ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 11591
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4726 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu May 04, 2023 12:11 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 12:10 pm
STAND BY YOUR BEDS THE ACCOUNTS HAVE BEEN FILED!!
Let's hope those who have been desperate for this day aren't left feeling disappointed when they hurriedly rush through them

arise_sir_charge
Posts: 3235
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:36 am
Been Liked: 1776 times
Has Liked: 41 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by arise_sir_charge » Thu May 04, 2023 12:12 pm

Document is being processed and will be available in 10 days😂

Now we can listen to wild conspiracy theories about why that may be!
This user liked this post: RVclaret

aggi
Posts: 9653
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2319 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Thu May 04, 2023 12:16 pm

Image
These 2 users liked this post: Stproc Paul Waine

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 11591
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4726 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu May 04, 2023 12:20 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 12:12 pm
Document is being processed and will be available in 10 days😂

Now we can listen to wild conspiracy theories about why that may be!
:D :D it is like the club, the owners and companies house are enjoying themselves

aggi
Posts: 9653
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2319 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Thu May 04, 2023 12:21 pm

Admittedly Calder Vale Holdings, etc still haven't been filed.

jedi_master
Posts: 8240
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:33 pm
Been Liked: 4125 times
Has Liked: 1134 times
Location: Chesterfield

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by jedi_master » Thu May 04, 2023 12:25 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 12:10 pm
STAND BY YOUR BEDS THE ACCOUNTS HAVE BEEN FILED!!
Fantastic news - even if there is a load of analysis to be completed and no doubt questions/concerns within, the bottom line as far as I can take it is that we're back in the Premier League, seemingly MSD-loan free, and will shortly have no transfer embargo. Anything else above and beyond those facts is largely superfluous to the current capability of our club to operate in the short and medium term at it's maximum.
These 2 users liked this post: arise_sir_charge bfcjg

claretandy
Posts: 4751
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 953 times
Has Liked: 238 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by claretandy » Thu May 04, 2023 12:53 pm

BDO are the new auditor's apparently.

bfcjg
Posts: 14846
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:17 pm
Been Liked: 5696 times
Has Liked: 8364 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by bfcjg » Thu May 04, 2023 12:58 pm

borowitz-white-smoke-465.jpg
borowitz-white-smoke-465.jpg (19.84 KiB) Viewed 4021 times

Big Vinny K
Posts: 3685
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:57 pm
Been Liked: 1460 times
Has Liked: 358 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Big Vinny K » Thu May 04, 2023 1:15 pm

jedi_master wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 12:25 pm
Fantastic news - even if there is a load of analysis to be completed and no doubt questions/concerns within, the bottom line as far as I can take it is that we're back in the Premier League, seemingly MSD-loan free, and will shortly have no transfer embargo. Anything else above and beyond those facts is largely superfluous to the current capability of our club to operate in the short and medium term at it's maximum.
Yep should be a fair bit of positive news in the accounts I think but we need to bear in mind that the accounts we have been eagerly awaiting are already quite outdated with what’s happened in the last 12 months.
That’s the problem with audited accounts - they are way too historical !!

If only we could see the monthly management accounts !

ClaretTony
Posts: 76640
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 37346 times
Has Liked: 5703 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Thu May 04, 2023 1:41 pm

Big Vinny K wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 1:15 pm
Yep should be a fair bit of positive news in the accounts I think but we need to bear in mind that the accounts we have been eagerly awaiting are already quite outdated with what’s happened in the last 12 months.
That’s the problem with audited accounts - they are way too historical !!

If only we could see the monthly management accounts !
Up to ten years ago, the accounts were published around November ahead of a December AGM, so six months earlier than these.

OffTheBar
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 7:21 am
Been Liked: 55 times
Has Liked: 13 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by OffTheBar » Thu May 04, 2023 1:45 pm

Big Vinny K wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 1:15 pm
Yep should be a fair bit of positive news in the accounts I think but we need to bear in mind that the accounts we have been eagerly awaiting are already quite outdated with what’s happened in the last 12 months.
That’s the problem with audited accounts - they are way too historical !!

If only we could see the monthly management accounts !
Where’s the sweepstake on the total profit? :D Should be a decent number I think.

kentonclaret
Posts: 7949
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:06 pm
Been Liked: 1196 times
Has Liked: 245 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by kentonclaret » Thu May 04, 2023 4:01 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 1:41 pm
Up to ten years ago, the accounts were published around November ahead of a December AGM, so six months earlier than these.
One suspects that they are a lot more complex now than they were back then :(

NewClaret
Posts: 17423
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3926 times
Has Liked: 4892 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Thu May 04, 2023 4:13 pm

Have to say, it’s a massive relief to me that these have been filed whatever they contain. Looking forward to all the insight they might provide, but ultimately don’t really care; we’re back to being a PL club, hopefully debt free or with substantially reduced debt, and now we’re playing good football with an exciting young manager/team.

Exciting times.
This user liked this post: Paul Waine

dsr
Posts: 16197
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4855 times
Has Liked: 2580 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by dsr » Thu May 04, 2023 4:13 pm

kentonclaret wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 4:01 pm
One suspects that they are a lot more complex now than they were back then :(
All that does is put the price up, not delay the figures. PLCs have to file their accounts within 6 months.

arise_sir_charge
Posts: 3235
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:36 am
Been Liked: 1776 times
Has Liked: 41 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by arise_sir_charge » Thu May 04, 2023 4:20 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 4:13 pm
Have to say, it’s a massive relief to me that these have been filed whatever they contain. Looking forward to all the insight they might provide, but ultimately don’t really care; we’re back to being a PL club, hopefully debt free or with substantially reduced debt, and now we’re playing good football with an exciting young manager/team.

Exciting times.
Despite the discussion on here, they were never not going to be filed.

It’s what they contain that’s the important bit.

Paul Waine
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2411 times
Has Liked: 3315 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Thu May 04, 2023 4:28 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 4:13 pm
All that does is put the price up, not delay the figures. PLCs have to file their accounts within 6 months.
Plc are required earlier because their shares are traded on stock exchanges.

dsr
Posts: 16197
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4855 times
Has Liked: 2580 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by dsr » Thu May 04, 2023 5:31 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 4:28 pm
Plc are required earlier because their shares are traded on stock exchanges.
The point being that BFC's accounts being more complex than they were 10 years ago, is not an excuse for late filing. We'll be back to short PL filing deadlines next year, because I believe they want them in December.

ClaretPete001
Posts: 3156
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:39 am
Been Liked: 534 times
Has Liked: 187 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu May 04, 2023 5:40 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 5:31 pm
The point being that BFC's accounts being more complex than they were 10 years ago, is not an excuse for late filing. We'll be back to short PL filing deadlines next year, because I believe they want them in December.
Indeed but the the two companies directly above BFC Holdings in CPs charts have not filed from Oct 21.

It's not as though we are sitting here making this stuff up to be negative.

You sit here read the forum and see the glaring omissions and think ......why's that then.

NewClaret
Posts: 17423
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3926 times
Has Liked: 4892 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Thu May 04, 2023 6:13 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 4:20 pm
Despite the discussion on here, they were never not going to be filed.

It’s what they contain that’s the important bit.
They were always going to get filed eventually, but it was hard not to get concerned there was something awry with the change of auditors late in the day, etc that could’ve substantially delayed them and created uncertainty/bad media coverage for a while, so I’m glad it’s done and dusted.

Disagree on the importance of what they contain given they’re so backward looking now and where we are as a club - back in the Prem, debt gone or substantially reduced, attracting new investors, playing great football, hopefully some decent ground/catering improvements to look forward to.

I’ll leave the accountants to pour over the numbers and obviously I hope they’re good, but my broader point is that I’m more interested in the general direction of the club over a balance sheet and P&L; which is looking up and forward as far as I can see, so the numbers are not important to me.

I felt the same when our balance sheet (cash balances) were ever growing and some took loads of comfort from that and how “well run” we were while the team was in obvious decline. For me, a football club is about what happens on the green stuff on a Saturday afternoon & the rest is a bit immaterial assuming we’re not in any immediate danger… and I don’t think we are now.

Nori1958
Posts: 3833
Joined: Tue May 03, 2022 10:45 am
Been Liked: 1112 times
Has Liked: 347 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu May 04, 2023 6:19 pm

I wonder if this thread would have been as quiet today had nothing been filed?

arise_sir_charge
Posts: 3235
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:36 am
Been Liked: 1776 times
Has Liked: 41 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by arise_sir_charge » Thu May 04, 2023 7:18 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 6:19 pm
I wonder if this thread would have been as quiet today had nothing been filed?
Quite.

Also I think this pours cold water on the “embargo’s are lifted immediately” suggestion unless of course we’ve done the legal bit but not bothered with the EFL bit.

NewClaret
Posts: 17423
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3926 times
Has Liked: 4892 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Thu May 04, 2023 7:33 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 6:19 pm
I wonder if this thread would have been as quiet today had nothing been filed?
Assume CP is resting ahead of the docs becoming available!

Paul Waine
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2411 times
Has Liked: 3315 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Thu May 04, 2023 7:46 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 5:31 pm
The point being that BFC's accounts being more complex than they were 10 years ago, is not an excuse for late filing. We'll be back to short PL filing deadlines next year, because I believe they want them in December.
No accounts are that complex that they require more than a few weeks to prepare. Similarly, auditors can be prepared to complete their audit as required according to any accounts publication deadline.

The thing with all private company accounts is that it is "good practice" to delay publication until the last possible deadline. Why put something into the public domain before you have to do. Any bodies, bankers and other lenders, for example, and bodies that govern the sector the entity operates in, such as Premier League or EFL for football clubs, can always require earlier disclosure deadlines, but always subject to the appropriate confidentiality requirements.

Obviously, there have been developments for BFC and ownership group since the previous set of accounts were published. One way or another that's why most of us a keen to see what is disclosed in the latest set of accounts, especially in the "events after the balance sheet date" note.

Paul Waine
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2411 times
Has Liked: 3315 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Thu May 04, 2023 7:53 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 7:18 pm
Quite.

Also I think this pours cold water on the “embargo’s are lifted immediately” suggestion unless of course we’ve done the legal bit but not bothered with the EFL bit.
I forget whether I've already posted that given it was bank holiday on Monday and another bank holiday next Monday we shouldn't be concerned if it takes the EFL a few days before they formally lift the embargo. There's no reason why either the person at EFL whose job it is to confirm accounts have been properly received, or the senior person whose job it is to formally lift the embargo has been away on holiday for 10 days or so. And, why not , the transfer window isn't open force few more weeks.

Chester Perry
Posts: 20133
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3296 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 04, 2023 8:05 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 7:18 pm
Quite.

Also I think this pours cold water on the “embargo’s are lifted immediately” suggestion unless of course we’ve done the legal bit but not bothered with the EFL bit.
aggi wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 12:21 pm
Admittedly Calder Vale Holdings, etc still haven't been filed.
16.2 Each Club shall submit a copy of its Annual Accounts (as defined in Regulation 16.3 below) to The League, but in any event:

16.2.1 by no later than 1 March following the end of the financial year to which those Annual Accounts relate (in the case of a Championship Club); or

16.2.2 by no later than the date on which the Club is required to file its accounts at Companies House (in case of League One and League Two Clubs).

16.3 Each Club shall submit their Annual Accounts (and those of any Group of which it is a member) to the registrar of companies (appointed in accordance with section 1060 of the 2006 Act) in accordance with the time limits prescribed by the 2006 Act.

ClaretPete001
Posts: 3156
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:39 am
Been Liked: 534 times
Has Liked: 187 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu May 04, 2023 8:45 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 8:05 pm
16.3 Each Club shall submit their Annual Accounts (and those of any Group of which it is a member) to the registrar of companies (appointed in accordance with section 1060 of the 2006 Act) in accordance with the time limits prescribed by the 2006 Act.
As I say, you sit here see the glaring omissions and think why's that then because as stupid as the EFL are you can't imagine that they would accept accounts and completely ignore the £112 million in inter-company loans to a parent company whose Oct 21 accounts have not been filed at companies house....!

So, I guess we'll see them submitted soon, and we'll all collectively say - what was all that about then and no doubt move on to conversation about whether VK will finally adopt his much vaunted 4-2-2-2 in the PL.

It's a bit like when you see someone wandering around Tesco in their pyjamas and you think.....why? And then get back to the important stuff like why have they moved the white Warbies from one aisle to the other just when you got used to it being where it was....!

NewClaret
Posts: 17423
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3926 times
Has Liked: 4892 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Thu May 04, 2023 8:52 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 8:45 pm
It's a bit like when you see someone wandering around Tesco in their pyjamas and you think.....why? And then get back to the important stuff like why have they moved the white Warbies from one aisle to the other just when you got used to it being where it was....!
:lol: :lol:

Don’t you just hate it when that happens? I hate it when people wear their pyjamas in Tesco.

Vegas Claret
Posts: 34427
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 12536 times
Has Liked: 6262 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu May 04, 2023 8:52 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 8:45 pm
As I say, you sit here see the glaring omissions and think why's that then because as stupid as the EFL are you can't imagine that they would accept accounts and completely ignore the £112 million in inter-company loans to a parent company whose Oct 21 accounts have not been filed at companies house....!

So, I guess we'll see them submitted soon, and we'll all collectively say - what was all that about then and no doubt move on to conversation about whether VK will finally adopt his much vaunted 4-2-2-2 in the PL.

It's a bit like when you see someone wandering around Tesco in their pyjamas and you think.....why? And then get back to the important stuff like why have they moved the white Warbies from one aisle to the other just when you got used to it being where it was....!
so WHY have we done this the way we have then ? I have no idea so I'm genuinely asking

Nori1958
Posts: 3833
Joined: Tue May 03, 2022 10:45 am
Been Liked: 1112 times
Has Liked: 347 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu May 04, 2023 8:56 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 8:52 pm
so WHY have we done this the way we have then ? I have no idea so I'm genuinely asking
Nobody here will know
They'll guess why, but they won't know, and I think we just have to accept that's how it is, whether we like it or not...

Chester Perry
Posts: 20133
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3296 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 04, 2023 9:37 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 6:19 pm
I wonder if this thread would have been as quiet today had nothing been filed?
Given that everyone else here appears to assume you are talking about me - I wouldn't have been so presumptuous
NewClaret wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 7:33 pm
Assume CP is resting ahead of the docs becoming available!
I have been using my spare time today to wade through and try and get to grips with more of the documents related to the Jersey based entities within the the group that contains our club

What is clearly evident in these documents is that ALK Capital LLC has taken every legal course to protect its position as managing partner. Paul Waine has reminded us on a few occasions that both ALK Capital LLC and Velocity Sports Partners LLC are Partnerships, that means shares are not issued within these entities. When we look at the Jersey based entities we see clearly that there are shares issued,

In the case of Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd there are 3 classes of shares - Management, Class A and Class B - all have the same nominal value of £1. As of April 4 2023 only 1 share in VSFL had been issued (to ALK Capital LLC) and on that date it was made into a Management Share. Management Shares have votes per share the others 1 vote for each share

In the case of Velocity Sports limited there are 4 classes of shares - Management, Class A, Class B and Incentive again all have the same nominal value of £1. As of December 24 2020 there were just 3 shares issued out of an allotment of 1m

- ALK Capital LLC had 1 Management Share
- Velocity Sports Partners LLC had 1 Class A Share
- Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd had 1 Class B Share

It seems from my as yet admittedly vague understanding that is these shares that will be allotted to investors as they come on board, given some of the details laid out in the articles. It is noticeable that in general it is assumed that Management Shares will have 100 votes per share and for the most part the other shares will hold no voting rights unless specifically detailed in the articles and then only 1 vote per share.

Other things to note about VSL shares is that Management Shares must always make up at least 25% of the issued shares and that all other shareholders must agree to the anticipated likelihood that their shareholding will be diluted at some future point as others join the group. What is not yet clear to me is, if issues of Management shares to maintain the total issued proportion have to be paid for by the holders.

On the basis of this I have once again had another tweak of the group structure chart as I currently understand it

Assumed ALK Structure May 4 2023.png
Assumed ALK Structure May 4 2023.png (56.54 KiB) Viewed 2594 times

aggi
Posts: 9653
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2319 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Thu May 04, 2023 9:38 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 8:52 pm
so WHY have we done this the way we have then ? I have no idea so I'm genuinely asking
Nobody knows. I can take guesses based on when this has happened on jobs I've been involved in (one client was so far behind that I had to complete 3 separate years of accounts in four months to catch up) and what commonly holds stuff up (source of funds, identity verification, evidencing controlling interests, being massively disorganised, etc) but who knows whether that is relevant to the case here.
This user liked this post: Vegas Claret

Carwin261
Posts: 1618
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:15 pm
Been Liked: 278 times
Has Liked: 172 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Carwin261 » Thu May 04, 2023 9:46 pm

Chester my mate is 74 ,an accountant ,and still working ,he’s obsessed with figures ,and stats ,do you think you may becoming obsessed with this,I presume you do watch the Clarets ,It worries me what your going to do after Monday.

claretspice
Posts: 6382
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 3160 times
Has Liked: 148 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by claretspice » Thu May 04, 2023 9:49 pm

Leaving aside the complexity of the holding structure, the fact that even after the accounts of the football club itself have been submitted, the already (well) overdue accounts of its two UK parents remain unsubmitted, does strike me as odd. The fact they haven't caught up alongside the club accounts does unsettle me slightly and if that persists for much longer it will become a bit alarming I think. It certainly suggests the 'minor admin error, nothing to see here' line is stretching it rather.

On a strict reading of rule 16.3 we may have been lucky not to be under an Embargo in January given the delays in filing immediate holding company accounts per the companies act.

Chester Perry
Posts: 20133
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3296 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 04, 2023 9:50 pm

Carwin261 wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 9:46 pm
Chester my mate is 74 ,an accountant ,and still working ,he’s obsessed with figures ,and stats ,do you think you may becoming obsessed with this,I presume you do watch the Clarets ,It worries me what your going to do after Monday.
I will be fine - and though I shouldn't have to repeat myself (people do seem to have an incredible number of incorrect assumptions about what I do and think) - I have thoroughly enjoyed this incredible and magnificent season
This user liked this post: Carwin261

arise_sir_charge
Posts: 3235
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:36 am
Been Liked: 1776 times
Has Liked: 41 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by arise_sir_charge » Thu May 04, 2023 9:59 pm

But we aren’t under an embargo for breaching rule 16.3.
This user liked this post: Paul Waine

Carwin261
Posts: 1618
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:15 pm
Been Liked: 278 times
Has Liked: 172 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Carwin261 » Thu May 04, 2023 10:04 pm

claretspice wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 9:49 pm
Leaving aside the complexity of the holding structure, the fact that even after the accounts of the football club itself have been submitted, the already (well) overdue accounts of its two UK parents remain unsubmitted, does strike me as odd. The fact they haven't caught up alongside the club accounts does unsettle me slightly and if that persists for much longer it will become a bit alarming I think. It certainly suggests the 'minor admin error, nothing to see here' line is stretching it rather.

On a strict reading of rule 16.3 we may have been lucky not to be under an Embargo in January given the delays in filing immediate holding company accounts per the companies act.
Bloody Hell ,don’t open up another can of worms.

DCWat
Posts: 9934
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:04 am
Been Liked: 4471 times
Has Liked: 3882 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by DCWat » Thu May 04, 2023 10:06 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 9:50 pm
I will be fine - and though I shouldn't have to repeat myself (people do seem to have an incredible number of incorrect assumptions about what I do and think) - I have thoroughly enjoyed this incredible and magnificent season
I look forward to the day that you don’t feel a need to contribute to the ALK thread, instead able to focus on the MMT.

Something tells me, you’ll need to be at this one for a while yet!!

Paul Waine
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2411 times
Has Liked: 3315 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Thu May 04, 2023 10:31 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 9:37 pm
Given that everyone else here appears to assume you are talking about me - I wouldn't have been so presumptuous



I have been using my spare time today to wade through and try and get to grips with more of the documents related to the Jersey based entities within the the group that contains our club

What is clearly evident in these documents is that ALK Capital LLC has taken every legal course to protect its position as managing partner. Paul Waine has reminded us on a few occasions that both ALK Capital LLC and Velocity Sports Partners LLC are Partnerships, that means shares are not issued within these entities. When we look at the Jersey based entities we see clearly that there are shares issued,

In the case of Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd there are 3 classes of shares - Management, Class A and Class B - all have the same nominal value of £1. As of April 4 2023 only 1 share in VSFL had been issued (to ALK Capital LLC) and on that date it was made into a Management Share. Management Shares have votes per share the others 1 vote for each share

In the case of Velocity Sports limited there are 4 classes of shares - Management, Class A, Class B and Incentive again all have the same nominal value of £1. As of December 24 2020 there were just 3 shares issued out of an allotment of 1m

- ALK Capital LLC had 1 Management Share
- Velocity Sports Partners LLC had 1 Class A Share
- Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd had 1 Class B Share

It seems from my as yet admittedly vague understanding that is these shares that will be allotted to investors as they come on board, given some of the details laid out in the articles. It is noticeable that in general it is assumed that Management Shares will have 100 votes per share and for the most part the other shares will hold no voting rights unless specifically detailed in the articles and then only 1 vote per share.

Other things to note about VSL shares is that Management Shares must always make up at least 25% of the issued shares and that all other shareholders must agree to the anticipated likelihood that their shareholding will be diluted at some future point as others join the group. What is not yet clear to me is, if issues of Management shares to maintain the total issued proportion have to be paid for by the holders.

On the basis of this I have once again had another tweak of the group structure chart as I currently understand it


Assumed ALK Structure May 4 2023.png
Hi CP, as always I'm both personally humbled and impressed with your research and due diligence. Well done in finding out how to access (without need to pay) Jersey financial filings.

I've not seen/read the docs you are referencing. However, I would expect that it's pretty standard stuff that management shares hold a preferred status vis-a-vis other shares. It's exactly what would be expected for the management shares. I'm sure you will remember that ALK (US) is the general manager in the relationship with VSL (US). It makes sense, therefore, that as other corporate entities are built into the business structure that the same "management structure" is preserved and ensured and that there can be no possibilities of this structure being frustrated by voting relationships anywhere in the structure.

I claim no expertise in these areas. I'm neither a US corporate lawyer nor a US tax lawyer, ditto with respect to Jersey. But, I get the principles of the governance intentions and the taxation intentions. I also imagine that these structures may not be established once and for all time, but rather require to be re-vistef from time to time, possibly more frequently in the early stages than layer in the corporate ventures life.

Just my thoughts and speculations.

Some day soon we will have one or more financial reports to take a look at.

Chester Perry
Posts: 20133
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3296 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 04, 2023 10:47 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 4:20 pm
Despite the discussion on here, they were never not going to be filed.

It’s what they contain that’s the important bit.
Concur

so given the general presumption that I like to speculate here's my punt on the contents

Signed off on April 28 2023 - like last year
The auditors pass the accounts without issue

Turnover circa £124.5m
Operating Profit before player trading circa £10.5m
Profit before tax circa £41m

Match day receipts will be at record levels (given the price increases) circa £7m
Commercial Income will be disappointingly low at less than £8m
Catering and Retail combined will bring in around the usual £4m

Staff Costs will surprise circa £92m

Related company loans will increase to circa £70m

Cash in had around £13m

The enforced repayment to MSD resulting from relegation was £20m all subsequent repayments were optional. That £20m will in some way be removed from the outstanding balance CVHL owe BFC Holdings.

If we hadn't have been promoted this season and not cleared the MSD debt in November another year in the Championship would have seen further enforced repayment more severe than that of the previous year

The final debt clearance (32.8m) paid off in November was facilitated by a new loan at a substantially lower rate of interest than the MSD one - possibly at a fixed rate (bonkers given no new Charges I know but there you go) - The cost of that November clearance will be close to £40m when penalties have been added - it still makes things cheaper overall with as much as £2.6m saved on interest payments each year as a result

Management fees of in excess of £1m will be paid to a group entity, this means directors will not have been paid salaries

There may have been a separate financing arrangement from ALK Capital LLC to help cashflow during the season.

Chester Perry
Posts: 20133
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3296 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 04, 2023 10:53 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 10:31 pm
Hi CP, as always I'm both personally humbled and impressed with your research and due diligence. Well done in finding out how to access (without need to pay) Jersey financial filings.

I've not seen/read the docs you are referencing. However, I would expect that it's pretty standard stuff that management shares hold a preferred status vis-a-vis other shares. It's exactly what would be expected for the management shares. I'm sure you will remember that ALK (US) is the general manager in the relationship with VSL (US). It makes sense, therefore, that as other corporate entities are built into the business structure that the same "management structure" is preserved and ensured and that there can be no possibilities of this structure being frustrated by voting relationships anywhere in the structure.

I claim no expertise in these areas. I'm neither a US corporate lawyer nor a US tax lawyer, ditto with respect to Jersey. But, I get the principles of the governance intentions and the taxation intentions. I also imagine that these structures may not be established once and for all time, but rather require to be re-vistef from time to time, possibly more frequently in the early stages than layer in the corporate ventures life.

Just my thoughts and speculations.

Some day soon we will have one or more financial reports to take a look at.
Hi Paul

It all looked like Boilerplate to me for the most part - and while British sensibilities may baulk at the way ALK have arranged for the shares to be, it all comes across as very standard practice in the US from what I can tell. Certainly nothing untoward from a legal (or even general practice) perspective from what I can tell. It is not an arrangement I would investing in, but it is not one I could afford either.

Chester Perry
Posts: 20133
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3296 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 04, 2023 10:57 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 9:59 pm
But we aren’t under an embargo for breaching rule 16.3.
Indeed, there is a reason for that - 16.3 is a description of what is expected in meeting 16.2. which we are under embargo for

Chester Perry
Posts: 20133
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3296 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 04, 2023 11:04 pm

Paul I have e-mailed you all the docs
This user liked this post: Paul Waine

Father Jack
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:52 pm
Been Liked: 152 times
Has Liked: 23 times
Location: Leyland

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Father Jack » Thu May 04, 2023 11:16 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 9:37 pm
Given that everyone else here appears to assume you are talking about me - I wouldn't have been so presumptuous



I have been using my spare time today to wade through and try and get to grips with more of the documents related to the Jersey based entities within the the group that contains our club

What is clearly evident in these documents is that ALK Capital LLC has taken every legal course to protect its position as managing partner. Paul Waine has reminded us on a few occasions that both ALK Capital LLC and Velocity Sports Partners LLC are Partnerships, that means shares are not issued within these entities. When we look at the Jersey based entities we see clearly that there are shares issued,

In the case of Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd there are 3 classes of shares - Management, Class A and Class B - all have the same nominal value of £1. As of April 4 2023 only 1 share in VSFL had been issued (to ALK Capital LLC) and on that date it was made into a Management Share. Management Shares have votes per share the others 1 vote for each share

In the case of Velocity Sports limited there are 4 classes of shares - Management, Class A, Class B and Incentive again all have the same nominal value of £1. As of December 24 2020 there were just 3 shares issued out of an allotment of 1m

- ALK Capital LLC had 1 Management Share
- Velocity Sports Partners LLC had 1 Class A Share
- Velocity Sports Feeder Ltd had 1 Class B Share

It seems from my as yet admittedly vague understanding that is these shares that will be allotted to investors as they come on board, given some of the details laid out in the articles. It is noticeable that in general it is assumed that Management Shares will have 100 votes per share and for the most part the other shares will hold no voting rights unless specifically detailed in the articles and then only 1 vote per share.

Other things to note about VSL shares is that Management Shares must always make up at least 25% of the issued shares and that all other shareholders must agree to the anticipated likelihood that their shareholding will be diluted at some future point as others join the group. What is not yet clear to me is, if issues of Management shares to maintain the total issued proportion have to be paid for by the holders.

On the basis of this I have once again had another tweak of the group structure chart as I currently understand it


Assumed ALK Structure May 4 2023.png
Chester - where does Dave Checketts fit into the ownership structure of ALK?
If I remember he was leading the Mormon mission in London at some stage but then thought he was a bought member of ALK?
I saw him on Pace’s instagram on a picture with Alan in which he was wearing a Burnley scarf. It was an old post but reminded me that he must be involved somewhere.

Chester Perry
Posts: 20133
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3296 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu May 04, 2023 11:22 pm

Father Jack wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 11:16 pm
Chester - where does Dave Checketts fit into the ownership structure of ALK?
If I remember he was leading the Mormon mission in London at some stage but then thought he was a bought member of ALK?
I saw him on Pace’s instagram on a picture with Alan in which he was wearing a Burnley scarf. It was an old post but reminded me that he must be involved somewhere.
I have him in other Investors along with Antonio Parra, it is unclear if they are investors in ALK Capital LLC or Velocity Sports Partners LLC (maybe even both) I would be putting the likes of Malcolm Jenkins and the Watts family as investing in Velocity Sports Partners LLC - though Jenkins did say he was investing in ALK Capital.

Like Paul Waine, I am assuming that there are other investors (probably at the minor investor level) that we do not know about - if there aren't now I expect there soon will be.

NewClaret
Posts: 17423
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3926 times
Has Liked: 4892 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Thu May 04, 2023 11:34 pm

CP,

Absolute kudos to you for all this research! You’re something else. I knew something was keeping you quiet today ;)

Also respect for putting your predictions in writing. It’ll be interesting to see how they stack up when the documents are released.
Last edited by NewClaret on Thu May 04, 2023 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Father Jack
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:52 pm
Been Liked: 152 times
Has Liked: 23 times
Location: Leyland

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Father Jack » Thu May 04, 2023 11:34 pm

Went back for another look.
Answered my own question but it looks like your structure chart now needs another update!
Attachments
85256203-8CE9-45D8-909F-386C934C2F8B.jpeg
85256203-8CE9-45D8-909F-386C934C2F8B.jpeg (107.8 KiB) Viewed 2164 times

Chester Perry
Posts: 20133
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3296 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 05, 2023 12:01 am

Father Jack wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 11:34 pm
Went back for another look.
Answered my own question but it looks like your structure chart now needs another update!
thanks for that - I really should pay attention to what the Chairman tweets every now and again

As I understand it the named individuals are founding partners in ALK and Checketts came in as the deal for the club took shape - it is probable that Antonio Parra is in a similar situation. As always I could be wrong.

Chester Perry
Posts: 20133
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3296 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Fri May 05, 2023 12:21 am

DCWat wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 10:06 pm
I look forward to the day that you don’t feel a need to contribute to the ALK thread, instead able to focus on the MMT.

Something tells me, you’ll need to be at this one for a while yet!!
I actually think we are now getting close to a situation where we are going to know all we can know - I don't envisage these investigations going on for much longer as there is virtually nothing left to find that would be in the public domain - at least nothing I can think of.

We are also getting to a stage where the financials should be be stabilising - particularly in regards to none football
related outflows - just the final stage payment left and the option on the ringfenced shares. I still wouldn't be surprised if the financial lever of factoring of future tv revenues occurred, but all the accountants here will tell you that is a reasonable thing to do.

I know of possibilities for a few things that are going on in the background (that I am unable to talk about)- but from the clubs perspective the day-to-day impact of financing the takeover is now firmly diminishing.
This user liked this post: DCWat

RVclaret
Posts: 16207
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:30 am
Been Liked: 4469 times
Has Liked: 3009 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by RVclaret » Fri May 05, 2023 8:19 am

Accounts available to view now.

Milltown1882
Posts: 3475
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:47 pm
Been Liked: 1253 times
Has Liked: 902 times

Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Milltown1882 » Fri May 05, 2023 8:20 am


Post Reply