one of their famous announcement videos.

[NewClaret]

To be fair maybe the social media team are preparing one of their famous announcement videos.

[Devils_Advocate]

To be fair maybe the social media team are preparing one of their famous announcement videos.

and right on cue here it is.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV45TZ4EpeU&t=2s

[Ptangyangkipperbang]

I can't say I'm happy about the situation and I've been reading this thread longer than I should.But I've come to the conclusion that with things going so well on the pitch one or two of the posters are now absolutely over the moon to give them some negativity to spout.Its a throw back to three years ago I'm off here for a while and keep my sanity

[aggi]

They are a top 10 firm in name only, they are the same small firm of accountants that were bought out by Azets a few years ago. In fact they’ve shrunk headcount considerably since the takeover.

A premier league or top end championship club shouldn’t be using a small local firm like this, they absolutely don’t have the resources to provide the required services. I say this as someone with first hand experience.

The point of these things though is that they can use expertise from the other offices. The Manchester office or Leeds office for instance.

Switching auditors is fine (although the timing is obviously very questionable and raises some red flags) but the suggestions from some that we're of a size to be needing big 4 are way wide of the mark.

[aggi]

...

It is actually more interesting that the club haven't named who the new auditors are, they claim they have new ones, when were they appointed? I have seen other clubs declare the appointment of new auditors (West Brom immediately springs to mind) it would give the club much more credibility to have provided that detail.

...

I can't say this is something I find that intriguing. It's a bland enough statement, the number that are really interested in who the new auditors are (particularly given that 99% of people have only heard of the big 4) is, in reality, pretty minimal.

I don't know about West Brom announcing their new auditor but aren't they on something like their fifth in the past ten years which is pretty unusual.

[Lord Beamish]

Well, having read through this thread thus far, I’m glad to see that, if anything, it’s given some of UTC’s natural worriers something to chew on. God only knows what meagre fare they’ve had this term.

[paulatky]

They wouldn’t accept the job if they thought there was a risk of this happening.

They wouldn’t know until they had completed the audit

[elwaclaret]

Well, having read through this thread thus far, I’m glad to see that, if anything, it’s given some of UTC’s natural worriers something to chew on. God only knows what meagre fare they’ve had this term.

Surprising how quickly, so many dive for their teams trench. I agree it’s mildly concerning that it has happened.
With a visitor/investor announced, is it connected to our form meaning changes behind the scenes are happening now that otherwise would have occupied pre-season? Who knows?
They seem to be on top of it, let them prove it one way or another; before wildly speculating our doom.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Wild speculation is going to whole new levels tonight. The people who know about this stuff, many of whom are trying to reassure, are being more or less ignored.

It may be that a mistake was made by one firm or another, or by the club, which slowed things down, or it may be just administrative delays, none of which stops us enjoying our imminent title win.

Worst case scenario for me is some kind of nervousness about the club being a going concern after relegation, but surely once promotion is secured in a few weeks that renders that issue totally redundant. So there is no point speculating which of those, or other things, it is.

[Nori1958]

They have said they think it’s all ok with the content of their accounts.
They haven’t said it’s ok that they have filed their accounts late.

I never said anything about what’s in the accounts other than I am pretty definite there’s been no breach of any fair play rules.

Do you believe that it will be all signed off in a month?...if so any other dig at the owners is unjustified

[Nori1958]

Just wondering what would happen if the new auditors don't sign off the accounts

I wonder what will happen if the world ends tomorrow....neither will happen so relax don't get pulled in by all the drama queens

[Nori1958]

Wild speculation is going to whole new levels tonight. The people who know about this stuff, many of whom are trying to reassure, are being more or less ignored.

It may be that a mistake was made by one firm or another, or by the club, which slowed things down, or it may be just administrative delays, none of which stops us enjoying our imminent title win.

Worst case scenario for me is some kind of nervousness about the club being a going concern after relegation, but surely once promotion is secured in a few weeks that renders that issue totally redundant. So there is no point speculating which of those, or other things, it is.

For years people have hung on every word of Chester Perry....tonight it's like he doesn't exist

[Spike]

The Board have a duty to protect the reputation of the Club . Their inability to oversee a situation where accounts are posted on time is nothing but negligent.
We shouldn’t be having this conversation

[Chester Perry]

Wild speculation is going to whole new levels tonight. The people who know about this stuff, many of whom are trying to reassure, are being more or less ignored.

It may be that a mistake was made by one firm or another, or by the club, which slowed things down, or it may be just administrative delays, none of which stops us enjoying our imminent title win.

Worst case scenario for me is some kind of nervousness about the club being a going concern after relegation, but surely once promotion is secured in a few weeks that renders that issue totally redundant. So there is no point speculating which of those, or other things, it is.

The Premier League have more or less the same rules
https://resources.premierleague.com/pre ... _18.07.pdf
- Premier League Handbook 2022/23 Clubs Finance and Governance, Section E Clubs - Finance starting from Submission of Club Accounts E.3. on page 123 (66 pdf).

the EFL rules were aligned to Premier League rules so that they would apply across promotion to or relegation from the Premier League. This alignment came about after the farce of QPR, Leicester and Bournemouth not having EFL sanctions applied by the Premier League.

-

[Nori1958]

The Board have a duty to protect the reputation of the Club . Their inability to oversee a situation where accounts are posted on time is nothing but negligent.
We shouldn’t be having this conversation

Or it could be the fault of the auditors.. but guess that doesn't fit the agenda

[claretburns]

Horse botherers reckon a team who have any financial "issues" need demoting out of the EFL and sent to the National League at best.

Weren't they under an embargo last year?

[Nonayforever]

Or it could be the fault of the auditors.. but guess that doesn't fit the agenda

Nori - it's pretty clear that you don't understand the seriousness of the financial situation.